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CriticalGaming

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I disagree heavily. I don't care how smart or stupid that people are in QA, proper credit deserves proper credit. Because the game (s) wouldn't have a higher quality without those testers.
Okay but what's proper credit?

Qa get's their names in the game's credits just like everyone else. So I don't really see what the problem is?

Do people want the box to say, "From the QA team that brought you Fallout 76"?

Crunch and an excuse for the developers to treat their QA people like garbage either.
Yeah I have personally never experienced this in my time as QA. Though if it happened I think it was the QA manager on the project that would take the shit from the development staff if there was any shit being slung. Nobody publicly blames QA for a game being shitty, I've never once seen a review that said, "Man the QA team fucking sucked on this one." OR, "Wow good job QA this game is clean." Because QA doesn't really do any of that.

Qa doesn't fix, and they don't create. They see, they report, that's it.
 

BrawlMan

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Okay but what's proper credit?

Qa get's their names in the game's credits just like everyone else. So I don't really see what the problem is?
You should know the answer better than that. Go back and watch the video. I don't care how miniscule, minute, or unnecessary it seems to you, give proper credit where credit is due. Because it wasn't for those kids, most of those games will run like testers. It doesn't matter if it's Japanese or Western.
 

stroopwafel

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I disagree with them on some things. I love both Evil Within games, but I do prefer the second game. I get why he dislikes it, but the little petty insult to the director of the second game was unnecessary. Shinji Mikami stepped down for a reason, and I respect his decision for it. Everyone may not agree, but I get why. There's always a need for new blood.
I loved the first game. I replayed it like 3 times. It's janky and the combat isn't the best but the game has a unique identity and I love the mishmash of 80s horror inspirations and grindhouse atmosphere. Sebastian had that typical offbeat demeanor that Mikami is known for. The story was very enjoyable with some very dark undertones concerning Ruvik but you had to kind of piece it together for yourself. Enemy and creature design was also very creative.

The second game felt like bargain bin The Last of Us to me. Sebastian had a completely differen personality and traded his unique slightly oddball demeanor with that of the generic, washed up white bloke who can't get over the death of his family that we have seen a million times already. Not just that but the entire game hinged on the tired trope of ''muh family'' as the cheap, generic trick for making you somehow 'invest' in the main character. The two antagonists were also the most cliche ridden one-dimensional baddies imaginable where the first one had the highly intriguing Ruvik whose motivation actually made sense in the context of the story. Mobius turned from a sinister co-conspirator into cartoony evilcorp. Backgrounds couldn't be more unimaginative(where the first game was always pushing boundaries) and the enemy designs were also completely generic.

I loved the first game but the sequel was just an uninspired, cliche ridden, generic and just plain boring piece of crap. It's admirable that Mikami was willing to pass on director duties to someone else in the team but unfortunately it was passed on to a talentless hack.
 

laggyteabag

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You should know the answer better than that. Go back and watch the video. I don't care how miniscule, minute, or unnecessary it seems to you, give proper credit where credit is due. Because it wasn't for those kids, most of those games will run like testers. It doesn't matter if it's Japanese or Western.
To be fair to @CriticalGaming here, im still not entirely clear on what exactly you feel like "proper credit" is.

They get paid for doing their jobs, their names show up in the credits, and many studios offer QA testers promotions into development roles.

Admittedly, I can't really be bothered to watch a 24m video of two guys on their sofas having a chat, but what additional credit do you feel like QA testers deserve? It already sounds like they are "credited" about as much as anyone else in any other development role.
 
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BrawlMan

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To be fair to @CriticalGaming here, im still not entirely clear on what exactly you feel like "proper credit" is.

They get paid for doing their jobs, their names show up in the credits, and many studios offer QA testers promotions into development roles.

Admittedly, I can't really be bothered to watch a 24m video of two guys on their sofas having a chat, but what additional credit do you feel like QA testers deserve? It already sounds like they are "credited" about as much as anyone else in any other development role.
That's the issue that Woolie and Pat pointed out. A lot of these guys and gals aren't. Woolie used to be part of playtesting, and he never even got credited even 10% of the time. A lot of the big publishers and some of the medium ones, want their QA testers under the rug, claiming it officially came within the publisher developer himself. Not outside sources. Even if it's within in house, they still won't give proper credit where it's due. That's the point they're both making.
 

BrawlMan

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I loved the first game. I replayed it like 3 times. It's janky and the combat isn't the best but the game has a unique identity and I love the mishmash of 80s horror inspirations and grindhouse atmosphere. Sebastian had that typical offbeat demeanor that Mikami is known for. The story was very enjoyable with some very dark undertones concerning Ruvik but you had to kind of piece it together for yourself. Enemy and creature design was also very creative.

The second game felt like bargain bin The Last of Us to me. Sebastian had a completely differen personality and traded his unique slightly oddball demeanor with that of the generic, washed up white bloke who can't get over the death of his family that we have seen a million times already. Not just that but the entire game hinged on the tired trope of ''muh family'' as the cheap, generic trick for making you somehow 'invest' in the main character. The two antagonists were also the most cliche ridden one-dimensional baddies imaginable where the first one had the highly intriguing Ruvik whose motivation actually made sense in the context of the story. Mobius turned from a sinister co-conspirator into cartoony evilcorp. Backgrounds couldn't be more unimaginative(where the first game was always pushing boundaries) and the enemy designs were also completely generic.

I loved the first game but the sequel was just an uninspired, cliche ridden, generic and just plain boring piece of crap. It's admirable that Mikami was willing to pass on director duties to someone else in the team but unfortunately it was passed on to a talentless hack.
Yes, I noticed some of the last of us similarities, but it didn't bother me much. I still rather play Evil Within 2 than either Last of Us games. The game still felt like a true sequel to the Resident Evil series and either six, seven, or when eight eventually comes out. Ew1 is still a good game, but it just felt like diet Resident Evil 4, except you're in The Matrix/The Cell. Yes, the focus is on Ruben, but all the other characters come off as too shallow. Maybe it's the voice directing, I don't know. Once again, it is a Shinji Mikami game and he cares more about monsters and settings and characters. It's the same problems that crop up whenever Chris or Jill are the main protagonist. Though even Jill got more development compared to Chris early on anyway. I enjoyed a majority of the side quest, I like Sebastian's personal side quest that further his character development and rewarded at the end for it. You get his old trusty revolver. My favorite side quest was all of Sykes.
 

laggyteabag

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That's the issue that Woolie and Pat pointed out. A lot of these guys and gals aren't. Woolie used to be part of playtesting, and he never even got credited even 10% of the time. A lot of the big publishers and some of the medium ones, want their QA testers under the rug, claiming it officially came within the publisher developer himself. Not outside sources. Even if it's within in house, they still won't give proper credit where it's due. That's the point they're both making.
Well if that is the case, then yeah, that sucks.

In my mind QA is just as necessary as any other role.

I believe that anyone who contributes to a game or movie should get credited. If some studios aren't, then they need to start.

Thanks for clarifying.
 
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BrawlMan

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Well if that is the case, then yeah, that sucks.

In my mind QA is just as necessary as any other role.

I believe that anyone who contributes to a game or movie should get credited. If some studios aren't, then they need to start.

Thanks for clarifying.
You're welcome and what's worse is that some of these publishers and developers, will get mad or blame the QA testers for doing their freaking job. You know, pointing out bad game breaking bugs or glitches. Hell, Rockstar fired one of their developers for fixing the shooting mechanic in Red Dead 2. That shows you how pathetic it is. Aiming in rd2 is not good and everyone knows it. The fact that Rockstar fired one of their old programmers for doing their job and trying to make the game play better shows you how little they give a fuck. And like to blame everyone, but themselves.
 

CriticalGaming

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That's the issue that Woolie and Pat pointed out. A lot of these guys and gals aren't. Woolie used to be part of playtesting, and he never even got credited even 10% of the time. A lot of the big publishers and some of the medium ones, want their QA testers under the rug, claiming it officially came within the publisher developer himself. Not outside sources. Even if it's within in house, they still won't give proper credit where it's due. That's the point they're both making.
What company did he work for? Was he hired as a temp? Because I could see a temp not getting credited. But I was credited in EVERY game I ever worked on without fail. And I was working for Activision, so I don't know who he could have worked for in what capacity that he wouldn't be credited in the game.

The only exception is if they fired you before they made the credits for the project, and even then they usually pull all the names from the bug database to put into the credit sequence.

So either Woolie was a temp, or he didn't work on any given project long enough to be part of the credits, or he is full of shit and making crap up.

Hell even googling my name for video game credits brings up a list of the games I worked on, and I'm not even in any official databases. https://prnt.sc/11cd58a

There is absolutely no way Woolie is being 100% honest about that. Something is fishy about his stories.
 

BrawlMan

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What company did he work for? Was he hired as a temp? Because I could see a temp not getting credited. But I was credited in EVERY game I ever worked on without fail. And I was working for Activision, so I don't know who he could have worked for in what capacity that he wouldn't be credited in the game.
No. He did not mention the companies, though some spot were temps only because the companies he worked for were squeezing other/previous QA testers out of the byline. As far as Activision goes, you got lucky, and landed at one of the few companies that cared (at the time).

So either Woolie was a temp, or he didn't work on any given project long enough to be part of the credits, or he is full of shit and making crap up.

Hell even googling my name for video game credits brings up a list of the games I worked on, and I'm not even in any official databases. https://prnt.sc/11cd58a

There is absolutely no way Woolie is being 100% honest about that. Something is fishy about his stories.
I highly doubt Woolie would go out of his way to lie about something like this. I suggest you watch the full thing, if you have not already. Otherwise, just ask him. Go to his Twitter, or ask him privately. I believe him. If you don't that's your problem.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I disagree heavily. I don't care how smart or stupid that people are in QA, proper credit deserves proper credit. Because the game (s) wouldn't have a higher quality without those testers. They are essential to making sure the game works and functions. When you lessen on that, rush something, or don't have any QA at all, you get all the bull crap in the triple A industry and expected a place 60 plus a premium of a shell price. Crunch and an excuse for the developers to treat their QA people like garbage either. I call that he or she who fights monsters. Even if it is born out of frustration and desperation.

To me it would seem to be kinda like, say, the construction industry. There is the crew that builds the houses, and then someone comes along afterwards to inspect the house. Perhaps that person knows a bit about home building, which to their credit would be beneficial overall. But, at the same time, the inspector didn’t actually build the house.
 

BrawlMan

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But, at the same time, the inspector didn’t actually build the house.
Credit is given when and where it's due. Especially when corporate assholes squeeze those that worked hard out of the byline for petty reasons, not wanting give thanks cuz ego or the environment is set to looked down on those below you.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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One of my favourite YouTubers Raycevick just uploaded this video, and safe to say that I am pretty sold on the potential of mobile gaming, now.

I didn’t watch, but if it involves using your phone as a remote play device connected to a cloud server where you subscribe to a game service, then I’m not sold yet.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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What company did he work for? Was he hired as a temp? Because I could see a temp not getting credited. But I was credited in EVERY game I ever worked on without fail. And I was working for Activision, so I don't know who he could have worked for in what capacity that he wouldn't be credited in the game.

The only exception is if they fired you before they made the credits for the project, and even then they usually pull all the names from the bug database to put into the credit sequence.

So either Woolie was a temp, or he didn't work on any given project long enough to be part of the credits, or he is full of shit and making crap up.

Hell even googling my name for video game credits brings up a list of the games I worked on, and I'm not even in any official databases. https://prnt.sc/11cd58a

There is absolutely no way Woolie is being 100% honest about that. Something is fishy about his stories.

That’s another thing I noticed, is Activision is the publisher on all of those games. Take Wolfenstein 2009 for example. The testers like yourself work for not the developer Raven Software, but the publisher, Activision. So the title of the Super Beast vid, “QA Testers Aren’t Treated Like Developers” is a bit misleading and confusing, because it implies they should be considered developers while not even being employed by the actual developers.

Having said that, yeah, if they aren’t getting credit for the job they are doing (QA), then that of course needs to be rectified, especially whenever it involves a lack of monetary compensation.
 

laggyteabag

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I didn’t watch, but if it involves using your phone as a remote play device connected to a cloud server where you subscribe to a game service, then I’m not sold yet.
The video doesn't discuss the streaming side of mobile gaming, and actually only barely mentions it. It focuses entirely on natively run games that offer controller support, and the small handful of console games that have been ported over.

At the end of the day, phones are just hardware, and many of the higher end devices can really push pixels. Yes, mobile games have a poor reputation because the app stores are plagued with pretty much every brand of bullshit possible, but there is nothing to say that phones cannot have good quality games and ports, and this video really sold me on that.
 
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Hades

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This seems rather typical with Sony closing the PS store and the mocking reception of a potential TLOU remake.