Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Silvanus

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I just gave you a straightforward answer, it's like the birthrate for example. Multiple factors go into it. There is no single metric that answers why a game is more of an ESG-run, western, socially liberal, AAA game with ugly faces that aren't geometrically symmetric, and or are overweight. Bonus points if they are the protagonist.
There's no metric because this is a muddled mess of aimless grievance, not anything meaningful.

Sweet Baby Inc. is a relatively innocuous consultancy that's been involved in some fucking great games, including Spiderman 2 and Alan Wake 2, and the "outrage" is manufactured right-wing culture war dogshit aimed at manipulating you.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Hey, remember when Uncharted: Drake's Fortune came out in 2007 and people got outraged at Naughty Dog over Elena not looking like Ashelin from Jak3?

Oh right, you don't, because the attention/outrage economy didn't exist yet and hadn't turned people fucking stupid.
 
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Gergar12

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Things exist in the real world. Some games show things from real world existing.

So simple, even an infant can understand.
Well in that case let the markets decide. if they/you want Ubisoft, Fable, EA games, COD vote with your wallet, and buy them.

I on the other hand will buy moddable games, Korean games, Chinese Gachas, Capcom Games, and Square Enix Games.
 

Gergar12

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There's no metric because this is a muddled mess of aimless grievance, not anything meaningful.

Sweet Baby Inc. is a relatively innocuous consultancy that's been involved in some fucking great games, including Spiderman 2 and Alan Wake 2, and the "outrage" is manufactured right-wing culture war dogshit aimed at manipulating you.
This isn't even about Sweet Baby Inc., they are a symptom rather than a cause.

The real enemy is the SG in ESG funds.

I don't even have that much problem with the E in ESG, fix the climate change you and your type of people started Larry Fink. Heck some of the G makes sense. Conflict of interest policies and audit policies make sense. But don't act like having social policies designed to bias one sex, attack 1-2 races, promote the HFCS (High fructose corn syrup) life, and gaslight me into thinking there isn't an appearance, and mental meta/what society deems as the most dynamic/best position isn't a thing.
 

Casual Shinji

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Well in that case let the markets decide. if they/you want Ubisoft, Fable, EA games, COD vote with your wallet, and buy them.

I on the other hand will buy moddable games, Korean games, Chinese Gachas, Capcom Games, and Square Enix Games.
Yeah, I never mentioned any of these companies, or my support for them, so I don't know what you're getting at.

Well no, I'm lying, I know what you're getting at. You think all western games are woke and have (purposefully) ugly faces, and asian games don't. And because I call out that that's bullshit I therefor prefer western games over asian games or something. You do you I guess.

By the way, I think Square Enix faces are flat and unappealing. And hey, that's fine, it's not my cup of tea. I can still enjoy their games regardless of me not going for the mannequin look. There's still plenty of games that have characters that do fit my palette. I'm not going to point an accusatory finger at Square though and claim that because I find them unappealing that they made them ugly on purpose. That would be fucking stupid.
 
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Gergar12

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Yeah, I never mentioned any of these companies, or my support for them, so I don't know what you're getting at.

Well no, I'm lying, I know what you're getting at. You think all western games are woke and have (purposefully) ugly faces, and asian games don't. And because I call out that that's bullshit I therefor prefer western games over asian games or something. You do you I guess.

By the way, I think Square Enix faces are flat and unappealing. And hey, that's fine, it's not my cup of tea. I can still enjoy their games regardless of me not going for the mannequin look. There's still plenty of games that have characters that do fit my palette. I'm not going to point an accusatory finger at Square though and claim that because I find them unappealing that they made them ugly on purpose. That would be fucking stupid.
I said if.
 

thebobmaster

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This isn't even about Sweet Baby Inc., they are a symptom rather than a cause.

The real enemy is the SG in ESG funds.

I don't even have that much problem with the E in ESG, fix the climate change you and your type of people started Larry Fink. Heck some of the G makes sense. Conflict of interest policies and audit policies make sense. But don't act like having social policies designed to bias one sex, attack 1-2 races, promote the HFCS (High fructose corn syrup) life, and gaslight me into thinking there isn't an appearance, and mental meta/what society deems as the most dynamic/best position isn't a thing.

I find it pretty interesting that you equate treating female characters the same as male characters to be enacting "social policies designed to bias one sex". Unless that was a non-sequitur.
 
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Gergar12

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I find it pretty interesting that you equate treating female characters the same as male characters to be enacting "social policies designed to bias one sex". Unless that was a non-sequitur.
No, I meant that Gen X and Baby Boomers who invest the most love feminism and misandry over men. Attacking 1-2 races means hiring DEI hires against Asian and white applicants.

'Gaslight me into thinking there isn't an appearance and mental meta/what society deems as the most dynamic/best position isn't a thing.'

This means progressive organizations like ESG back companies try to go one way, but society and what people want go another, and contradict each other. For example, there is a body positivity movement but fat men, and fat women are of low value in dating for most people as a general rule of thumb(I am not fat, but guys tend to judge women on weight more than women do on men, but that's also changing against men as well), Also height is something else that there is a contradiction to. Short men and somewhat tall women are of low value in the dating market and corporate world. But you wouldn't believe that if you saw progressive media, and ESG-backed social media doing trends like short kings, etc.

Yes, people are different, but people will praise Mental Health Day while seeking people who are mentally well. So it's a contradiction.
 

Satinavian

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This isn't even about Sweet Baby Inc., they are a symptom rather than a cause.

The real enemy is the SG in ESG funds.

I don't even have that much problem with the E in ESG, fix the climate change you and your type of people started Larry Fink. Heck some of the G makes sense. Conflict of interest policies and audit policies make sense. But don't act like having social policies designed to bias one sex, attack 1-2 races, promote the HFCS (High fructose corn syrup) life, and gaslight me into thinking there isn't an appearance, and mental meta/what society deems as the most dynamic/best position isn't a thing.
I don't have a high opinion of SBI, much to the contrary.

That said, this whole argument about how ESG and woke culture warps games and makes them worse is just right wing culture war nonsense. It is extremely rare that those various consultants have any real influence on a game. It can happen, but generally one can assume it does not. Most studios don't even use such vervices in the first place. If some token inclusion takes place it is more likely a result of trying to chase some focus groups or supposed new customer bases. Usually in vain.

And the whole uglyfying thing... Half the time it is just incompetence and the characters were never meant to be ugly. In many other cases the uglyness is extremely questionable in the first place.

Now there would be more to say about revealing outfits/poses etc., but those were always controversial. And if cencorship is made to appease the left wing ESG crowd or rather the right wing puritan one is anyones guess.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Not interested in your amateur analysis.

Where are your sources for the claim that overeating sugar is the sole and direct cause of type 2 diabetes? The sources you provided simply do not say that.

Just say if you can't find any.
It's not my analysis, it's literally what researchers and medical professionals studied.
 

Silvanus

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It's not my analysis, it's literally what researchers and medical professionals studied.
And they didn't draw the conclusion that you did. You haven't provided a single source supporting the actual claim you made.

Where are your sources for the claim that overeating sugar is the sole and direct cause of type 2 diabetes?

Just say if you can't find any.
 

Silvanus

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This isn't even about Sweet Baby Inc., they are a symptom rather than a cause.

The real enemy is the SG in ESG funds.

I don't even have that much problem with the E in ESG, fix the climate change you and your type of people started Larry Fink. Heck some of the G makes sense. Conflict of interest policies and audit policies make sense. But don't act like having social policies designed to bias one sex, attack 1-2 races, promote the HFCS (High fructose corn syrup) life, and gaslight me into thinking there isn't an appearance, and mental meta/what society deems as the most dynamic/best position isn't a thing.
It's not the enemy. All that's happened here is that you've been manipulated by right-wing media outlets into fighting their divide-and-conquer culture war.

Truth is, politics and social themes have always, always, always been present in art. And art is richer for it, because art is supposed to speak to all aspects of our life experience. Some of the products will appeal to your sensibilities, and some won't, but anyone can make and produce art.

But then some developers (and some of the investors) had some values that right-wing media outlets didn't like, so those right-wing media outlets whipped people up to attack specific developers and investors, on the fucking stupid basis that they're "forcing politics into things".

But there's nothing being "forced". People are just making things that reflect their broadly social-liberal values, investors are considering factors aside from the grubby profit motive occasionally, and that upset some ghastly fuckwits.
 

Thaluikhain

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It's not the enemy. All that's happened here is that you've been manipulated by right-wing media outlets into fighting their divide-and-conquer culture war.

Truth is, politics and social themes have always, always, always been present in art. And art is richer for it, because art is supposed to speak to all aspects of our life experience. Some of the products will appeal to your sensibilities, and some won't, but anyone can make and produce art.

But then some developers (and some of the investors) had some values that right-wing media outlets didn't like, so those right-wing media outlets whipped people up to attack specific developers and investors, on the fucking stupid basis that they're "forcing politics into things".

But there's nothing being "forced". People are just making things that reflect their broadly social-liberal values, investors are considering factors aside from the grubby profit motive occasionally, and that upset some ghastly fuckwits.
I was going to recommend you copy and past the first line somewhere, because it bears repeating in a lot of discussions. But then I read the rest and it's no less true for the other lines.
 
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thebobmaster

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No, I meant that Gen X and Baby Boomers who invest the most love feminism and misandry over men. Attacking 1-2 races means hiring DEI hires against Asian and white applicants.

'Gaslight me into thinking there isn't an appearance and mental meta/what society deems as the most dynamic/best position isn't a thing.'

This means progressive organizations like ESG back companies try to go one way, but society and what people want go another, and contradict each other. For example, there is a body positivity movement but fat men, and fat women are of low value in dating for most people as a general rule of thumb(I am not fat, but guys tend to judge women on weight more than women do on men, but that's also changing against men as well), Also height is something else that there is a contradiction to. Short men and somewhat tall women are of low value in the dating market and corporate world. But you wouldn't believe that if you saw progressive media, and ESG-backed social media doing trends like short kings, etc.

Yes, people are different, but people will praise Mental Health Day while seeking people who are mentally well. So it's a contradiction.
OK, it took me a while to reply to this, because I've been trying to think of the words to get my point across in one go. I don't really feel like a full debate, but I also want to make any point I have clear enough where I stand without one.

Your argument seems to be that media should not reflect reality, and should be an ideal that is lived up to. An escape from reality. I have several issues with that concept.

The first is that your version of an escape from reality is one where everyone looks attractive (which generally means women with STONKING GREAT TITS, and men with enough muscles that when they flex, their biceps have their own biceps), where the average protagonist is a grizzled white man with nothing to lose and a gravelly voice spitting out one-liners. That implies that the real world with varying races, body shapes, and so on is worse than one where everyone looks the same, and men are manly men and women are damsels to be saved and "reward" their savior. After all, if it was the other way around, it wouldn't be much of an escape from reality, would it?

The second issue is that media has an influence on expectations. You talk about how society is going a different way from how progressive organizations are trying to go, and there's a contradiction there. You are right, but what you don't seem to be considering is how society decided that short men were less attractive than taller men, that women who are too strong in personality are "bitches". That didn't just come out of the ether. Hell, if you go back to the Victorian era, plump women were considered the hot ticket, because that weight meant that they were able to eat in excess, and therefore were better off financially than a skinny woman who clearly couldn't afford to feed herself properly.

What changed? The perception of what made women attractive. And what could have possibly influenced that perception? Could it be things like Barbie dolls, Hollywood actresses that could lose their roles for gaining too much weight, models that were giving themselves eating disorders to maintain a dangerously slender frame? Media can easily influence how people perceive things in the real world. If we want, for example, people who have mental illnesses to be less stigmatized, having media not stigmatizing them is a very logical place to start. It won't happen overnight, but it has to happen. The only other option is to just shrug, say "that's just the way it is", and having the problem fester. That is not the option I'm willing to accept. If you are pleased with the status quo, that's all well and good, and I won't try to argue that you are wrong for that. I'm not happy with the status quo, however, and welcome efforts to change it.
 

Phoenixmgs

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And they didn't draw the conclusion that you did. You haven't provided a single source supporting the actual claim you made.

Where are your sources for the claim that overeating sugar is the sole and direct cause of type 2 diabetes?

Just say if you can't find any.
Do you not agree that insulin resistance is a required path to diabetes? Do you not agree that the study shows excess sugar causing the liver to produce that causes insulin resistance?
 

Satinavian

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What changed? The perception of what made women attractive. And what could have possibly influenced that perception? Could it be things like Barbie dolls, Hollywood actresses that could lose their roles for gaining too much weight, models that were giving themselves eating disorders to maintain a dangerously slender frame?
I seriously doubt that.

Sure, beauty ideals change all the time. But the media chase trends, they don't make them. Hollywood took slim actresses because slim = beautiful was already established. Sure, media tends to reinforce existing notion by endlessly repeating them or even exaggerating them (like with the models) but that's it.
 

Casual Shinji

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I seriously doubt that.

Sure, beauty ideals change all the time. But the media chase trends, they don't make them. Hollywood took slim actresses because slim = beautiful was already established. Sure, media tends to reinforce existing notion by endlessly repeating them or even exaggerating them (like with the models) but that's it.
If you don't think media sets trends, then who or what does?

Small innocuous example, but I remember every woman getting that stupid Rachel haircut due to the popularity of Friends. Media most certainly sets trends. And chasing trends is a large part of setting those trends, as most people only become aware of trends through media.