Games that are great...except for the game part.

The Rogue Wolf

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It was also really difficult to know just what you were supposed to do by logically sussing it out and instead it was a lot of of "Die, avoid the thing that killed you(Hopefully) and probably die to something else 5 seconds later.
Heck, you could literally die in each of the first two screens just from not moving for a few seconds.
 
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Dalisclock

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Get ready to throw things at me:

Dark Souls.

A beautifully-desolate world, with ambiance and history oozing from every crack, fleshed-out characters and amazing architecture... but to see any of it you have to slog through combat that goes past punishing mistakes to punishing imperfection.
One also has to appreciate how it occasionally requires platforming but doesn't have any real platforming controls to speak of. Who decided the JUMP button was pressing down on the analog stick?

At least Sekiro realized there needs to be dedicated platforming controls for a game with platforming.
 

NerfedFalcon

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Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War has one of the best stories in the franchise... married to some of the worst map design and mechanics. Enemies are set down in blobs of a dozen of a single unit with no real thought, maps require you to spend most of your time walking back and forth unless you know in advance where all the story triggers are, units can't even double attack or get critical hits without having specific skills even though it's a cornerstone of the franchise's tactics, and the Holy Weapons just destroy the game's balance entirely, to say nothing of Sigurd's silver sword. Also, it's responsible for creating Shipping Emblem, and it's the most obtuse and difficult implementation of it.

If you really want to make your own pairings, then it may still be worth playing, but if not, watch someone else play it and save yourself the frustration and boredom. (Make sure to put 'Project Naga' in the search keywords as well so you get the better translation.)
 

Dirty Hipsters

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-Mass Effect: Much as I love this game, the actual moment to moment gameplay isn't that great. Shooting is balls, the Mako is balls, etc. One of those very rare occasions where a game is mostly carried on its story/world for me.
Yup, can't say I disagree. Really didn't like the gameplay of Mass Effect 1, and never finished it. Considered playing through ME2 and 3 because they significantly improved the combat but then 3's ending happened and it just didn't seem worth it to get invested.
 

Gordon_4

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Yup, can't say I disagree. Really didn't like the gameplay of Mass Effect 1, and never finished it. Considered playing through ME2 and 3 because they significantly improved the combat but then 3's ending happened and it just didn't seem worth it to get invested.
Step 1. Get it on PC

Step 2. Install Mass Effect 3 Happy Ending mod

Step 3. ?????

Step 4. Profit!
 

happyninja42

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The Last of Us. Still playing it currently for first time.

I enjoy the story elements of the characters, and my wife and I especially enjoy the little "time-filler" bits of banter between characters. Like when Ellie gets out her book of puns and starts to tell them to Joel.

But the mechanics, holy shit I hate the mechanics. The stealth is shit, the combat is terrible, there is zero room for error if you are around a clicker, they just glom onto you and eat you, unless you've bothered to buy a very expensive shiv upgrade...which if you've run out of shivs you're fucked. The game will just sometimes decide that a stealth kill wasn't a stealth kill, for no discernible reason, and even though you are dozens of yards away from every other badguy, and you technically did a choke kill on a dude, suddenly EVERYONE knows exactly where you are, like laser focused on you, and come running all at once. There is no defensive mechanic like dodge or roll or anything if you get into melee. You can occasionally get a button prompt to block a melee attack, if you happen to have a melee weapon yourself. If not, well fuck you I guess. And it only works against one person, which means it's basically useless if you are getting mobbed, which you usually are.

It's not fun, it's just a session in frustration. I got tired of aggroing every infected in one particular sequence and bumped it down to Easy difficulty, because frankly fuck that games combat system.

Story's great, gameplay sucks ass.
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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The Last of Us.

I enjoy the story elements of the characters, and my wife and I especially enjoy the little "time-filler" bits of banter between characters. Like when Ellie gets out her book of puns and starts to tell them to Joel.

But the mechanics, holy shit I hate the mechanics. The stealth is shit, the combat is terrible, there is zero room for error if you are around a clicker, they just glom onto you and eat you, unless you've bothered to buy a very expensive shiv upgrade...which if you've run out of shivs you're fucked. The game will just sometimes decide that a stealth kill wasn't a stealth kill, for no discernible reason, and even though you are dozens of yards away from every other badguy, and you technically did a choke kill on a dude, suddenly EVERYONE knows exactly where you are, like laser focused on you, and come running all at once. There is no defensive mechanic like dodge or roll or anything if you get into melee. You can occasionally get a button prompt to block a melee attack, if you happen to have a melee weapon yourself. If not, well fuck you I guess. And it only works against one person, which means it's basically useless if you are getting mobbed, which you usually are.

It's not fun, it's just a session in frustration. I got tired of aggroing every infected in one particular sequence and bumped it down to Easy difficulty, because frankly fuck that games combat system.

Story's great, gameplay sucks ass.
I have a friend who came over to my house to play The Last Of Us when the PS4 remaster came out, because he had never played it. I had finished the game on the PS3, but had gotten the remaster for free. He had much the same reaction to the game's stealth and combat as you and kept saying that the stealth and combat were bullshit.

Then I showed him that you can get through all of the non-scripted gameplay segments using nothing but a brick.

The stealth actually isn't bad, it just doesn't work the way that you think it does. The enemies are simultaneously smarter and dumber than you think they are and are very easy to exploit if you know how their awareness works. The clickers especially are very easy to kill. You can stand directly in front of them without alerting them so long as you aren't moving when they start their echo-location. You can literally stealth kill them from the front by letting them walk into you.
 
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Drathnoxis

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-Conker's Bad Fur Day: This is kind of a weird one, because when I played this game, there's a lot of it I didn't actually enjoy playing. It's kind of a linear platformer, where the really fun stuff (zombies/tediz/Matrix stuff) is towards the end, or in the multiplayer. That said, the game is arguably carried on its writing. And by writing, I mean profanity.
Conker's Bad Fur Day is kind of crap mechanically. The controls don't really feel good at all. Despite that, it's still the best Rare platformer I've played on the N64. Banjo Kazooie and especially DK64 were such slogs. Conker was concise, and paced pretty well.
 
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Hawki

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Conker's Bad Fur Day is kind of crap mechanically. The controls don't really feel good at all. Despite that, it's still the best Rare platformer I've played on the N64. Banjo Kazooie and especially DK64 were such slogs. Conker was concise, and paced pretty well.
As far as the actual platforming goes, Conker's easily the worst of the three. The reason I put it above DK64, if not Banjo, is that its standout gameplay is a lot of fun (see above, plus the multiplayer), and its writing.

Conker's obstensibly a platformer, but it's really just going from one scenario to the next.

Step 1. Get it on PC

Step 2. Install Mass Effect 3 Happy Ending mod

Step 3. ?????

Step 4. Profit!
Step 5: Release Mass Effect: Andromeda, and remind everyone that the series can still get worse. :(
 
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happyninja42

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The clickers especially are very easy to kill. You can stand directly in front of them without alerting them so long as you aren't moving when they start their echo-location. You can literally stealth kill them from the front by letting them walk into you.
I'm aware they are easy to kill, they aren't my problem. It's the dozen other infected variants they are mixed in with, that can see me just fine, and spot me while I'm trying to sneak up on anyone to kill them, which then agros the clicker, which eats me. It's just clunky as hell and annoying. If you're entire stealth system is so janky that the best way to beat it is to not do it at all, and just use a brick to bypass all of it, then why even have the system in the first place? If actually engaging in the stealth/combat is that bad, it's not well designed.
 
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Dalisclock

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I'm aware they are easy to kill, they aren't my problem. It's the dozen other infected variants they are mixed in with, that can see me just fine, and spot me while I'm trying to sneak up on anyone to kill them, which then agros the clicker, which eats me. It's just clunky as hell and annoying. If you're entire stealth system is so janky that the best way to beat it is to not do it at all, and just use a brick to bypass all of it, then why even have the system in the first place? If actually engaging in the stealth/combat is that bad, it's not well designed.
I don't know if you've noticed, but Ellie is literally invisible to enemies when she's an NPC and the plot doesn't call for her to be in danger. She can scamper around a room full of enemies, sometimes in full view of the ones who can see her and they won't react.

I've seen video footage of her actually bumping into an enemy and them not even noticing her.

 

hanselthecaretaker

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I think that's fun because when you win you know you attained perfection and feel perfectly powerful due to that. Though you get such a feel more in Sekiro than in Souls imo because Souls still has a lot of valid gimmicky approaches with magic and so on whereas Sekiro you gotta learn to parry stuff or die a million times in each fight lol.
Yeah Souls and even Bloodborne are a lot more forgiving than Sekiro imo, from the few bosses I’ve played so far. To do well in Sekiro you need to find the rhythm of each major encounter, in both offense and defense. SoulsBorne allows a good deal of cheesy slop if you level or spec for it, but on the other hand that only gets one so far late against a lot of game bosses especially in later games’ DLC.

I don't know if you've noticed, but Ellie is literally invisible to enemies when she's an NPC and the plot doesn't call for her to be in danger. She can scamper around a room full of enemies, sometimes in full view of the ones who can see her and they won't react.

I've seen video footage of her actually bumping into an enemy and them not even noticing her.

It’s very immersion-breaking, and it happens in the sequel too with companions. I don’t think it’s possible to do well in stealth based games, and it’s why Atreus from God of War worked so much better.
 
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laggyteabag

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Another one for Mass Effect 1. The story is great, but the combat and driving is just the worst.

The first time I played it, I was actually really enjoying it - but that was probably mostly due to being very invested in the story. Going back to replay it after ME2 and ME3, and I found it really difficult to stomach. Its not like ME2's or ME3's combat systems are particularly groundbreaking, but ME1's is just uniquely terrible.

I was really hoping for a ME Remaster to be announced, with a rebalanced ME1, to bring it in line with the other two games in the trilogy - optional, of course - but I guess that never happened.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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Undertale I think I could be able to like and finish if it weren't for the gameplay, especially the annoying heart minigane on a controller.

Telltale is marginally better in that sense for keeping progress, but no more exciting in the gameplay department. I can at least "tolerate" it for the story.
 

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The Witcher 3 - Love this game to bits. But its gear and inventory system, Jesus Christ. The inventory screen is ridiculously slow and unresponsive for a game renders a beautiful, teeming game world with almost no effort. And the shit that they fill it up with... Swords are cool, I guess, but there's maybe only a handful that you can actually tell apart from each other when you're slicing monsters. All the armor looks authentic (maybe?), but so many of them are so fucking ugly. They make Geralt look like a tubby little monster slayer. There are some good ones thankfully, but the ridiculous amount of effort they put into shit that you would never want to use is a little sad.

Titanfall 2 - I might get some flak for this, but I think the Titan combat in the game is kinda lame. None of the guns feel nice in a game where infantry weapons are as smooth as butter, and chugging around the map feels off when you've just been flying through the air like an angel of death.

Uncharted Series - The climbing man, the climbing. Its a fun mechanic to have, but not the one you put front and center. Climbing around and jumping from place to place feels awesome in combat or setpieces, but when they have entire sections of just climbing, it gets old fast.

Arkham Knight - The Batmobile and the story are obvious contenders, but somehow I feel the signature Arkham stealth got worse. Your enemies are now trained soldiers instead of cowardly and superstitious criminals, so picking them off one by one is not as fun. Its also confusing that after 3 games, they never bothered to deal with the problem of unlimited Detective Vision. They made this amazing, beautiful world that I saw mostly through a shitty filter. It made the stealth a little too easy as well.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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The Witcher 3 - Love this game to bits. But its gear and inventory system, Jesus Christ. The inventory screen is ridiculously slow and unresponsive for a game renders a beautiful, teeming game world with almost no effort. And the shit that they fill it up with... Swords are cool, I guess, but there's maybe only a handful that you can actually tell apart from each other when you're slicing monsters. All the armor looks authentic (maybe?), but so many of them are so fucking ugly. They make Geralt look like a tubby little monster slayer. There are some good ones thankfully, but the ridiculous amount of effort they put into shit that you would never want to use is a little sad.
I couldn't get into the Witcher series because the combat is not very good, and there's too many side quests and the main quest takes too many hours to get good. After 30 hours of playing Witcher 3 I was burned out on the gameplay and hadn't even met Ciri yet. Probably should have just bee-lined the main quest, but what's the point of having the main story take so long to actually get going?

Also, I put Witcher 1 and 2 down after 4 hours because the combat is atrocious.

Still, I really love the art design of the Witcher games, and I appreciate the armor in particular. The main thing I'm super impressed by is the fact that none of the armor has any clipping issues. It's amazing how much work they put into that. The second thing is how realistic a lot of the armors are. Yes, tons of them are gaudy and make Geralt look fat. Those are gambeson armors, which are portrayed in a very historically accurate way. They were basically padded armor and were surprisingly effective. Yes, leather armor looks a lot more sleak and cool, but it was also a hell of a lot less effective and useful, so I appreciate the historical accuracy.

Titanfall 2 - I might get some flak for this, but I think the Titan combat in the game is kinda lame. None of the guns feel nice in a game where infantry weapons are as smooth as butter, and chugging around the map feels off when you've just been flying through the air like an angel of death.
Can't agree more. Titanfall 2 is a great game, and I think that the Titan combat is fun in small doses, so the campaign works, but in terms of the multiplayer I think the Titans are actually detrimental to the game. The most fun part of the game is the pilot combat, but all of the Titanfall maps are designed to have Titans walking around in them so there has to be tons of empty space for them to move around. This goes completely against the dense level design that is required for pilot combat to be interesting. That's why Call of Duty Black Ops 3 is the better experience. Yes, they ripped off the Titanfall movement system, but then they actually designed the multiplayer around it, and it's way more fun than Titanfall's multiplayer.

The Titanfall 2 campaign is amazing though. Incredibly fun and creative level design.
 
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happyninja42

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I don't know if you've noticed, but Ellie is literally invisible to enemies when she's an NPC and the plot doesn't call for her to be in danger. She can scamper around a room full of enemies, sometimes in full view of the ones who can see her and they won't react.

I've seen video footage of her actually bumping into an enemy and them not even noticing her.

Oh I'm well aware of that. My wife and I would amuse ourselves with adlibing dialogue when it was incredibly silly. My favorite was a sequence where you are sneaking past a checkpoint, and you are with 2 other survivors. 2 guards are standing there, and one comes up and starts their little convo with "have you seen those tourists we've been looking for?" and invariably, the adult survivor ally would wander right up behind their asses to "hide". I would always suddenly dub for that guy a line like "And what about you suspiciously looking black gentlemen who looks just like one of the tourists we are looking for? Have you seen anyone?"

Or when the various npcs would be like "we've gotta find that damn kid! the guy took her!! Don't let her get past you!" And Ellie is standing there right next to them. I'd dub them "You too young girl dressed like who we are looking for! Keep an eye out for her!"

It was hilariously ridiculous, and helped to soothe the frustration of the actual gameplay.

On that note, just finished the game about an hour ago. Gameplay sucks, I just gave up on trying to stealth anything, it's just too clunky. Not to mention the times the game forces you into open conflict. I just went full Rambo mode, things went easier usually. Story was good, the interplay with Ellie and Joel was enjoyable, but the really hard divide between gameplay, and story, was a bit jarring. It felt like episodes of a drama, interrupted by really annoying gameplay. Overall, I'd give it a 7/10, pretty much all for story. Gameplay was a fat 0/10 in my opinion, but the characters were enjoyable enough to suffer through it. I feel other games have done it much better since, like Days Gone. The weaving of the story drama into the actual post apocalyptic survival gameplay. Plus they had a much more varied cast of supporting characters, that had way more screentime, and character growth.
 

Dalisclock

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Also, I put Witcher 1 down after 4 hours because the combat is atrocious.
There are others I'm trying to come up with right now but this would be one of my examples.

I like the story in Witcher 1. I like the idea behind Witcher 1. I hate the gameplay and much of the presentation for Witcher 1. I've recommended to people numerous times to just watch a youtube version of the game and skip to Witcher 2 other then trying to deal with the gameplay.
 

Bob_McMillan

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Still, I really love the art design of the Witcher games, and I appreciate the armor in particular. The main thing I'm super impressed by is the fact that none of the armor has any clipping issues. It's amazing how much work they put into that. The second thing is how realistic a lot of the armors are.
Oh I agree that they look great. But what I can't understand is why they bothered to let Geralt use any of them. The last thing a Witcher should want is 50 pounds of plate armor bogging him down, especially when they wouldn't really help when a fucking cyclops is trying to step on you. I wish they had focused more on making a few better looking gear sets for Geralt, instead of the dozens available to you.

Can't agree more. Titanfall 2 is a great game, and I think that the Titan combat is fun in small doses, so the campaign works, but in terms of the multiplayer I think the Titans are actually detrimental to the game ...That's why Call of Duty Black Ops 3 is the better experience. Yes, they ripped off the Titanfall movement system, but then they actually designed the multiplayer around it, and it's way more fun than Titanfall's multiplayer.

The Titanfall 2 campaign is amazing though. Incredibly fun and creative level design.
I haven't played BO3, but I have watched a good deal of gameplay of it on YouTube, so I can't see how it could possibly be more fun than Titanfall 2. I mean, I agree, there are times when you're flitting around the map and you end up in a path designed for Titans, so the entire flow of your movement grinds to a halt. But still, the combo of the grappling hook and the free running mechanics... I wish every game could give you that feeling.

I also agree that the campaign is amazing. What a great ride that made use of every element of the gameplay.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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I haven't played BO3, but I have watched a good deal of gameplay of it on YouTube, so I can't see how it could possibly be more fun than Titanfall 2. I mean, I agree, there are times when you're flitting around the map and you end up in a path designed for Titans, so the entire flow of your movement grinds to a halt. But still, the combo of the grappling hook and the free running mechanics... I wish every game could give you that feeling.

I also agree that the campaign is amazing. What a great ride that made use of every element of the gameplay.
The problem with Titanfall's multiplayer is that the maps are designed for Titans, so the maps have to be huge, nut the lobby sizes are actually pretty small. Because of that the number of pilot fights per minute of gameplay is pretty low. That's why they filled the maps with AI robots, so that you have something to shoot while you're looking for other players, but the AIs aren't very strong and are unlikely to kill you. It's an unrewarding compromise. I came into multiplayer to fight against other players, not brain-dead AI.

The call of duty multiplayer levels are built entirely around fighting other players. They're better built, more compact, and have more fights per minute. You don't need to spend as much time just looking for other players.

The Titans in Titanfall get in the way of what made those games great, which is the movement system.