Funny events in anti-woke world

The Rogue Wolf

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Seriously, she's wearing a skintight sweater dress and high-heeled boots that wouldn't be out of place on a dominatrix. If her voice is such a turn off to them, they can just mute the game whenever she's on screen. I doubt these guys care what a woman has to say anyway.
I mean, it's 2023; just wait for the mod that replaces all her dialogue with moans from porn videos. It's bound to happen.
 

Trunkage

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In pro-Democracy and Free Speech world,

11 people, including 2 Dem MP arrested for protesting in Florida


3 Dems face expulsion from the Chamber after protest in Tennessee

Can you smell the Freedom (TM and CP)
 

BrawlMan

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tstorm823

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Directly from the whistle-blower complaint; "The President also praised Ukraine's Prosecutor General, Mr. Yuriy Lutsenko, and suggested that Mr. Zelenskyy might want to keep him in his position".
We have the transcript of that call. Trump does praise a Prosecutor in Ukraine, not naming them specifically. He said:
"I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair."

Why would he be talking about the current Prosecutor General (at the time) Lutsenko in the past tense? Particularly when the story in the news at the time was Biden demanding the former Prosecutor General Victor Shokin be removed from his position in 2016, it makes way more sense to read that bit as being about Shokin getting canned, being "shut down" in the past, then to read that as talking about Lutsenko who hadn't been replaced yet.
...Seemingly either forgetting what circumstantial actually means, or forgetting the particularly extreme position you took on it.
I think you're forgetting the position you're in. This conversation was about Thomas Johnson. We have record of the user Jesus (A) referring to the exact research Johnson worked on, claiming to live in the same area the Johnson lives in, claiming the have the same academic background as Johnson, and posting about the same incredibly fringe and generally unsavory topics as Johnson did publicly under his own name at the same time, and you're taking the position that evidence is circumstantial and therefore not enough to take him off the standards for care of children. The evidence is circumstantial, it requires you to make the most obvious inferences to reach the conclusion that it is the same person. The most obvious interpretation of the Trump-Zelenskyy call is not blackmail. Most of the topics were brought up by Zelenskyy, said in an amicable way, without even implied consequences for what would be done after. When you read the transcript and think "well, Trump didn't threaten him there, so he must have done it through Giuliani previously!" that isn't circumstantial evidence. Trump not blackmailing Zelenskyy in that call is not circumstantial evidence of blackmail because you choose to interpret the conversation that way.
 

tstorm823

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I have not played the remake of this, but I've played the original on like 5 different platforms, and I do have a reasonable complaint about how they employed their censorship in at least the VR version. The original dialogue when Luis meets Ashley goes like this:
SERA: Leon.

SERA: Small world, eh? (looks at Ashley's chest) Well, I see that the President's equipped his daughter with ballistics too.

ASHLEY: How rude! And I don't believe there's any relevance with my figure and my standing. Who are you?

SERA: Ho ho, excuse me, Your Highness. Perhaps the young lady might want to introduce herself first before asking someone his
name?

ASHLEY: Her name's Ashley Graham, the President's daughter.
In the VR version, they (probably rightfully) decided to cut out the sexual harassment, but to do so, they just snipped out those two lines, so instead it goes.
SERA: Leon.

SERA: Small world, eh?

ASHLEY: Who are you?

SERA: Ho ho, excuse me, Your Highness. Perhaps the young lady might want to introduce herself first before asking someone his
name?

ASHLEY: Her name's Ashley Graham, the President's daughter.
Where the "Who are you?" and self-introduction are said in an annoyed tone. But since they took out the dialogue where he commented on her boobs, the annoyance is unjustified, and that line also established that Luis knew who she was already, so her answer to who she was comes across like "don't you know who I am? I'm the president's daughter." Like, they took out the boob comment, and instead made Ashley the least likeable character possible for that one scene.

I assume (or at least hope) that for the remake, they rewrote that scene entirely, cause that scene without those lines is more jarring than even the stupid refrigerator zombie.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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In pro-Democracy and Free Speech world,

11 people, including 2 Dem MP arrested for protesting in Florida


3 Dems face expulsion from the Chamber after protest in Tennessee

Can you smell the Freedom (TM and CP)
Weird how this happens. I mean, changing the rules for one election and one election only doesn't have any ulterior motives, right?

 

Cicada 5

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I have not played the remake of this, but I've played the original on like 5 different platforms, and I do have a reasonable complaint about how they employed their censorship in at least the VR version. The original dialogue when Luis meets Ashley goes like this:

In the VR version, they (probably rightfully) decided to cut out the sexual harassment, but to do so, they just snipped out those two lines, so instead it goes.

Where the "Who are you?" and self-introduction are said in an annoyed tone. But since they took out the dialogue where he commented on her boobs, the annoyance is unjustified, and that line also established that Luis knew who she was already, so her answer to who she was comes across like "don't you know who I am? I'm the president's daughter." Like, they took out the boob comment, and instead made Ashley the least likeable character possible for that one scene.

I assume (or at least hope) that for the remake, they rewrote that scene entirely, cause that scene without those lines is more jarring than even the stupid refrigerator zombie.
She's been kidnapped and is being confronted by a stranger whom she doesn't know is trustworthy or not. I wouldn't exactly expect her to be pleasant most of the time in that situation and frankly she's pretty restrained all things considered.
 

Silvanus

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We have the transcript of that call. Trump does praise a Prosecutor in Ukraine, not naming them specifically. He said:
"I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair."
Actually, we don't have the transcript of the call: we have an edited summary released by the White House, an interested party.

I think you're forgetting the position you're in. This conversation was about Thomas Johnson. We have record of the user Jesus (A) referring to the exact research Johnson worked on, claiming to live in the same area the Johnson lives in, claiming the have the same academic background as Johnson, and posting about the same incredibly fringe and generally unsavory topics as Johnson did publicly under his own name at the same time, and you're taking the position that evidence is circumstantial and therefore not enough to take him off the standards for care of children. The evidence is circumstantial, it requires you to make the most obvious inferences to reach the conclusion that it is the same person. The most obvious interpretation of the Trump-Zelenskyy call is not blackmail. Most of the topics were brought up by Zelenskyy, said in an amicable way, without even implied consequences for what would be done after. When you read the transcript and think "well, Trump didn't threaten him there, so he must have done it through Giuliani previously!" that isn't circumstantial evidence. Trump not blackmailing Zelenskyy in that call is not circumstantial evidence of blackmail because you choose to interpret the conversation that way.
"Likely" is a judgement call based on the evidence-- what you consider "likely" in the Trump-Ukraine scandal, I consider insanely convenient and unlikely. What you consider "likely" for Thomas Johnson and 'Jesus', I consider certainly quite possible, but less likely than Trump's involvement in the dodgy pressuring tactics.

What's happened is that you and I have interpreted those circumstances differently. I.e., we have a whistle-blower complaint about a phone call, and an edited summary of the call in question released by the accused party-- you've interpreted the edited summary as providing all pertinent info, and therefore concluded that the whistle-blower complaint is simply wrong and therefore the allegation doesn't count for anything.

...but that relies on your interpretation. Its not demonstrable, it depends on a circumstance-- just like my interpretation does. And that's the nature of circumstantial evidence. It doesn't somehow cease to be circumstantial evidence if you can alternatively explain the circumstances: You can do that with literally all circumstantial evidence, which is what makes it circumstantial.
 

tstorm823

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Actually, we don't have the transcript of the call: we have an edited summary released by the White House, an interested party.
That's a stretch. You do know that there are professionals whose job is is to keep those records, right? It's not like they threw that together afterwards.
Its not demonstrable, it depends on a circumstance-- just like my interpretation does.
Your interpretation has no basis. You did not reach your conclusion from the evidence, you've rewritten the evidence in your mind to match your desired conclusion.
 

Silvanus

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That's a stretch. You do know that there are professionals whose job is is to keep those records, right? It's not like they threw that together afterwards.
Actually, it is: officials familiar with the process noted that the document was likely put together afterwards from notes, and unlikely to be verbatim.


Your interpretation has no basis. You did not reach your conclusion from the evidence, you've rewritten the evidence in your mind to match your desired conclusion.
Let's look at the specific items in dispute here.

1. Giuliani and Lutsenko acted without Trump's approval or knowledge.

- either possibility is perfectly possible. It's not unreasonable to consider the circumstance that an employee would be working on behalf of his employer, when his actions are specifically of benefit to his employer. It's also not unreasonable to believe Giuliani worked alone, being the self-interested party he is. Neither is proven and both are reasonably possible. Depends on... circumstance.

2. The call definitely doesn't mention Lutsenko.

- Eh, not for certain, because we don't have a definite, demonstrable transcript. We have the word of the whistle-blower, against a non-verbatim report by the White House. You can choose to take one at face value and fully dismiss the other if you like; that involves a judgement call. So: circumstance.

Truth is, you've gone far beyond merely claiming it didn't happen. The idea that even circumstantial evidence doesn't exist is utterly brazen BS.
 
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Schadrach

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I mean, it's 2023; just wait for the mod that replaces all her dialogue with moans from porn videos. It's bound to happen.
In all seriousness, it's won't be long after PC release before there's a mod that swaps her back to a skirt and redoes the changed dialog to match the original. Any time a remake, update or pathc changes stuff because someone might hypothetically get offended by the original like that there's always a restoration mod in short order.

Hell, there was even a restoration mod for that time Obsidian patched out a short poem by a Kickstarter backer from a grave epitaph in Pillars of Eternity because someone got a bug up their butt over it. Obsidian replaced it with a different epitaph poem by the backer, which claimed he was killed because a poem he wrote was misread. This in turn angered mostly the same people, but got less traction the second time around. Super simple to make happen, mod was released literally within an hour of the patch to remove it going live.

One of the few exceptions being Zanki Zero, which was niche enough that I imagine anyone determined enough to play it without the minor changes would just play the JP version, which had a 90% complete English translation patch before there was an official English release.
 

Trunkage

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In all seriousness, it's won't be long after PC release before there's a mod that swaps her back to a skirt and redoes the changed dialog to match the original. Any time a remake, update or pathc changes stuff because someone might hypothetically get offended by the original like that there's always a restoration mod in short order.

Hell, there was even a restoration mod for that time Obsidian patched out a short poem by a Kickstarter backer from a grave epitaph in Pillars of Eternity because someone got a bug up their butt over it. Obsidian replaced it with a different epitaph poem by the backer, which claimed he was killed because a poem he wrote was misread. This in turn angered mostly the same people, but got less traction the second time around. Super simple to make happen, mod was released literally within an hour of the patch to remove it going live.

One of the few exceptions being Zanki Zero, which was niche enough that I imagine anyone determined enough to play it without the minor changes would just play the JP version, which had a 90% complete English translation patch before there was an official English release.
Its niche enough for me to not have heard of it
 

tstorm823

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Actually, it is: officials familiar with the process noted that the document was likely put together afterwards from notes, and unlikely to be verbatim.
Stenographers not being a direct recording is not the same thing as accusing the White House of doctoring to record.

Your arguement is "the evidence doesn't disprove the accusation made". That's not evidence.
 

Silvanus

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Stenographers not being a direct recording is not the same thing as accusing the White House of doctoring to record.
They're not stenographers. All familiar accounts describe them as note-takers, and not a verbatim transcript. You've shifted it intentionally to make your circumstance more likely-- and the fact you felt the need to do so suggests you know that otherwise you're relying on a circumstance, just like me.

Your arguement is "the evidence doesn't disprove the accusation made". That's not evidence.
No, my argument is that there are clearly circumstantial reasons to conclude either way. Anyone approaching this honestly, on either side, acknowledges this.

The /evidence/ isn't merely picking holes in your evidence. The /evidence/ is whistle-blower testimony, employee-employer relationship, obvious political gain, Lutsenko's statement etc. All of it circumstantial.
 
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Schadrach

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Its niche enough for me to not have heard of it
I'd literally only heard of it because it's by Spike Chunsoft, creators of Danganronpa and the Zero Escape games (same reason I'd heard of Death Come True and World's End Club - those wre developed by Too Kyo, which was founded by former Spike Chunsoft employees from the Danganronpa team).

The list of stuff changed in it was pretty minor too, a few animation frames and camera angles, and making the bonding/bedtime events not available for any given character 25% of the time (the main cast are all rapidly aging clones you replace with new, usually slightly improved clones that inherit their former selves memories - newly cloned characters are kids, and live a total of 13 days before dying of old age - versions outside JP do not allow the bedtime/bonding events with child characters, the only impact age has on those events is which character art is used).
 

tstorm823

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They're not stenographers. All familiar accounts describe them as note-takers, and not a verbatim transcript. You've shifted it intentionally to make your circumstance more likely-- and the fact you felt the need to do so suggests you know that otherwise you're relying on a circumstance, just like me.
They're professionals. Multiple professional record keepers. You're treating them flippantly.
The /evidence/ isn't merely picking holes in your evidence. The /evidence/ is whistle-blower testimony, employee-employer relationship, obvious political gain, Lutsenko's statement etc. All of it circumstantial.
Potential motives and speculation are not evidence. You seem to think that because you can suspect Trump plausibly that means there's evidence. I could plausibly support the idea that you own a refrigerator, that doesn't mean I have any evidence to back that claim. You can speculate all you want about how you think Trump would benefit, or how he could be connected, none of that is evidence of the crime you believe was committed. You can believe it's plausible that Trump threatened Zelenskyy with the military funding if he didn't go after Biden for lots of reason, you still have no evidence that actually occurred. You've got all the reasons why you would suspect someone of being the killer, but nobody was killed.