Funny events in anti-woke world

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thebobmaster

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If this goes through, anyone even VISITING the US will be required to have their social media screened, providing their last 5 years of activity, as well as email addresses and telephone numbers used in the last 5 years, and the names, addresses, telephone numbers, and birthdays of family members.

TO VISIT. Not even stay on a visa, this would be required for anyone who wanted to come see our glorious country that's just perfect and better than everywhere else in the world.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Problem is that the far right won't stop at migrants when we've decided human rights shouldn't matter
Don't worry, they're already demonizing them AND migrants. Also, they never need to stop or not stop at migrants, because migrants will always be there as the perfect scapegoat.
 

Agema

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If this goes through, anyone even VISITING the US will be required to have their social media screened, providing their last 5 years of activity, as well as email addresses and telephone numbers used in the last 5 years, and the names, addresses, telephone numbers, and birthdays of family members.

TO VISIT. Not even stay on a visa, this would be required for anyone who wanted to come see our glorious country that's just perfect and better than everywhere else in the world.
Given that booking visits generally involves commitment of substantial money in flights and hotels, etc. which could be at risk, I'm not going to the USA if some border agent might get in a snit because I criticised US policy and deny me entry.
 

Agema

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Don't worry, they're already demonizing them AND migrants. Also, they never need to stop or not stop at migrants, because migrants will always be there as the perfect scapegoat.
Sure, but when they start running short of migrants to pick on, they'll go for people who share the same sort of characteristics - so anyone with darker skin, non-Christian religions, etc. Much like the same way that once they've rowed back on trans rights, they'll come for homosexuality, and then eventually women (which they have already started on, of course).
 

Casual Shinji

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Sure, but when they start running short of migrants to pick on, they'll go for people who share the same sort of characteristics - so anyone with darker skin, non-Christian religions, etc. Much like the same way that once they've rowed back on trans rights, they'll come for homosexuality, and then eventually women (which they have already started on, of course).
I don't think they ever will run short, and I don't think they even want to - Migrants are too effective of a scapegoat for the Right to actually "solve". Also, first world countries need migrants to do the jobs mainstream media has stigmatized its own people into not wanting. They will NEVER run short!
 

Phoenixmgs

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That statement. That statement is far more extreme than anything Offit said. He said protection against mild infection doesn't last. That's not the same thing.



Buddy, people transmit colds to one another by being in passing contact all the time.



In. The. US.

As I have already explained to you, we are not merely talking about the United States. Wakefield was a British fraudster writing in a British journal with international reach in hundreds of countries. The incidence of Rubella is around ~17,000. The estimate for Measles is nearing 10m.



Who the fuck here has been defending the halting of nutrition benefits and immunisation?

Hell, you're the only one here who's been throwing anti-immunisation rhetoric around.
Yes, it fucking is the same thing. If protection from mild infection doesn't last, then protection from infection doesn't last...

No, they don't. If colds transferred that easily, people would always be sick.

Yes, I'm aware it's just not the US... You haven't shown literally any data showing a significant increase in infections/deaths because of Wakefield.

It's one of the downsides of covid shutdowns that you have to consider in a COST-benefit analysis.

I've never been against any vaccine to any group that provides more benefit than harm. Because I'm against a vaccine mandate for a vaccine that doesn't confer any community benefit doesn't mean I'm against the vaccine.
 

Trunkage

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I didn't misattributed Offit...

You can't stop the spread, literally every place in the world showed you that. Not even China could stop it forcibly locking people in their homes.
Not every place in the world was interested in slowing the spread of COVID

Every cost/benefit analysis of the lockdowns have said that lockdowns caused more overall harm.
Yeah, fundamentally not true. You saw some predictions in 2020 and thought it was true. Lockdown kept business open, let you walk around unmasked, let children fo to school without killing their parents or teachers, kept the economy booming. You lived in a country that did nothing to actually lockdown. I lived in a country that did. Guess what happened with the parks?... they sure didnt get covered in sand. The kids could play and socialise, just as you want

But then, this comes down to the real problem. You are using one type of lockdown as a representation of all lockdowns. This is nonsense. It's like when you talk about RussiaGate. It's quite clear that you are talking about something else entirely than everyone else on this forum. Or the Main Stream Media. There is probably someone, somewhere who made the claims you made. So you this to pretend RussiaGate was a hoax. Your defintion of RussiaGate is not what everyone else thinks RussiaGate is

You pretend what lockdowns and get cranky when some points out that is does not mean what you think it means.

I would much prefer to have lockdowns that what Sweden did. That sounds obnoxiously intrusive


Nobody died because people didn't wear a mask, you have no evidence that masks did anything... You have nothing to prove your claims. Again, there is no community benefit of mandate a vaccine that provides no community benefit.
Absolutely not. They could track air conditioning currents in restaurants and prove how people got infected. They could prove that masks stopped most droplets. There were huge benefits to lockdowns over 'staying open'. I put it in quotation marks because staying open did not actually mean staying open

Covid is/was less harmful to kids than the flu,
True. And kids still died.
there's no reason kids couldn't play together. Also, kids hardly spread covid (because they lower expression of ACE2) so them playing isn't a risk for parents.
I first caught COVID off a kid. I know I didn't catch it from anyone else because the only other adult around never got COVID and had to get tested daily to be allowed to work while I was sick

See, you are equating 'lower expression' with 0%. Which is moronic. It just means lower and definitely above 0. You can still catch COVID off kids and schools were a breeding ground. Many teachers and parents died.

But this is how you have treated COVID from day 1. Cloth masks remove 80& of droplets somehow means they don't work. The rate of deaths from Covid infection is less than flu infection, which somehow means that Covid is going to kill fewer people. Despite the fact that more people died to Covid by April 2020 than would die to flu for a whole year. Co-morbidities would double your chance of dying.... but the death rate went from about 1% to 2%. You have a setemce, strip all context from around the sentence, twist its meaning and say it agrees with you

Outside isn't a risk for anyone, there's literally no downside in letting kids play outside besides kids losing part of their childhoods. Kids playing literally has nothing to do with any of those death numbers that you mentioned.
This is laziness and there definitely are downsides. You can give them a childhood. It just won't look the same as outside of the pandemic. You, as a parent, just have to put effort in

You say all these things without realising YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING TO FIX THE SITUATION. It's not static. You can change for the better
 

Trunkage

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Yep, that's what early, low-information recommendations were like. They were often overcautious or off-the-mark, or had an element of educated guesswork. It was a novel virus.
Fauci did get things wrong at the start. Then he changed his recommendation based on scientific research into COVID

It's strange to see someone getting offended at changing their mind when presented with new facts
 
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Agema

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Fauci did get things wrong at the start.
Pfft. When operating from a place where there is very little information, ultimately people have to make choices and some of them are likely to be "wrong" - albeit where "wrong" means perhaps "generating a suboptimal outcome" (sense 1). But I think we can define wrong another and more useful way: "a bad idea according to current knowledge" (sense 2).

Science (contrary to many people's apparent understanding) is really about probabilities of something being true. Many studies use 95% likely to be true - so statistically, wrong (1) on every 20th "fact", which should be quite sobering. Obviously, lots of decision-making might have to be made on much less certainty. In some cases, there might be very little solidly known... and yet some shit still just makes sense. Is this a respiratory infection? Well then good chance it's got a virus you can breathe out onto people, so stay the fuck away from them. Even if in eight months' time we find out keeping distance was unnecessary (wrong 1), it was still a fantastic idea at the time (so not wrong 2). If that involved cooking up easily understandable rules to give everyone a clear and practical framework to stay the fuck away from other people, that's actually fine. The people quibbling that the distance was arbitrary or whatever are just people too stupid to understand what the job that needed doing was.

Thus the real measure of Fauci and many other public health officials is not so much "were they right?", but "did they make reasonable decisions?" Overwhelmingly, yes they did, and much better ones than most of their critics. They made reasonable decisions, in good faith. In the main, the critics who think otherwise are just cunts with stupid axes to grind. Some of them are political cunts, some of them are wellness/anti-medicine cunts, but they're all cunts nonetheless. None of them are serious about public health. None of them actually had to make difficult decisions, and like every cunty critic, they're saved their humiliation by way of their stupid ideas never being tested.
 
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Hades

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Silvanus

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Yes, it fucking is the same thing. If protection from mild infection doesn't last, then protection from infection doesn't last...
"Doesn't last" and "doesn't happen at all" are very, very different things.

No, they don't. If colds transferred that easily, people would always be sick.
Common colds are very common. Its in the name.

Yes, I'm aware it's just not the US... You haven't shown literally any data showing a significant increase in infections/deaths because of Wakefield.
I have already explained why the stat you requested is meaningless.

It's one of the downsides of covid shutdowns that you have to consider in a COST-benefit analysis.
Horseshit. Many countries managed lockdowns without halting nutritional programs or immunisation drives. The poor decision of this handfull of east Asian countries doesn't reflect on the principle of lockdown whatsoever.

I've never been against any vaccine to any group that provides more benefit than harm.
And you exaggerate the harm (such as negligible risks of mild myocarditis) while ignoring or dismissing the benefits (as above).
 

thebobmaster

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Incidentally, France just published results of a 4-year long study they did on millions of both mRNA vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, specifically excluding those vaccinated by means other than mRNA based vaccines. They found that not only was there no increase in mortality rates over a median follow-up of 45 months, but vaccination resulted in a 74% decrease in deaths from severe cases of COVID.


This, however, is even more interesting. One of the last paragraphs in the results/methods section (yes, I actually DO read my sources): "All-cause mortality was lower within 6 months following COVID-19 vaccination, regardless of the dose administered, compared with the control periods (relative incidence [RI], 0.71; 95% CI, 0.69-0.73) (Table 3),34 with a stronger negative association for COVID-19 mortality (RI, 0.39; 95% CI, 0.32-0.47). No substantial differences were observed across 3-month subperiods for all-cause or cause-specific mortality (eTable 6 in Supplement 1). " In layman's terms, the group that had been immunized was less likely to die after a six month period, from anything. Not just COVID, any causes. Not by a large margin, mind you, but apparently not statistically insignificant.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Not every place in the world was interested in slowing the spread of COVID

Yeah, fundamentally not true. You saw some predictions in 2020 and thought it was true. Lockdown kept business open, let you walk around unmasked, let children fo to school without killing their parents or teachers, kept the economy booming. You lived in a country that did nothing to actually lockdown. I lived in a country that did. Guess what happened with the parks?... they sure didnt get covered in sand. The kids could play and socialise, just as you want

But then, this comes down to the real problem. You are using one type of lockdown as a representation of all lockdowns. This is nonsense. It's like when you talk about RussiaGate. It's quite clear that you are talking about something else entirely than everyone else on this forum. Or the Main Stream Media. There is probably someone, somewhere who made the claims you made. So you this to pretend RussiaGate was a hoax. Your defintion of RussiaGate is not what everyone else thinks RussiaGate is

You pretend what lockdowns and get cranky when some points out that is does not mean what you think it means.

I would much prefer to have lockdowns that what Sweden did. That sounds obnoxiously intrusive


Absolutely not. They could track air conditioning currents in restaurants and prove how people got infected. They could prove that masks stopped most droplets. There were huge benefits to lockdowns over 'staying open'. I put it in quotation marks because staying open did not actually mean staying open

True. And kids still died.
I first caught COVID off a kid. I know I didn't catch it from anyone else because the only other adult around never got COVID and had to get tested daily to be allowed to work while I was sick

See, you are equating 'lower expression' with 0%. Which is moronic. It just means lower and definitely above 0. You can still catch COVID off kids and schools were a breeding ground. Many teachers and parents died.

But this is how you have treated COVID from day 1. Cloth masks remove 80& of droplets somehow means they don't work. The rate of deaths from Covid infection is less than flu infection, which somehow means that Covid is going to kill fewer people. Despite the fact that more people died to Covid by April 2020 than would die to flu for a whole year. Co-morbidities would double your chance of dying.... but the death rate went from about 1% to 2%. You have a setemce, strip all context from around the sentence, twist its meaning and say it agrees with you


This is laziness and there definitely are downsides. You can give them a childhood. It just won't look the same as outside of the pandemic. You, as a parent, just have to put effort in

You say all these things without realising YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING TO FIX THE SITUATION. It's not static. You can change for the better
So you're saying there were not enough countries trying to stop the spread and if there were more, you would've have save at least one succeeding?

Literally happened...


You could see how people got infected in restaurants because you had real world results of that happening. There is no real world model showing masks slowing infections. I can just point to the UK and the models they used to show you how horrible covid predictive modeling was.

More kids die from the flu, the concern for that isn't nearly as high as covid. The concern for something should match the risk. This is the type of stuff kids had to endure because kids are the main population that you can actually control the most since they are minors. The article is from April 2023 and even at that point (3 YEARS LATER), kids couldn't talk during lunch, they had to wear masks outside. This is the epitome of anti-science.

I literally said kids hardly spread covid (especially when compared to the flu), not that they have a 0% transfer rate. It's literally what you quoted...

Covid is not droplet-based transmission and we have studies showing cloth masks did nothing... Covid's death rate was never 1% or 2%, do you know how many more people would've died if that was true? Also, Rachel Maddow would've been fine with a 2% death rate. She literally says just do the things that protect yourself from a cold.


Covid doesn't spread outside, why would you stop kids from playing outside?

Fauci did get things wrong at the start. Then he changed his recommendation based on scientific research into COVID

It's strange to see someone getting offended at changing their mind when presented with new facts
He was right about masks as that is literally what the science said, they he changed his opinion based on ideology vs science. There was no mask science done in those couple weeks where he changed his mind.

Literally Fauci was wrong about like everything he said here. I knew he was wrong then without hindsight. It was super obvious covid was in the US and spreading but he said there was no community spread. He literally says and tells New York residents on February 29th that "Right now, at this moment, there is no need to change anything you are doing on a day by day basis." I went to C2E2 in late February in 2020 and literally everyone there knew covid was there, we also knew it was gonna be like the last time we could do anything like that for awhile. Common sense told you that, but Dr. Fauci couldn't see that. Also, one of my doctors that you all say is incompetent, Marty Makary, said in January 2020 that we need to start doing things for covid but no one listened.

God forbid a democracy might value the readability of its public documents.
Huh? Times New Roman is essentially just a bold Calibri. Metal Gear Solid 2 literally predicted this nonsense.

"Doesn't last" and "doesn't happen at all" are very, very different things.



Common colds are very common. Its in the name.



I have already explained why the stat you requested is meaningless.



Horseshit. Many countries managed lockdowns without halting nutritional programs or immunisation drives. The poor decision of this handfull of east Asian countries doesn't reflect on the principle of lockdown whatsoever.



And you exaggerate the harm (such as negligible risks of mild myocarditis) while ignoring or dismissing the benefits (as above).
What?

Average amount of colds per year per person is 2-4...

Then don't claim meaningless things. I have data for my claim of vaccination rates lowering but you don't.

Those countries get aid from wealthy Western nations that stopped said aid because it wasn't "essential".

The benefits are extremely negligible even more so than the flu vaccine that isn't mandated...
 

Silvanus

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"Doesn't last" (what Offit said) and "doesn't happen at all" (what you claim) are very, very different things.

Average amount of colds per year per person is 2-4...
Yep. As diseases go, that's extraordinarily common. And it's well established and accepted that passing contact can transmit the common cold through droplets, sneezes and coughs. What, did you think cold viruses just spontaneously generate inside healthy people?

Then don't claim meaningless things. I have data for my claim of vaccination rates lowering but you don't.
Analyses of the impact of anti-vax fraud are readily available.

I also know that if i post anything, you'll do what you always do: nitpick on irrelevant minor details to dismiss it out of hand. There's no point. You are incapable of engaging with it.

Those countries get aid from wealthy Western nations that stopped said aid because it wasn't "essential".
So what? You do this so often: just randomly spout non-sequiturs or irrelevances. This has no bearing on anything. Nobody here is defending the halting of nutritional or immunisation programs. And lockdowns do not require them to halt. Obviously.

The benefits are extremely negligible even more so than the flu vaccine that isn't mandated...
"The benefits of vaccination are extremely negligible", sure thing buddy.

Every piece of evidence we have, every scientific body, agrees vaccination protects people-- particularly the most vulnerable groups, the elderly, immunocomprimised, essential workers-- from the severest symptoms of covid. There is no genuine debate over this. Its not up for discussion. Hell, your own beloved Paul Offit is exceptionally clear on it.

You're repeating anti-vax horseshit.
 

Phoenixmgs

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"Doesn't last" (what Offit said) and "doesn't happen at all" (what you claim) are very, very different things.



Yep. As diseases go, that's extraordinarily common. And it's well established and accepted that passing contact can transmit the common cold through droplets, sneezes and coughs. What, did you think cold viruses just spontaneously generate inside healthy people?



Analyses of the impact of anti-vax fraud are readily available.

I also know that if i post anything, you'll do what you always do: nitpick on irrelevant minor details to dismiss it out of hand. There's no point. You are incapable of engaging with it.



So what? You do this so often: just randomly spout non-sequiturs or irrelevances. This has no bearing on anything. Nobody here is defending the halting of nutritional or immunisation programs. And lockdowns do not require them to halt. Obviously.



"The benefits of vaccination are extremely negligible", sure thing buddy.

Every piece of evidence we have, every scientific body, agrees vaccination protects people-- particularly the most vulnerable groups, the elderly, immunocomprimised, essential workers-- from the severest symptoms of covid. There is no genuine debate over this. Its not up for discussion. Hell, your own beloved Paul Offit is exceptionally clear on it.

You're repeating anti-vax horseshit.
No there's not, all upper respiratory infections give you immunity to other upper respiratory infections for a short while. Covid is no different from the flu or head cold in that regard and so is the vaccine.

If you got colds just from minimal interactions with others at stores, you'd be sick much more often than 2-4 times a year. When you get sick, it's almost always due to someone you spend a good chunk of time with like family or friends or co-workers passing on the cold. Or even like at a restaurant someone the next table over being sick and the air flowing your way; that's like an hour of interaction time vs a couple minutes at a store being next to a sick person. You next to someone that's sick at the grocery store getting milk at the same time as them is not getting you sick.

Again, you've shown no evidence...

That is literally what lockdowns caused...

I didn't say vaccination on the whole provides negligible benefits. I said specifically covid vaccination for kids provides negligible benefits, kids getting the flu vaccine provide more benefits but you don't mandate kids getting the flu vaccine. There was no reason to mandate kids getting the covid vaccine or even recommending it to them. I guess in your world Paul Offit is anti-vax because he didn't get the measles vaccine because he didn't need it.

And that's why polio is still a major problem!

...oh, wait, no it isn't. Vaccinations ended it.
Not all vaccinations are as important as others...
 

Silvanus

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No there's not, all upper respiratory infections give you immunity to other upper respiratory infections for a short while. Covid is no different from the flu or head cold in that regard and so is the vaccine.
...so you acknowledge they do give protection. Contrary to what you said before.

If you got colds just from minimal interactions with others at stores, you'd be sick much more often than 2-4 times a year. When you get sick, it's almost always due to someone you spend a good chunk of time with like family or friends or co-workers passing on the cold. Or even like at a restaurant someone the next table over being sick and the air flowing your way; that's like an hour of interaction time vs a couple minutes at a store being next to a sick person. You next to someone that's sick at the grocery store getting milk at the same time as them is not getting you sick.
And yet, people who don't have colleagues, or live alone, or don't spend hours with sick people, get colds all the time too.

Again, you've shown no evidence...
It has been demonstrated time and again that there is no point in presenting evidence to you.

You routinely post doggerel with no evidence whatsoever-- "vaccines don't protect anyone", "colds don't transmit through routine contact", "lockdowns killed loads more people", "vaccines are dangerous". Zero basis. And yet here, you demand evidence for anyone who disputes your outlandish statements, even though we both know you'd never accept any given.

That is literally what lockdowns caused...
Nope. Countless countries locked down without halting immunisation or essential nutritional programs. There's a reason your source deals only with a handful of countries in asia.

I didn't say vaccination on the whole provides negligible benefits. I said specifically covid vaccination for kids provides negligible benefits
No, you didn't merely say that. You've retreated to that now because your original statement was so indefensible.

But anyway, i don't need to argue. We can turn to your favourite figure Paul Offit, can't we, who encouraged kids in wealthy countries to get vaccinated.