Funny events in anti-woke world

tstorm823

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Firstly when your own proclaimed ideology amounts to slapping pink triangles on homosexuals in order to warn off potential landlords or employers, maybe you should consider shutting the fuck up whenever the discussion veers towards notions of equity or equality. That's one thing. Secondly, also consider shutting the fuck up when your babbling about societies you don't know the first thing about, in particular if you imagine "tribal tribal" or "monarchies" as "less structured" than yours (in terms of kinship, politics, trade, spirituality, whatever). Lastly, seeking example in acephalous organisations (with their strict rules against differential accumulation, against consuming your own production instead of distributing it, against the very notion of command and coercitive orders outside tactical military campaigns, etc) is probably the poorest possible attempt to boast about your own system's moral superiority. Generally speaking, maybe you should someday consider unplugging your nose from your bible for 10 seconds, before emitting any further judgement on the world that surrounds you. If that's an option at all.

Seriously. The irony of evolutionists who haven't evolved since the 19th century.
A) Yelling at me for unrelated and inaccurate things about me is not a good look.
B) Name a multi-ethnic acephalous society from any point in human history up to the present day. Good luck.
 

Ag3ma

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I firmly disagree with this. It is often suggested the oldest sign of civilization is a broken and healed femur, as prior to that if you broke that, you were dead before it healed, since you couldn't walk and nobody was going to protect you. Do you want the hunter-gatherer lifestyle where every resource is the tragedy of the commons? Is that the more equitable age? How about the time of tribalism? The millennia of monarchies? Do you really imagine people with less structure were just more equitable?
The tragedy of the commons is quasi-mythical. It originated as a hypothetical idea to demonstrate the potential advantage of private ownership, but in reality there's no particular evidence it was (if you'll forgive the pun) common in reality. The reason for this is that the theory did not consider that in reality, and even in primitive societies, commons tended to be managed by the community.

I think I might like you to explain a little more precisely how you mean "equitable". Because to me, it suggests a sort of equality or impartiality. If in prehistory someone got abandoned because their femur broke, well, that's everyone. One might note that in the USA until recently, around 30% of the population had heavily insufficient healthcare, and the middle classes live about 10 years longer than the working classes, plus with better quality of life for the years they live.

I'm not sure how viable that femur claim is either. After all, it is very well observed that numerous species such as dogs, chimpanzees and elephants try to treat or support injured fellows. One might argue that a broken and healed femur is more likely to be a symbol of a sedentary society.
 
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tstorm823

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The tragedy of the commons is quasi-mythical. It originated as a hypothetical idea to demonstrate the potential advantage of private ownership, but in reality there's no particular evidence it was (if you'll forgive the pun) common in reality. The reason for this is that the theory did not consider that in reality, and even in primitive societies, commons tended to be managed by the community.

I think I might like you to explain a little more precisely how you mean "equitable". Because to me, it suggests a sort of equality or impartiality. If in prehistory someone got abandoned because their femur broke, well, that's everyone. One might note that in the USA until recently, around 30% of the population had heavily insufficient healthcare, and the middle classes live about 10 years longer than the working classes, plus with better quality of life for the years they live.

I'm not sure how viable that femur claim is either. After all, it is very well observed that numerous species such as dogs, chimpanzees and elephants try to treat or support injured fellows. One might argue that a broken and healed femur is more likely to be a symbol of a sedentary society.
I don't think its reasonable to suggests commons were managed by nomadic communities. And I think when resources diminished, wars happened. A lot. There is no reality where people just casually shared everything perfectly for long periods of time.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I don't think its reasonable to suggests commons were managed by nomadic communities. And I think when resources diminished, wars happened. A lot. There is no reality where people just casually shared everything perfectly for long periods of time.
Except they were. Crops were constantly cultivated by nomadic cultures, who would rotate around to whatever stash of berries for grains they'd cultivated for later harvest.

Anything past that is just "the world cannot be better, stop advocating we try and make it better"
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I mean, it makes sense: why *not* plant the seeds of the food you're eating as you're traveling around? The plants will largely take care of themselves after all
 
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Ag3ma

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I don't think its reasonable to suggests commons were managed by nomadic communities. And I think when resources diminished, wars happened. A lot. There is no reality where people just casually shared everything perfectly for long periods of time.
There are very few nomadic hunter-gatherer societies left these days. However, evidence from what we have - Native Americans until their repression, Amazonian tribes, etc. suggest groups tended to hold a fairly wide terrain of which they would only occupying a part at any one time, and move round to avoid damaging areas through overexploitation. This model is also not so different from nomadic pastoralists such the Bedouin and Tuareg, although of course they would classify as agricutural rather than hunter-gatherers.

Undoubtedly, when the resources grew too few, it was likely to result either in conflict or forced migration. And hence why humanity left Africa at all. However, it's very unclear to me that things are really any different these days. What do we think is going on in Israel and Palestine? Iraq and Kuwait in the 90s? What's going in the South China Sea (albeit not reaching lethal conflict yet)? What do we think colonial and imperial wars were / are? What about modern superpowers using conflict to maintain political and economic control of strategic resource and trade areas, or civil violence which is often centred around national resource distribution?

But what I can assure you is that it was very unlikely hunter-gatherer communities had a class of people who could sit in the prehistory version of palaces living lives of extreme luxury and leisure whilst everyone around them slogged away day in and day out.
 

tstorm823

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I mean, it makes sense: why *not* plant the seeds of the food you're eating as you're traveling around? The plants will largely take care of themselves after all
1) Trapping eels isn't cultivating, though it is a cool story.
2) Using the resources, even building infrastructure to do so, wasn't the point of contention. The contention was managing. See below.
They would only occupy a part at any one time, and move round to avoid damaging areas through overexploitation.
You mean they moved when the resources ran thin. A region would naturally have insufficient resources to support people long before ecosystems were permanently destroyed. They ran low on food and just moved somewhere else.
 

Ag3ma

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You mean they moved when the resources ran thin. A region would naturally have insufficient resources to support people long before ecosystems were permanently destroyed. They ran low on food and just moved somewhere else.
No, I don't.

I forget which group it was (somewhere in Africa) but they had their land divided into defined areas, and moved from one area to the next each year, because the time it took to do a full cycle of all their regions was the time taken for full regrowth from their last visit. This isn't just moving on when resources were depleted, it's a primitive but planned and effective form of land/resource management.

Of course, primitive peoples also carried out infanticide: this frequently appears to have existed to keep populations sustainable. This of course is also effectively management of resources, just from another direction.

I wouldn't pretend they were perfect at it, but there's plenty of evidence that primitive societies operated forms of stewardship to minimise overexploitation.
 
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Ag3ma

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"Appears to be"? The man is fueled by rage that he is not as loved as he believes he should be. It's no wonder he idolizes Trump.
See also: Kanye West.

He surely doesn't idolise Trump, though: that's not what narcissists do. They might not have empathy, but they can surely identify with and see parallels, and they may be as inclined as anyone to seek validation through others like them.
 

BrawlMan

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Underneath it all, Musk appears to be a psychologically needy egomaniac.
What was your first clue? It was always there from the very beginning. It was just a matter of who's going to acknowledge it openly or not.

"Appears to be"? The man is fueled by rage that he is not as loved as he believes he should be. It's no wonder he idolizes Trump.
What he said.