Game of Thrones Final Season Discussion Thread. (SPOILERS ABOUND, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED)

[Dalisclock]

So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

I know some people are angry that the blond girl went crazy or something because the tv series diverges from the book with regards to darkness and characterization but somehow retains the same ending as the book but I wonder if that's alleviated if you just read the book.

Well, the inherent issue now is that while the show is finished, the books certinatly aren't. 5 books are published with 2 more apparently on the way. However, GRR Martin has been taking his time writing them and each book has been taking longer then the last. The last book was published 8 years ago and he refuses to comment on when the next one will be done(other to say they aren't done yet, because one of the show actors said he heard they were finished). But there is more then enough written to just start reading now and hope the next one at least has a release date by the time you finish(unless you read super fast).

I've read the first 3. I keep telling myself I'm not starting on 4 and 5 until he's at least announced when book 6 is coming out, but I'm starting to get worried he's gonna die of old age/health issues before he finishes the saga. The man is 70 and he doesn't look like he's in fantastic health and Brandon Sanderson is writing his own massive fantasy epic so it's unlikely he'll be able bail him out if he kicks it like he did with Robert Jordan.

Apparently RR went over the big plot points for the last two books with the showrunners around the time they reached the end of the books, so assuming he still writes to those same plot points(at this point I have to wonder), one can only assume the execution might be very different. That's not taking into account the books and the show already diverged before they ran out of book material to adapt.

 

[Saelune]

My question is the same. For what purpose? The wildlings are severely reduced in number and likely won't be a problem in future. And the White Walkers are all dead. There doesn't seem to be much of a purpose in having a wall, let alone people to watch it.

I think the point was, Grey Worm didn't know that. The dumb ball-less bastard drug Tyrion out before a council of his own countrymen for a trial when his own outnumbered forces now occupied the least defensible and most treacherous position in Westeros, knowing full well how trying him works out for the accused. He literally stood there and let Tyrion talk his way into picking his own judge and jury, then stood there looking like somebody cut his cock off all over again when it didn't go his way.

Grey Worm is lucky he, the Unsullied, and the twelve remaining Dothraki were allowed to part Westeros, in peace, as free men. You know, only for Grey Worm to order sailing straight for Plague Island. Is it that much of a stretch they conned Grey Worm into believing that giving Jon everything he actually wanted, was a punishment?

I mean, the only thing keeping Westeros from another, bigger, even bloodier civil war at this point is Bran's Tree-Leto powers. He granted his family's domain independence to be ruled by his sister, but not Dorne or the Iron Islands which actually have standing armies and navies at this point, and appointed a lowborn sellsword Warden of the Reach. Not to mention naming the most hated man in Westeros Hand, and a disinherited noble of an eradicated House who is a deserter of both Night's Watch and Maester order, and a thief, Grand Maester. Bare minimum, Dorne's in a fantastic position to wage a war of independence and win, nothing stops the Ironborn from Reaving. Fucking. Everything., and the Reach is likely to rebel against Bronn to install one of their own as Warden.

It burns my brisket that Grey Worm got away with his war crimes without even something so minor as a slap on the wrist. At least he's taking the rest of his followers to an island where their skin will melt off due to toxic butterflies.

I wonder what will happen to the cities of slavers bay. After all, part of her enforcement of peace came from the fact that she threatened to return with her dragons. Now, two of those dragons are dead, and she's also gone. What's to stop them from re-instituting slavery?

At least Ghost was reunited with his master. Good boy.

Lots of people got away with their war crimes. Everyone likes to casually forget that Tormund slaughtered multiple villages of innocent people just to piss off The Night's Watch.

I've never forgiven him for that. And it's why I don't blame Olly and the others who despise specific wildlings. They have good cause.

Olly killed Jon, not Tormund. Fuck Olly.

Jon basically pardoned all the wildlings despite their reeving of the mostly defenseless peasants. Olly's stabbing was entirely predictable.

Predictable, but not justified. I don't hate Olly for killing Ygritte. I hate Olly for killing Jon. If he killed Tormund I also would not have faulted him.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

I know some people are angry that the blond girl went crazy or something because the tv series diverges from the book with regards to darkness and characterization but somehow retains the same ending as the book but I wonder if that's alleviated if you just read the book.

Well, the inherent issue now is that while the show is finished, the books certinatly aren't. 5 books are published with 2 more apparently on the way. However, GRR Martin has been taking his time writing them and each book has been taking longer then the last. The last book was published 8 years ago and he refuses to comment on when the next one will be done(other to say they aren't done yet, because one of the show actors said he heard they were finished). But there is more then enough written to just start reading now and hope the next one at least has a release date by the time you finish(unless you read super fast).

I've read the first 3. I keep telling myself I'm not starting on 4 and 5 until he's at least announced when book 6 is coming out, but I'm starting to get worried he's gonna die of old age/health issues before he finishes the saga. The man is 70 and he doesn't look like he's in fantastic health and Brandon Sanderson is writing his own massive fantasy epic so it's unlikely he'll be able bail him out if he kicks it like he did with Robert Jordan.

Oh wow, it's funny you mention Sanderson since I'm in the middle of reading the third Stormlight book as we speak. Really loving that series so far. And yeah these books are massive and 3000~ pages in nothing is nearly concluded yet lol.


But yeah, sounds like it's worth getting into the books for now.

 

[Dalisclock]

So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

I know some people are angry that the blond girl went crazy or something because the tv series diverges from the book with regards to darkness and characterization but somehow retains the same ending as the book but I wonder if that's alleviated if you just read the book.

Well, the inherent issue now is that while the show is finished, the books certinatly aren't. 5 books are published with 2 more apparently on the way. However, GRR Martin has been taking his time writing them and each book has been taking longer then the last. The last book was published 8 years ago and he refuses to comment on when the next one will be done(other to say they aren't done yet, because one of the show actors said he heard they were finished). But there is more then enough written to just start reading now and hope the next one at least has a release date by the time you finish(unless you read super fast).

I've read the first 3. I keep telling myself I'm not starting on 4 and 5 until he's at least announced when book 6 is coming out, but I'm starting to get worried he's gonna die of old age/health issues before he finishes the saga. The man is 70 and he doesn't look like he's in fantastic health and Brandon Sanderson is writing his own massive fantasy epic so it's unlikely he'll be able bail him out if he kicks it like he did with Robert Jordan.

Oh wow, it's funny you mention Sanderson since I'm in the middle of reading the third Stormlight book as we speak. Really loving that series so far. And yeah these books are massive and 3000~ pages in nothing is nearly concluded yet lol.


But yeah, sounds like it's worth getting into the books for now.

I re-read the first stormlight book recently and enjoyed it. I have the other two on my shelf waiting for me, but I need a break between 1000+ page epics. Apparently Sanderson is planning to write 10 of them so roughly 1/3 of the series is complete(and you can bet they're all gonna be around 1000 pages or so, based on the books so far).

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

I know some people are angry that the blond girl went crazy or something because the tv series diverges from the book with regards to darkness and characterization but somehow retains the same ending as the book but I wonder if that's alleviated if you just read the book.

Well, the inherent issue now is that while the show is finished, the books certinatly aren't. 5 books are published with 2 more apparently on the way. However, GRR Martin has been taking his time writing them and each book has been taking longer then the last. The last book was published 8 years ago and he refuses to comment on when the next one will be done(other to say they aren't done yet, because one of the show actors said he heard they were finished). But there is more then enough written to just start reading now and hope the next one at least has a release date by the time you finish(unless you read super fast).

I've read the first 3. I keep telling myself I'm not starting on 4 and 5 until he's at least announced when book 6 is coming out, but I'm starting to get worried he's gonna die of old age/health issues before he finishes the saga. The man is 70 and he doesn't look like he's in fantastic health and Brandon Sanderson is writing his own massive fantasy epic so it's unlikely he'll be able bail him out if he kicks it like he did with Robert Jordan.

Oh wow, it's funny you mention Sanderson since I'm in the middle of reading the third Stormlight book as we speak. Really loving that series so far. And yeah these books are massive and 3000~ pages in nothing is nearly concluded yet lol.


But yeah, sounds like it's worth getting into the books for now.

I re-read the first stormlight book recently and enjoyed it. I have the other two on my shelf waiting for me, but I need a break between 1000+ page epics. Apparently Sanderson is planning to write 10 of them so roughly 1/3 of the series is complete(and you can bet they're all gonna be around 1000 pages or so, based on the books so far).

I kinda blazed through them at about 2 weeks per book over the last month so this is very timely of a moment to bring them up. Though with the pace he's going I'll prolly die waiting for the series to be fully done XD.

Each is larger than the prior so far, book 3 is around 1200~ pages. And man, book 1 is the slowest of the 3, so I strongly recommend you getting into the next one. Though you may not wanna look too closely at the third book's cover cause spoilers XD.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

My question is the same. For what purpose? The wildlings are severely reduced in number and likely won't be a problem in future. And the White Walkers are all dead. There doesn't seem to be much of a purpose in having a wall, let alone people to watch it.

I think the point was, Grey Worm didn't know that. The dumb ball-less bastard drug Tyrion out before a council of his own countrymen for a trial when his own outnumbered forces now occupied the least defensible and most treacherous position in Westeros, knowing full well how trying him works out for the accused. He literally stood there and let Tyrion talk his way into picking his own judge and jury, then stood there looking like somebody cut his cock off all over again when it didn't go his way.

Grey Worm is lucky he, the Unsullied, and the twelve remaining Dothraki were allowed to part Westeros, in peace, as free men. You know, only for Grey Worm to order sailing straight for Plague Island. Is it that much of a stretch they conned Grey Worm into believing that giving Jon everything he actually wanted, was a punishment?

I mean, the only thing keeping Westeros from another, bigger, even bloodier civil war at this point is Bran's Tree-Leto powers. He granted his family's domain independence to be ruled by his sister, but not Dorne or the Iron Islands which actually have standing armies and navies at this point, and appointed a lowborn sellsword Warden of the Reach. Not to mention naming the most hated man in Westeros Hand, and a disinherited noble of an eradicated House who is a deserter of both Night's Watch and Maester order, and a thief, Grand Maester. Bare minimum, Dorne's in a fantastic position to wage a war of independence and win, nothing stops the Ironborn from Reaving. Fucking. Everything., and the Reach is likely to rebel against Bronn to install one of their own as Warden.

It burns my brisket that Grey Worm got away with his war crimes without even something so minor as a slap on the wrist. At least he's taking the rest of his followers to an island where their skin will melt off due to toxic butterflies.

I wonder what will happen to the cities of slavers bay. After all, part of her enforcement of peace came from the fact that she threatened to return with her dragons. Now, two of those dragons are dead, and she's also gone. What's to stop them from re-instituting slavery?

At least Ghost was reunited with his master. Good boy.

Lots of people got away with their war crimes. Everyone likes to casually forget that Tormund slaughtered multiple villages of innocent people just to piss off The Night's Watch.

I've never forgiven him for that. And it's why I don't blame Olly and the others who despise specific wildlings. They have good cause.

Olly killed Jon, not Tormund. Fuck Olly.

Jon basically pardoned all the wildlings despite their reeving of the mostly defenseless peasants. Olly's stabbing was entirely predictable.

Predictable, but not justified. I don't hate Olly for killing Ygritte. I hate Olly for killing Jon. If he killed Tormund I also would not have faulted him.

I guess that's a fair way of looking at it, even if I can't fault him for stabbing Jon.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I now feel entirely vindicated in my prediction that GoT would end in a fiery train wreck. This episode was slow and while I can kind of appreciate the send off of the Starks', it also took way too much time and mostly made me realize how little I thought of any of these characters (maybe bar Sansa) as anything but puppets the show had moved around as needed for the last three seasons.

Disposing Dany 30 minutes after she's gone Mad Queen and without any real stake building apart from making Jon feel bad for killing his lover also felt way too rushed, but that's on the level of the rest of this season and its breakneck pace to just get it all over with.

I've got plenty of criticism for this episode. I do. But I honestly feel relieved that this show, that I loved for the first four seasons and despised for the last three, has finally come to an end. I don't need to dwell on it, now I can focus on actual good writing on television again.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I now feel entirely vindicated in my prediction that GoT would end in a fiery train wreck. This episode was slow and while I can kind of appreciate the send off of the Starks', it also took way too much time and mostly made me realize how little I thought of any of these characters (maybe bar Sansa) as anything but puppets the show had moved around as needed for the last three seasons.

Disposing Dany 30 minutes after she's gone Mad Queen and without any real stake building apart from making Jon feel bad for killing his lover also felt way too rushed, but that's on the level of the rest of this season and its breakneck pace to just get it all over with.

I've got plenty of criticism for this episode. I do. But I honestly feel relieved that this show, that I loved for the first four seasons and despised for the last three, has finally come to an end. I don't need to dwell on it, now I can focus on actual good writing on television again.

I don't know why you thought Season 4 was still good, half of it had writing that was equally bad as what came after.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

So, i watched the Finale yesterday. And two of my predictions turned out to be true: That Drogon will melt the Iron Throne(which actually played out in a dumber way than i imagined), and that either Jon or Arya will kill Dany.
I expected Arya to have more to do in this episode, tbh...
Overall, i'm not sure if the final ep was worse than the last one; audiences, though still dissapointed seem to agree. But, i don't know if it's not the case of last one presenting such a "bold" decision, that all the minor bad ones in this one don't feel as offensive.
Either way, rather than a giant trainwreck, it ended as kind of a flaccid fart?

Although! One, IMPORTANT fumble have been fixed:

Spoiler: Good Job

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

I think like there are still couple of reamaining questions though:

Why did Drogon melt the Iron throne? Why did he destroy the throne in a fit of rage, and not anything/anyone else?
Was it cause he somehow knew that this throne represents the proverbial Wheel that his mother wanted to break, a cause and symbol of all the misery Seven Kingdoms had to suffer? Or was it cause "Bad Spiky Thing hurt mommy"?

Why didn't he kill Jon, despite still warm body of his mother lying next to him? Is it cause he's still just an animal after all, that can't connect the dots? Did he forgive him? Is it because of the Targaryen blood? What was that black goo?

So after he took the body to the Avalon Undying Lands There be dragons whatever, how would anyone be sure that Daenerys is dead? There was a pool of blood there, but would that be enough to determine that?
Would Jon just- of course he would tell them. Scratch that paragraph.

If Dany was technically a Khaal, and Jon killed her, wouldn't that make him the next Khaal? Who leads the Dothraki now?
Did they decide to just peace out, instead of going pillaging and raping around Westeros?

Why did Grey Worm agree to that deal? He seemed understandably angry about Jon's deeds, why would he trust his relatives' words? What will Unsullied do once they reach Naath? Grey Worm has a sentimental reason to go there, will they just become mercenaries now?

Why send Jon "Queenslayer" Snow back to the Night's Watch?

There is still a Night's Watch?

Aren't The Wall and Castle Black effectively useless now?

Where and when did Arya learn to sail? Is there a fantasy version of Americas west to Westeros?
Will we see her again in GoT2: A Song of Sail and Colonization?

What was up with that "peace" council? Who decides whos vote matter? Seems like it would be important when electing the King of Seven Kingdoms? Why are the Dorne and Ironborn okay with the North being independent, while their lands remain subservent?

Did Yara not even mention Theon with a single word? She does know her brother's dead, right?

Why is Bronn even on King's council? Why would he care? Does Bran need a Master of Whispers if he can see everything?

Did they just rip off Return of the King with that book scene?

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I think like there are still couple of reamaining questions though:

Why did Drogon melt the Iron throne? Why did he destroy the throne in a fit of rage, and not anything/anyone else?
Was it cause he somehow knew that this throne represents the proverbial Wheel that his mother wanted to break, a cause and symbol of all the misery Seven Kingdoms had to suffer? Or was it cause "Bad Spiky Thing hurt mommy"?

Why didn't he kill Jon, despite still warm body of his mother lying next to him? Is it cause he's still just an animal after all, that can't connect the dots? Did he forgive him? Is it because of the Targaryen blood? What was that black goo?

So after he took the body to the Avalon Undying Lands There be dragons whatever, how would anyone be sure that Daenerys is dead?
There was a pool of blood there, but would that be enough to determine that?
Would Jon just- of course he would tell them. Scratch that paragraph.

If Dany was technically a Khaal, and Jon killed her, wouldn't that make him the next Khaal? Who leads the Dothraki now?
Did they decide to just peace out, instead of going pillaging and raping around Westeros?

Why did Grey Worm agree to that deal? He seemed understandably angry about Jon's deeds, why would he trust his relatives' words? What will Unsullied do once they reach Naath? Grey Worm has a sentimental reason to go there, will they just become mercenaries now?

Why send Jon "Queenslayer" Snow back to the Night's Watch?

There is still a Night's Watch?

Aren't The Wall and Castle Black effectively useless now?

Where and when did Arya learn to sail? Is there a fantasy version of Americas west to Westeros?
Will we see her again in GoT2: A Song of Sail and Colonization?

What was up with that "peace" council? Who decides whos vote matter? Seems like it would be important when electing the King of Seven Kingdoms? Why are the Dorne and Ironborn okay with the North being independent, while their lands remain subservent?

Did Yara not even mention Theon with a single word? She does know her brother's dead, right?

Why is Bronn even on King's council? Why would he care? Does Bran need a Master of Whispers if he can see everything?

Did they just rip off Return of the King with that book scene?

I am totally calling it that Samwell will live and make a book about this whole story in Martin's yet to come novels.

 

[Hawki]

So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

Show. The books are very solid for the first three, then gets "bleh" for the last two, and Martin's still not released books 6 and 7. It's pretty clear that Martin's way in over his head at this point.

Not only has the show finished, but even season 7 (the weakest season I've seen) is still much better than most fantasy TV shows.

And man, book 1 is the slowest of the 3,

Oh really? I never would have guessed.

Yeah, remember when I used to be a Sanderson fanboy on this site, before I realized that it was less about Sanderson, and more just about Mistborn?

Good times.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I think like there are still couple of reamaining questions though:

Why did Drogon melt the Iron throne? Why did he destroy the throne in a fit of rage, and not anything/anyone else?
Was it cause he somehow knew that this throne represents the proverbial Wheel that his mother wanted to break, a cause and symbol of all the misery Seven Kingdoms had to suffer? Or was it cause "Bad Spiky Thing hurt mommy"?

I thought that was fairly obvious that Drogon knew that she wanted to sit on the iron throne. And she can't, no one else will get to sit on it either.

 

[Baffle]

Yeah, remember when I used to be a Sanderson fanboy on this site, before I realized that it was less about Sanderson, and more just about Mistborn?

But Mistborn is shit, surely?

 

[Hawki]

Yeah, remember when I used to be a Sanderson fanboy on this site, before I realized that it was less about Sanderson, and more just about Mistborn?

But Mistborn is shit, surely?

Um...no?

 

[Baffle]

Yeah, remember when I used to be a Sanderson fanboy on this site, before I realized that it was less about Sanderson, and more just about Mistborn?

But Mistborn is shit, surely?

Um...no?

Ah, my mistake, must be thinking of a different book with the same title.

It's a long time since I read my version of Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson; I recall the world-building being good but the characters just all over the place and prone to behaving in whatever way was convenient for moving the plot forward (which makes Sanderson a shoo-in for finishing Robert Jordan's work).

(The copy I read also had an unedited draft of the first chapter of the next book at the back and, holy shit, he must have a good editor.)

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Ok. It's over. The finale was ... ok-ish? I guess? Everybody who's still alive pretty much gets their happy ending (cept Edmure. LOL). I felt it was kind of boring, but that might just be in juxtaposition to the more high octane episodes that preceded it. The ending was likely to disappoint whichever way they took things, so whatever, it's fine. But let's nitpick anyway, because it's fun and it seems to be the thing to do.

First off, does Jon as a Targaryen have Dany's apparent immunity to fire too? Cuz it seems like having your face a meter away from a sustained stream of fire hot enough to melt steel and stone into a puddle in less than a minute should at least singe your eyebrows. Oooh, this is fun. What can we ***** about now?

Ok, yeah, that council presiding over Tyrion's trial and subsequent choosing of a king. Not sure why Brienne, Sam, Davos and Arya are on it since none of them have much in the way of actual political clout. No lands, or wealth, or the all important armies. Early seasons made a point of it that titles mean nothing without the power to back them up, so I'm assuming they're there because they're surviving named characters.

Oh, Edmure Tully was also there, still alive and all. Head of a Great House, but also a massive *****, so he gets told to sit his ass back down.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Apparently a few plastic water bottles are visible in one scene, and people are annoyed.

 

[Baffle]

Apparently a few plastic water bottles are visible in one scene, and people are annoyed.

They do say that plastic bottles are hard to get rid of.

 

[Sonmi]

So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

I know some people are angry that the blond girl went crazy or something because the tv series diverges from the book with regards to darkness and characterization but somehow retains the same ending as the book but I wonder if that's alleviated if you just read the book.

Don't watch past season 4.

Books are good, but be prepared with frustration at the author dragging his feet and taking forever to release any new content if you ever get involved with the series. It's been fucking two years since he released Aeron I.