GameStop CEO Says Next Xbox Won't Block Used Games

[Grunt_Man11]

Snip

As a PC gamer, it really doesn't bother me. I have a PS3, but I haven't really touched it since I built this beast.

And what about those it does bother? Are they just SoL? Do people who live on a budget deserve nothing? Do people who live in a rural area deserve nothing?

Also, has no-one learned from the whole PSN hacking and outage debacle? That event alone proved how bad digital distribution is. Think about it.

All it would take is one determined hacker to completely erase all of your games, saves, achievement, and so on. The worst part, you can't do a single thing to stop them. The safety of your game library is in the hands of a team of other people whom, as Sony has shown, might be completely incompetent.

Someone might say, "Well yeah, but your house could burn down a destroy all your physical game copies." True, but there is always a chance I will be home and are able to prevent the fire from getting anywhere. It might be a slim chance, but it's more than the 0% chance you have of stopping a hacker who decides it would be funny to wipe out a digital distributor's cloud server.

 

[Frostbite3789]

Snip

I think you're overreacting to a frankly, extreme level and trying to argue a point with someone who has no stake in the argument.

If consoles went to DD, great. I don't care. You didn't really need to quote me to tell me all that. I'll continue to use Steam for it's sales, and go pick up physical copies when I can/if I want to.

captcha: face the music.

 

[Treblaine]

Not everyone can afford to buy games new all the time.
Not everyone has high-speed internet.
Not everyone has their consoles connected to the internet.

Not. A. Problem.

-Steam doesn't allow resale of games but compensates with the wonderful deals on their service, with 50% off to 75% off to as much as 90% off on bundles. You can't say you can't afford to buy any games on this service, and this is much better as there are MORE copies out there and the developers actually see some money this way selling new discounted, rather than resused.

-High speed internet is not a requirement. Steam allows you to use ANY backup to build an install from. In my internet cafe people will often bring in an external hardrive to have large popular games be copied over. Or they could jsut use DVDs to distribute the raw game content, but you have to pay online for the unique key and updates in order to play online, etc

-If you are too lazy to connect your console to the internet even if you have internet then they are probably too lazy to even transition to the next generation. They won't buy and Xbox 720, hell they may still have just a Playstation 2

See, us PC gamers have solved these problems already. And we've been going great for almost the past DECADE on a Digital-Focused marketplace, if you'd ever care to check it out you see how well it's doing. How Valve is more profitable-per-employee than Apple.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

*Phew* Oh thank god. I clicked into this forum worried I wouldn't be able to play the games I own. Oh what's that? We'll be allowed to own hard copies of the games we pay for? Stop it, I'm getting a fucking chubby.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

Not everyone can afford to buy games new all the time.
Not everyone has high-speed internet.
Not everyone has their consoles connected to the internet.

Not. A. Problem.

-Steam doesn't allow resale of games but compensates with the wonderful deals on their service, with 50% off to 75% off to as much as 90% off on bundles. You can't say you can't afford to buy any games on this service, and this is much better as there are MORE copies out there and the developers actually see some money this way selling new discounted, rather than resused.

-High speed internet is not a requirement. Steam allows you to use ANY backup to build an install from. In my internet cafe people will often bring in an external hardrive to have large popular games be copied over. Or they could jsut use DVDs to distribute the raw game content, but you have to pay online for the unique key and updates in order to play online, etc

-If you are too lazy to connect your console to the internet even if you have internet then they are probably too lazy to even transition to the next generation. They won't buy and Xbox 720, hell they may still have just a Playstation 2

See, us PC gamers have solved these problems already. And we've been going great for almost the past DECADE on a Digital-Focused marketplace, if you'd ever care to check it out you see how well it's doing. How Valve is more profitable-per-employee than Apple.

And a number of those games require you to log on to Steam in order to play... at all.

Trust me the day some hacker decides to give Valve the PSN treatment is the day you'll start singing a different, tear fueled, tune.

 

[Treblaine]

Snip

As a PC gamer, it really doesn't bother me. I have a PS3, but I haven't really touched it since I built this beast.

And what about those it does bother? Are they just SoL? Do people who live on a budget deserve nothing? Do people who live in a rural area deserve nothing?

Also, has no-one learned from the whole PSN hacking and outage debacle? That event alone proved how bad digital distribution is. Think about it.

All it would take is one determined hacker to completely erase all of your games, saves, achievement, and so on. The worst part, you can't do a single thing to stop them. The safety of your game library is in the hands of a team of other people whom, as Sony has shown, might be completely incompetent.

Someone might say, "Well yeah, but your house could burn down a destroy all your physical game copies." True, but there is always a chance I will be home and are able to prevent the fire from getting anywhere. It might be a slim chance, but it's more than the 0% chance you have of stopping a hacker who decides it would be funny to wipe out a digital distributor's cloud server.

Valve have contingency plans for this that others can follow. If they ever get hacked or somehow shut down like by a meteorite hitting their main headquarters then all the games you downloaded will have a secret patch that unlocks them to be stand-alone. You can never lose purchases as your purchases can be verified by each individuals bank so licence keys can be recovered. No way they can hack a network and EVERY BANKING NETWORK RELATED TO IT!

This worry is like saying "What happens to all the song on my iPod if someone hacks Apple". Nothing, They are on your hard drive, they are safe there.

As to achievements, well that can ALREADY be hacked yet in the past almost 7 years there hasn't been even a small-scale attack on achievements records, only reversible personal hacks. And if they did, so what? You need a computer to confirm what you know you did? If that Achievement icon doesn't show that you nailed that particularly skilful move... then it never happened. Achievements don't unlock any new aspect of gameplay, it's just an icon in a menu. It's like losing your High School Diploma in a fire, it doesn't mean you never graduated from High School.

One thing I think the PSN hack demonstrates is complacency. PSN was hacked largely by Sony's negligence and irresponsibility. Valve have come under similar attacks but handled it properly. Sony just don't know enough about networking, it's not in their DNA as a hardware company, they had a disc and retail vision which honestly is more at home in the 1990's than the 2010's.

Captcha: Easy as cake (they really are prophetic these things)

 

[Treblaine]

Not everyone can afford to buy games new all the time.
Not everyone has high-speed internet.
Not everyone has their consoles connected to the internet.

Not. A. Problem.

-Steam doesn't allow resale of games but compensates with the wonderful deals on their service, with 50% off to 75% off to as much as 90% off on bundles. You can't say you can't afford to buy any games on this service, and this is much better as there are MORE copies out there and the developers actually see some money this way selling new discounted, rather than resused.

-High speed internet is not a requirement. Steam allows you to use ANY backup to build an install from. In my internet cafe people will often bring in an external hardrive to have large popular games be copied over. Or they could jsut use DVDs to distribute the raw game content, but you have to pay online for the unique key and updates in order to play online, etc

-If you are too lazy to connect your console to the internet even if you have internet then they are probably too lazy to even transition to the next generation. They won't buy and Xbox 720, hell they may still have just a Playstation 2

See, us PC gamers have solved these problems already. And we've been going great for almost the past DECADE on a Digital-Focused marketplace, if you'd ever care to check it out you see how well it's doing. How Valve is more profitable-per-employee than Apple.

And a number of those games require you to log on to Steam in order to play... at all.

Trust me the day some hacker decides to give Valve the PSN treatment is the day you'll start singing a different, tear fueled, tune.

Yeah, but you don't have to be online to play, just log into your account on Stream. You ALREADY have to do that today, on my Xbox 360 I can't access my saves or makes saves without login to my profile on Xbox Live. Play without saves? Impractical. I'm sorry that things can't go back to the N64 days of just plug and play but those days are OVER!

"Trust me"

After the ignorance you have demonstrated?

Hey, it has ALREADY happened to Valve and they handled it fine isolating the intrusion and detailing their limited access and subsequently changing sensitive info. The personal data was locked down and encrypted, we had our "PSN moment" and Valve totally nailed it. No tears. No change of tune. So nice blind assertions there, buddy.

You have demonstrated nothing but your prejudice and ignorance of this matter.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

That would be ridiculous. Duh. What happens when someone buys a new game, plays it, uninstalls it, then plays it again later? Would they have to buy it again? Don't be ridiculous, you silly fool.

Though, wasn't there just an article, on this very site, complaining that Gamestop and places like it are hurting the AAA gaming industry by keeping the price of games as high as they are because the guys making the game get only a small share of the profits, so they have to maximize price in order to get a reasonable return?

Pretty sure there was. Can't find it at the moment.

 

[ablac]

Duh. I will eat my own face if they actually (completely) block used games being playable. And then you'll have seen everything.

You're the CEO of GameStop.

You're not the one actually MAKING it!

Why the fuck should we care what you have to say about it?

Cause Gamestop can refuse to stock it and the games for it. That'd put a huge dent in Microsofts sales.

So of course, IF the new X-box actually DID include "anti-used game" tech, they'd be SURE to tell GameStop wouldn't they?

You're absolutely right: GameStop would sell the consoles for years, completely oblivious to it's limiting functionality. There is absolutely no way they'd be able to find out about it blocking used games from being played unless MS told them.

They'll keep selling the consoles for years because people will still be BUYING them for years, weather they play used games or not.
Never underestimate the power of commercialism:

You're not listening. If Gamestop can't sell used games for this thing, they won't make enough of a profit to be worth carrying it. So why would they keep selling it if they don't make any money on it?

Because then they have nothing to sell and stand to go out of business while the console is bought and sold at other retailers. It would be more harmful to gamestop but they do have power and I doubt microsoft want to see them go.

Because as we all know, Sony and Nintendo don't exist.

Hmm maybe go out of business was a dum thing to say and i take that back i wasnt thinking though i thought this was Sony as well. However the point still stands that Gamestop wont simply stop stocking all microsoft stuff because they stand to lose more giving up the new console rather than simply taking a hit to used sales.

Not by much. Plus, you have to realise that shelf space is itself a commodty. If they could fill the same shelf space that they would devote to new copies of Microsofts games, and new Microsoft consoles, with new and used Ps4 and WiiU games, they would easily make more money back.

They would make a huge loss of sales. If they stood to gain from abandoning the xbox then they would have already. At present it seems to be the most popular of the two (nintendo is playing its own game to a very different market).

Right. They're sticking with it. Because they can still sell used 360 games.

You keep missing the point. In order to make up the money that they got from a pre-owned game, Gamestop would need to sell approximately 30 new copies of that same game instead of one used copy. That means that in order to justify keeping the next Xbox around in their stores, that console would need to be 30 times more popular than the 360 - in other words, it would need to be bought by 1.5 billion people.

Normally I dont care whether you have evidence or not because sound logic usually makes sense. Here however with figures evidence is required. 30 new=1 used? I dont believe that. And I wasnt talking about the 360 I was saying if they either dont sell any used copies but still sell the new stuff or dont sell any of the new stuff they will go for the former option because they are at least making money from those sales. You drew the conclusion out of nowhere that I was talking about 360 sales.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

Snip

Your games won't be on your hard drive, they will be on a cloud server somewhere. Unless you think you can fit all those games onto your hard drive and DVDs. I seriously doubt it. You may think you have enough space but between downloading games, downloading patches for those games, downloading DLC for those games, data from just browsing the internet, and OS updates your hard drive(s) will fill up faster than you think.
That's what they're trying to push for anyway. The "Almighty Cloud!" Right... I'd rather be responsible for my files instead of some other person I don't know. Thank you very much.

"Oh Valve had their PSN moment blah blah blah," whatever. They got lucky. No system is flawless. They'll push for people to use their cloud servers and that's when they'll get hit. The most venerable are the one's who feel the most secure.

Let's address the issue that not having a high speed internet causes. Keep in mind that in addition to people who can't afford it, there is a large number of people who just can't get it due to lack of availability. They can afford it, but no one is selling it.
(Side-note: Satellite internet sucks worse than dial-up. I speak from experience.)

I told this little story on the comments to Jim Sterlin's video where he completely gushed over digital distribution and overlooked it's shortcomings.
The 4.0 patch to World of Warcraft was a little over 1 gig in size. It took me two days to download! Here's the scary part, that was before I had to downgrade to 1.5 DSL because I moved.

Now imagine trying to download a full game like Skyrim, Assassin's Creed, or Shogun: Total War 2. These games range from around 6 gigs in size to around 32 gigs in size.

Streaming isn't the answer either. It's been 10 years and it hasn't shown any improvement that I can see. Just look at YouTube. They have a lot of users, but so does Steam. I don't relish the idea of my game being constantly interrupted by a dotted circle.

I'm not saying that digital distribution should be abolished. Not at all, I won't deny the good it's done when it comes to indie developers. I'm saying that it shouldn't be the only option.

There is nothing wrong with used games. Game publishers just want to gouge us with game prices. The reason used sales are up is because new is too expensive for a significant number of people. If they're that worried over it, then try to push a bit of regulation that states that a game store must share the profits from used sales with the publisher.
Better yet, open up their own stores and sell used games themselves, or *gasp* create an Amazon-ish service and sell used games themselves. Fighting fire with fire, what a novel concept!
Don't need high speed internet to put in mailing information.

Also, what the hell is wrong with wanting things to be like "pick up and play like the N64 days"? Seriously, what's so great about putting in a password just to play a game? It's understandable for a online-centric game like an MMO, but not for an offline single-player game. Don't give me that "your Xbox requires you to log on" nonsense because you're wrong... kind of. My Xbox logs on to my profile automatically, no password input required at all. (It's even instant due to being offline.)

This might be a petty complain, but having to constantly write down and remember password after password is annoying.

"Hey let's shoot some hoops?" ENTER PASSWORD
"I'll grab a beer out of the fridge?" ENTER PASSWORD
"Walking the dog." ENTER PASSWORD
"I'm going to take a shower." ENTER PASSWORD
"Hitting the sack." ENTER PASSWORD
"Slitting my wrists in frustration!" ENTER PASSWORD
"F***!!!!!!" ENTER PASSWORD
*facedesk*...... ENTER PASSWORD

Finally, shut up Yoda! You failed to see the Sith right under your nose before it was too late. He even kicked your butt. Talk about failing you little green turd. Jedi Master, my ass.

 

[ablac]

Duh. I will eat my own face if they actually (completely) block used games being playable. And then you'll have seen everything.

You're the CEO of GameStop.

You're not the one actually MAKING it!

Why the fuck should we care what you have to say about it?

Cause Gamestop can refuse to stock it and the games for it. That'd put a huge dent in Microsofts sales.

So of course, IF the new X-box actually DID include "anti-used game" tech, they'd be SURE to tell GameStop wouldn't they?

You're absolutely right: GameStop would sell the consoles for years, completely oblivious to it's limiting functionality. There is absolutely no way they'd be able to find out about it blocking used games from being played unless MS told them.

They'll keep selling the consoles for years because people will still be BUYING them for years, weather they play used games or not.
Never underestimate the power of commercialism:

You're not listening. If Gamestop can't sell used games for this thing, they won't make enough of a profit to be worth carrying it. So why would they keep selling it if they don't make any money on it?

Because then they have nothing to sell and stand to go out of business while the console is bought and sold at other retailers. It would be more harmful to gamestop but they do have power and I doubt microsoft want to see them go.

Because as we all know, Sony and Nintendo don't exist.

Hmm maybe go out of business was a dum thing to say and i take that back i wasnt thinking though i thought this was Sony as well. However the point still stands that Gamestop wont simply stop stocking all microsoft stuff because they stand to lose more giving up the new console rather than simply taking a hit to used sales.

Not by much. Plus, you have to realise that shelf space is itself a commodty. If they could fill the same shelf space that they would devote to new copies of Microsofts games, and new Microsoft consoles, with new and used Ps4 and WiiU games, they would easily make more money back.

They would make a huge loss of sales. If they stood to gain from abandoning the xbox then they would have already. At present it seems to be the most popular of the two (nintendo is playing its own game to a very different market).

Right. They're sticking with it. Because they can still sell used 360 games.

You keep missing the point. In order to make up the money that they got from a pre-owned game, Gamestop would need to sell approximately 30 new copies of that same game instead of one used copy. That means that in order to justify keeping the next Xbox around in their stores, that console would need to be 30 times more popular than the 360 - in other words, it would need to be bought by 1.5 billion people.

Normally I dont care whether you have evidence or not because sound logic usually makes sense. Here however with figures evidence is required. 30 new=1 used? I dont believe that. And I wasnt talking about the 360 I was saying if they either dont sell any used copies but still sell the new stuff or dont sell any of the new stuff they will go for the former option because they are at least making money from those sales. You drew the conclusion out of nowhere that I was talking about 360 sales.

Profit margin on a new game - approximately $1.50. Profit on a used game - $45 (buying it at $10, selling it for $55).

And once again, you're missing the fact that there are things they could sell instead with a better profit margin than all new games.

For the love of god. What part of the word evidence do you not understand. You could have pulled those numbers out of your arse. Without evidence thats the conclusion im coming to. They dont sell used at nearly the same price as new because its used and if they get it back that early then they do not buy it for $10. Your argument hinges on the idea that used sales are worth an absolute absurd amount more than new. To claim that without evidence is just ridiculous.when yo claim facts and figures and to such a dramtic degree, that is when evidence is required. Also do you really think it would be better for them? If it was they would have already done so this generation or earlier. They need to sell new games because thats how they make their freaking money.

 

[Keava]

Profit margin on a new game - approximately $1.50. Profit on a used game - $45 (buying it at $10, selling it for $55).

And once again, you're missing the fact that there are things they could sell instead with a better profit margin than all new games.

Actually wholesale price of a game is ~60-65% of end price. After distributor fees the shop is getting ~15$ per box of markup so You missed the estimate by quite a bit. It's more along the lines of 3:1 in favour of used copies rather than 30:1.

 

[ablac]

Pretty much all people who buy used games made within the last, say, year are the same as pirates anyway.

So I say bravo new Xbox, get rid of used games, good riddance, especially if it helps to kill gamestop.

Sarcastic applause for this most ignorant statement.

When you buy a used car that was built within the last year, is this the same as someone who just commited grand theft auto? Of course not, and buying used games =/= pirating.

Hope you didn't like renting and borrowing a friend's game either.

I dont rent or borrow games, I am not a cheapskate, I can buy a game that interests me.

And yes, a used game buyer is exactly the same as a pirate.

Used game buyer pays gamestop for their game

Pirate pays their ISP for the bandwidth to download their game.

In both cases the people who made the game dont see a penny for their work, the used game buyer just happens to get to be a little more smug while trying to defend being cheap.

Piracy is illegal for one thing. Generally worth obeying the law considering the laws on piracy (not to stop it like SOPA but against copyright infringement) are pretty legit. Also a used sale represents a game already bought once new whilst a pirated game represents one copy being bought then being copied an infinite number of times. When someone buys something physical they have a right to what happens next. If they choose to sell it further down the road then that is their right. Whther it is harmful to the industry or not it is not aquaitable to piracy and to do so is absurd. Pirates dont pay for jack. They are scum. Parasites. You attack used gamers, who are legit consumers engaging in legal and rightful trade, yet defend pirates. Pirates are entitled, whiny douchebags who have no right to anything in gaming. To defend them is moronic. If I buy a car and then choose to sell it later then that money does not go to the person who made the car. However they have no right to that money because they sold the car. It is now mine and they have no right to it or any money made form it. The same is with games.

 

[harvz]

I would love it if all the new consoles have an anti-used system in them. you would hear gamestop saying "Well, we're not going to stock the xbox 3 (god, please dont let it be called the 720 just because idiots keep calling it that) or the ps4 because we dont like that the system, also, can i have a dollar? I havent eaten in a week".

I think the best possible outcome for a system like this would be some sort of bar code reader (which is a very new and scary technology) which inputs an extremely long key that associates to your account so that you can play the game on any console and maybe some kind of guest system to let your friends play on the console that your account is currently on.

you know what, that would be brilliant, particularly if your disc (provided its still a disc) is damaged, you could potentially download it because its associated to your account. The loss of being able to lend games to your friends would be a small sacrifice to kill gamestop/eb games, particularly when the last game i bought off them was >$100USD and was a bloody standard edition.