Funny events in anti-woke world

[Hades]

That didn't happen, and you're proving yourself deranged...

But also, there are people on the internet who think Trump only hasn't declared martial law and imprisoned all his enemies because he's waiting to do it symbolically on Hitler's birthday, so lets not get out of hand with the "every prediction coming true" thing.

I like how you(and Phoenix) seem to imply that Trump trying everything from pressuring his vice president to crown him, inventing fictional stories of mass fraud, and even violence in order to become an illigitimate president was just the normal, healthy and totally democratic way of doing things.

If Trump had succeeded, if deceit, abuse of power and a stacked court would get Trump into office without a mandate, if winning the election is entirely optional when it comes to becoming president then how much of American democracy would have been left? And if Biden had abused his office to put Harris in office despite her clear loss would people finding that undemocratic still be ''deranged''?, or would that suddenly be a different story?

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

At what point does anything this administration does become fascist to you? What would it take? Or does this all seem completely normal to you?

The definition of "fascism" is "when the government does something Phoenixmgs doesn't like".

 

[tstorm823]

I like how you(and Phoenix) seem to imply that Trump trying everything from pressuring his vice president to crown him, inventing fictional stories of mass fraud, and even violence in order to become an illigitimate president was just the normal, healthy and totally democratic way of doing things.

If Trump had succeeded, if deceit, abuse of power and a stacked court would get Trump into office without a mandate, if winning the election is entirely optional when it comes to becoming president then how much of American democracy would have been left? And if Biden had abused his office to put Harris in office despite her clear loss would people finding that undemocratic still be ''deranged''?, or would that suddenly be a different story?

The Democratic Party in 2020 cheated in my state. They bribed people to vote, kicked their competition off the ballot, and rearranged the voting places to make them convenient for Democrats and inconvenient for Republicans. And you're upset because Trump talks about things without doing them.

Because he was stopped, not because he didn't try.

He tried to win the election, that's not a crime. Recounts and legal motions are part of the election process.

We've had Trump talk about annexing Canada, lying about immigrants eating pets, starting pointless trade wars with the US's biggest trading partners, blaming DEI for plane crashes, saying that he wants the kind of generals Hitler had, calling Zelensky a tyrant and then lying that he never said that mere days later and calling criticism of him illegal.

We went over the DEI connection to air traffic control here. Did you try the evaluation that was designed to make controller hiring more equitable? It's really dumb.

He didn't say he wanted generals like Hitler. That didn't happen.

He didn't call Zelensky a tyrant, the word was dictator, and he didn't deny it, he played dumb about it without denying it. "Did I say that? I can't believe I said that" does not mean "I didn't say that". Trump's entire shtick is being nice to anyone who's nice to him and a colossal jerk to anyone who isn't, subject to change the instant the person changes their tone, with neither grudges nor loyalty. Putin was nice to Trump, so Trump played nice. Zelensky didn't like that and said bad things about Trump. Trump fired back at Zelensky. Zelensky changed his tone. Trump repaid in kind. It's really not a complicated system. If you go on tv and display malice towards Trump, Trump roasts you back. If you call him great and say you want to work with him, it's all water under the bridge in an instant.

He didn't say criticism of him is illegal, he said that the mainstream media coordinating explicitly to give him bad press and Democrats good press should be illegal. And it was illegal for more than half of Trump's life, so it should not be that surprising a thought. I was under the impression that people of your persuasion wanted the fairness doctrine back.

 

[Hades]

The Democratic Party in 2020 cheated in my state. They bribed people to vote, kicked their competition off the ballot, and rearranged the voting places to make them convenient for Democrats and inconvenient for Republicans. And you're upset because Trump talks about things without doing them.

What are you talking about? Trump did plenty of things. He did put pressure on Pence to illigally crown him president. You can’t give Trump credit for Pence (for once in his career) doing the right thing in direct opposition to Trump. Nor can you credit Trump with an ejection official not “finding votes”

And Trump was of course the source of the fraud nonsense, the one who invited the crowd and incited them

 

[Phoenixmgs]

At what point does anything this administration does become fascist to you? What would it take? Or does this all seem completely normal to you?




Well, not that. That's rightwing fashmedia calling a protesters actions deranged. You can see how that is not a scientific or medical diagnosis can't you?

What is Mental Illness?

Learn about mental illness, diagnosis and treatment

www.psychiatry.org

When they do something actually fascist... You gonna tell Jews that lived through the Holocaust and Hitler's time that you are currently living under a fascist regime?

So putting a swastika on a Jewish person's car is not deranged?

I like how you(and Phoenix) seem to imply that Trump trying everything from pressuring his vice president to crown him, inventing fictional stories of mass fraud, and even violence in order to become an illigitimate president was just the normal, healthy and totally democratic way of doing things.

If Trump had succeeded, if deceit, abuse of power and a stacked court would get Trump into office without a mandate, if winning the election is entirely optional when it comes to becoming president then how much of American democracy would have been left? And if Biden had abused his office to put Harris in office despite her clear loss would people finding that undemocratic still be ''deranged''?, or would that suddenly be a different story?

And the democrats hounding Trump for 3 years over the Russia collusion lie and trying to kick him out of the presidency over that and then removing Trump from ballots this last election is democracy?

 

[Hades]

And the democrats hounding Trump for 3 years over the Russia collusion lie and trying to kick him out of the presidency over that and then removing Trump from ballots this last election is democracy?

Several things to consider
-Trump getting removed from office for his misdeeds cancels out no election result. He got to be president, and him having lost that position would have been the result of him abusing that office. And had Trump been kicked out the office would have gone to Pence. The 2016 results would have been uphelt. This in contrast to Trump's antics in 2020 which was all about getting to remain in power despite the election result.
-You're getting your controversies mixed up. The impeachments were over blackmailing Zelensky to intervene in the election, and the coup. The Russia investigation did not lead to an impeachment, merely to a ton of Trump's cronies getting locked up.
-Doing a coup is about the most valid there is to be removed from the ballot. In fact its to America's eternal shame Trump was even allowed to run again.
-Had it been some devious conspiracy to bar Trump from running that trial would have happened before the election, not after it when he could strangle it upon a win. If anything that whole affair shows that Trump was handled with kids gloves a curtesy to his aristocrat status.

 

[Chimpzy]

French MEP says US should give back Statue of Liberty

Raphaël Glucksmann, a center-left member of the European Parliament, has strongly criticized President Donald Trump's radical change of US policy on the war in Ukraine.

www.lemonde.fr

 

[dreng3]

This fascist enough for any of the doubters on the forum?

White House denies defying judge's order over deportations to El Salvador

An order to halt the removal of 261 people came too late and had "no legal basis" anyway, the White House says.

www.bbc.com

 

[Agema]

Modern nations aren't that different from historical powers; otherwise, the Azeris wouldn't take land from Armenia, and Russia wouldn't take land from Ukraine.

They're modern nations in the sense that they exist in the current era. They're not necessarily modern in terms of attitude and outlook.

Nationalism in the 18th century created the principle that nations (i.e. ethnic/cultural groups) should be represented by their own state. That was a lot of what led to the collapse of empires, because they ended up full of peoples who increasingly thought of their states as illegitimate occupiers. The next development was really WW2, through which many countries decided that countries should not attempt to expand their territory by force as this was a major cause of mass death.

But the UN was really a European / North American creation, and that was the prevailing attitude of European and North American states. Certainly, there were a ton of countries that never really bought into that whole "stop trying to steal other people's land" ideal, they were just expected to play by the rules. Nevertheless, in Europe and - at least until recently - the USA, the idea of stealing land by force remains heavily disapproved of.

 

[Agema]

What are you talking about? Trump did plenty of things.

The real "Trump derangement syndrome" is the shift in Republican beliefs, values and arguments they've carried out to defend orange god.

Let's be absolutely plain here: there's no reason Trump couldn't be shoving social and political undesirables into gas chambers in a few years, and a load of them will be explaining how reasonable it is for him to do so, or that the Democrats did something or other so it's fine or "both sides" or whatever. Honestly, I think there's a good chance Tstorm could be one of them busy helping roll out the excuses.

That's how it works, after all. Weimar Germany to mass murder in under 10 years, and I'm sure millions of Germans also never imagined they'd be kind of okay with mass murder back in the early 1930s. When the dam cracks, it can collapse awful quickly.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

The real "Trump derangement syndrome" is the shift in Republican beliefs, values and arguments they've carried out to defend orange god.

It's weird seeing the people who would have eagerly burned down their homes out of spite if they heard that Biden was going to pay them a visit tell us that we're all being "crazy" worrying about what Trump is doing.

 

[Cicada 5]

He didn't say criticism of him is illegal, he said that the mainstream media coordinating explicitly to give him bad press and Democrats good press should be illegal. And it was illegal for more than half of Trump's life, so it should not be that surprising a thought. I was under the impression that people of your persuasion wanted the fairness doctrine back.

Trump: "And I believe that CNN and MSDNC, who literally write 97.6% bad about me are political arms of the Democrat Party and in my opinion they're really corrupt and they're illegal, what they do is illegal,"

Because if people say bad things about Trump, it must be a lie and a conspiracy, rather than just reporting accurately what he says and does.

And by the way, despite what Trump and other rightwing whiners claim, the left doesn't have nearly as much control over mass media as is believed. Fox News is the most watched cable news network in the US. If anything, the left's grasp on media has only weakened further in light of Trump's second term.

The mainstream media isn't colluding with the democrats to slander Trump. The mainstream media has been gassing up Trump for more than a decade.

 

[Cicada 5]

He didn't say he wanted generals like Hitler. That didn't happen.

It did according to his former chief of staff.

He didn't call Zelensky a tyrant, the word was dictator, and he didn't deny it, he played dumb about it without denying it. "Did I say that? I can't believe I said that" does not mean "I didn't say that". Trump's entire shtick is being nice to anyone who's nice to him and a colossal jerk to anyone who isn't, subject to change the instant the person changes their tone, with neither grudges nor loyalty. Putin was nice to Trump, so Trump played nice. Zelensky didn't like that and said bad things about Trump. Trump fired back at Zelensky. Zelensky changed his tone. Trump repaid in kind. It's really not a complicated system. If you go on tv and display malice towards Trump, Trump roasts you back. If you call him great and say you want to work with him, it's all water under the bridge in an instant.

So blaming Ukraine for starting the war doesn't count as Trump throwing insults first?

 

[BrawlMan]

Everyone Thinks America Is Insane
​

 

[tstorm823]

What are you talking about? Trump did plenty of things. He did put pressure on Pence to illigally crown him president. You can’t give Trump credit for Pence (for once in his career) doing the right thing in direct opposition to Trump. Nor can you credit Trump with an ejection official not “finding votes”

You probably don't even realize that these things are inferences and hearsay that you take as gospel truth.

If anything, the left's grasp on media has only weakened further in light of Trump's second term.

This is the only true statement in your post, though arguably with cause and effect reversed. These outlets have destroyed themselves trying to carry the Democratic Party instead of informing their audience with actual reporting.

The mainstream media isn't colluding with the democrats to slander Trump. The mainstream media has been gassing up Trump for more than a decade.

Are you aware of how many of the people running those companies have literally worked for Democratic campaigns? There are records that they gassed up Trump specifically because they thought he would lose the election to the Democrats. It's not a secret.

It did according to his former chief of staff.

So blaming Ukraine for starting the war doesn't count as Trump throwing insults first?

His former chief of staff can lie like anyone else.

Trump and Zelensky started the back and forth long before that. One could say it started with Trump claiming he could end the war in a day, the it's certainly more personal when Zelensky fires back that Trump doesn't know how to end the war, all of which was many months before what you're looking at.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Several things to consider
-Trump getting removed from office for his misdeeds cancels out no election result. He got to be president, and him having lost that position would have been the result of him abusing that office. And had Trump been kicked out the office would have gone to Pence. The 2016 results would have been uphelt. This in contrast to Trump's antics in 2020 which was all about getting to remain in power despite the election result.
-You're getting your controversies mixed up. The impeachments were over blackmailing Zelensky to intervene in the election, and the coup. The Russia investigation did not lead to an impeachment, merely to a ton of Trump's cronies getting locked up.
-Doing a coup is about the most valid there is to be removed from the ballot. In fact its to America's eternal shame Trump was even allowed to run again.
-Had it been some devious conspiracy to bar Trump from running that trial would have happened before the election, not after it when he could strangle it upon a win. If anything that whole affair shows that Trump was handled with kids gloves a curtesy to his aristocrat status.

My fault on the impeachment, they did hound Trump for about 3 years on the RussiaGate BS that was a lie from the start. Trump didn't do a coup... If he actually did a coup, why didn't they actually charge him with doing said coup? The NY DA actually ran her campaign that she was gonna get Trump and then they completely made up a new way to get a felony conviction. If Trump does this kinda stuff, you all say he's a fascist and Hitler but the democrats can do it and get a complete pass? And how is Trump getting a slap on the wrist for things when he is literally the only person to be charged and convicted in a the manner he was convicted? You do realize basically all my arguments are essentially "why the hell is anyone voting for either of these parties, right?"

This fascist enough for any of the doubters on the forum?

White House denies defying judge's order over deportations to El Salvador

An order to halt the removal of 261 people came too late and had "no legal basis" anyway, the White House says.

www.bbc.com

The people were already deported prior to the ruling...

Trump: "And I believe that CNN and MSDNC, who literally write 97.6% bad about me are political arms of the Democrat Party and in my opinion they're really corrupt and they're illegal, what they do is illegal,"

Tim Walz effectively said the same thing but I don't see any of you complaining when the democrats do the same thing.

 

[Gergar12]

They're modern nations in the sense that they exist in the current era. They're not necessarily modern in terms of attitude and outlook.

Nationalism in the 18th century created the principle that nations (i.e. ethnic/cultural groups) should be represented by their own state. That was a lot of what led to the collapse of empires, because they ended up full of peoples who increasingly thought of their states as illegitimate occupiers. The next development was really WW2, through which many countries decided that countries should not attempt to expand their territory by force as this was a major cause of mass death.

But the UN was really a European / North American creation, and that was the prevailing attitude of European and North American states. Certainly, there were a ton of countries that never really bought into that whole "stop trying to steal other people's land" ideal, they were just expected to play by the rules. Nevertheless, in Europe and - at least until recently - the USA, the idea of stealing land by force remains heavily disapproved of.

Europe isn't the majority population on Earth. The US is a liberal nation-state/empire depending on who you talk to, but even they are on a planet full of nations that want to maintain and increase their power. Many people including many liberals, intellectuals, etc don't like this, realists like me unless they are rich or politically powerful don't like this either we just aren't naive about it. Also even suppose liberal states like Canada want 100 million Canadians, and Europe wants a bigger population. I don't see this as we have to maintain pensions if you want to reform pensions you can find a better taxation policy, you can cut benefits, you can stop benefits from impacting the rich, etc. It's because their leaders know the less power you have the more you're a target for a future or current expansion-based power say the US or Russia from invading you for X Y Z reasons(resources, land, and even geographic safety.

 

[Agema]

Europe isn't the majority population on Earth.

Europe's population isn't the issue we were discussing, though.

We were talking about whether European states want to conquer their neighbours, or whether their people like any nations conquering their neighbours. With few exceptions, the answer is "No".

 

[Gergar12]

Europe's population isn't the issue we were discussing, though.

We were talking about whether European states want to conquer their neighbours, or whether their people like any nations conquering their neighbours. With few exceptions, the answer is "No".

That will get them killed in the long run. They need to get Turkey to join them, and they need Russian land/possibly people to bolster their population's consumption. They cannot rely on their non-existing navies to guard their trade interests forever.

 

[Kwak]

If this is not a mental illness, than what is?

This is.