It's not just gamers, people in general just feel the need to make social issues out of everything these days. I blame social media.
Gamers make bad feminists
- Thread starter Rude as HECK
- Start date
im not even a republican, nor do i listen to any right wing...anything.Worgen said:
but i agree with the other poster's definition. feminism is not about equality anymore. it is either about A. men should suffer for past sins or B. women should be superior to men and should be treated as such.
like so many things, what was once a good and pure movement has now been twisted into something dark and self serving. It is not the first, and it wont be the last. This does not diminish the movement's past accomplishes however.
I agree with the other two who said feminism is not about equality. Why? Well, one example: A female "equal opportunity commissioner" got fired because she took the "equal" part of her job description serious and started to get interested in the problems of men.Worgen said:
You are not making any sense at all.
What exactly do those tweets have to do with feminism or that bloody Hitman trailer? It sounds like Jim was amused by some boobs in Farcry 3 and impressed by the graphics while Miraclelofsound didn't like Ubisoft's host.
What exactly do those tweets have to do with feminism or that bloody Hitman trailer? It sounds like Jim was amused by some boobs in Farcry 3 and impressed by the graphics while Miraclelofsound didn't like Ubisoft's host.
Well, I'm not quite sure on the issue, aside from that trying to market something to me by using sex is a bad idea. For one thing, the fact I don't get any has me trying to stay away from most things sexual...as to avoid reminding myself that I don't get any. On a better and far wider spread note (wider spread than my own deranged mind, that is), it almost always comes off like you have nothing else to show me, that you're trying to cover up a bad product in sex appeal. Also, like most people I should think, I'm a little embarassed by the concept of buying something publically that has a half naked woman on it. The games store clerk looks at you, you look back, either he does a bad poker face or worse, a horrific wink and a dirty smile.
Though I've always had a theory on sexism in nerd culture. Think about it, how many of us were treated well by females as kids? Or at least, from our point of view, let's not get into dissecting the friend zone here? Exactly. Maybe in the next generation of nerds things'll change, but nerds were not popular with the ladies back in my day, and methinks that some nerds now have grown up thinking that because a few girls didn't respect them, they can disrespect womankind as a whole.
Not right, of course, but I always find it interesting to think about why people do things that they know aren't right.
Though I've always had a theory on sexism in nerd culture. Think about it, how many of us were treated well by females as kids? Or at least, from our point of view, let's not get into dissecting the friend zone here? Exactly. Maybe in the next generation of nerds things'll change, but nerds were not popular with the ladies back in my day, and methinks that some nerds now have grown up thinking that because a few girls didn't respect them, they can disrespect womankind as a whole.
Not right, of course, but I always find it interesting to think about why people do things that they know aren't right.
You know what I think of this... fuck it. Fuck women, fuck hitman, fuck men, fuck you, fuck me and fuck everyone. God these threads are boring.
EDIT: If the hitman scene was in a Killbill movie or some other grind house movie it wouldn't of raised a fucking eyebrow. It's basically a non-issue.
EDIT: If the hitman scene was in a Killbill movie or some other grind house movie it wouldn't of raised a fucking eyebrow. It's basically a non-issue.
I'm kind of confused by the whole Hitman trailer. Not the reaction, but the trailer itself.
Me personally, I'm probably reading waaay too much into it, but I saw it as almost satirical: typically when we have female assassins in games, we end up with these ridiculous fetishized Ninjas, who leap around daintily with their waif-fu, and their attacks seem more suggestive than effective.
Whilst the Hitman trailer had a character who, while male, is for the most part asexual, who had no interest in the sexual connotations of the assassins, and dealt with them as he does most things: Brutal murder, which had nothing to do with titillation (In my mind).
I'm probably reading too much into it though: It is more likely that they simply went: "We'll combine Hitman with sexaully exploitative imagery!" I just can't imagine how deluded they'd have to be to decide that the brutality fits with that aim of titillation.
Also, I didn't get was the decision to make the trailer effectively about a brawl, a fight I'd feel fits more into Assassins Creed, and doesn't fit with Hitman's typical gameplay at all.
More OT: I think that the problem is that people in general are bad at deciding what's exploitation or not, and whether something is by nature offensive, or offensive based on a certain perspective which deviates from the norm. I can understand why people find the trailer offensive: A man brutally assaults a bunch of women, who happen to be dressed as fetishised nuns. Without any context of similar treatment to both genders, it seems unfair to the women.
Also, to those who'd blanketly group all feminists together: I can't explain how wrong this is. There are all manner of feminists, in fact, as with any label without distinct organisation and membership criteria, the label is not always perfect. There's all sorts of Christians, Atheists, Feminists, Gamers, Artists, you see where I'm going. If you can put an "ist" on it, chances are it's a broad group. And since most of these groups aren't enforcing a particular ideal, apart from a general agreement on one tennet, they may all think differently. Assuming that everyone in the group is the same is risky, especially when we're only taking the worst into consideration. As gamers, we generally don't like being grouped in that way, so we should be a little more considerate of the potential for labels to be misused.
Me personally, I'm probably reading waaay too much into it, but I saw it as almost satirical: typically when we have female assassins in games, we end up with these ridiculous fetishized Ninjas, who leap around daintily with their waif-fu, and their attacks seem more suggestive than effective.
Whilst the Hitman trailer had a character who, while male, is for the most part asexual, who had no interest in the sexual connotations of the assassins, and dealt with them as he does most things: Brutal murder, which had nothing to do with titillation (In my mind).
I'm probably reading too much into it though: It is more likely that they simply went: "We'll combine Hitman with sexaully exploitative imagery!" I just can't imagine how deluded they'd have to be to decide that the brutality fits with that aim of titillation.
Also, I didn't get was the decision to make the trailer effectively about a brawl, a fight I'd feel fits more into Assassins Creed, and doesn't fit with Hitman's typical gameplay at all.
More OT: I think that the problem is that people in general are bad at deciding what's exploitation or not, and whether something is by nature offensive, or offensive based on a certain perspective which deviates from the norm. I can understand why people find the trailer offensive: A man brutally assaults a bunch of women, who happen to be dressed as fetishised nuns. Without any context of similar treatment to both genders, it seems unfair to the women.
Also, to those who'd blanketly group all feminists together: I can't explain how wrong this is. There are all manner of feminists, in fact, as with any label without distinct organisation and membership criteria, the label is not always perfect. There's all sorts of Christians, Atheists, Feminists, Gamers, Artists, you see where I'm going. If you can put an "ist" on it, chances are it's a broad group. And since most of these groups aren't enforcing a particular ideal, apart from a general agreement on one tennet, they may all think differently. Assuming that everyone in the group is the same is risky, especially when we're only taking the worst into consideration. As gamers, we generally don't like being grouped in that way, so we should be a little more considerate of the potential for labels to be misused.
OMG You're the best. I shall join you.boag said:
Anime is the best form of story-telling!
Men who go by the name Yahtzee are objectively the sexiest men alive!
Catherine is the only game to spark a 'real' discussion on sex...EVER!
That was fun.
Slightly OT: So some tweets were quoted. The day a tweet can be taken seriously is the day that...I can't think of a witty way to end that sentence because you people don't deserve one.
I always took twitter to be a place where people can broadcast the boring shit they do to others and make the occasional bad joke in context. I never knew it had become a place of such seriousness that we can all judge a person as a whole based on a single tweet. I am amazed at how far technology has brought us.
Thank you Spaghetti Monster in the sky, you have lead your people bravely into modern era.
Also, thank you Zappanale for being brave and intelligent enough to call out those twats who would think themselves as helping the cause of women everywhere. I mean, if you're going to help wrong then they shouldn't even be trying to help at all should they?
Those ignorant fools.
Eeeeeeehhhhhh....Cranky said:
Make a gamertag on xbox live with a very "game-y gurl xD" name, play for about a month, and you'll get a bit more insight. And that's not mentioning all other harassments done behind closed doors on workplaces, homes, etc.
Just saying. Shit happens to this day.
OT; It's been a long time since I've ever actually seen people complain about a freaking trailer that tells nearly nothing about the game. It's just a showpiece, and not the game itself. I find the people 'boycotting' the GAME for its TRAILER are being fairly ridiculous, but it is their time, patience and money so who am I to complain?
I wouldn't change my tone if it were 6 men in latex sexualized and ready to kill one man outside a motel. But then again, mayhap I am of that crowd o' gamers that can't find anything odd about this kind of thing anymore. Because it certainly is odd; just not provoking me in the slightest.
Yeah, I don't see what the big deal with the hitman trailer is.
So there's women dressed in what I'm assuming is meant to be attractive clothing [I can't see that myself, but W/E]. This is inherently wrong because?
Oh, oh, there's violence against them. But if the trailer had of been about Hitman killing guys in suits and ties it would have been fine?
What's that? It encourages violence against women or some BS? Well I'm sure him beating down guys in suits and ties would encourage violence against businessmen as well then right?
Seriously. If anyone disagrees with me, please point out what is so inherently wrong with what is shown in that trailer, 'cause I'm not seeing it personally.
So there's women dressed in what I'm assuming is meant to be attractive clothing [I can't see that myself, but W/E]. This is inherently wrong because?
Oh, oh, there's violence against them. But if the trailer had of been about Hitman killing guys in suits and ties it would have been fine?
What's that? It encourages violence against women or some BS? Well I'm sure him beating down guys in suits and ties would encourage violence against businessmen as well then right?
Seriously. If anyone disagrees with me, please point out what is so inherently wrong with what is shown in that trailer, 'cause I'm not seeing it personally.
If I may, the reason I think people are talking about this issue at this time, is not particularly to do with the fact it is women being beaten up, but rather a purile male fantasy of women. It is that fact that a group of overly sexualised women wearing fetish outfits are beaten up and killed by a single man.
Arguably some people my say this is showing male domination, by use of force over "weaker women". Considering that these women are arguably being shown off as sex objects (rarely if ever do we see men in the male variants of these costumes), it suggests that women are not people and men (I would presume the majority of the audience of this game) own them and that they are possessions, allowing you can do what you want with them.
Now I doubt that that is what the developers or publishers of this game are alluding to, I think it was a most likely a series of bad calls by a marketing department.
I feel that if these women had been wearing sensible clothes, rather than fetish outfits, there were maybe less of them or a mix of men and women (I will concede that this would make the name of the assassins' group make little sense).
Arguably some people my say this is showing male domination, by use of force over "weaker women". Considering that these women are arguably being shown off as sex objects (rarely if ever do we see men in the male variants of these costumes), it suggests that women are not people and men (I would presume the majority of the audience of this game) own them and that they are possessions, allowing you can do what you want with them.
Now I doubt that that is what the developers or publishers of this game are alluding to, I think it was a most likely a series of bad calls by a marketing department.
I feel that if these women had been wearing sensible clothes, rather than fetish outfits, there were maybe less of them or a mix of men and women (I will concede that this would make the name of the assassins' group make little sense).
I am confused. If they have equal rights, does that also mean they have the right to leave the kitchen? Because that doesn't sound right.Marv666 said:
OT: I am not sure what you're going on, but you're using two examples to prove your case? How many gamers are there in the world? Millions you say? This is a really bad generalization that clearly doesn't take in the entire gaming community at all.