It does make me appreciate the Dress Sphere system more in retrospect, for just going full tilt.
Forespoken Demo Impressions - Forget it
- Thread starter CriticalGaming
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Or playing dress up hostess club girl in Yakuza games. Doll them up and send them out to make that money.
Yeah, it's a real shame the game has so many problems when it seems to actually be doing so much right.
It's one of those games that is "almost" decent, but stumbles in nearly every way. Matt McMuscles should do a "Wa Happun?" on this game.
That’s a fair point. I mean if I had Buffy’s job, the word fuck would be a comma in my speech pattern.
You know... now that I think about it. Fey has a LOT of similarities with Ratchet as he was in Ratchet and Clank. So why is it that Ratchet works but Fey doesn't?
So let's think about this.
1. R&C has a MUCH lighter tone
2. Forspoken has a more realistic style
3. Cutscenes are the only place you get dialogue in R&C
4. In R&C you get right into the gameplay really quick, so you don't have as much time to soak in when Ratchet is being a git
5. Other characters interact with Clank who's also the moral compass and straight man of the game.
6. R&C is more self-aware
7. Ratchet is just kind of a guy minding his own business when everything goes out of wack, so his reluctance to be a hero is more understandable.
8. I dunno, this is getting too long.
So let's think about this.
1. R&C has a MUCH lighter tone
2. Forspoken has a more realistic style
3. Cutscenes are the only place you get dialogue in R&C
4. In R&C you get right into the gameplay really quick, so you don't have as much time to soak in when Ratchet is being a git
5. Other characters interact with Clank who's also the moral compass and straight man of the game.
6. R&C is more self-aware
7. Ratchet is just kind of a guy minding his own business when everything goes out of wack, so his reluctance to be a hero is more understandable.
8. I dunno, this is getting too long.
Another thing is Ratchet does get called out on his bullshit and even he realizes mid to late game what ass he's been. It all happens gradually.
How is that Fey is a worse person than Travis Touchdown when he started? Then again, even at his worse, Travis never acts means to civilians or people minding their own business. He's an assassin for Christ sake! He's top tier character development and my hot take from last year still stands. Travis Touchdown is the best developed and most consistent character in action hack n slash game!
Didn't know Ironmuse hated the main character in Control. My problem with all of Control is that the game so boring. I rather just wait for Alan Wake II.
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She has a point in that alot of writers seem to think that making their female character a ***** to everyone is the same thing as making them "strong and independent" which is absolutely not the case. All that does is make them unlikable.
And they do it because it's a self-insert power fantasy so they write the character like them, and it ironically showcases how insufferable a person the writer actually is. A perfect example is that failed "I am Starfire" show, and even more recently Velma.
Not sure if posted yet -
www.escapistmagazine.com
Imagine that…a game where the meaning of its title mirrors the confusing mess it wound up actually being. In terms of an identity, it wouldn’t be surprising if the term “forspoken” gains meme status as a joke.
What Is the Meaning of Forspoken? - The Escapist
The Square Enix action RPG Forspoken has an unusual and archaic name, so we will explain the meaning and definition of the term in depth.
www.escapistmagazine.com
Imagine that…a game where the meaning of its title mirrors the confusing mess it wound up actually being. In terms of an identity, it wouldn’t be surprising if the term “forspoken” gains meme status as a joke.
What's funny is either smaller budget TV shows or indie games are getting this right. Inside Job has Regan who is a flawed person, but she's not a complete asshole. You at least learn and understand why, but they remember to give the character humanity. Then you WayForward Studios who rarely ever fuck this up. Shantae is always a cool gal, but can make mistakes. Kyoko and Misako (more so the latter) from River City Girls can be jerks, but it's usually to people who are either bigger assholes, or are antagonizing them from the start. They both have their moments of kindness and humanity.
Progressing trough the game, they really lay on thick how much of an asshole Frey is and it's strange how many scenes there are where people beg her to help them and she just keep telling them to fuck off.
It's like Campbell said:
1. The call to adventure
2. Refuse of call
3. Do it anyway for own selfish reason
4. Another call
5. Refuse the call again, insult the person involved
6. Still kinda get dragged into it by convoluted logic and own stupidity
7. Yet more call to adventure
8. Meet by more refuse, claim not their problem despite being literally only person who can answer the call
...
It's like Campbell said:
1. The call to adventure
2. Refuse of call
3. Do it anyway for own selfish reason
4. Another call
5. Refuse the call again, insult the person involved
6. Still kinda get dragged into it by convoluted logic and own stupidity
7. Yet more call to adventure
8. Meet by more refuse, claim not their problem despite being literally only person who can answer the call
...
I already explained why, and it's not just flavor. The nail polish mechanic is sexist because it's a thing that near exclusively females do that is a central mechanic of the game, on top of being the only mechanic that is like this. It's not like if Frey had an idle animation where she polished her nails or messed with her hair a bit if you stood around long enough, that's fine. Nor if she would do those in a cutscene occasionally. Nor even something completely optional like dressing Frey up in particular clothing or something for a stat boost but isn't needed if the player doesn't want to engage in it, that's also fine. It's a mechanic that strongly effects the combat in the game while also barely even making sense as something that would be effecting combat.
To go into your favorite arena, it's like if in FF7 the player had to stop regularly and directly apply various pins and clips and such into Aeris' hair to make her better at casting healing magic while Tifa had to apply various lip gloss to be able to punch harder. In all cases it's a mechanic that could've been implemented in countless different ways to achieve the same result mechanically but instead chose an implementation that's incredibly sexist specifically because it's something all but exclusively female.
To put it another way, if Frey was a guy there wouldn't be a nail polish mechanic, or a hair combing mechanic, or anything like that to make them stronger. They would've used gems or magical orbs or even something both men and women can easily do, like lifting weights and so on. This nail polish mechanic is specifically designed to scream "hey look! Our protagonist is a woman!"
It's not even something that most female protagonists do, making it even more obvious that it's sexist. In fact, I can't even recall ever seeing anything with a female protagonist that has them sit around painting their nails at any point whatsoever. At the most they just... have nail polish on.
At best the nail polish mechanic a token female thing the developers put in for diversity points that only calls attention to the fact that the character is only superficially female. At worst the nail polish mechanic exists because it's sexist and thus will cause controversy, which is almost certainly what Luminous was banking on when they implemented that mechanic in that specific way. Even just putting on various bits of jewelry to get stronger wouldn't have been so obviously sexist as this nail polish mechanic.
Yes. If you're going to do something like this you really need to go all out or don't bother. FFX-2 made it clear they were going full girl power from the start and the Dress Sphere system fed into that. I can at least respect that level of commitment to a theme even if I thought the theme itself was a terrible idea.
I do not know why there is this trend of making characters particularly protagonists into assholes to everyone else and expecting the audience to like or even applaud it. Just because the villain is a homicidal maniac doesn't make the protagonist being a jackass somehow okay. In fact, a lot of the time this happens said protagonist has as a villain someone who is actually anywhere from genuinely good natured and admirable to if not a good person at least has good reasons for what they're doing.
I want protagonists I can find admirable people I can root for and aspire to be and villains I can utterly despise and want to lose again please. Unless it's a villain protagonist in which case that's another thing you want to go full tilt on. Just make them mustache twirlingly evil so we can enjoy the carnage especially if it's a video game where you are supposed to be the one committing the evil acts.
So again you fail to accurately explain why it is sexist. Other than to say the girl has a girlie mechanic in the game for no other reason than being a girl.
Nevermind the fact that straight guys have been painting their nails black for decades because teenagers somehow still think being goth is cool. Machine Gun Kelly paints his nails so your example doesnt even hold any water.
You are projecting feminine insecurities onto the game and calling them sexist. It's not. And frankly the nail thing fits the lore because all the magic seems to comes from women in the game so magic nail polish makes sense because it is an easy camouflaged way to enchance yourself as a woman and keep it secret from the world thus hiding your true power like Goku.
You are right in one sense that no male led character would have a mechanic like this, but i will say again that a girlie mechanic for the game staring a girl does not mean it is sexist.
What is sexist is your insistance that the only way a female protagonist can be respectable and complete gender equal is if her mechanics are the exact same as the boys and anything she does that the boys dont is sexism. Your logic here implies that the girls can only ever have the same gameplay mechanics as the men or else sexism.
Grow up and let the video game have a nail styling mechanic. Not everything has to be a horrible inequality.
Nevermind the fact that straight guys have been painting their nails black for decades because teenagers somehow still think being goth is cool. Machine Gun Kelly paints his nails so your example doesnt even hold any water.
You are projecting feminine insecurities onto the game and calling them sexist. It's not. And frankly the nail thing fits the lore because all the magic seems to comes from women in the game so magic nail polish makes sense because it is an easy camouflaged way to enchance yourself as a woman and keep it secret from the world thus hiding your true power like Goku.
You are right in one sense that no male led character would have a mechanic like this, but i will say again that a girlie mechanic for the game staring a girl does not mean it is sexist.
What is sexist is your insistance that the only way a female protagonist can be respectable and complete gender equal is if her mechanics are the exact same as the boys and anything she does that the boys dont is sexism. Your logic here implies that the girls can only ever have the same gameplay mechanics as the men or else sexism.
Grow up and let the video game have a nail styling mechanic. Not everything has to be a horrible inequality.
Well, I started it. Not much in the way of conclusions I can draw at this point, mainly on account of the beginning being very slow and heavy on tutorials and exposition. Just got to the first slice of open world, for what it's worth. So far... I dunno, the combat is not half bad, the movement is not half bad, I'm not disliking any of it in particular. Dodging feels kind of weird, a very obvious holdover from FF XV's inexplicable hold to dodge mechanic, and the lack of a melee attack feels a bit jarring. If anything so far I'm reminded of games like Nier or Dragon's Dogma, kinda janky action rpg's with a certain clumsy charm to them. A very similar combination of western ARPG and JRPG design conventions. Of course Nier got a sequel that, my misgivings with Yoko Taro's writing aside, serves as a pretty clear improvement on the first game and Dragon's Dogma has one in development. Mainly, I assume, because both of them are pet projects of their respective directors. I don't know how well Forspoken is selling but somehow I doubt it's gonna be afforded the same privilege.
All good will aside though, come on Square, this is not an 80€ game. Don't get me wrong, I gladly pay 20€ more if it means the people working on it get a fair wage, but take a look at the production values of a modern high budget blockbuster game like God of War Ragnarök or Elden Ring, then take a look at Forspoken, and tell me that they are in any way comparable. I mean, sorry, even if the game really grows on me, you're not gonna get away with that.
Ah, well. I actually find Frey likeable enough. She's kind of bitchy, but she's a New York street urchin who's been through some shit, I get why she's rough around the edges. She does sometimes remind me a bit of Chloe from Life is Strange. Actually, even the delivery of her voice actress is pretty similar. But I don't find her intolerable. I have more of an issue with Cuff/Vambrace. I feel his dialogue was written with the assumption that having it delivered by an englishman will automatically make it sound witty and charming, and it doesn't work. It's like listening to Ricky Gervais. Ugh.
All good will aside though, come on Square, this is not an 80€ game. Don't get me wrong, I gladly pay 20€ more if it means the people working on it get a fair wage, but take a look at the production values of a modern high budget blockbuster game like God of War Ragnarök or Elden Ring, then take a look at Forspoken, and tell me that they are in any way comparable. I mean, sorry, even if the game really grows on me, you're not gonna get away with that.
Ah, well. I actually find Frey likeable enough. She's kind of bitchy, but she's a New York street urchin who's been through some shit, I get why she's rough around the edges. She does sometimes remind me a bit of Chloe from Life is Strange. Actually, even the delivery of her voice actress is pretty similar. But I don't find her intolerable. I have more of an issue with Cuff/Vambrace. I feel his dialogue was written with the assumption that having it delivered by an englishman will automatically make it sound witty and charming, and it doesn't work. It's like listening to Ricky Gervais. Ugh.
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There is a melee magic attack - a fire sword - but it may not be unlocked right away in the game proper compared to the demo.
You get it 10 hours deep after the first major thing you do. You can get it earlier if you ignore stuff, but if you follow the game and play in the open world at all it'll be about ten hours to get it.