GameStop Warns Against Anti-Used Game Technology

[MagunBFP]

The point, which you missed, is that he knows how to shift the economy and make a statement. You lead by example so that others might learn to follow. You don't throw good money after bad. You influence the market towards good. What, do you think companies have really taken a loss because 'the market isn't strong'? Hah. Please, don't talk to us of tantrums. That was rude and the comment attached aggressively-stanced supposition. Please do not do that again.

Indeed, the points you make are definitely valid, but you're inferring that they are the points he was making. Going with the competitor because of issues that are of no relevance to you, he said he doesn't buy used games and his internet connection is stable, doesn't actually fall under throwing good money after bad or influencing the market towards "good". If these new features don't impact you, then how exactly are they bad?

I can't comment as to profits/losses of companies because I don't know, I just like good games and it doesn't matter much to me who makes then. What I do know is that when I used to go into stores and buy a new game the sales person would, most of the time, try to sell me a second-hand version instead. Which is just about the retailer getting all the money for the used game instead of anyone else, so by logical extension of this if people are convinced to save $5-$10 dollars then the publisher has lost any profit from the sale.

As for my comment about tantrums, yes it was condescending but gettng worked up about something that, by his own admission, isn't going to affect him is pretty much a tantrum.

 

[Jamash]

I read some comments above about people like me being in the "dark ages", and say what you will, but I really don't have use for an internet-connected console. I've had an Xbox since 2006, and only connected it via Xbox Live, a couple weeks ago. I don't like to play multiplayer games, and the only reason I hooked it up at all was because I used to play co-op games with my daughter before she moved across the country. I missed playing with her, so I bought a subscription for Xbox Live. I don't know if I'll renew the subscription in a year though, because although I enjoy playing with her, I don't do it often enough to warrant the subscription. So I'm not sure why that puts me in the dark ages...it's just a preference. I like to play single-player games, period. To have my console hooked up to the internet, puts another financial burden on my already financially-strapped family as well. I did it at the time, because we had the funds, but my husband's income fluctuates, and it's not something I'd even be ABLE to do if I wanted to subscribe right now. So Xbox would be cutting so many customers off, just by making the always on-line internet connectivity issue a reality, alone. Some people just can't afford it. These people will then go to Sony. Or, they'll just go to computer-gaming. I HAVE internet, and am on the internet most of the day (on my computer)...I just don't want to HAVE to pay for another device to be hooked to it, especially since I won't use it much.

You don't have to pay to connect your Xbox to the Internet, they don't charge you anything for the free Silver account and they even provide the ethernet cable for free.

All you have to do is connect the supplied ethernet cable to your modem/router and your Xbox is connect to the Internet, always online and without costing you a penny (other than what you already pay for your Internet access).

You may have to pay to maintain a Gold subscription which mainly grants you access to multiplayer, but to just be connected to Xbox Live, to download patches and updates for your games and download DLC, demos and other Marketplace content, and more importantly, to fulfil the rumoured "always online" condition of the Nextbox, all you have to do is connect the supplied cable to your Internet source.

 

[Nazulu]

Why does everyone latch onto the "Used Games" part of these stories while ignoring the absolutely atrocious part. You must always be online to use the console.

Maybe I'm the only one that lives in the dark ages, but the internet is a very expensive thing (especially at the speeds they'll require)and until recently I didn't even have access to high-speed at all. If any console requires that I be online to play my games - whether or not they allow used game sales - I simply won't be able to justify purchasing the console nor the games. I don't know when I'll be forced to cancel my internet subscription and I don't know when I'll have to move down the street where there isn't cable access...

Holy Fucking Shit!!! I hope you're wrong. There would be no words to describe my disgust.

OT: And as for this, I doubt it will work. Call me crazy, but every one has limit and I know some Xbox fans this will instantly turn off. I use rentals for demo's, and I know many other people that do the same.

 

[JEBWrench]

We should all be on the same side on this issue, I think. We should not be okay with companies like Xbox telling us how we have to game. They WILL listen to us if we speak with our wallets. These possible changes to their consoles may be okay with YOU, but you HAVE to recognize that we all don't have the same financial capabilities, or want to play our games the same way you want to play. Why would you want to push other gamers out of our community, or be OKAY with the idea that they will be pushed out? The idea that a gaming company feels ripped-off because of the sale of used games is preposterous to me. If they're used, that means they were paid for once already. Why do they feel entitled to be paid for the same item over and over again? If they want, there's nothing to stop them from renting games. I want to reiterate here that they're NOT losing out on sales to people who just can't afford the price of a new game. If only new games are sold, some people will just have to do without gaming.

Why should we all be on the same side on this issue? I personally think if you can't afford to play game X, don't play game X. Play something else. There's plenty of excellent free stuff out there. Most of my gaming collection has always consisted of freeware, a discount title now and again, and the occasional new purchase.

As for not losing out on sales to people who can't afford, that's not the issue. It's the issue of people who can afford the price of a new game, who instead take the used copy at Gamestop on the cheap, after actually wanting a new copy of the game in the first place.

 

[medv4380]

Well then we're going to hit a Video Game Crash. It's an inevitable consequence of unmetered greed, I guess.

If they go through with this then they will see a 25% MINIMUM contraction on the gaming market. I know what they're thinking. "It's just the Used game market it won't affect the industry." But they're wrong. Any economist would tell you that this is a horrible idea. Explaining the finer points of something like Used Car Sales seems to be above the heads of the Greedy.

Embrace the crash.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

Well they're not wrong, are they?

Well no, they're not wrong.

However, this is Gamestop and we're not suppose to agree with Gamestop... even if they are right.

 

[00slash00]

oh gamestop you goofy transparent bastards. im in favor of only being able to play new games. i do most of my gaming through steam and i obviously cant buy used games through there. buying used games wasnt even an option when i had nes, genesis, snes, n64, and gamecube (not in my area anyway) and that didnt stop me from gaming. i dont need to own every single game i have the slightest interest in, im fine with saving my money for the games i really want. call developers greedy if you want, for wanting to get a profit from every person who plays their game, but i like supporting developers. even if this bad publicity stops sony and microsoft from implementing this, gamestop needs to prepare for the fact that gaming is eventually going to be digital. it probably wont be for quite a while but its going to happen and if they want to stay afloat, they are going to need to find a way to become less dependent on used games

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

Wouldn't it be great if all next-gen consoles sucked?

I would love it. It would push a hell of a lot of gamers back to PC and we might get a nice boost to the PC games industry.

There's quite a few problems with that though with a few being:

People who already have consoles and are happy still using them.

People who don't know how to build a PC let alone know how to fix certain games (I wouldn't pull the whole "look up forums excuse).

People who don't want to keep shelling out money for new parts time and time again (especially if one part were to fuck up or break down).

People who loved the exclusives that aren't on PC.

People who can't play PC games with a gamepad and aren't great at using K+M (Yes there are still games out there than can be K+M only).

People that can't afford say a new GPU to keep up with the latest in gaming because of irl situations such as bills and the like.

People with really shitty internet connections and other people who don't like digitally downloading their games (I for one don't like waiting half a day if not more for my digital game downloads and my connection is the highest there is on the Isle of Man).

And finally people who just flat out don't like PC gaming.

That and I know most of the time people want others to ditch consoles and join the "master race" for that nice ego stroke otherwise they'd leave others to their own complete choice of platform without telling them their's is shit to prove a point.

As for myself I'm most likely going to stick with the 360,Wii U and a little of the PC seeing as how I can't afford new parts as much as I am not equipped with the greatest of common knowledge of building a godlike one either and dislike mostly using K+M for my games unless it's Sim or RTS.

Captcha; Wild West, it sure feels like it when I'm here.

As a last note with all those points up there I know will get the usual excuses, but that does not mean they aren't any less real of a situation for many already.

 

[PsychoChick966]

I read some comments above about people like me being in the "dark ages", and say what you will, but I really don't have use for an internet-connected console. I've had an Xbox since 2006, and only connected it via Xbox Live, a couple weeks ago. I don't like to play multiplayer games, and the only reason I hooked it up at all was because I used to play co-op games with my daughter before she moved across the country. I missed playing with her, so I bought a subscription for Xbox Live. I don't know if I'll renew the subscription in a year though, because although I enjoy playing with her, I don't do it often enough to warrant the subscription. So I'm not sure why that puts me in the dark ages...it's just a preference. I like to play single-player games, period. To have my console hooked up to the internet, puts another financial burden on my already financially-strapped family as well. I did it at the time, because we had the funds, but my husband's income fluctuates, and it's not something I'd even be ABLE to do if I wanted to subscribe right now. So Xbox would be cutting so many customers off, just by making the always on-line internet connectivity issue a reality, alone. Some people just can't afford it. These people will then go to Sony. Or, they'll just go to computer-gaming. I HAVE internet, and am on the internet most of the day (on my computer)...I just don't want to HAVE to pay for another device to be hooked to it, especially since I won't use it much.

You don't have to pay to connect your Xbox to the Internet, they don't charge you anything for the free Silver account and they even provide the ethernet cable for free.

All you have to do is connect the supplied ethernet cable to your modem/router and your Xbox is connect to the Internet, always online and without costing you a penny (other than what you already pay for your Internet access).

You may have to pay to maintain a Gold subscription which mainly grants you access to multiplayer, but to just be connected to Xbox Live, to download patches and updates for your games and download DLC, demos and other Marketplace content, and more importantly, to fulfil the rumoured "always online" condition of the Nextbox, all you have to do is connect the supplied cable to your Internet source.

Thanks. I obviously wasn't aware of that. I appreciate the info.

 

[uchytjes]

And there is still the fact that the terms of service we agree to allows them to change functionality after the fact. One day they could just go *click* and turn off used game playability. Sony already pulled this bullshit with PS2 games, and for what, to be able to sell them online.

What are you talking about? There are still PS3s out there that can play PS2 games, its just the new ones that can't do it anymore since they took out that functionality to make them cheaper. The only reason the PS3 could play them in the first place was because they pretty much had another additional PS2 chip in them.

What was REAL bullshit was that XBOX 360s were compatible with only a select few XBOX games.

 

[The Lugz]

huuuuum, used games seller advocates used games as system sellers..

do they not realize Microsoft looses money on systems? this isn't exactly a good deal for them lol
ah, gamestop. how do you still exist

 

[MrBenSampson]

Once games go out of print, factory sealed copies can become rare, so used games become the only available option. If used games do not work, then paying a fortune for a sealed copy on Ebay will be the only option, and the prices are steep enough already. Factory sealed games from previous console generations sell for hundreds of dollars(Final Fantasy on the NES sells for thousands). Imagine how expensive they would be if used copies didn't work.

The anti used games policy is enough for me to not join the next generation, but the always-online requirement sounds outrageous. I've already mentioned this on an earlier forum, but Microsoft won't support this console forever, so what will happen when that day comes? Xbox Live will be shut down, and an entire generation of consoles will be bricked. After people have possibly invested thousands of dollars into the hardware and software, Microsoft pulling the plug will be a disaster. If previous generations were like this, then I would have hundreds of games in my collection that I would no longer be able to play, just because the servers would be gone by now.

If either of these features are in the PS4 and Xbox, I'll just stick with the consoles I currently own. My PS2 has been getting the most use, anyway.

 

[Magicman10893]

As biased as Gamestop can be in this situation, they are absolutely right. If the next Xbox has this always on DRM I will not buy it. Ever. If the next Xbox has this DRM and the next Playstation doesn't, you can bet your ass that I'll be ditching Xbox for Playstation (and vice-versa). Hell, I might buy the console that doesn't have DRM on release night just to prove a point (and yes, I know one random guy on the internet isn't going to show Microsoft/Sony anything).

If they both have this stupid DRM set up, I'm just going to save up for a good PC. Sure, the lack of reselling games and the DRM is pretty rampant, but at least Steam sales means I won't get (as) fucked over.

 

[MagunBFP]

My point is, a console manufacturer does something stupid in order to fix a problem with other, very real solutions, I'm not going to support it with my business. It's not a tantrum, Its called voting with your wallet.
"If these new features don't impact you, then how exactly are they bad?"
I find that statement utterly ridicules! (and slightly hilarious) I care about video games, and I care about others being able to play and enjoy theme. And there are many people who can only afford to game through the used game market, and there are many people who don't have a stable internet connection!
It's not a tantrum, it's merely a statement as an example that I will not support bad business decision that I believe will ultimately hurt the game industry and will certainly hurt the consumer base.
And I can't be outraged about something because it doesn't effect me? Well I care about things and people other than my own convenience. I'm sorry if that's an odd concept to you.

I'm glad you were amused by my comment... I just wasn't able to actually get any of your reasoning from your original post which was basically "if a manufacturer makes these changes I'll go to their competitor, I won't notice the changes but thats not the point" and then you failed to make any point.

Here though you make a point. I actually agree with you on the DRM part, until the console manufacturer can promise 100% up time, and everyone has a stable connection its stupid to even discuss making it a part of the next-gen release. Used games though, it might just be my exposure but there's no giant difference in price, and to me it seems that alot of the disagreement is I could get games cheaper and now I have to pay abit more. Gamestop being upset is exactly the same issue, they're not championing the right of gamers to get second hand games, they just don't want to lose more then half of their profits.

You may at this point say you didn't need to explicitly make your point because "anyone" would just know what you meant. I personnally believe though that allowing Gamestop and EB and other retailers to make such a massive profit on second hand games (in Australia its something like re-buy at $10-$15 and sell at $70-$75, so upto $55 approximately). That being said the finances of the used game market is a problem for the developers/publishers and if a console manufacturer wants to do something about it then thats their choice. If the publishers aren't getting their ROI becuase people are buying their game but they're not getting their cut, then they will stop making them, or they'll fail. This will ultimately hurt the game industry and will certainly hurt the consumer base.

 

[Dogstile]

Why does everyone latch onto the "Used Games" part of these stories while ignoring the absolutely atrocious part. You must always be online to use the console.

Maybe I'm the only one that lives in the dark ages, but the internet is a very expensive thing (especially at the speeds they'll require)and until recently I didn't even have access to high-speed at all. If any console requires that I be online to play my games - whether or not they allow used game sales - I simply won't be able to justify purchasing the console nor the games. I don't know when I'll be forced to cancel my internet subscription and I don't know when I'll have to move down the street where there isn't cable access...

Contrary to popular belief, gaming doesn't need really high speed internet, nor does it take up all that much. First googled search, I couldn't be arsed to search further, you can if you like.

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100605013720AAkDE0A

I actually agree on the always online thing though, that's bullshit, my internet fails quite often and I live in a rather dense urban area.

 

[FoolKiller]

And there is still the fact that the terms of service we agree to allows them to change functionality after the fact. One day they could just go *click* and turn off used game playability. Sony already pulled this bullshit with PS2 games, and for what, to be able to sell them online.

What are you talking about? There are still PS3s out there that can play PS2 games, its just the new ones that can't do it anymore since they took out that functionality to make them cheaper. The only reason the PS3 could play them in the first place was because they pretty much had another additional PS2 chip in them.

What was REAL bullshit was that XBOX 360s were compatible with only a select few XBOX games.

Actually some of them have had it nerfed with firmware updates. I don't know why or how but I've had friends who lost that ability. It could just be a flaw with the update but I've actually seen the PS2 ability stop working after updates.

The truth is that all three companies were liars when they were yammering about backwards compatibility. Xbox stopped supporting it as of Nov 2007, Sony stopped making consoles with the ability in it and conveniently created a downloadable game store which means even the new consoles are capable of both running the game and reading the disc, and Nintendo just removed the ability to read the game and plug in the GC controllers.

 

[CrystalShadow]

They are biased, but they are also correct. People will simply wait for price drops or switch to PC. Less hassle, and Steam deals are awesome. No one wants to buy a game for $60 and not be able to sell it later when they get bored with it. Not to mention that Microsoft also charges people for online play. Video game market is largely unregulated. This kind of business practice should be illegal.

And in every other industry it is illegal.

The laws relating to it are called 'first sale doctrine'.

But, somehow copyright has become such a mess of a set of laws that they defy all common sense, basically declaring something a product one moment, and a service the next, based solely on the whims of the people selling it.

 

[MagunBFP]

Agreed, but I think there are much better ways to beat Gamestop/EB at their own game. We all remember the ridiculous EA Origin flame out. A business should always try to retake the consumer by offering a better service rather than by cornering them and holding them down until they comply. And I see better options than anti used game tech.

Totally right, the heavy handed tactic is never a popular one, and rarely the right one.

However, as long as you can physically trade and play used games Gamestop/EB and anyone else is going to keep raking in the profits. There are games out there where you can play them second hand offline but you need to purchase an online pass to go online and you get this pass with the original purchase, people hate that as much as the idea of not being able to play second hand games. Given that the product is literally unchanged between the original and second hand game (the only actual difference is where the money goes) so providing a better service to try and get people to actually pay the publishers/developers for their work (and not the retailer for... storing it for a bit longer?) is impossible. If a game comes out cheaper then the trade-in value is reduced and the used price is reduced in line with that, but if all games were available digitally from release day and everyone was online and able to take advantage of this (which an Always on Console DRM would ensure) then game costs could come down, which you could say would be a better service... I still think Always On DRM is a bad idea, but it would have its uses.

 

[MagunBFP]

To me, whether not DRM requirement would achieve its desired goal is irrelevant, because there are people who will just plain be unable to play their games anymore.

True, it'd be better if they just implemented the digital availabitily and factored out the middle man price increase... but then the physical retailers might just stop stocking anything for/by "insert console here" because the online market place is cheaper and they can't compete. Which would come back to hurting those who can't afford/get a stable internet connection/download limit.

 

[zidine100]

oh look a load of fuss over a rumor.

Microsoft arent idiots, they wouldn't do this until someone else does it first, and no one wants to be the first one to do this, it would cripple any consoles chance for success.