Free Radicals

[Farther than stars]

I suppose it's easy to confuse the meaning of 'radical' when talking about feminism. After all, there was that point in the early twentieth century when they were technically terrorists.

It's easier to blame the "patriarchy", than to blame ourselves.
We like to think there is a shady council, with sinister looking men of power, secretly pulling the strings of the world and making all the bad things happen.
We do it al the time. We do it with Sexism, and we do it with Feminism.
It makes us feel comfortable, because we convince ourself that it's not our fault everything sucks.
That there is someone to blame.
But in reality, each of us is just one drop in an ocean of bad things, and all we can do is try to do our best.

But that is not what patriarchy means. It can mean that, but these days most feminists see it as a more subconscious thing; something that's been instilled in the minds of both men and women. It's a framework that's pervasive in every aspect of society. So in that sense, yes, we are part of the problem; we are part of the patriarchy. And every time you use a word such as 'manpower' or make a joke about women and housework, you are supporting that framework.
Also, sexism and feminism deal with exactly the same issue, namely gender equality.

 

[Requia]

By the comics logic, libertarians are all communists. What a word meant half a century ago is not necessarily relevant to how people use it today, and even if it still had widespread use, there is such a thing as a homonym.

 

[jehk]

It's easier to blame the "patriarchy", than to blame ourselves.
We like to think there is a shady council, with sinister looking men of power, secretly pulling the strings of the world and making all the bad things happen.
We do it al the time. We do it with Sexism, and we do it with Feminism.
It makes us feel comfortable, because we convince ourself that it's not our fault everything sucks.
That there is someone to blame.
But in reality, each of us is just one drop in an ocean of bad things, and all we can do is try to do our best.

Dude, that's not what the patriarchy is. It's a concept, not a Shadow Council. It's kind of like the idea that men are the default, "normal" gender and women are just living in our world. And if you do some research, you'll find it's more pervasive than you might expect.

And it doesn't just hurt women. When men complain that they have no chance in a child custody hearing against the mother, that's because "everyone knows" that children will always be better off with the mother than the father. Or how about the idea, perpetuated by advertising, that men are clueless, incompetent children when it comes to basic aspects of housekeeping and child care? Yup, that too. (This paragraph is mostly to answer the question: "If the patriarchy is real, how come my life as a man isn't perfect?" That's a lazy question, fellas.)

It's pretty complicated, and I'm not about to go research and write an essay for a forum thread. But there's a lot of information online if you have some free time.

Well said. I often use Kanji Tatsumi as an example of patriarchy affecting a male. All of his problems and insecurities stem from this idealized male construct. Real men don't sew! Real men don't like cute things! What are you? Gay?

This is why gender roles are so bad.

 

[I.Muir]

It's easier to blame the "patriarchy", than to blame ourselves.
We like to think there is a shady council, with sinister looking men of power, secretly pulling the strings of the world and making all the bad things happen.
We do it al the time. We do it with Sexism, and we do it with Feminism.
It makes us feel comfortable, because we convince ourself that it's not our fault everything sucks.
That there is someone to blame.
But in reality, each of us is just one drop in an ocean of bad things, and all we can do is try to do our best.

Dude, that's not what the patriarchy is. It's a concept, not a Shadow Council. It's kind of like the idea that men are the default, "normal" gender and women are just living in our world. And if you do some research, you'll find it's more pervasive than you might expect.

And it doesn't just hurt women. When men complain that they have no chance in a child custody hearing against the mother, that's because "everyone knows" that children will always be better off with the mother than the father. Or how about the idea, perpetuated by advertising, that men are clueless, incompetent children when it comes to basic aspects of housekeeping and child care? Yup, that too. (This paragraph is mostly to answer the question: "If the patriarchy is real, how come my life as a man isn't perfect?" That's a lazy question, fellas.)

It's pretty complicated, and I'm not about to go research and write an essay for a forum thread. But there's a lot of information online if you have some free time.

If that is what it truly is then it needs to be called something else. I don't really understand how a word simply meaning the ruling of fathers can convey so many unrelated, pervasive and damaging stereotypes. Unless of course you believe all these troubles are exclusively the fault of men.

Then again what is true for some may not be true for all. If you have heard some talk of patriarchy, you might easily think that they believed it really was the coordinated systematic oppression and hatred of women on the part of all men. That you can easily find anybody in the western world that believes rape is OK but that depends on what you think rape is I suppose. Put that way it sounds like a crazier conspiracy theory than anything L Ron Hubbard could have come up with.

 

[Farther than stars]

Does feminism stand to gain anything by trying to redefine what a radical feminist is? I don't think so.

Well, you thought wrong. Everything that can be more nuanced is useful, otherwise we'd just go around like cavemen grunting at things and using words like 'That!' and 'You!', leading to frequent misunderstandings. When we human beings can relay more information, we act more efficiently.
In this specific case, it is certainly not without merit to distinguish between the different branches of feminism, especially since they've become so diverse in the Third Wave of Feminism. For instance, there are feminists who want to topple the patriarchy and women who just want equal pay. Making that distinction from the get-go can be useful in determining the priorities of the individual feminists you are talking to.

 

[Quantum Glass]

I want that T shirt.

I'm far too privileged in life to speak with any authority on feminism, or equality in general. I don't know the difference between feminism and simply wanting everyone to be treated equally, or if there even is a difference. I can't empathize with those who've who've faced hardship and prejudice, who've been looked down upon or discriminated against, who've even been persecuted for traits or beliefs that I share with them myself, simply because I've been sheltered from all of that all of my life. I can say that I'm on their side, and perhaps I even am, but when push comes to shove I don't know what it's like, and likely never will.

The only thing I know for sure is...I want that T shirt.

 

[jehk]

For instance, there are feminists who want to topple the patriarchy and women who just want equal pay.

Nevermind. Read pay as play. Gave it a different context in my mind.

 

[tangoprime]

Am I the only one that thought of this when I saw "Free Radicals" as the title?

One of the best Bond lines ever at the end there.

 

[Blaster395]

I oppose radical feminism simply because it's extremely transphobic. They believe that MTF trans are imposters and FTM are traitors. It's not just "Smash the Patriarchy", it goes beyond that, and its so bad that radfems have managed to use their influence to ban MTF trans people from joining several feminist organizations.

Not to mention they have shot themselves in the foot by labeling all the good things with feminine names and labeling all the bad things with masculine names. Worst PR move ever.

It really isn't any more complicated than that.

 

[Farther than stars]

Does feminism stand to gain anything by trying to redefine what a radical feminist is? I don't think so.

Do Muslims stand to gain anything by trying to redefine what radical Islam is?

I've known quite a few Muslims over the years. One guy was as devout in his religion as anyone I've ever met. Yet he was the first to condemn any violent act done in the name of Islam.

Would he benefit by having the radical elements of his religion redefined and distanced from his mainstream beliefs?

You bet he would have.

For one, he wouldn't have the majority of Americans thinking he should take personal responsibility for 9/11.

I wholeheartedly agree with the core feminist principle of equality for all. Women should be paid as much as men. There should be no doors closed for either gender.

But when you have a radical feminist calling for the castration of all pre-pubescent men, the feminist movement would certainly benefit by redefining that element as something else entirely.

See the problem is, you didn't get the message the comic was trying to send. That is not what radical means in this situation. Radical feminism is about toppling the patriarchy, not castrating all men. -.-

 

[Entitled]

So a radical feminist is anyone who believes in patriarchy? Ok fine, I don't like them too much either. I think that whole theory brings nothing of value to discussion since it's so easily used a vague cop-out/scapegoat. Often times I'll hear them say something like "that bias against men exists because of patriarchy, buy our feminist war bonds against the evil patriarchy if you want to help men".

Patriarchy is not a theory, it's the name of a social system.

Just like anarchy, or oligarchy, or monarchy.

Specifically, this one is greek for a system where the authority (arkhēs) is primarily held by males(patēr). That's it. No complex "theory", or "scapegoat", pretty much just the statement that the problem with gender issues is the focus on male authority.

As long as you believe that the idea of a society "ruled by men" is possible, or even it used to exist, the question is not really whether you "believe in the patriarchy theory", but only exactly how appropriately it describes our current society.

 

[freaper]

I understand what you tried to do with her hands in panel two, but it looks a tad awkward. Desks are pretty mandatory to make that pose work.

 

[IceForce]

You know, I cannot from any real perspective see how this comic will create an argument. It is quite simply pointing out that "Radical" in this particular context does not mean what many attribute it to mean. I see no issue.

... then you haven't been on this website for long enough, or you haven't been paying attention.

I'll give you a couple of recent examples.

Jimquisition about how internet death threats are bad:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.825793-Jimquisition-Im-Going-To-Murder-Your-Children
This shoud've been simple. Internet death threats are bad. There's no disputing it.
But somehow, it spiralled into 16 pages of arguments.

ZP, where Yahtzee makes a hamless and throwaway transgender joke:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.825922-Zero-Punctuation-Papers-Please-and-Brothers-A-Tale-of-Two-Sons
Once again, something that should've been pretty tame, spiralled into a massive flamewar that completely took over the thread.

There are many, many other countless examples.
People here will find anything to argue about.

 

[TiberiusEsuriens]

False advertising.

False advertising indeed. They must be thinking of straw feminists!

http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341

 

[Farther than stars]

For instance, there are feminists who want to topple the patriarchy and women who just want equal pay.

Nevermind. Read pay as play. Gave it a different context in my mind.

No worries.

I oppose radical feminism simply because it's extremely transphobic. They believe that MTF trans are imposters and FTM are traitors.

Not to mention they have shot themselves in the foot by labeling all the good things with feminine names and labeling all the bad things with masculine names. Worst PR move ever.

It really isn't any more complicated than that.

While the comment about transphobia is a coherent criticism against some radical feminists, it by no means applies to all of them. I know some very radical radical feminists who wholeheartedly support the LGBT movement.
As to the labeling issue, it's not so much that masculine words are bad and feminine words are good, it's more about the way in which they're used. Look at the gender names for dogs for instance. 'Sire' is used to denote lordship when used for a human. And then look at the use of the name for female dogs... When little details like that are packed together, they can have a profound effect on the social psyche.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Free Radicals

Hold up - are you suggesting that Poochie was a radical feminist?

EDIT: pissflaps, I have been thoroughly ninja'd :-(