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Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Seriously, fuck Game Rant (any other journalist or YouTuber that keeps trying to sell this false narrative). They're a big part of this "problem", and keep instigating this shit. Horizon is a major success. Both games did great. What the hell do you want at this point? If you want your favorite franchise to dominate over everything; too freaking bad. That's not how life works. How about you all shut up, quit crying, and be grateful that you have a game franchise you enjoy? If you don't like the other games, that it's fine, but leave them and their fans alone.
They want that sweet, sweet meme energy. Horizon is a huge Sony game, and yet it's a game that's just kinda there. It doesn't have your Mr. X, your maidenless, your BOY; it doesn't have much of a personality to make people really want to talk about it. And so any other big game that does easily steals its meme thunder.
 

BrawlMan

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They want that sweet, sweet meme energy. Horizon is a huge Sony game, and yet it's a game that's just kinda there. It doesn't have your Mr. X, your maidenless, your BOY; it doesn't have much of a personality to make people really want to talk about it. And so any other big game that does easily steals its meme thunder.
Well, their meme energy or "detection" of meme energy sucks ass. Where was all of this crying when Resistance came out, or when Gravity Rush 2 released to little fanfare? Where the hell was all that crying when Sony shut down JAPAN Studio down all for the sake of convenience, despite them giving everything for nearly two decades? Fuck off you posers!
 
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Dalisclock

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So I admittedly never played WoW. I played Evercrack and City of Heros for a little while way back in the day and based on those two realized that MMOs weren't for me. That being said, I've heard other people talk about the issues with MMOs before and this feels like the worst of all of those.

There's a famous saying that some people like to bring up that "Given a chance, Players will optimize the fun out of a game" and the argument never really gelled with me until I watched the above and realized just how fucking soulless it all feels. I realize people generally want to play the best they can and some people love the idea of mastering a game, but by god, this just feels like they took something that's supposed to be fun and turned it into a fucking job.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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I realize people generally want to play the best they can and some people love the idea of mastering a game, but by god, this just feels like they took something that's supposed to be fun and turned it into a fucking job.
Yep, and god fucking help you if you're doing your own thing your own way.
 

BrawlMan

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this just feels like they took something that's supposed to be fun and turned it into a fucking job.
Yep, and god fucking help you if you're doing your own thing your own way.
That is why it's best to always ignore the foolish snobs, let them stew in their own self-made misery, and go off and do your own thing. I learned that the easy way.

This guy I sort of understand where he is coming from, but I think Streets of Rage 4 is great game. People are still playing it. While might not play exactly like the past games it still takes elements from either the Genesis Trilogy, or the SORR fan game. I'll give this guy credit for backing up most of his arguments and not insulting those for loving the game, but there are still some problems in his video. His complaint about no video guides existing for no death runs/strategy videos makes no sense and is intellectually dishonest though. Claimer claim's that the only videos he sees are score/S-Rank guides and that's it. He seems to forget/doesn't want to acknowledge that many of the past SOR games don't have many commentated or non-commentated video strategy guides with many videos on YouTube either being just fun runs, no death runs, or tool assisted speed runs. That is nothing new and is not that shocking or upsetting as he is making it out to be. Claimer can like or dislike whatever he wants, but the guy is just being a nice version of contrarian. I will admit the game does get Special Attack or Blitz Attack spam heavy on the highest difficulties or especially in Survival Mode. Yet that is nothing new to the series. Play Streets of Rage 2 on Mania and see how far you can get without spamming something.

 
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meiam

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So I admittedly never played WoW. I played Evercrack and City of Heros for a little while way back in the day and based on those two realized that MMOs weren't for me. That being said, I've heard other people talk about the issues with MMOs before and this feels like the worst of all of those.

There's a famous saying that some people like to bring up that "Given a chance, Players will optimize the fun out of a game" and the argument never really gelled with me until I watched the above and realized just how fucking soulless it all feels. I realize people generally want to play the best they can and some people love the idea of mastering a game, but by god, this just feels like they took something that's supposed to be fun and turned it into a fucking job.
Depend what you're interested in, look at all those "job X simulator" game, those are literally job and yet people can play them for hours. And on top of that some people will watch people play hose and even give them money, eurotruck simulator has a decent popularity on twitch iirc.

Raiding in MMO is about three things:
1) The communal experience of a large number of player all coming together, the fun is knowing that everyone is doing their own job to the best of their ability. This fall apart if everyone can just mess around and succeed, the point is the feeling of "we all came together and did something special", the feeling from finally clearing a content you've been stuck on for weeks is something very unique. The best comparison would be when spors team win championship and the crowd goes crazy, except everyone in the crowd was a player. But if a bunch of random people can just pull it off on their first attempt with no special coordination, then that vanish and instead you just get a "huh, that was okay".

2) Content, developer aren't machine, they can't craft content fast enough for player to do if they can all clear it on first attempt. There's some attempt to make randomly generated content (think diablo), but then those all bland together and even though you're doing different stuff every time, it all feel like the same. So you need content to keep player satisfied for the next 6 months while you make the new content, but you've only have maybe 10 hours of content made. So you gotta made it really challenging so that they can't possibly clear on the first attempt.

3) Social experience, most people play mmo to hang out with people and just do something together. But the "something" need to exist so, similar to 2, you need content to keep player in the game so they can hang out with other player and chat. There are some casual guild that are supposedly about just doing the easy version of every encounter, but those tend to die pretty quick, because player will logging the first week, clear the easy version and then will disappear until next patches, the guild become kinda of a ghost town because when player join there's no one there to talk to, so they don't stay meaning that the next person to login will also be alone.

The addon are kinda of double edge sword, because they give such a massive advantages to the player, the dev are forced to make encounter around them existing and make the encounter really challenging, which means player develop better tool/addon, which mean dev have to make those even more complex and this cycle goes on. A lot of MMO will ban addon for that reason, but then as a player you often feel like your fighting against the control rather than the game. Like, I cannot play FF14 because of how garbage the healing UI is now that I've used good one.

That being said, MMO are dying because of how incredibly demanding they are from both the developer and the player, newer MMO tend to be much more casual, but then they replace hard content by gambling content, where you can quickly clear the toughest stuff, but it's almost impossible to get the best loot from them (but if you pay...).
 

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The boring one

So I admittedly never played WoW. I played Evercrack and City of Heros for a little while way back in the day and based on those two realized that MMOs weren't for me. That being said, I've heard other people talk about the issues with MMOs before and this feels like the worst of all of those.

There's a famous saying that some people like to bring up that "Given a chance, Players will optimize the fun out of a game" and the argument never really gelled with me until I watched the above and realized just how fucking soulless it all feels. I realize people generally want to play the best they can and some people love the idea of mastering a game, but by god, this just feels like they took something that's supposed to be fun and turned it into a fucking job.
Won't be watching a movie-long yt video about world or warcraft, but I share the sentiment. A friend wanted me to play Diablo 2 with him, when I caved in it turned out he wanted me to click on the screen following a given path then level the character by following a pre-calculated plan, and, well, you don't need player input for that. I also had a lot of fun in multiplayer NOLF2 when we were playing for fun more than for win : multiplayer shooters are won by bunny hopping (which completely break the style of a cold war trenchcoat-and-silencer shootout), and some situations are just funnier with risks, wile e. coyote failures or, well, sometimes gratuitously joke-like or in-character reactions. Maybe I'm more about "toying" than "playing", but videogame flavors tend to drag me away from chess mindset.

Even in single player, I don't like games that force you to minmax too much instead of "living" the game (I think Frostpunk is a bit like that, and the late levels of Heroes of Might and Magic aswell).
 

hanselthecaretaker

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So I admittedly never played WoW. I played Evercrack and City of Heros for a little while way back in the day and based on those two realized that MMOs weren't for me. That being said, I've heard other people talk about the issues with MMOs before and this feels like the worst of all of those.

There's a famous saying that some people like to bring up that "Given a chance, Players will optimize the fun out of a game" and the argument never really gelled with me until I watched the above and realized just how fucking soulless it all feels. I realize people generally want to play the best they can and some people love the idea of mastering a game, but by god, this just feels like they took something that's supposed to be fun and turned it into a fucking job.
There’s also a saying, “Being a crackhead is actually hard work!”

Well, maybe not but kinda the same principle of thought.


It also reminds me of the rabbit hole that can be PC gaming. I was sucked into it for years when I made my first build(s) but it just became too much of a time/money sink. At a certain point, “good enough” has to enter the equation to preserve sanity.


Oh, and speaking of rabbits, Happy Easter everyone! 🐰
 

Dalisclock

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Won't be watching a movie-long yt video about world or warcraft, but I share the sentiment.
A lot it gets really deep into the nitty gritty of data and how elite WoW players play and as someone who doesn't play WoW a lot of it was just me nodding and pretending I had some idea what he was going about, but yeah, it felt like this is what happens when the Munchkins take over.