Gaming dying etc etc

[thejackyl]

...no one tried to turn existing sidescrolling platformers into FPSes....

Duke Nukem 3D would like to have a word with you. Although, since it was a sidescrolling platformer about blowing shit up so you can watch Oprah (Duke does indeed state he will kick Dr. Proton's ass in time to watch Oprah), it worked, since the basic premise didn't change, just the level design.

As for gaming dying, perhaps you're just growing out of it. I know I haven't played a game in like the last month apart from Rocksmith (which isn't really a game) and maybe a match or two of LoL.

Gaming is still fun to me, but nothing that has come out since early-mid 2012 has piqued my interest.

 

[Vault101]

Misconstrued on my part perhaps, though just listing games themselves and not such memorable instances designed within would better serve to illustrate my point.

An answer yes, but lacking anything substantial.

I still don;t get what your trying to say....you can;t tell somone their personal experiences are wrong

 

[Rachmaninov]

I play for a certain kind of experience...

Is that experience called "playing the same game over and over again?"

I jest. Mostly.

...(also having got my new PC) and "retro throwback indie artsy wankfest" just doesnt do anything for me, this isnt going to help my argument but I can't get into games liek that, no matter how good or inovative they may be

But this suggests you've got your mind-made up about what Indie games are. They're not all "retro throwback artsy wankfests" I mean, I gave the example of Amnesia in the post you're responding to, and that's not retro, it's not a throwback, and I really don't think I'd call it artsy.

It just does horror better than any modern AAA game.

The creators of Amnesia (Frictional Games) also made two other games that I've played and enjoyed, which weren't "retro throwback artsy wankfests" and those were Penumbra: Overture and Penumbra: Black Plague. Both horror games, and the second one had a really good story.

Horror, in fact, pretty much belongs to Indie, right now.

Torchlight is another example of a big, non-retro-throwback-artsy-wankfest indie game, which also wasn't really a throwback. That was popular enough for its sequel, Torchlight 2, to be considered competition for Diablo 3. No small feat.

And Euro Truck Simulator 2. That scored highly on Metacritic, and is in no way retro, or arsy.

But I'm not doing the truly epic list enough justice. I suggest you perhaps look up indie games on steam, or something along those lines, because they go way beyond "retro throwback artsy wankfests" and in fact there are indie games to fill every niche, including MMO.

I think, if you were a little more open-minded about it, you'd find stuff you could enjoy more. Rather than assuming that they're all of one kind. Because the strength in indie is that, unlike AAA, it has very little homogenization.

 

[noreshadow]

@ Vault101
"I'm not going to deny there are problems, but rather then spell doom Id rather wait and see what happens"

As far as i can tell, those have to be the exact sentiments of business execs of these major developers
over 10 years of knowing about these problems, do you know what happened? things got worse....

I don't know why I'm even trying to argue this.. believe it or don't, it doesn't change anything.
and there's nothing you can do except grit your teeth and wait for a train wreck anyways..

It should be kinda entertaining though if your vindictive towards the industry.

 

[thesilentman]

But on the other hand, there is just so much stuff going on in gaming right now that isn't declining. There's the explosion of the indie scene that has lead to more fantastic, unique games than ever before. There's the huge potential of the Kickstarter phenomenon to bring back long dead genres and franchises, in addition to providing plenty of new experiences. Really, you can't proclaim the death of gaming without at least looking at some of this stuff.

OP, this man has it right. The indie game scene, along with Kickstarter, is brimming at this time. It's a good day to be a gamer now, as we have these experiences, along with the occasional good console game like Dark Souls come around. Gaming isn't dying, triple AAA gaming is dying, and frankly, fuck it. I've got better enjoyment out of indie releases this past year than most triple AAA games out there.

 

[Vault101]

Is that experience called "playing the same game over and over again?"

I jest. Mostly.

nope

hence why I dont like multiplayer

I think, if you were a little more open-minded about it, you'd find stuff you could enjoy more. Rather than assuming that they're all of one kind. Because the strength in indie is that, unlike AAA, it has very little homogenization.

truck simulator? XD

I know I cant paint all indie games with the same brush, I dont know....I guess I like shiney games too much (I am a PC gamer) another thing is often my only option for purchasing games is physical copy,

the only arguably "indie" game I know if that I show a tiny bit of interest in is Wasteland 2

@ Vault101
"I'm not going to deny there are problems, but rather then spell doom Id rather wait and see what happens"

As far as i can tell, those have to be the exact sentiments of business execs of these major developers
over 6 years of knowing about these problems, do you know what happened? things got worse....
.

I ment me..not them, I dont work in the industry

the industry needs to get its shit together...but no one knows how that can happen, so personally Id rather think about other things that get all stressed on forums

 

[Vault101]

OP, this man has it right. The indie game scene, along with Kickstarter, is brimming at this time. It's a good day to be a gamer now, as we have these experiences, along with the occasional good console game like Dark Souls come around. Gaming isn't dying, triple AAA gaming is dying, and frankly, fuck it. I've got better enjoyment out of indie releases this past year than most triple AAA games out there.

like what?

I just dont find thease games enjoyable or apealing in any way....

 

[Rachmaninov]

Surely you've got to admit that the areas in Absolution are more "long and thin" than being open plan like Blood Money?

It doesn't matter whether you shoot or sneak, or a mixture of both, you'll end up walking the exact same path through the game, step for step.

Not to mention the fact that the game punishes you for doing anything other than stealth, with that really absurd score counter. Sure, Blood Money had the assessment at the end of the mission, but it didn't make any attempt to say that murdering absolutely everyone was you being bad at the game.

Personally, I thought Absolution should've been called Splinter Cell: Absolution instead of Hitman. Especially since the disguise mechanic, which had been so incredibly integral in Blood Money, barely makes an appearance here. Unless you're eating donuts, because then you're invisible.

The new disguise mechanic really annoyed me in Absolution. It got really annoying that half of the disguises were pretty much useless.

I dont think Absolutions levels were any less linear then Blood Moneys. You still had to go through the exact same hallways to do every mission. I do think they were often seemed smaller and more linear though because they were broken up into more segments. There were a lot of go through these five back alley/sewer like hallways with only one route before you get into the large open area where you can do whatever you want though.

I suppose you're right, in that the main assassination areas were more open-plan, but it was those hallways between which coloured the game for me.

Yes, it made the game more cinematic, but with Blood Money, you started in the wide-open areas, and when you were finished with that wide-open area, you were moved to the next. And not through like five linear miniature levels.

Honestly, the point where I got to the train station, and had to blend in with the crowd, while sneaking around undisguised, creeping along ledges and putting one hand over my face every time a guard saw me... I had to ask "What is it that makes this a Hitman game?" and the only answer I could come up with at the time was "The bald guy I'm playing".

I loved Blood Money, and I think my love for Blood Money soured Absolution for me.

That and the stupid score meter judging me. I couldn't do anything except what the score meter thought appropriate, without it screaming "NO, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!" every time I tried to do anything different.

 

[EHKOS]

For me, gaming died as soon as I realized that corporations can do this:

Spoiler

Broke that childhood innocence and turned me into a bitter old man. Far Cry 3 and Borderlands 2 weren't bad though...

 

[Rachmaninov]

Is that experience called "playing the same game over and over again?"

I jest. Mostly.

nope

hence why I dont like multiplayer

Even single player games are being homogenized. Just look at Dead Space 3. "Appeal to a broader audience" says EA, when what they mean is "Be less like Dead Space, more like other, more popular games!".

AAA really doesn't have many new entries, even in the single player department, recently.

There's Dishonoured. That's good. But I'm struggling to think of anything else.

It's all sequels, reboots and copies. Even playing predominately SP games, how long will it be until you're playing Borderlands 8, and it's still basically just the first game, but with a new story and characters? As great as Borderlands is, any fan will lose the love for something if they just keep replaying it endlessly.

truck simulator? XD

PC Gamer said, and I quote:

"Unexpectedly engrossing. Heed the mockers and you'll miss one of the PC's finest and freshest driving games."

I know I cant paint all indie games with the same brush, I dont know....I guess I like shiney games too much (I am a PC gamer) another thing is often my only option for purchasing games is physical copy,

the only arguably "indie" game I know if that I show a tiny bit of interest in is Wasteland 2

I'd remove the quotation marks around the word "Indie" there. Wasteland 2 is Indie, and I think the reason you use quotation marks is because you think "Indie" means something other than a studio working without a publisher.

That's all it means. Indies not a genre or anything. It's just when games are released by the company that made them, and it's short for independent. (Just in case, I'm not intending to be patronizing, if you know this, I just have a suspicion from what you've said, that you might not)

Some indie games are shiny. Humour me for a second, and go watch the trailer for Euro Truck Simulator 2. That's shiny.

If PC is your main platform, why are you tied to physical copies? I ask just out of interest.

 

[xDarc]

Gaming has largely been dead to me since the xbox360 came out, and everyone was a gamer all of a sudden. Before that, games were constantly new, fresh, evolving, challenging, offensive... but most importantly they were fun. I had an entire closet full of encyclopedia-sized 90s computer software boxes. Now I buy 3 games a year or so. I first noticed it around the time FallOut 3 came out and I was like cool, what should I play next? And there was nothing interesting.

 

[thesilentman]

OP, this man has it right. The indie game scene, along with Kickstarter, is brimming at this time. It's a good day to be a gamer now, as we have these experiences, along with the occasional good console game like Dark Souls come around. Gaming isn't dying, triple AAA gaming is dying, and frankly, fuck it. I've got better enjoyment out of indie releases this past year than most triple AAA games out there.

like what?

I just dont find thease games enjoyable or apealing in any way....

My choice of games that I'm alternating between right now aren't quite indie, but they're not backed as well as EA or Activision, for instance.

-Ys Origins
-Dark Souls
-Cave Story
-Dwarf Fortress
-Nethack
-The Basement Collection
-Amnesia The Dark Descent

Okay, I understand that Dark Souls isn't as "indie" as the others, but the point still stands.

I've also have to ask why you have a vendetta against indie games. The only difference between those guys and the AAA games is that AAA have more developers and money behind the games. I'm just trying to know your view on this, not really anything else.

 

[Zhukov]

Speak for yourself.

90% of my memorable gaming experiences come from games made after 2004.

Please list a few.

Sure.

- Bioshock (as well as the sequel to a lesser extent)
- Mass Effect series.
- Half Life 2 and the Episodes.
- Portal 1+2
- Left 4 Dead
- Shadow of the Colossus
- Mirror's Edge
- Journey
- Amnesia: The Dark Descent
- The Walking Dead
- Bulletstorm
- DayZ

Compare to older games I find memorable:
- System Shock 2
- Planescape Torment
- Fallout
- Deus Ex
- Uh... Exile/Avernum series? Although I only remember those because they were some of the first games I really got into. In retrospect they were pretty crummy.

So yeah. I have my issues with the industry, but I'm not about to start bemoaning the death of gaming anytime soon.

 

[Klagermeister]

I honestly don't see what everyone is complaining about. To say that games today aren't as compelling as they were during the infancy years of the industry is essentially calling upon the spirit of every old man complaining about change.

That said, I truly, truly enjoy the AAA titles that I get to play. I find it reeeeally hard to dislike a AAA game, simply because damn near all of them are so fun.

Last time I checked, very very few games from back in the day had any real replay value, or feature that kept the game fresh and exciting for dozens, even hundreds, of hours. As a result, games like Skyrim, Assassin's Creed, Dead Island, Mass Effect, Halo... All those are truly fun for me to play.
Don't get me wrong; there are many games from the old school that I really loved (e.g. Zelda, Megaman X, Sparkster, Ghouls and Ghosts), but to say these games are more compelling and just all-around "better" than most titles being released today is just... wrong.

Since the industry is growing, there are of course going to be games that suck. That's what sucks about any industry growing: the amount of chaff grows with the amount of wheat, but to point to this as evidence of the industry's downfall shows a misunderstanding of how any media really came to be.

I'm sure just a dozen years from now, people will point to games released this year and compare them to the games released during their time, and say the same thing. People will defend the media that just so happened to release during their time purely for its nostalgic value. This happens with every product ever.
"Digital format music can't compare to a nice old vinyl track."
"No movie could ever bring about a story as well as a good book."
"Television of today is just garbage. Back in my day, cartoons were actually good and sensible."
"The cars manufactured today are garbage. What could be better than cruising in a '55 Buick?"

I just consider anyone who makes such arguments to be entirely ignorant and naive of the topic. Damn near everything is improving nowadays, and gaming is no exception.

[sarcasm]...But what do I know? I'm just some whippersnapper that doesn't know what a *real* game is. [/sarcasm]

Captcha: don't stop
That's right, captcha. Don't stop improving video games. Don't stop its growth as an art form.

 

[Rachmaninov]

I honestly don't see what everyone is complaining about.

While I agree that people often look back at the "good ol' days" and say everything today is bad, but that's only a tiny part of what's going on now.

AAA games are, as a whole, homogenizing.

The big publishers throw more money than they can reasonably afford at a game, and then want to make it more like Call of Duty, so that it sells enough copies to make back the money they spent.

Example: Dead Space 3. EA attempt to "Appeal to a broader audience" by making it less like Dead Space, and more like other popular franchises, because they know they need to sell five million copies (a truly unreasonable number to expect from DS3) to be viable because they spent too much damn money making it.

Another example: Resident Evil 6. Capcom try to make RE6 appeal to the Call of Duty crowd, and end up making a grey homogenized blob which doesn't really appeal to anyone because it's trying to hard to be everything all at once, and not succeeding in any one field.

So each time, the spending gets more and more, and the expectations grow proportionately. And with the expectations, the pressure grows. And the pressure encourages developers and publishers alike to make their game appeal to as many audiences as possible. And that means making your game more like the golden boy franchises like Call of Duty. And that's going on industry-wide.

It's not a problem that's always been there. It's new.

Yes, old games had lots of copy-cats and spin-offs, too. But it wasn't a case where games cost so much to make competitive, that the whole industry is forced into turning their existing franchises into copies of the really popular franchises.

That's what's killing AAA. And when Call of Duty falls off of its perch, everything that is, by then, mutilated into being as much like it as possible, will die with it.

 

[BeerTent]

[...]The cost of game development has increased exponentially over the last generation, and shows no sign of stopping. [...]

Others have poked holes in other parts of your post, I just wanna take an opportunity to post this, it makes me chuckle. By the way, this is all in USD.

http://imgur.com/a/CRMPH

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

-snip-

AAA gaming may be stagnating and becoming a homogenised mess, but don't discount the entire industry because of that.

Try some indie titles, they tend to be cheap and be really fun to play.

 

[noreshadow]

@ BeerTent I have a feeling your miss understanding what I'm talking about.....

not the cost of games...the cost of DEVELOPING games...

Arguing against the unsustainability of the AAA industry is like arguing against unsustainability of the oil industry. Its not so much an opinion as it is denial.
_______________________________________________________________________________

I made my own case as to why earlier, if your interested go look it up on page 1.

but i feel i need to address why you shouldn't get all down about it if you like AAA games.

The end of the old AAA gaming model is inevitable, whether it comes through complete collapse or sudden adaptation. the industry as we know it is going to end. I personally think soon, but maybe a little later(next next gen)
That's Ok.
Its actually better than Ok. Its great.

Outside of just crappy business practices, the current giant publisher working conditions are depressing (from what i hear) and tons of truly genius minds are leaving making AAA games
(To count just lead designers : Will Wright, Keiji Inafune, Tim Schafer ext..) witch is really tragic.

Thats not just me going "AAA suck, Indie for life WHOOT!"

There are certain AWESOME games that can only be made with huge amounts of money and people. and no kick starter has gotten near that $50,000,000 that next gen games could very well cost.

to quote: http://www.polygon.com/2012/10/1/3439738/the-state-of-games-state-of-aaa

"DEVELOPING A AAA GAME IS ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE ENTERPRISES HUMANS CAN UNDERTAKE, OUTSIDE OF BUILDING BATTLESHIPS, LAUNCHING SPACE VEHICLES OR MAKING MOVIES"


Having said that,

I have a feeling, when the industry changes, however that may be, it will come together again in a similar fashion as the movie industry, games will be made by a loose collaboration of different companies, each specializing in a different aspect.

( In moves this would be akin to how one company handles catering, another handles costumes yet another sound, ext.. all under a director appointed by the publisher for that specific movie.)

By no extreme abstraction of imagination the lighting team could be a totally separate company from the physics team ext. that all come together to make a game.then disperse to regroup on other totally separate projects. That they themselves actually want to work on.

the result would be unique products with more individual creativity and passion on every level.

How cool would it be to actually know the name of some texture art department you really like ? and be able to get excited when they're working on a project with some sound company you like? all under the direction of some game designer you love. as opposed to just, boy i sure hope they don't fuck up fallout 7....

In short I'm not scared that "the end is near",
I'm excited that " the beginning is near"

Not just for the future of indie games, but all games.

 

[Vault101]

That's what's killing AAA. And when Call of Duty falls off of its perch, everything that is, by then, mutilated into being as much like it as possible, will die with it.

uhh what?

what already exists can't fail...if anything COD going out of fashion is a good thing...its too damn influentual in all the worst ways

Even single player games are being homogenized. Just look at Dead Space 3. "Appeal to a broader audience" says EA, when what they mean is "Be less like Dead Space, more like other, more popular games!".

and see hoe well that worked out for them..then again this is EA...their next game could cause an atomic explosion in a major city and they still wouldnt get it

[quote/]
It's all sequels, reboots and copies.[/quote]
I like how people complain so much about seaquels when more often or not its the second game of a seres thats often considered the best...

as for reboots I thouroghly enjoys DMC and Tomb raider even more...somtimes good things can come out of them

hell do you remember prince of persia sands of time? that was a reboot

to be fair I'm not going to deny we are in desperate need of New IP's and Ideas

[quote/]Even playing predominately SP games, how long will it be until you're playing Borderlands 8, and it's still basically just the first game, but with a new story and characters? As great as Borderlands is, any fan will lose the love for something if they just keep replaying it endlessly.[/quote]
trends come and go, for better or worse things may not stay the same forever

overall AAA games are the ones I predominatly play and havnt put me off just yet

[
[quote/]
That's all it means. Indies not a genre or anything. It's just when games are released by the company that made them, and it's short for independent. (Just in case, I'm not intending to be patronizing, if you know this, I just have a suspicion from what you've said, that you might not)[/quote]
I understand what indie is and means....like many terms it comes with preconceptions which I know may not be entirly acurite

[quote/]If PC is your main platform, why are you tied to physical copies? I ask just out of interest.[/quote]
first it was a "I cant buy things online" issue...now its mainly a "have to watch the internet cap" issue

I've also have to ask why you have a vendetta against indie games. The only difference between those guys and the AAA games is that AAA have more developers and money behind the games. I'm just trying to know your view on this, not really anything else.

I'm not ging to deny part of it is unreasonable

its just I dont like alot of thease so called "indie games" I fully admit that I'm quite ignorant about whats out there...but to me they come across merely as cute time wasters in the same vein as angry birds

I mean SURE jouney was nice..I get what they were going for and it did get to me on an emotional level...but I also thought "jesus christ this is pretentious" which I know is stupid, but I feel like Ive grown to really dislike the "hipster" attitude, posts like this:

AAA gaming may be stagnating and becoming a homogenised mess, but don't discount the entire industry because of that.

Try some indie titles, they tend to be cheap and be really fun to play.

really grind my gears, and its not because of the poster (so no, your not a dirty hipster)

its because when you like somthing, to have it decleared crap most of the time, especially when you see no alternative...well were I a little more nuerotic about thease things it might make my insides twist a bit

its made me hate the "sterotypical" indie game with cute cartoony/retro throwback graphics and some "quriky" mechanic going on

in other words the problem is more with me than it is the games (but the games dont get off scot free)

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

-snip-

Indie games may be mostly nothing but cute cartoony/retro throwback graphics and some "quriky" mechanic but don't discount the entire genre because of that.

YOU don't like 'indie' games, good for you!

The OP doesn't like AAA games, good for him too!


Now that you've finished whining that there are people that don't like the current direction of the AAA genre, perhaps you would like to help the OP find a reason to continue to enjoy games.