How about dropping prices for all the reasons people mentioned, and stop just focusing mainly on the Imperial factions in 40k.
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And that's fine, I'm not saying pay less attention to them, just more to the other factions.008Zulu said:
I wouldn't get my hopes up too much about Eternal Crusade, that game has been in development hell for too long, changed hands too much, changed direction too many times. It's pretty much doomed to be mediocre at best, and likely just straight up crap. It's a game that failed and now it's stillborn corpse is being reanimated into something resembling a game to recoup at least some of the money that went into it.AstaresPanda said:
As for DoW2, people hated it because they changed it too much. It was a good game, a very good game, but it should have been a spinoff or a new brand. It was more of an RPG than an RTS and was a major departure from the previous games, which a lot of people hoping for a modern rendition of the classic game just weren't interested in.
I'd play the game as-is if the prices came down on the minis. I'm an old, geritol-gobbling bastard and remember when a pack of 20 marines sold for $20. In proper corvus helmets, none of this Mark 7 malarky. What, didja run into a wall? YA LOOK LIKE A PUG, YA RIDICULOUS EXCUSE FOR THE EMP'RAZ FINEST.
Where was I? Oh right. 20 models for $20 dollars. A rules book which ran $50 and was considered exorbitant. An honest day's pay for an honest day's work. A chicken in every pot.
DAMMIT, YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN OR THERE'LL BE A HIDING! DON'T THINK I DON'T SEE YOU BACK THERE!
*grumble grumble*
All that being said, they really could do with revising their rules from scratch. Like tabula rasa that shit and start over beginning with a careful consideration of what scale of battle they want to be promoting. Necromunda and Mordheim hewed very tightly to the idea of small squad combat and the level of details in the rules reflected that. Those games never dragged, they were almost like a decent board game. Contrast that with umpty-thousand point battles in WH40k, when it takes how long for a single side to play? Surely we can agree that glacial pacing cannot have been part of the original intent of the game.
The only game I can think of that is more systematically broken was Car Wars. ( um, again, the old Steve Jackson version, not the newer revisions )
(because I'm old)
(*grumble*)
Where was I? Oh right. 20 models for $20 dollars. A rules book which ran $50 and was considered exorbitant. An honest day's pay for an honest day's work. A chicken in every pot.
DAMMIT, YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN OR THERE'LL BE A HIDING! DON'T THINK I DON'T SEE YOU BACK THERE!
*grumble grumble*
All that being said, they really could do with revising their rules from scratch. Like tabula rasa that shit and start over beginning with a careful consideration of what scale of battle they want to be promoting. Necromunda and Mordheim hewed very tightly to the idea of small squad combat and the level of details in the rules reflected that. Those games never dragged, they were almost like a decent board game. Contrast that with umpty-thousand point battles in WH40k, when it takes how long for a single side to play? Surely we can agree that glacial pacing cannot have been part of the original intent of the game.
The only game I can think of that is more systematically broken was Car Wars. ( um, again, the old Steve Jackson version, not the newer revisions )
(because I'm old)
(*grumble*)
Could I trouble you for sources? Because I know that Dark Millennium ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Dark_Millennium ) had been kicking around for quite some time and has been canceled, but I thought Eternal Crusade ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Eternal_Crusade ) was a new project. Are the two related?Jandau said:
Not challenging, just curious.
Eternal Crusade is a new game its not what the guys at VigilGames were working on before it went to shit along with THQ.Jandau said:
I remember GW was the best in high school and college but now it is just sad. I mean I am making much more than I was in high school and I am not even trying to buy more or get people into it. It sucks because I still love nerding over the lore because Orks iz best but I will not suggest it to even my more well to do friends.
Honestly the only thing will get me hyped for GW would be a Warhammer 40K game in the vein of Stars Wars BattleFront with all the factions available but that is not happening so it will be a dream.
Honestly the only thing will get me hyped for GW would be a Warhammer 40K game in the vein of Stars Wars BattleFront with all the factions available but that is not happening so it will be a dream.
I had considered buying Forge World stuff a short while back, but I couldn't really justify the purchases based on pricing, but then again, I couldn't do that for the Citadel models, either. I have to say, I really like the products Forge World puts out. Buying off Ebay is definitely the way to go. Any chance I get to screw GW out of some money and still get to play the game is a in my books.Silentpony said:
As for GW and their attitude towards 40k, you're hitting the nail on the head. To be honest, I'm not sure that GW really wants to have any of their IPs anymore. The way they basically ignore Fantasy and Lord of the Rings (or The Hobbit, whatever they're calling it these days), you'd think they were trying to move towards the business model of "We want people to just give us money so we don't have to maintain any IPs."
GW is in so much damage control mode that it's laughable.
They really need to invigorate the 40k IP because it being stuck in the 80's is showing a lot these days.
They really need to invigorate the 40k IP because it being stuck in the 80's is showing a lot these days.
I don't quite see how buying second hand models or rules off Ebay is in any way piracy. They are a physical product that can be sold on to anyone the owner wishes.Antigonius said:
1 guy mentioned 3d printers in a way that might be taken as "ha, ha, just print your own", but that's about it.
So was that more of a (very) subtle dig at people who think buying second hand videogames is piracy?Antigonius said:
Buying used products is not piracy in any way. It's your right as a consumer to buy legally produced second hand products legally.Antigonius said:
Now buying models from some shady guy in China that illegally recast models would be closer to piracy considering that they are actual bootleg productions.
By that logic, buying a used car is also piracy. Buying a house from someone other than the original contractor is piracy. How insane does that sound? To me, that's a "100% all systems critical" on the Crazy-o-Meter. So, my question is this: how is buying a second hand model, video game, or any other product comparable in the least to digital goods piracy (or any other form of piracy)? The company selling the product has already gotten the money they expected to make out of the product, they no longer own any part of it beyond the Intellectual Property. What good reason is there to bar me from doing as I please with the product that I legitimately purchased from an authorized distributor? If I choose to resell that product in an auction or to a friend, what right does the company who made the product have to stop me? Would it also be vandalism if I decided to take a sledgehammer to the product?Antigonius said:
Take heart young squire! This has been said about GW for at least 20 years. Yes it gets more expensive but money has decreased in value so its not as bad as people make out. Yes as a number it costs more now but your money has less spending power and you earn more of it with inflation so it is off set somewhat. As a business they raked it in when LOTRs was on the cinemas with their LOTR game, this will be hard to replicate, but theyre still profitable as a company.Alexei F. Karamazov said:
Im too old to find 4 hours to be in the same place with my whole army as someone else so have given up on WHFB and 40k. I do however still play bloodbowl, both on line via PC and have 2 teams of minatures for tournament play. Its as strategic as anything else you will play and team development has a lovely RPG feel. Although GW has stopped supporting Bloodbowl there are lots of 3rd parties making models and there is a rabid tournament scene around the US and Europe. Its far more accessable money wise as teams are never more than 16 players and many squads come in at 11.
The rule book (Known as LRB6) is free on line, you will get a pitch (the game board) for around £30 for a good one and your team for around £30 depending on how elabourate you would like. Then its just dice with the only non-vanilla dice being "block dice" of which you need 3 (its a d6 with symbols over numbers.
Many of the smaller specialist games done by GW were far superior to its main games. Bloodbowl, Necromunda, Space Hulk, Mordenheim, Advances Hero Quest. Its a shame they have let them go but it does seem to mean more of them are getting faithful PC releases (Space Hulk is out as a conversion of the board game, Bloodbowl is about to be released as BB2 and Mordenheim is in developement)
Well, Games Workshop at least attended Economics 101: "When shit goes south, those with the highest costs are the first to go."Gennadios said:
I suspect they will tread water at best going forward; the few left are a rabid fanbase, but actual growth isn't going to happen until they stop trying to gouge their customers so damn hard.
Why should it be any different?Antigonius said:
Oh, I dunno.
Maybe the fact that the models are Regular Goods and not Information Goods and thus cannot be "pirated" in the first place. (no matter how hard you try to stretch that term, it will never be true)
Maybe the fact that First Sale Doctrine exists (and for good reason) and fully applies here.
Now, you're free to think whatever you want.
But know that thinking tangible goods work exactly the same as information goods is 100% wrong.
Copyright is 10 kinds of fucked up in today's age so lets not drag all regular physical goods into that quagmire too, mkay?
In the eye of the law... yes.. yes it is different.Antigonius said:
One is data, a medium that can be copied infinitly by everyone and their grandma by simply marking it in your browser, rightclicking and choosing "copy".
The other is a physical good of wich there is a limited amount that is not easaly copied without special equipment that the usual person doesnt have access to.
Same reason you can sell your old car the the used car salesman... or anything else you possess like a house.
You do know that you have the RIGHT to actually sell your physical goods that you bought with your own money right?
Right?
"What has him smiling is that Games Workshop has streamlined distribution, implemented its one man store policy, and cut huge chunks out of its middle management structure. Cutting costs and reducing risks, says Kirby, is key to Games Workshop's long term survival."
Translation: We've put a lot of people out of work.
Translation: We've put a lot of people out of work.
Maybe if it didn't cost $500+ for a basic army. And then having to find someone else who spent $500+ on the game to play with...