Game of Thrones Author Comments on Lack of Racial Diversity in Series

[Dalisclock]

I know it's been said but....
I am shocked! Shocked to learn that Westros, a land that is based off Mideveal England, is mostly white and run by white people.

 

[Remus]

In our diverse society, this just won't do. Game of Thrones needs to give credit and spotlight to more races and sexual orientations. Seriously, what is this? Aryan race land?

If Tolkien had writted the Lord of the Rings today, the social justice warriors would probably have a heart attack. All the characters are white, straight, cisgendered and the story is almost entirely based on Northern European culture and mythology. Oh what horrible racism and white supremacy.

Infact I think all LOTR books should be forcibly removed from shelves and re-written in more inclusive and multicultural fashion. Frodo should be replaced with a bisexual Muslim and he should be married to Samwise, a gay African and Merry and Pippin will both be disabled Indians. Aragorn should be a transexual native American, Gimli should be a gender neutral Jew, Legolas will be a feminist Japanese girl and Gandalf a Buddhist monk. The Nazgul already look somewhat like burka wearing Muslim women so they get a pass.

Sauron will now be an evil white man, who wants to keep all the minorities down with his army of neo-nazi orcs. The entire story will revolve around this vibrant fellowship fighting through the neo-nazi orc hoards, with the goal of reaching Mordor and forcing Sauron to check his white privilege, and then eventually turn Mordor into a diverse, multicultural paradise.

Ya know, sometimes it's difficult to express sarcasm in an online post, but you pull it off marvelously. Bravo to you sir.
I will throw it out there, the GoT world IS a representation of medieval Europe, the War of the Roses in fact. THAT'S RIGHT, I SAID IT! Were there historical people of African or Asian descent in that era during this specific period in history - between 1455 and 1487, within England and its territories? Maybe. Were they significant enough to be recorded? Not likely. (Cue some historian dusting off a 100yr old tome JUST to correct me, go ahead, I welcome it) And yes, a lot of the slaves Dani is liberating are black or brown people. Guess what, a lot of slaves in our own history were black and brown people! Here in the U.S. we fought our own war of liberation for that very reason. With Daenerys it's not different. Lets look at it another way. Bravos is representative of the French - that rich land across the sea that will not be conquered. So their people have thick accents in comparison to the people of Westeros, who are of course where most of the PoV characters hail from. Do we object when we see and hear this, that one has an accent, one does not? I haven't heard complaints. In fact I've heard the opposite, that this Bravosi or that didn't carry an accent and should have. Is the bickering over accents racist? One could claim the subtext is there but it's so minor, why bother. That's what this is, a minor complaint over something we take for granted and think we can somehow hold the moral high ground when we imagine the smallest slight to political correctness. Some people really should just step away from the computer, take a deep breath, and go outside rather than judging others whose works they have enjoyed for so very long. And with that, I'll do the same. It's a hot, sunny day and I plan to enjoy it.

 

[Colour Scientist]

Inb4
Anecdotal examples of a few notable non-Caucasians in medieval Europe

Yeah because Westeros is so true to medieval Europe.

Dragons? Fine.
People coming back from the dead? Makes sense.
More people of colour in important roles? Don't be so unrealistic.

 

[Sanderpower]

Ya know, everytime I read something like one of these 'This medieval Europe analog is not as racialy diverse as north America! My feelings are extremely hurt and you are a RACIST!'... its comming from a black person. Its never a latino, east-asian, central asian, arab or slavic.

And im not talking about actual valid complaints of inequity, just these complete off-the-wall comments. This self-victimizing, Jesse Jackson-style shakedown, guilt abusing scumbaggery seems to have taken on a life of its own and now has people genuinely believing this garbage. This does not help anyone, it hurts actual progress, it makes it harder for minorities with ACTUAL problems to be takenn seriously and further convinces anyone who thinks ALL complaints of inequity are a load of whining of his viewpoint.

Jesse Jackson and this anonymous GoT fan screw over their own minotiry and society as a whole. Do not give in to them.

Knee Jerk reaction much? It's just a question, people shouldn't be threatened by questions. I was also curious as to why there were so few non-criminal/non servant black people in the series.

 

[Colour Scientist]

And what's with the passive aggressive "Must all black people be"? She realizes there's just as many white servants, guards, and charlatans in the series too, right?

The issue is that while there are white servants and guards, people of colour tend to only exist in these roles.

I don't understand why people on this site have such trouble with people asking about diversity.
No one said anything about racism, just the typical Escapist thread, over-reacting to accusations that haven't been made.

Oh noes, someone dared to ask an author a question about diversity, call the SJW Police or some shit.

 

[Sanderpower]

In our diverse society, this just won't do. Game of Thrones needs to give credit and spotlight to more races and sexual orientations. Seriously, what is this? Aryan race land?

If Tolkien had writted the Lord of the Rings today, the social justice warriors would probably have a heart attack. All the characters are white, straight, cisgendered and the story is almost entirely based on Northern European culture and mythology. Oh what horrible racism and white supremacy.

Infact I think all LOTR books should be forcibly removed from shelves and re-written in more inclusive and multicultural fashion. Frodo should be replaced with a bisexual Muslim and he should be married to Samwise, a gay African and Merry and Pippin will both be disabled Indians. Aragorn should be a transexual native American, Gimli should be a gender neutral Jew, Legolas will be a feminist Japanese girl and Gandalf a Buddhist monk. The Nazgul already look somewhat like burka wearing Muslim women so they get a pass.

Sauron will now be an evil white man, who wants to keep all the minorities down with his army of neo-nazi orcs. The entire story will revolve around this vibrant fellowship fighting through the neo-nazi orc hoards, with the goal of reaching Mordor and forcing Sauron to check his white privilege, and then eventually turn Mordor into a diverse, multicultural paradise.

Ya know, sometimes it's difficult to express sarcasm in an online post, but you pull it off marvelously. Bravo to you sir.
I will throw it out there, the GoT world IS a representation of medieval Europe, the War of the Roses in fact. THAT'S RIGHT, I SAID IT! Were there historical people of African or Asian descent in that era during this specific period in history - between 1455 and 1487, within England and its territories? Maybe. Were they significant enough to be recorded? Not likely. (Cue some historian dusting off a 100yr old tome JUST to correct me, go ahead, I welcome it) And yes, a lot of the slaves Dani is liberating are black or brown people. Guess what, a lot of slaves in our own history were black and brown people! Here in the U.S. we fought our own war of liberation for that very reason. With Daenerys it's not different. Lets look at it another way. Bravos is representative of the French - that rich land across the sea that will not be conquered. So their people have thick accents in comparison to the people of Westeros, who are of course where most of the PoV characters hail from. Do we object when we see and hear this, that one has an accent, one does not? I haven't heard complaints. In fact I've heard the opposite, that this Bravosi or that didn't carry an accent and should have. Is the bickering over accents racist? One could claim the subtext is there but it's so minor, why bother. That's what this is, a minor complaint over something we take for granted and think we can somehow hold the moral high ground when we imagine the smallest slight to political correctness. Some people really should just step away from the computer, take a deep breath, and go outside rather than judging others whose works they have enjoyed for so very long. And with that, I'll do the same. It's a hot, sunny day and I plan to enjoy it.

It doesn't matter that in the real world a lot of black people were slaves. How does that have any relevance to the fictional world of Game of Thrones where dragons and ice zombies exist? Dark skinned people being the "stock people" for slaves isn't exactly an encouraging thing to see in a series.

 

[Remus]

It doesn't matter that in the real world a lot of black people were slaves. How does that have any relevance to the fictional world of Game of Thrones where dragons and ice zombies exist? Dark skinned people being the "stock people" for slaves isn't exactly an encouraging thing to see in a series.

But it doesn't make it any less accurate. I'm sorry that Game of Thrones couldn't fit your ideal, where all the slaves were white people, or maybe that there weren't any saves at all, thus cutting out a major plot point that easily fills at least a third of the show.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I'd actually really like to see more POV people of different cultures outside of Westeros. One of the neat things the POV system can do is show events from the perspective of different people of different cultures. We get alot of that from the different individual areas in Westeros but not a lot from places outside of it.

It doesn't matter that in the real world a lot of black people were slaves. How does that have any relevance to the fictional world of Game of Thrones where dragons and ice zombies exist? Dark skinned people being the "stock people" for slaves isn't exactly an encouraging thing to see in a series.

Were the Unsullied black? I always made them out to be more Middle-Eastern (since most of the Africa analogue seems to be the Summer Isles). May be wrong though.

 

[UberPubert]

The issue is that while there are white servants and guards, people of colour tend to only exist in these roles.

But what of it? The lack of black people outside of these roles is not evidence they must be in them, especially not when they're filled by so many white people. I don't even think it can be argued that these roles are lesser, considering GoT has had a knack for depicting most upper class characters as incompetent or tyrants (or dead).

I don't understand why people on this site have such trouble with people asking about diversity.
No one said anything about racism, just the typical Escapist thread, over-reacting to accusations that haven't been made.

It's not just this site, I can assure you - and the trouble is always with people calling for diversification in media that other people enjoy. To ask for increased diversification in an established property is to challenge the creator's intentions as being A. The result of a whimsical dart toss, rendering the significance of an established character's features moot, or B. Actual malice on the creator's part to perpetrate bigoted ideas.

Oh noes, someone dared to ask an author a question about diversity, call the SJW Police or some shit.

It has very little to do with the simple question, and far, far more to do with the implications, and the repeated attempts by people who say these kinds of things to paint others as bigots. It's widespread on the internet by now and people are sick of it.

 

[Something Amyss]

Come on, it's epic fantasy. It's expected that Aryan characteristics win the day.

The show did cut down on a lot of the parts for non-white actors (removing Strong Belwas, putting the bloodriders into the background, etc.) while leaving the foreign villains mostly intact, but I think that is more of a constraint of trying to fit everything into a TV show than a deliberate stylistic choice.

It's amazing how often the non-whites get cut as some sort of extraneous constraint. This is incredibly common, and he volume alone should set one's pattern recognition a-tinglin'

I don't understand why people on this site have such trouble with people asking about diversity.
No one said anything about racism, just the typical Escapist thread, over-reacting to accusations that haven't been made.

It's "Suspiciously Specific Denial [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuspiciouslySpecificDenial]" played straight.

Jesse Jackson and this anonymous GoT fan screw over their own minotiry and society as a whole. Do not give in to them.

Funny you should bring up Jesse Jackson, a guy who's usually paid to give his opinion. But okay, if the actions of a few paint the majority poorly, doesn't that also hold true of the whites who actually are racist? What about the people who complained that they "made" Rue and her District black in the Hunger Games movie (Spoiler: she was dark-skinned in the books, though I don't think they specifically said "black"). Are white people bad now?

Or does this "reflects poorly" thing only work one way? Because it's generally only applied one way: towards minorities.

 

[Darmani]

And what's with the passive aggressive "Must all black people be"? She realizes there's just as many white servants, guards, and charlatans in the series too, right? And some of the white people who aren't any of those things are still terrible people.

I wonder how quick the "RACIST!" accusations would come if the majority of the characters were non-white and still did awful, awful things to each other.

OT

What about that continent across the sea from Westeros? Granted, I've not read the books and haven't exactly kept up with the show, but that place seemed to be full of non-whites....

Yeah and set it in commonly overly accused of crime and dilipated area like uhm BOSTON and...

 

[Darmani]

Its not just minority races that are underrepresented either! Where are the differently-able people in Westeros? In 4 seasons of the show I haven't seen one person in a motorized chair, or injecting insulin regularly. And how hard would it be to include one fully-transitioned trans character?
I can hear you know, sputtering "B-but those type of people don't make sense in a medieval Europe analogous world!"
Please, this is FANTASY, they can explain it. There are DRAGONS for godsake.

Bran, Hodor, Jaime, Tyrion, and.. likely dozens of other characters.
GoT has some issues. And its complainers do get out of had but if you will parody them do please try not to make them blind deaf AND dumb.

 

[Darmani]

And what's with the passive aggressive "Must all black people be"? She realizes there's just as many white servants, guards, and charlatans in the series too, right?

The issue is that while there are white servants and guards, people of colour tend to only exist in these roles.

I don't understand why people on this site have such trouble with people asking about diversity.
No one said anything about racism, just the typical Escapist thread, over-reacting to accusations that haven't been made.

Oh noes, someone dared to ask an author a question about diversity, call the SJW Police or some shit.

White Guy Defense Force.. they.. yeah it was a thing

 

[Tanis]

I really don't 'get' this kind of stuff.

Maybe it's because I enjoy learning about history, or most of my friends/(ex)mates aren't white, or something else...

But how can you ***** about Egypt being whitewashed in Hollywood films, given, real history of who lived there.

Then, without ANY irony, ***** that there's a lack of 'diversity' in a historical piece, set in the whitest of the white lands.

I mean...the hell?

 

[Tiamat666]

Jesus, there was not much racial diversity anywhere in the world during the middle ages, which GoT obviously draws a lot of inspiration from. Can't we leave the political correctness bullshit out of anything these days?

 

[Redd the Sock]

And what's with the passive aggressive "Must all black people be"? She realizes there's just as many white servants, guards, and charlatans in the series too, right?

The issue is that while there are white servants and guards, people of colour tend to only exist in these roles.

I don't understand why people on this site have such trouble with people asking about diversity.
No one said anything about racism, just the typical Escapist thread, over-reacting to accusations that haven't been made.

Oh noes, someone dared to ask an author a question about diversity, call the SJW Police or some shit.

For me is has to do with how little respect for the answer is given after the fact. The question is never, I repeat NEVER a simple question about creative thought processes and why decisions are made, but is made solely to root out potential *isms and imbalances. We get an answer, but he issue gets pressed like people are trying to get a different answer. "come on, admit you didn't think about it. Admit you're a racist / sexist / homophobe you fucking bigot."

When the answer doesn't get respected, the question becomes a trap and people stop wanting to talk about it because once the topic comes up, there's no way out but unconditional surrender. As a creator it gets worse because it shows your fans showing so little respect for your creative decisions that they feel they can try and overwrite them after you've laid out your justification because "diversity".

 

[Tiamat666]

Inb4
Anecdotal examples of a few notable non-Caucasians in medieval Europe

Yeah because Westeros is so true to medieval Europe.

Dragons? Fine.
People coming back from the dead? Makes sense.
More people of colour in important roles? Don't be so unrealistic.

It must make sense in the context of the story! Dragons make sense in the context of the story! Undead make sense in the context of the story! A black knight in Winterfell or Casterly Rock? How would that make sense? That would be just as retarded as the black guy nordic portal god in Thor. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! And if you DO make something like that, then at the very least it has to be explained, and not just add the racial diversity for the sake of the political correctness BS.

 

[Colour Scientist]

Inb4
Anecdotal examples of a few notable non-Caucasians in medieval Europe

Yeah because Westeros is so true to medieval Europe.

Dragons? Fine.
People coming back from the dead? Makes sense.
More people of colour in important roles? Don't be so unrealistic.

It must make sense in the context of the story! Dragons make sense in the context of the story! Undead make sense in the context of the story! A black knight in Winterfell or Casterly Rock? How would that make sense? That would be just as retarded as the black guy nordic portal god in Thor. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! And if you DO make something like that, then at the very least it has to be explained, and not just add the racial diversity for the sake of the political correctness BS.

I...

Are you serious?

I'm going to pretend that you're joking.

It's funny how including someone "for the sake of it" only ever comes up in relation to the inclusion of minorities.

We get an answer, but he issue gets pressed like people are trying to get a different answer. "come on, admit you didn't think about it. Admit you're a racist / sexist / homophobe you fucking bigot."

No one here has said that.

Whatever, you people can continue to get your knickers in a twist about "political correctness" if you want, feel free to hide behind the claim that you're defending artistic integrity and realism.

I'll never understand why the potential inclusion of minorities in narratives gets so many people worked up.

 

[Darmani]

Jesus, there was not much racial diversity anywhere in the world during the middle ages, which GoT obviously draws a lot of inspiration from. Can't we leave the political correctness bullshit out of anything these days?

Egypt, Spain, Greece, Italy, Germany, the nordic countries, Russia.

Thank goodness all the colored folks just up and disappeared during this time, to bad we just came back and the last...

Look, yeah, black people in england, not so much. But it wasn't lily white as far as the eye can see and even a place like Westeros with its highly conflicting technology, culture, and intentionally NOT BASIC fantasy ethnic makeup shout outs can't be using the realism defense. And Essos an intentionally more diverse place not supposed to be dominated by medieval fantasy cliches has less of an excuse. Particularly hatchet accuracy as I'm seeing lots of hair and skincare but no painted hairs and beards. Though I will say more poc do exist in this fantasy epic even if not tied to the internecine operatic drama as much.

I don't hold it too much to it, but its a fair question that deserves a straight answer and a concern that needs to be considered in ways.