Funny events in anti-woke world
- Thread starter Agema
- Start date
It did get everywhere. But not everywhere did wacky leaders say it was just the flue and that it would go away in the spring. Not everywhere did wacky leaders bicker all the time with their own doctors and expert, nor did they openly wonder on national television whether bleach was the miracle cure we needed. Its not about preventing covid from being there, its about reacting to covid when its there.
Yup.
hey, Hey, HEY! Easy there! Responsibility is for other people, not us!
How can we be responsible if we can put the blame on others? Come on now.
Its become quite apparent that the right has a really toxic hatred, fear or at least extreme discomfort towards the left. Its also clear that the left really doesn't return these negative emotions or done anything to deserve them.
I know some people might point to the extremely negative reception towards Trump and politicians like him but those are typically not real right wing politicians. They are mutations and usually these demagogues are the ones who open hostilities with the left first. But aside from these mutations the left is usually very docile within the political arena and with their relations to the right. The left sits in coalitions with right wing partners, implement right wing economic policies and they've generally refused to overturn the Reagan revolution. And while the normal right wing politicians might be disliked by the left there's generally the sentiment within the left that these leaders are legitimate and that they aren't maliciously conspiring to do harm. Cameron, Bush, Rutte, Merkel, Sarkozy were all condoned by the left to some degree. Even Bush's shaky legitimacy and disaster presidency didn't prompt the Democrats to seek dirty ways to remove him from office like the Trump crowd is now trying with Biden. Even Bush didn't prompt mass hysteria or dirty politics.
But when it comes to how the right treats the left it usually boils down to distrust, hatred or outright hysteria.
America is the obvious example. Republicans aren't just amoral and power hungry. Their fear of everything vaguely to the left of Reagan seems to be sincere, and they've granted themselves permission to damage the system as much as possible if it keeps the left out of power. Completely mundane politicians like Biden and Obama get painted as dangerous socialists out to destroy the country. The Republican party went politically berserk when Obama got elected and their supporters went physically berserk when Biden got elected. And you of course had the state sponsered destruction of every person deemed a bit too left leaning during the McCarty days which I don't think is something the left ever inflicted on the right anywhere within the civilized world.
You see it in Britain too with the enormous hostility towards Corbyn. The conservative party unleashed the Brexit disaster on the country and yet the press made it seem as if Corbyn and not the architect of Brexit was the ''radical'' choice. Even Labour itself seemed to find Brexiteers more comfortable than their own left leaning faction.
Or in Brazil where the right has decided that colluding with fascists and admirers of the dictatorship was worth it if it kept the left from power. The left leaning president Rousseff was impeached on false corruption charges essentially because the right didn't like her, and her predecessor who might have won the left the election was quickly jailed by one of Bolsonaro's cronies to prevent that from happening. Meanwhile no one is rushing to impeach Bolsonaro for actual crimes and actually dangerous behavior.
Even in western Europe you can see traces of this discomfort towards the left. In the Netherlands the right wing CDA and VVD parties are in no way a part of the recent demagogic wave within the right and they both have long histories of working closely with the left, but in the current coalition talks they systematically blocked the left from participating because they didn't want to be ''smothered'' by a ''leftist smog''. And the German CDU which can also be counted as one of the more sane right wing parties within Europe started promoting the specter of the ''dangerous left'' when it seemed they threatened to lose the election, saying how bad it would be for Germany if the Greens and the SPD could govern without a right wing party to reign them in.
Considering how tame left wing parties usually govern and how receptive they tend to be of non demagogic right wing government this extreme fear towards them seems really petty.
I know some people might point to the extremely negative reception towards Trump and politicians like him but those are typically not real right wing politicians. They are mutations and usually these demagogues are the ones who open hostilities with the left first. But aside from these mutations the left is usually very docile within the political arena and with their relations to the right. The left sits in coalitions with right wing partners, implement right wing economic policies and they've generally refused to overturn the Reagan revolution. And while the normal right wing politicians might be disliked by the left there's generally the sentiment within the left that these leaders are legitimate and that they aren't maliciously conspiring to do harm. Cameron, Bush, Rutte, Merkel, Sarkozy were all condoned by the left to some degree. Even Bush's shaky legitimacy and disaster presidency didn't prompt the Democrats to seek dirty ways to remove him from office like the Trump crowd is now trying with Biden. Even Bush didn't prompt mass hysteria or dirty politics.
But when it comes to how the right treats the left it usually boils down to distrust, hatred or outright hysteria.
America is the obvious example. Republicans aren't just amoral and power hungry. Their fear of everything vaguely to the left of Reagan seems to be sincere, and they've granted themselves permission to damage the system as much as possible if it keeps the left out of power. Completely mundane politicians like Biden and Obama get painted as dangerous socialists out to destroy the country. The Republican party went politically berserk when Obama got elected and their supporters went physically berserk when Biden got elected. And you of course had the state sponsered destruction of every person deemed a bit too left leaning during the McCarty days which I don't think is something the left ever inflicted on the right anywhere within the civilized world.
You see it in Britain too with the enormous hostility towards Corbyn. The conservative party unleashed the Brexit disaster on the country and yet the press made it seem as if Corbyn and not the architect of Brexit was the ''radical'' choice. Even Labour itself seemed to find Brexiteers more comfortable than their own left leaning faction.
Or in Brazil where the right has decided that colluding with fascists and admirers of the dictatorship was worth it if it kept the left from power. The left leaning president Rousseff was impeached on false corruption charges essentially because the right didn't like her, and her predecessor who might have won the left the election was quickly jailed by one of Bolsonaro's cronies to prevent that from happening. Meanwhile no one is rushing to impeach Bolsonaro for actual crimes and actually dangerous behavior.
Even in western Europe you can see traces of this discomfort towards the left. In the Netherlands the right wing CDA and VVD parties are in no way a part of the recent demagogic wave within the right and they both have long histories of working closely with the left, but in the current coalition talks they systematically blocked the left from participating because they didn't want to be ''smothered'' by a ''leftist smog''. And the German CDU which can also be counted as one of the more sane right wing parties within Europe started promoting the specter of the ''dangerous left'' when it seemed they threatened to lose the election, saying how bad it would be for Germany if the Greens and the SPD could govern without a right wing party to reign them in.
Considering how tame left wing parties usually govern and how receptive they tend to be of non demagogic right wing government this extreme fear towards them seems really petty.
Not going to link it, but Stephen Crowder did an interview with Kyle Rittenhouse recently as part of the communal passing of modern right-wing reactionary profiteering off their newfound prophet. And for anyone mildly sane that already knows of Crowder - the failed actor who realised there's way more money to be made off of appealing to the lowest common denominator of modern reactionary right-wing voters - it's just as nauseating as you would imagine it to be.
No and not everywhere were leaders claiming people should go to street parties and masks weren't needed and shouldn't be worn like certain people opposing Trump also said........
Really?
Shit actually is going badly now not just random fearmongering on the news and "Oh Trump is so impolite and nasty on social media truly the sky is falling" stuff.
I'm sorry what?
Really?
Really?
No toxic hatred?
Really?
Teenagers in Portland were shot dead in Chaz because claims went round that they were Proudboys attacking Chaz.
Kyle Rittenhouse had people try to throw him in jail when he was on bail because he had drinks and posed for photos with people who turned out to be (and no-one sane would know this at the time) to be proud boys.
A reporter tried to dox and claim a person employed by ICE was a neonazi because of a regimental tattoo he had being a former Army soldier who left the Army due to injuries during his service.
A Guy turned up the the cogressional baseball game a few years ago and shot republican cogressmen.
Ricin was attempted to be sent to Trump.
A Van literally mounted the pavement and drove through a Trump 2020 campaign stand.
A conservative doing a speech at a university turned into a multi-million dollar riot.
A sitting member of congress accused another of trying to have her assassinated when he suggested they both work together on something as they seemed to share similar goals on a subject.
In recent times the toxic hatred is so bad and there's such almost fear that anyone not towing the line gets thrown into the proverbial pit and forever labelled a right winger. The toxic hatred is so bad the left has been willingly abandoning principals they claimed to fight for in the past just to try and screw over people they think are right wing.
To paraphrase I think it was Sting "I never thought I'd see the day when it was the left acting like petty authoritarians telling everyone they needed to be polite and civil by their standards and calling for things they didn't like to be censored while the right wing were the ones being seen and edgy offensive and counter culture"
How Hatred Came To Dominate American Politics
To anyone following American politics, it’s not exactly news that Democrats and Republicans don’t like each other. Take what happened in the presidential debate…
fivethirtyeight.com
I think it was Tulsi Gabbard who said the modern democrat party is also increasingly pushing partisan voting on issues and things when she was on the Joe Rogan experience.
There's always been a faction of the right that was opposed to the left just to be opposed to it but it's both sides now and it's one of the reason I said I hoped Biden's call for unity was serious and not just some token gesture when he took power and I still hope he does push harder on it but it seems he's not willing to and it's less actual unity and more unity in the "You will agree with us" sense.
Yes. The left not returning these weird negative feelings that the right have towards them. You don't see the left prefering communism over regular conservative democracy(beyond the fringes at least), you don't see left leaning politics playing extremely dirty or even trying to torch the system to deny either normal or demagogic conservatives power.
Many of the instances you pointed to also have people lash out against the crazy demagogic brand of the right, not the right as a whole, and you're typically not refering to anyone with political power.
A leader like Bush was accepted, a leader like Merkel was accepted, Cameron was accepted and Rutte is still accepted. You do not see the mass hysteria about them nor are leftist trying to remove them on trumpted up charges.
Are you referring to Cortez and Cruz? With Cruz knowingly lying to such an extend it got a crazy mob to storm the capitol and who would have murdered her? And where it has since came out that the crazy mob somehow knew exactly which windows they could break in? Yeah, why wouldn't she hold cruz in the deepest possible mistrust after that?
If you've read that new Axios survey, it would seem more people on the left are coming to realize that there is no benefit to associating with people who don't consider us people. The reaction to this news from conservatives also tends to indicate they want our approval a lot more than they claim to.
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The bottom line is that in many countries, currently, the policies of the left are more popular.
In the USA, for instance, the Republicans have won more votes than the Democrats in just one election in the last 30 years. In the UK, the Conservative Party has been vastly more successful at winning elections... despite polls repeatedly suggesting less popular policies. They get away with it because of the hopelessly pro-right lopsided British media, and carefully tended reputation for competence: because it's no point Labour having better policies if it's not trusted to govern.
If the political battlefield cannot be won on policy, it must be won through other means: culture wars, crude jingoism, etc.
And you don't see that with the right either.........
It's just with the left that fringe seems to have a lot more power and people aren't willing to call them idiots. Instead it's trying to reframe things all the time "No Ablolish / defund the police doesn't mean actually do that" or "No-one wants to actually separate from the USA ignore the fact people literally claimed an area and claimed it was an autonomous collective zone no longer under the control of or obligation to follow US laws."
I mean come on the left are the ones with people earning millions on Twitch and youtube who do so by yelling about how capitalism is evil and communism is the way of the future or whatever. These are the people getting followed or at least attention on the left.
Random teenagers are the demagogoic right?
Congressmen willing to have a friendly baseball game against their congress opponents are demogogoic?
Congressmen literally suggesting working together for a common goal and aim are demogogic?
Cameron was accepted initially because it was a coalition government.
When May took power and it was against Corbyn he tried every damn trick in the book. Every week he was calling for her or one of her staff to resign. Corbyn was some-one who tried to block the Queens speech to start parliament to try and stop May being PM after the election. In US terms that would be like the republicans trying to vote down the oath of office ceremony for the president.
Hell how was that Russian conspiracy stuff with Trump in the end? Trump wasn't found to have connections or being blackmailed by Russia. Isn't one of the people behind that intelligence paper now in court over it in the US for lying about stuff?
On Twitter and in left wing echo chambers.
You can argue the policies have appeal but when people realise how they will be achieved and the realities of situation they're rather less keen. Especially when it was shown as in the case of the UK that the previous left wing government were champagne socialists who happily let multinational companies pay no tax and made up for that by selling off country investment assets and raising taxes of the public to make up for it along with look good but do nothing green taxes that weren't to fund green energy in the end.
Also the British media being right wing is mostly because the left wing outlets collapsed when they tried to push more left wing things many of them not exactly backed up by reality.
The Guardian has fallen a long way since the ideas their Three Little Pigs campaign purported to to have because turns out it's more profitable to just pander to one side
Here’s the thing though. Just because you might be have the better policies doesn’t mean you’re gonna win outright. Trump won Florida by 4 points, but the state voted to increase their minimum wage to 15 dollars per hour at the same time by double digits. My point is that politics is tribalistic. Even if someone agrees with you more on policy, they will more likely to vote due to party loyalty. Like it or not, Trump almost won re-election, the 2020 race was pretty close.
Yes. You do. Even centrists like Obama and Biden got the Republicans intensely nervous. Rouseff really was treated far harsher than Bolsonaro for far less cause. Etcetera. And you really do have the moderate right make destructive pacts with their demagogic peers.
No. The fringes of the left are very purposefully kept away from power by the left. Where the right often gives their fringes the keys to power or at least tries to appease them the fringe of the left is kept at arms lengths. The Democratic party does not like Sanders, Labour did not like Corbyn, the PVDA is not a fan of the SP.
If the fringes of the left were more powerful than those of the right then Sanders would have been embraced and Trump would have been rejected. But the reverse has happened.
If their name is Ted Cruz and they spend the last few years being a complete demagogue then.....yeah. Yeah he is.
And you're dodging the issues. Most of these actions were aimed against the Trumpist demagogic brand of the Republican party. Or what they perceived to be that. Not against conservatism as a whole.
Which kinda suggest that the left seems willing to make a coalition with the right. That they are willing to work together. And when he had a Torrie majority he didn't suddenly get deemed as completely illegitimate.
We're not talking about Trump though. We're talking about the conventional right. You need to come up with examples of actions against Bush, McCain, Romney, Reagan. Actual right wingers, not demagogic mutations hijacking the right. And I don't think Trump going out of his way to act as suspiciously as possible and getting in trouble about it reflects all that poorly on the left. Especially when there really was Russian interference, and Trump really did get so spooked about people looking into it that he felt he had to commit obstruction of justice.
So they turned to what fascist regime again?
So why are Biden and so many others scared to call them out?
No as people have said there is no difference in their eyes. The congress shooter didn't target specifically the Trump supporting republicans. As for demagogue like, no it's personalities people feel they can trust, it's how Obama got elected too.
No really it was with the Liberal Democrats who at the time were far more centrist.
Also he didn't get deemed illegitimate because until Corbyn took power Labour was in shambles anyway with Ed Milliband tripping over himself constantly.
Bush was widely mocked, I literally have a George W Whoosh the windy old gassbag farting noise soft toy thing in my room lol.
As for Romney,
Not exactly an inaccurate portrayal of him in that video lol.
Hell how about another.
It's not so much Hijacking it as changing it which was in part steering it away from the old religious side more and shouldn't that be seen as a good thing? Oh right no because then questions start being asked about "Ok so not the religious lot have lot power why aren't the Democrats seeing more progress happening"
Also Trump wasn't being suspicious, it's literally being shown people lied and add in some lovely spin into the picture and it was easy to point Trump a certain way.
Come now. You know the answer. Don't play coy. You know that they made a pact with Trump.
Are they? Sanders pretty routinely deemed more radical than he actually is.
Methinks its due to him considering the Republican guilty of crimes because it sold its soul to the demagogic underbelly at that party. But ultimately its not particularly relevant because that's just a fringe idiot, not the left as a whole.
Doesn't matter. Cameron wasn't the first conservative PM that labour witnesses. It wasn't a unique quirk based on a unique situation that they didn't demonize him. Its just how politics as a whole is supposed to function. Labour generally does not treat its rival factions more hostile than the PVDA does the VVD, or the SPD does to the CDU. Its all fairly normal politics.
Mockery is not condemnation, its not fear and its not hysteria. Its just part of ''the game''. I'm sure many Democrats didn't exactly sympathize with Romney but the general sentiment wasn't that he was particularly evil.
No the demagogues within the right tend to have very strong alliances with the religious side of their parties. Trump too in no way challenged the old religious side. He was more the enemy of any ''moderate'' Republican and steered the party to complete radicalization. And that's a bad thing.
Yes he was. Publicly ''joking'' Russia should go hack his rival, having his kids meet up with Putin's envoys, repeatedly hiring cronies with ties to Russia and firing the rat that got him elected to protect himself. He even said it today, that he felt he had to fire Comey to protect himself.
Sting may be part of my favorite band of all time, but he was only half right.
The right has never been "counter culture" or edgy/offensive. They've always based their opposition with the goal of getting society to embrace THEIR authoritarianism. The Cult of Trump and previously well established Republicans suddenly being labelled RINOs because Trump said so only proves it.
It's religious fanaticism. The right are the party of "God". They are american jihadists.
One time in 2007, I went to New York for a day and on multiple occasions ran into protest groups on random street corners comparing Bush to Hitler.
Well. Bush wasn't as bad as Hitler. He didn't do massive camps for ethnoc extermination. But he did a fuck load of war crimes based on nonsense he made up.
Edit: While I recognize that Stalin probably wasn't as evil as Hitler, there comes a point when the number of unnecessary and innocent deaths just make the nuances white noise. There is only so much blood you can drown in. Bush might be on the lower end of this scale but the amount of blood on his hands would fill the White House
And the difference become white noise as your airways fill up with blood.
Which is to say: I wouldn't say they're the same... but after a few hundred thousand deaths, it's hard to find any of it acceptable
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