This might be slightly morbidly but this could be another sign of the labour shortages that China is slowly being overtaken by. The price of labour has risen sharply the last 10 years or so and its way more difficult to get anyone signing up for anything remotely looking like sweatshop operations. Apparently this is one of the long term effects of the 1 child policy they´ve had since the 70ies. Looks like they are trying to squeeze out a little more blood out of a system that is running more and more dry. So in a way this might be a positive sign for things to come although it could also mean of course that these sort of operations simply move to another low cost country. Electronics is a difficult and delicate thing to manufacture though, you sort of need a baseline of educated labour so it isnt like you could plonk down a factory in some african country ravaged by civil war.
Foxconn Reportedly Making PS4s With Forced Student Labor
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http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/our-suppliers.htmlCredossuck said:
Okay, I feel bad again.
Honestly, this sounds less like human rights violation and more like a dick company and university are being dicks in a country that literally doesn't care at best. I've heard stories of people jumping off buildings in China and no one even reacting. Not sure if it's true, but it's damn shocking.
Did someone miss the part that says that 10% of Xbox One components are being made in the same factory?Psychobabble said:
Nets, counsellors, and exorcists. Not even joking. [a href="http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/14/foxconn-chairman-has-sought-the-aid-of-an-exorcist-to-stop-sui/"]Exorcists[/a].Ed130 said:Yes it was.Khanht Cope said:
Since theres no mandarin writing on the building, I would have thought it could have been any building with Foxconn shooped in. The guy with the T-shirt fabulously lifted makes me belive its real, or at least a well thought out shoop.Ed130 said:Yes it was.Khanht Cope said:
It's every gaming device out there.hickwarrior said:
In fact, basically every major electronics device out there uses Foxconn facilities; there's really no real alternative, no one else has the kind of manufacturing capabilities to create millions upon millions of devices. Apple themselves (who are known most for Foxconn controversies and make up 40-50% of their profit) have previously said that they don't really like working with them but don't exactly have a choice. (Funnily enough, Apple are also the only ones who have actually tried to improve the situation.)
Well given that an internship outside certain specific fields is not usually completed as part of a degree in this country, and in all the ones it is I can think of its mandatory for it to be very relivent. No these do not count as internships.Charli said:
Hell to qualify as an internship in the UK technically it has to provide relevant experience and not be displacing a paid worker. This example pases neither test.
There are plenty of internships that play fast and lose with the rules but this one is beyond most I've heard of in the UK.
However, no other company who uses Foxconn have actually tried to make the situation any better. While other companies sat back and did jack shit when the controversies started rolling in and let Apple take all the blame, Apple actually went out and hired inspectors and tightened up regulation. Since then situations in Foxconn factories have reportedly improved, though of course not yet at decent standards.Sgt. Sykes said:
Jesus Christ, that's insane!Tanis said:
There is no way that underdeveloped nations with little regulation exploit the workforce. Don't be ridiculous.
On a serious note, pretty much all the technology anyone owns is made in 3rd world countries and are made by children and co. with as little to no payment. The precious Nike and Adidas are made by people in Africa who are paid approximately $5 per month. Yet why is it only that the world makes a huge fuse about this when it's gaming?
The whole fucking economy of the western world is based on exploiting underdeveloped countries because those don't have regulations to protect the worker. The only way to change this is to completely destroy our economy and build it up with a different consumer mindset. Buy less, consume less and use the money on stuff made in your own country, that is, on the TV that's maybe 4-5 times more expensive than a TV made in China. But that's not gonna happen anytime soon because I don't see the average Joe giving up on his comfort.
No but you obviously missed the part where it looks like most of the PS4 is assembled there while only 10% of the Xbone is.Saltyk said:
Never my intention to turn this into some xbone vs ps4 statement, simply that it looks like Sony is getting a big advantage out of what equates to slave labor that seems to be reflected in their pricing.
I'm sure this isn't really the discussion most people are having specifically, but China is way up there in "human rights" violations because their population doesn't have any. It's almost impressive that after being at war with itself so many times for this exact reason, they still don't have any. And now, while country has tried to position itself on the world stage while everyone is talking about their economy overtaking other nations, it's built on all of this! A country so over-populated that the value of any single person is completely moot.
There's a person WAITING to get into that internship program, probably thousands. They were told, "we've already got enough people" and these students went home and had to tell their parents their shame. Are you mad at Foxconn or the countries that allow these practices? Last I checked, they weren't building in any first world countries. You can feel shame about your phone being made this way, but there are people IN CHINA buying the phones made in these factories. They can SEE the people jumping out of windows. They aren't reading about something horrible in a far off land, THEY SEE THEM JUMP and then turn around and buy a new iPhone fresh off the assembly line.
I guess once we get worker robots this might all go away, after all, even unpaid slave labor can complain, run away or kill itself. The robots will be perfectly subservient, and those students can get an internship fixing the robots. Baby steps folks.
There's a person WAITING to get into that internship program, probably thousands. They were told, "we've already got enough people" and these students went home and had to tell their parents their shame. Are you mad at Foxconn or the countries that allow these practices? Last I checked, they weren't building in any first world countries. You can feel shame about your phone being made this way, but there are people IN CHINA buying the phones made in these factories. They can SEE the people jumping out of windows. They aren't reading about something horrible in a far off land, THEY SEE THEM JUMP and then turn around and buy a new iPhone fresh off the assembly line.
I guess once we get worker robots this might all go away, after all, even unpaid slave labor can complain, run away or kill itself. The robots will be perfectly subservient, and those students can get an internship fixing the robots. Baby steps folks.
Foxconn use a western logo, mainly because most of its costumers are western businesses.rusad said:Since theres no mandarin writing on the building, I would have thought it could have been any building with Foxconn shooped in. The guy with the T-shirt fabulously lifted makes me belive its real, or at least a well thought out shoop.Ed130 said:Yes it was.Khanht Cope said:
But if you really want Chinese characters then here you go.
I did unpaid work as well, in the UK. The held job seekers allowance ransom forcing people to work 'voluntary' jobs before it was branded as slavery by some third party or the EU (can't remember which, it was a report last year). Now many would think "Good, people should work for their benefits." which I agree however they were selling these Voluntary jobs as a way to get a job past without needing an interview by working for them for a number of weeks.
I spent 11 weeks, 8am-5pm, five days a week trying to impress Matalan for a 4 hour contract (which isn't even worth it as it would just cover my traveling costs, but I was desperate). which when I started had 4 available but it turns out they hired 4 people while i was working through the normal process a week into my labour and told the new employees to not tell me they had just been hired so they could keep me working as long as possible. I got half the amount of breaks then an employee and I were beneath them when it came to hierarchy so if the supervisor gave them a job they didn't like they could just dump it on me.
I spent 11 weeks, 8am-5pm, five days a week trying to impress Matalan for a 4 hour contract (which isn't even worth it as it would just cover my traveling costs, but I was desperate). which when I started had 4 available but it turns out they hired 4 people while i was working through the normal process a week into my labour and told the new employees to not tell me they had just been hired so they could keep me working as long as possible. I got half the amount of breaks then an employee and I were beneath them when it came to hierarchy so if the supervisor gave them a job they didn't like they could just dump it on me.
Indeed. Anyone who doesn't realize that at least some part of every electronic device they own was made in a sweatshop under working conditions we would find appalling is being willfully naive.Doom972 said:
Anyone who complains about this but has never lifted a finger to complain to the people who actually make these decisions would be a bit of a hypocrite. People can pretend to be as outraged as they'd like, but most of us are complicit by never so much as firing off an email demanding that companies do better, and continuing to buy the things they produce in this manner.
Current-gen consoles were assembled/manufactured by Foxconn as well. There's a good chance parts of your PC or laptop were assembled/manufactured there. Many mobiles are assembled/manufactured there.Steven Bogos said:
This has absolutely nothing to do with next-gen consoles and everything to to do with labour practices in general. In fact:
And that's the thing. We get indignant at the iPhone or the PS4, but the fact is that they produce so many things it's damn weeeeeird to see people get indignant over a single instance. To be fair, though, I don't think most people are aware.Casual Shinji said:
For example:
What did you type this up on? My last MoBo was Foxconn-assembled and I didn't even know.Adam Jensen said:
It's not just mobiles.
And with labour laws in America under attack, we could be next!Tanis said:
You're assuming a lot of options. Options the Chinese don't have. They may be well aware, but not really have much choice in the end. Hell, other universities may be doing this.VoidWanderer said:
Keep in mind that Stephen Fry pulled up statistics on Chinese labour and while his defense of Foxconn sort of falls flat, it turns out they're slightly better in terms of things like salary and suicide rate. And remember, that's not a defense of Foxconn I'm making, but an indictment of the Chinese labour laws and business practices overall.
Again, the problem comes down to this: how does one avoid such products? It's not even JUST China, but Foxconn specifically is so megalithic. Hell, they're so pervasive, we probably all have Foxconn products in our homes.
Yup. Our electronics would cost slightly more. Slightly. And isn't a small cut in MSRP worth the blood of factory workers?Cybylt said:
It really doesn't. The article already mentions the Xbone, and Microsoft used Foxconn for their last console as well.Psychobabble said:
In fact, the big news story a year or two back was about the iPhone, and we all know how cheap that is....
I find it interesting that this news is being met with a basic sentiment of "meh" and a couple shrugs, now that it's a game console from Sony being made by Foxconn using questionable labor practices. I remember not so long ago that when it was Apple that was reported as using Foxconn, there was a major nerd-rage meltdown all over the place. A number of people opined without haste that such practices were precisely the reason they would never buy Apple products, as they typed such opinions on a computer built of parts (and possibly the whole computer, depending) that were made in a Foxconn factory. Many of these same people were then quick to lob the good ol' "iSheep" retort with reckless abandon, using the Foxconn manufacture of Apple products as justification for such insults. I find the double standard very interesting indeed.