Its nice to know this kind of crap is still being thrown around. I'v myself have lost count of how many times I have been called a fag or gay for no reason, its alot of crap people unfortunatly have to deal with even in the gaming community.
"Gaymers" Speak Out On Homophobia
- Thread starter Nathan Meunier
- Start date
I personally cannot stand people who judge others due to their beliefs, heritage, race, gender, orientation, or anything. Intolerance is something that needs to be stopped, people need to be more compassionate and understanding.
It truly saddens me to know that so many of us are nothing more than ignorant, hate-filled idiots... It sickens me to know that the majority of the human population seem to think that anyone who is different in any way needs to be killed/punished/converted/etc.
I've lost much of my faith in humanity due to these ignorant monsters... I'm the kind of person who tries to be as compassionate and understanding as I can, trying to evaluate situations from all angles and negotiate peacefully. Unfortunately, we live in a world where the biggest jerk wins and the nice folks get walked all over.
I really don't understand why so many people lack the common sense and decency to acknowledge the fact that it's ok to be different. Quite honestly, I feel sorry for them. They live in this little world where anything different is bad, any idea that contradicts the old ideas are blasphemy, guys have to look and act this way, girls have to look and act that way, etc etc blah blah blah...
How boring is that? The way I see it, today's mainstream average Joe football player homophobic Christians are going to end up ruining society forever. Take away the individuals and the free thinkers, philosophers, artists, and other such alternative people, and America is left with nothing but media-addicted ignorant sheeple.
One thing I've noticed is that most homosexual/bisexual/pansexual/transgendered people are far more open and accepting of others compared to just about everyone else. Along those same lines, I've also found that most artist/philosopher/writer type people are also more open and accepting, and come to think of it, most of the homo/bi/pan/trans-sexual people I know are artists or writers or gamers or astro-physicists. XD
I think what I'm trying to get at is that the mainstream way of thinking is generally what makes people ignorant and prejudiced against anyone or anything that's different. When you take all the preps and jocks and religious fanatics and conservative peoples and put them in a group together, then take all the gay, artsy, open-minded peoples into another group, you really see a HUGE difference in the way each group, in general, tends to think.
for example... and mind you that this is just my own personal conclusion:
The LHC finally proves the big bang theory and completely changes the way we perceive the universe and existence...
Artsy/gay group: "Wow! that's amazing! This completely changes our perspective on how the universe works! Maybe now we can finally explain all of the scientific mysteries that have eluded us for so long!"
Mainstream/sheeple group: " LOL WUT? I'm gonna go watch the superbowl now. You guys are freaking nerds.
or whatever...
Granted, not all jocks are homophobic jerks, and not all artists are open and compassionate, but in general I'd say there are more nice artists than there are nice jocks.
In fact, I've yet to meet a single person IRL who is both an an artist of some sort and an ignorant homophobe at the same time. Nearly every person I've met who is involved with the artsy-alternative-gamer group is either bi/gay or completely unfazed by it. Also, in about three or four years of membership at deviantart.com (essentially myspace/blog for artists), I have never been bashed or ridiculed due to my sexuality, even though just about everyone knows that I am bisexual. I've found that a large number of members of the site are either bi/gay, support homosexuality, don't care, or just keep their mouths shut. Granted, like all websites, the occasional 12 year old idiot pops in and harasses the chatrooms until he's banned, but from what I've seen it doesn't happen too often.
All in all, people need to be more open, more accepting, and more compassionate. Today's media is full of a lot of negatives, and fills people's minds with the idea that it's cool to be an uncaring, idiotic jerk. If people were brought up in a more positive environment in which the role models were good citizens and not people like 'Fiddy cent' and the guys from Jackass... maybe the world would be a nicer place.
that's just me... sorry for the rant. lol
It truly saddens me to know that so many of us are nothing more than ignorant, hate-filled idiots... It sickens me to know that the majority of the human population seem to think that anyone who is different in any way needs to be killed/punished/converted/etc.
I've lost much of my faith in humanity due to these ignorant monsters... I'm the kind of person who tries to be as compassionate and understanding as I can, trying to evaluate situations from all angles and negotiate peacefully. Unfortunately, we live in a world where the biggest jerk wins and the nice folks get walked all over.
I really don't understand why so many people lack the common sense and decency to acknowledge the fact that it's ok to be different. Quite honestly, I feel sorry for them. They live in this little world where anything different is bad, any idea that contradicts the old ideas are blasphemy, guys have to look and act this way, girls have to look and act that way, etc etc blah blah blah...
How boring is that? The way I see it, today's mainstream average Joe football player homophobic Christians are going to end up ruining society forever. Take away the individuals and the free thinkers, philosophers, artists, and other such alternative people, and America is left with nothing but media-addicted ignorant sheeple.
One thing I've noticed is that most homosexual/bisexual/pansexual/transgendered people are far more open and accepting of others compared to just about everyone else. Along those same lines, I've also found that most artist/philosopher/writer type people are also more open and accepting, and come to think of it, most of the homo/bi/pan/trans-sexual people I know are artists or writers or gamers or astro-physicists. XD
I think what I'm trying to get at is that the mainstream way of thinking is generally what makes people ignorant and prejudiced against anyone or anything that's different. When you take all the preps and jocks and religious fanatics and conservative peoples and put them in a group together, then take all the gay, artsy, open-minded peoples into another group, you really see a HUGE difference in the way each group, in general, tends to think.
for example... and mind you that this is just my own personal conclusion:
The LHC finally proves the big bang theory and completely changes the way we perceive the universe and existence...
Artsy/gay group: "Wow! that's amazing! This completely changes our perspective on how the universe works! Maybe now we can finally explain all of the scientific mysteries that have eluded us for so long!"
Mainstream/sheeple group: " LOL WUT? I'm gonna go watch the superbowl now. You guys are freaking nerds.
or whatever...
Granted, not all jocks are homophobic jerks, and not all artists are open and compassionate, but in general I'd say there are more nice artists than there are nice jocks.
In fact, I've yet to meet a single person IRL who is both an an artist of some sort and an ignorant homophobe at the same time. Nearly every person I've met who is involved with the artsy-alternative-gamer group is either bi/gay or completely unfazed by it. Also, in about three or four years of membership at deviantart.com (essentially myspace/blog for artists), I have never been bashed or ridiculed due to my sexuality, even though just about everyone knows that I am bisexual. I've found that a large number of members of the site are either bi/gay, support homosexuality, don't care, or just keep their mouths shut. Granted, like all websites, the occasional 12 year old idiot pops in and harasses the chatrooms until he's banned, but from what I've seen it doesn't happen too often.
All in all, people need to be more open, more accepting, and more compassionate. Today's media is full of a lot of negatives, and fills people's minds with the idea that it's cool to be an uncaring, idiotic jerk. If people were brought up in a more positive environment in which the role models were good citizens and not people like 'Fiddy cent' and the guys from Jackass... maybe the world would be a nicer place.
that's just me... sorry for the rant. lol
I have absolutely nothing against gay people. Though I have to agree this thread that was meant to be about discussing the horrors of hate speech online (specifically against 'gays') is turning into a blame game. Also, when people say someone is gay, why does everyone jump to the conclusion that the person is a male? Most of the people I know who are 'gay' are actually girls and if anything, would rather be called a lesbian.
As a joke between friends, I agree it is ok to call each other gay as everyone knows it's just a joke and take it lightly, occasionally being sarcastic and faking hurt. However, when it comes to a total stranger calling you offensive words online during gaming, that brings this into a completely different perspective.
Gaming is meant to be fun and enjoyable, not painful or depressing. And not just for on party either but for everyone. Many people, apparently, get a kick out of mocking and hurting others. Common knowledge that they teach in schools is that bullies hurt others because they have personal problems that they do not how to deal with and take it out on others, somehow convincing themselves that it's the victim's fault which can become quite a scary thing. Or, they're a**holes who have no sense of respect towards anyone.
And about the whole "don't announce you're gay" thing, which is blaming the victim. Most of you have your heart in the right place but putting it in words is beyond your grasp. I appreciate that you care but please think before you post.
Also the "blame society" argument. Why follow society? Do you not have a brain, mindset of your own? Must you insist on following what 'society' tells you?
If it's hard for you understand what I'm saying (which I don't blame you for, I'm very challenged in conveying what I mean), imagine that the majority of the world was homosexual, bisexual, transexual or asexual, whichever and the minority was being heterosexual. It's difficult to think of because we're surrounded everyday with the thought that being heterosexual is 'normal' but what if suddenly, one day, a magic fairy appeared and decided everyone would be anything but heterosexual except for a few people? Those heterosexuals go to school, work, wherever and they're suddenly assaulted by comments, rude gestures and all together very inappropriate messages about their sexualty. And what exactly is 'normal' anyway? In the (stereotypical) high school way of looking at it, being normal means being friends with more than half the school, ditching class, not doing your homework, smoking and wearing brand name clothes. How many people do you see actually doing that? As far as I can tell, not many.
'Gays' do not go around saying that they are 'gay'. Unless, for some reason, asked or discussing with friends, you'll very rarely see or hear someone proclaiming their sexual orientation. Why is it that people think 'gay' PDA is disgusting? I, personally, find any sort of PDA awkward but I pay no attention to it as that's how they are showing their affection for one another. 'Gays' should be able to hold hands, hug, give pecks to one another without people looking at them in total disgust thinking, 'I wanna shoot them/kill them/whatever uncreative thing pops into their head'. I agree that no one's perfect and some people just can't stand homosexuals and I'm fine with that as long as they keep those kind of comments to themselves. They can go hate in private or something.
Now that I have kinda shot down some arguments 'against' this thread, I'll take a moment to address the victims of hate speech.
I have never been in a situation where a someone suddenly announces their sexual orientation. Therefore, I cannot address the argument of "[insert orientation] are just asking for it when they say they're [insert orientation]". However, I will have to tell to keep in mind that people who say these kind of things either a) don't mean it as they are in an irrational state of mind b) are idiots c) are bullies who have personal issues or d) a**holes. Ignore them as best as you can and if you gets too much, report it (if possible).
I'm sorry if this post was bad or rushed or anything but it was done in a hurry and I apologize if I have insulted anyone.
As a joke between friends, I agree it is ok to call each other gay as everyone knows it's just a joke and take it lightly, occasionally being sarcastic and faking hurt. However, when it comes to a total stranger calling you offensive words online during gaming, that brings this into a completely different perspective.
Gaming is meant to be fun and enjoyable, not painful or depressing. And not just for on party either but for everyone. Many people, apparently, get a kick out of mocking and hurting others. Common knowledge that they teach in schools is that bullies hurt others because they have personal problems that they do not how to deal with and take it out on others, somehow convincing themselves that it's the victim's fault which can become quite a scary thing. Or, they're a**holes who have no sense of respect towards anyone.
And about the whole "don't announce you're gay" thing, which is blaming the victim. Most of you have your heart in the right place but putting it in words is beyond your grasp. I appreciate that you care but please think before you post.
Also the "blame society" argument. Why follow society? Do you not have a brain, mindset of your own? Must you insist on following what 'society' tells you?
If it's hard for you understand what I'm saying (which I don't blame you for, I'm very challenged in conveying what I mean), imagine that the majority of the world was homosexual, bisexual, transexual or asexual, whichever and the minority was being heterosexual. It's difficult to think of because we're surrounded everyday with the thought that being heterosexual is 'normal' but what if suddenly, one day, a magic fairy appeared and decided everyone would be anything but heterosexual except for a few people? Those heterosexuals go to school, work, wherever and they're suddenly assaulted by comments, rude gestures and all together very inappropriate messages about their sexualty. And what exactly is 'normal' anyway? In the (stereotypical) high school way of looking at it, being normal means being friends with more than half the school, ditching class, not doing your homework, smoking and wearing brand name clothes. How many people do you see actually doing that? As far as I can tell, not many.
'Gays' do not go around saying that they are 'gay'. Unless, for some reason, asked or discussing with friends, you'll very rarely see or hear someone proclaiming their sexual orientation. Why is it that people think 'gay' PDA is disgusting? I, personally, find any sort of PDA awkward but I pay no attention to it as that's how they are showing their affection for one another. 'Gays' should be able to hold hands, hug, give pecks to one another without people looking at them in total disgust thinking, 'I wanna shoot them/kill them/whatever uncreative thing pops into their head'. I agree that no one's perfect and some people just can't stand homosexuals and I'm fine with that as long as they keep those kind of comments to themselves. They can go hate in private or something.
Now that I have kinda shot down some arguments 'against' this thread, I'll take a moment to address the victims of hate speech.
I have never been in a situation where a someone suddenly announces their sexual orientation. Therefore, I cannot address the argument of "[insert orientation] are just asking for it when they say they're [insert orientation]". However, I will have to tell to keep in mind that people who say these kind of things either a) don't mean it as they are in an irrational state of mind b) are idiots c) are bullies who have personal issues or d) a**holes. Ignore them as best as you can and if you gets too much, report it (if possible).
I'm sorry if this post was bad or rushed or anything but it was done in a hurry and I apologize if I have insulted anyone.
For Australia, the average age is 28, if memory serves me right. In the US, I think it's a bit older.Lupie post=7.72320.755958 said:
As for the article, I think that, in order for the homophobia to stop, we need to crack down on the leniency that allows for such behaviour. Unfortunately, it's festered to such an extent that it's a very large task to accomplish. If only the Xbox Live banhammer was used a tad bit more, instead of becoming dusty and rusty.
I would imagine that homosexual gamers bring out their sexual preferences in gaming environments, for roughly the same reason you throw grenades around corners, in shooters;
They're checking whether there are any baddies left. Naturally, when they are not in a place where physical violence is a functional threat, it is a lot more feasible for them to seek confrontation with their persecuters.
It only gets annoying and long-winded when there's actually a homophobe present, something I won't blame on the homosexuals.
They're checking whether there are any baddies left. Naturally, when they are not in a place where physical violence is a functional threat, it is a lot more feasible for them to seek confrontation with their persecuters.
It only gets annoying and long-winded when there's actually a homophobe present, something I won't blame on the homosexuals.
see, there is a huge fallacy in your logic.Kukul post=7.72320.758532 said:
Gay Culture is what Straight people labeled effeminate men. There is no such thing as Gay Culture. The reason there are Gay Pride Parade is that it sends a message to the haters. There is absolutely no need for a Straight Pride parade because Straight people aren't discriminated against. No, don't even try to argue that. When was the last time you got shit for kissing your girlfriend in public? I'm willing to bet my life you DIDN'T.
Gaygamer.net exists as a safe haven for gay gamers to socialize and be who they are. It's just as much about socializing that it is about games. There is no straightgamer.net because there is ABSOLUTELY no need for one. EVERY gaming website is straightgamer.net.
Now do you get it?
Nice way to change the subject, dip shit.Kyprioth657 post=7.72320.758784 said:
No, you have absolutely no right to bash gays. It's a direct violation of the terms of service in every online game. You of course, are above the law, because who cares what others think, you do what you want. Who cares if people on Xbox live shell out 50 bucks a year to play in a semi decent enviroment. Who cares that you signed a legally binding contract with microsoft or valve to hold up their terms of service. If you honestly think you have the right to bash gays online, you are no older than 14.
This bullshit about hearing gays talk about sex is absolute and total fucking bullshit. Give me an audio recording. I've got plenty of unprovoked attacks on gays. Your a fucking retard if you think that this has anything to do with gays that provoke it. Every single slur in that video wasn't directed at anyone, just gays in general.
For your closing statement, what the fuck? This isn't middle school. Your not coming off as "cool", and to be honest, your coming off as an immature twat that thinks he's a rebel.
Why would you want to judge people at all?
Anyway, I wanted to say, "It's always been that way" and "Things will never change" are some pretty bad arguments. Compare the practice of beating your children; there's one time-honored tradition that have changed, as these days most educated people are aware that making your children disciplined, respectful and fearful at any cost is a bad thing. The prevailing superstitions and taboos of society do change over time. And if they don't change fast enough to suit you you can try to do something about it.
Your online conduct and interaction with other subscribers should be guided by common sense and basic etiquette
I'm fairly certain that "basic etiquette" involves, at the very least, to avoid racism and, to put it in your oh-so-eloquent terms, "No making fun of faggots." God, made me shudder typing that.
I'm fairly certain that "basic etiquette" involves, at the very least, to avoid racism and, to put it in your oh-so-eloquent terms, "No making fun of faggots." God, made me shudder typing that.
Hello Everyone, this is my first post and I registered an account specifically to response to a few statements and provide a solution, at least, a temporary solution on preventing and dealing with homophobia in the online community. Before I go on, this is how I handle situations; I am gay and I play video games online, mostly on PC. If this helps you please use the method I do to handle homo phobics, if not then please do no more than give constructive criticism on how to improve or create a long term and hopefully permanent solution. Now, onto the main point of this post:
First to Texian, I am sorry if I misspelled your name as I am tired at the moment from sleep deprivation from playing too many hours of video games online. I agreed with...Knell? Khell? You Texian and Orekhay or something....I am going to bed in about 20 minutes...You are both agitators, you both seem set on the opinion that you can tell anyone you're gay and you should not receive any reprimands for it; that is wrong. I will explain why later, and just to note, it is wrong now with our society. Since homosexuality is not completely excepted, we (homosexuals) must asses when is and when is not the right time to openly be gay. I am fine with people who are openly gay, but they should tune down the amount of openness depending on the group of people they tell and the setting, again more on this as I go on. Sorry again for my errors, well anyway I agree with the one who posted much on keeping your sexual orientation to yourself. I also agree with you. My position on this is a compromise between the two.
I do not think that anyone should speak about their sexual orientation in a place that it does not matter and is just nonsense. Telling someone online in a game like Battlefield 2142 won't really do much in any situation, it certainly won't help when your Titan is being raided and sabotaged. In situations like that I focus more on defending my base and not getting killed. In less extreme situations, such as trotting over with a few comrades to capture a point, while running there I do not think about telling anyone I'm gay, I am thinking, "Is that small movement a sniper hiding in the bushes?" and only think about getting to the point alive.
Now I assume you are speaking about docile setting though, such as in the lobby or while the team is planning an assault, or just diddling around and chatting. In these situations anyone must think about what they say. I don't speak about the fact I'm gay all the time, because it is not relevant usually to the topic or because I am sure that no one would care. But if I do have a spontaneous moment where I say I'm gay, I first think about the people I am going to tell that fact to. If I am playing a game with a team of professional seemingly mature players, I might tell mention it. But I also think of another possibility, what if they don't care, and get angry at me not for being gay, but wasting time or maybe I might seem like I want to start trouble. If the people and setting is right, and I want to tell some person(s) I'm gay, I do it subtly. Example, if my team is taking a break, I might say, "BRB. Boyfriend buzzing me on MSN." Now, they might or might not know I am male. But my manner and usernames usually have people assume I am male. This way I do it subtly. I give them a reason why I am going to be right back while I let on, I am gay. But I did not do it directly. If they can figure it out, I did not tell them directly so they don't see it as making trouble. And since the people I let know are usually mature and polite, they don't say anything about it. I get an occasional, "Are you a guy?" from someone who wants to know if I am a girl with a boyfriend or I am gay. I just say Yes, and it usually ends there or they just say, "oh." then leave it at that. This is a, for lack of a better word, nicer and polite way to let people know you're gay. Those who openly and often abruptly announce they are gay, bother people. Even other homosexuals. I do not want to have someone bringing it up suddenly, they could, but the odds of it being accepted nonchalantly is very low. Mature players would just respond with, "?" "Why do we care?" or as common as I have seen, "So what?" Now this situation is when people take the time to get to know their team. Gays who announce they are homo at the beginning of a game or soon after, I think are complete retards. They do not even take the time to consider how people would respond to it. Sure homosexuality should be accepted, but what if you joined a game full of bigots? It would be your fault that you were insulted or cussed out because you did something reckless. Now, for those who join a team of bigots, find out they are bigots and still announce they're gay, that's fine, only for enlightenment reasons. If you want to try and get the to consider being gay is not bad, then go ahead and politely and maturely offer an argument with value points, personal experiences and such. Emphasis on polite, which you Texian have not been except maybe in your first post. If they disagree and you cannot seem to get them to wane at all, leave it. If they push it further leave the game, do not go around causing conflicts. This not only makes you look bad, but it hurts the image of homosexuals even farther for the bigots you argue with. And even if you do get them to accept, just a little, maybe gay is bad, tread lightly. If you continue and they start to seem to get abrasive again, stop the discussion. Simply getting them to consider homo as good is a big win. If that is all you can manage leave it at that. Also, pressuring them more might backfire and get them to never consider the possibility being gay is not bad again.
If the situation seems to be filled with bigots though, I just forget about telling them I am gay, and try to get a damn headshot on that sniper who keeps moving around so I never find him and he always shoots me in the fucking head >< He was shooting only me! (He and I were the only ones in the game :3)
This can be applied in real life, asses the situation you're in: Do the people seem polite and mature, is the fact I'm gay relevant to the conversation and/or place (for example I would not mention I am gay in a elementary school, as it would probably cause problems.) and do the people I am going to tell, really care or want to know? You can tell them even if they don't want to know, I'm all for being openly gay. But do not assume they must accept it. They might be offended or against it, but it is their "opinion". You seem to overlook while homosexuals are fighting for equal rights, we seem to be demanding bigots forfeit their right to an opinion on sexuality. I am friends with many homophobes who know I am gay. I respect they made a decision to be against it and think it's wrong, it may be how they were raised, personal experience, but I know if I want my opinion to matter with them, theirs must matter to me. I would not bother them about homosexuality after that, I would not go to them and argue with them on why being gay is right. I might suggest it but if they refuse to go into it, I forget it and talk about something else.
Texian, you seem like you would go and try to convince others to your opinion, not caring about theirs. I assume this, as I do not know you personally, please correct me if I am wrong I do not want to insult you. If someone is steadfast in opposing gays and show no signs of waning at all, then why spend energy on a pointless endeavor. In these situations with those people, the only time I know when they might change is when someone close like a family member is gay. Such as a father who is homophobic but learns his son/daughter is gay. Then he might disown or hate them, or he could learn to accept it and become enlightened. Rarely does an arguing homo convince these people that being gay is right, it usually must be an epiphany or a close personal experience.
I do not always like gay pride parades. It is all about sex, those parades. Being homosexual is not just about sex, it's the attraction and the will to devote yourself to marry someone of the same gender. A homosexual does not have to get married though, it just that they have the will and desire to. I am not against these parades happening. Sometimes I like watching them and if I might particupate in one someday; but while it's a way to let people express themselves it doesn't always impress everyone.
People, straight people, who see these parades see fetishes, perverse clothing and much of one side of being gay. Gay Pride parades advertise gay Sex. I have not once seen a Gay Pride parade where two people of the same gender are normally clothed and holding hands. It is always having enough clothes to cover maybe a quarter of a person and about sex. I love my boyfriend (future husband) and I do not care if I ever have sex; I am still a virgin, I believe only having sex with the one you marry and only that person. I am not saying having sex with others is wrong; I just decided to wait to only have sex with my mate. That's how I was raised and I don't see a reason not to wait. I care only about being with my love, spending time with them and having their support in my time of need and being their support when they need it. It is about making each other happy, the sex is just an extra for me. I'd trade in sex to spend eternity with my one and only male soulmate. Relationships of any kind, gay, straight, monogamous or open-relationship should be about love mainly, sex is second objective. (I just realized around the end of this I said objective....heh, too tired to edit right now. Gamer Speak = Fun.) Gay Pride parades should think about the image they represent, which is as of now: Sex-Crazed Homos. It scares heterosexuals and honestly, scares even me.
You both, Texian and Knell/Khell/However the hell you spell it, have valid points. Both of you have good opinions and solutions, albeit a bit dramatic and extreme. Compromising both of your opinions is the best way to deal with online (and in some cases real-life) society and being gay. And quickly before I can't keep my eyes open, Texian, I do think some situations you can be very openly gay, such as around very close friends and family and in a accepting supportive environment such as GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance) club meetings/conventions and in really, any place where there is only or at least mostly gay people. But be careful, be considerate of heterosexuals and hopefully they will be the same towards you. Their opinion and feelings matter just as much as ours, being oppressed does reserve us some leinantcy (<---I sure I misspelled that.) but it does not excuse any homosexual for being rude or being oppressive ourselves. Thinking straight people cannot be against homosexuals is oppressive since we are trying to stomp out their opinion, you saying homophobia/anti-homosexism should not exist is just as oppressive as heteros saying gay people do not matter, Texian. They have a right to their opinion and while I am glad you seem to be trying to enlighten them, do not impose your opinions on them and do not belittle their choice and opinion. Sorry if I seem to be pinking on you, I'd address more ideas and such from others, but you had the most articulate comments, although Knell/Khell ties with you, and yours are the ones I remember most, probably because of the stubborn tone of your writing(typing?)
Thanks everyone for listening to this long winded post. I could have better conveyed my opinions and address others but I am too sleepy at the current moment to edit my writing (should I say, typing?) and give a better more constructive statement and opinion. I hope my method of dealing with online gamers and real-life people can be of any help to everyone, since that is really what I think this forum is or should be about, how to deal with and come up with a solution for homophobia online And hell, while we're at it why not in real life too.
(edit: Fixed a few typos and grammar errors.)
First to Texian, I am sorry if I misspelled your name as I am tired at the moment from sleep deprivation from playing too many hours of video games online. I agreed with...Knell? Khell? You Texian and Orekhay or something....I am going to bed in about 20 minutes...You are both agitators, you both seem set on the opinion that you can tell anyone you're gay and you should not receive any reprimands for it; that is wrong. I will explain why later, and just to note, it is wrong now with our society. Since homosexuality is not completely excepted, we (homosexuals) must asses when is and when is not the right time to openly be gay. I am fine with people who are openly gay, but they should tune down the amount of openness depending on the group of people they tell and the setting, again more on this as I go on. Sorry again for my errors, well anyway I agree with the one who posted much on keeping your sexual orientation to yourself. I also agree with you. My position on this is a compromise between the two.
I do not think that anyone should speak about their sexual orientation in a place that it does not matter and is just nonsense. Telling someone online in a game like Battlefield 2142 won't really do much in any situation, it certainly won't help when your Titan is being raided and sabotaged. In situations like that I focus more on defending my base and not getting killed. In less extreme situations, such as trotting over with a few comrades to capture a point, while running there I do not think about telling anyone I'm gay, I am thinking, "Is that small movement a sniper hiding in the bushes?" and only think about getting to the point alive.
Now I assume you are speaking about docile setting though, such as in the lobby or while the team is planning an assault, or just diddling around and chatting. In these situations anyone must think about what they say. I don't speak about the fact I'm gay all the time, because it is not relevant usually to the topic or because I am sure that no one would care. But if I do have a spontaneous moment where I say I'm gay, I first think about the people I am going to tell that fact to. If I am playing a game with a team of professional seemingly mature players, I might tell mention it. But I also think of another possibility, what if they don't care, and get angry at me not for being gay, but wasting time or maybe I might seem like I want to start trouble. If the people and setting is right, and I want to tell some person(s) I'm gay, I do it subtly. Example, if my team is taking a break, I might say, "BRB. Boyfriend buzzing me on MSN." Now, they might or might not know I am male. But my manner and usernames usually have people assume I am male. This way I do it subtly. I give them a reason why I am going to be right back while I let on, I am gay. But I did not do it directly. If they can figure it out, I did not tell them directly so they don't see it as making trouble. And since the people I let know are usually mature and polite, they don't say anything about it. I get an occasional, "Are you a guy?" from someone who wants to know if I am a girl with a boyfriend or I am gay. I just say Yes, and it usually ends there or they just say, "oh." then leave it at that. This is a, for lack of a better word, nicer and polite way to let people know you're gay. Those who openly and often abruptly announce they are gay, bother people. Even other homosexuals. I do not want to have someone bringing it up suddenly, they could, but the odds of it being accepted nonchalantly is very low. Mature players would just respond with, "?" "Why do we care?" or as common as I have seen, "So what?" Now this situation is when people take the time to get to know their team. Gays who announce they are homo at the beginning of a game or soon after, I think are complete retards. They do not even take the time to consider how people would respond to it. Sure homosexuality should be accepted, but what if you joined a game full of bigots? It would be your fault that you were insulted or cussed out because you did something reckless. Now, for those who join a team of bigots, find out they are bigots and still announce they're gay, that's fine, only for enlightenment reasons. If you want to try and get the to consider being gay is not bad, then go ahead and politely and maturely offer an argument with value points, personal experiences and such. Emphasis on polite, which you Texian have not been except maybe in your first post. If they disagree and you cannot seem to get them to wane at all, leave it. If they push it further leave the game, do not go around causing conflicts. This not only makes you look bad, but it hurts the image of homosexuals even farther for the bigots you argue with. And even if you do get them to accept, just a little, maybe gay is bad, tread lightly. If you continue and they start to seem to get abrasive again, stop the discussion. Simply getting them to consider homo as good is a big win. If that is all you can manage leave it at that. Also, pressuring them more might backfire and get them to never consider the possibility being gay is not bad again.
If the situation seems to be filled with bigots though, I just forget about telling them I am gay, and try to get a damn headshot on that sniper who keeps moving around so I never find him and he always shoots me in the fucking head >< He was shooting only me! (He and I were the only ones in the game :3)
This can be applied in real life, asses the situation you're in: Do the people seem polite and mature, is the fact I'm gay relevant to the conversation and/or place (for example I would not mention I am gay in a elementary school, as it would probably cause problems.) and do the people I am going to tell, really care or want to know? You can tell them even if they don't want to know, I'm all for being openly gay. But do not assume they must accept it. They might be offended or against it, but it is their "opinion". You seem to overlook while homosexuals are fighting for equal rights, we seem to be demanding bigots forfeit their right to an opinion on sexuality. I am friends with many homophobes who know I am gay. I respect they made a decision to be against it and think it's wrong, it may be how they were raised, personal experience, but I know if I want my opinion to matter with them, theirs must matter to me. I would not bother them about homosexuality after that, I would not go to them and argue with them on why being gay is right. I might suggest it but if they refuse to go into it, I forget it and talk about something else.
Texian, you seem like you would go and try to convince others to your opinion, not caring about theirs. I assume this, as I do not know you personally, please correct me if I am wrong I do not want to insult you. If someone is steadfast in opposing gays and show no signs of waning at all, then why spend energy on a pointless endeavor. In these situations with those people, the only time I know when they might change is when someone close like a family member is gay. Such as a father who is homophobic but learns his son/daughter is gay. Then he might disown or hate them, or he could learn to accept it and become enlightened. Rarely does an arguing homo convince these people that being gay is right, it usually must be an epiphany or a close personal experience.
I do not always like gay pride parades. It is all about sex, those parades. Being homosexual is not just about sex, it's the attraction and the will to devote yourself to marry someone of the same gender. A homosexual does not have to get married though, it just that they have the will and desire to. I am not against these parades happening. Sometimes I like watching them and if I might particupate in one someday; but while it's a way to let people express themselves it doesn't always impress everyone.
People, straight people, who see these parades see fetishes, perverse clothing and much of one side of being gay. Gay Pride parades advertise gay Sex. I have not once seen a Gay Pride parade where two people of the same gender are normally clothed and holding hands. It is always having enough clothes to cover maybe a quarter of a person and about sex. I love my boyfriend (future husband) and I do not care if I ever have sex; I am still a virgin, I believe only having sex with the one you marry and only that person. I am not saying having sex with others is wrong; I just decided to wait to only have sex with my mate. That's how I was raised and I don't see a reason not to wait. I care only about being with my love, spending time with them and having their support in my time of need and being their support when they need it. It is about making each other happy, the sex is just an extra for me. I'd trade in sex to spend eternity with my one and only male soulmate. Relationships of any kind, gay, straight, monogamous or open-relationship should be about love mainly, sex is second objective. (I just realized around the end of this I said objective....heh, too tired to edit right now. Gamer Speak = Fun.) Gay Pride parades should think about the image they represent, which is as of now: Sex-Crazed Homos. It scares heterosexuals and honestly, scares even me.
You both, Texian and Knell/Khell/However the hell you spell it, have valid points. Both of you have good opinions and solutions, albeit a bit dramatic and extreme. Compromising both of your opinions is the best way to deal with online (and in some cases real-life) society and being gay. And quickly before I can't keep my eyes open, Texian, I do think some situations you can be very openly gay, such as around very close friends and family and in a accepting supportive environment such as GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance) club meetings/conventions and in really, any place where there is only or at least mostly gay people. But be careful, be considerate of heterosexuals and hopefully they will be the same towards you. Their opinion and feelings matter just as much as ours, being oppressed does reserve us some leinantcy (<---I sure I misspelled that.) but it does not excuse any homosexual for being rude or being oppressive ourselves. Thinking straight people cannot be against homosexuals is oppressive since we are trying to stomp out their opinion, you saying homophobia/anti-homosexism should not exist is just as oppressive as heteros saying gay people do not matter, Texian. They have a right to their opinion and while I am glad you seem to be trying to enlighten them, do not impose your opinions on them and do not belittle their choice and opinion. Sorry if I seem to be pinking on you, I'd address more ideas and such from others, but you had the most articulate comments, although Knell/Khell ties with you, and yours are the ones I remember most, probably because of the stubborn tone of your writing(typing?)
Thanks everyone for listening to this long winded post. I could have better conveyed my opinions and address others but I am too sleepy at the current moment to edit my writing (should I say, typing?) and give a better more constructive statement and opinion. I hope my method of dealing with online gamers and real-life people can be of any help to everyone, since that is really what I think this forum is or should be about, how to deal with and come up with a solution for homophobia online And hell, while we're at it why not in real life too.
(edit: Fixed a few typos and grammar errors.)
OK, that is officially the best first post I have seen in my time here. Congratulations, WhiteLion.
Perhaps I should have elaborated... I don't judge people for their beliefs, I judge them for their actions.
When it comes right down to it, I don't care if you're gay, lesbian, straight, Christian, Buddhist, Satanic, communist, capitalist, etc etc.
What gets me ticked off is when people are rude, uncaring, or deliberately hurt other people, as well as people who try to push their religion/belief onto others.
as for Skywier's comment... Perhaps... But if you look at it from their points of view, they both believed they were doing the right thing. Gandhi was adamant about peacefully protesting against oppression, while Hitler was trying to regain Germany's power and create the perfect society. Neither of these goals are necessarily bad, granted Gandhi's was a bit better... But it was how they were carried out that made them so different. I judge actions, not beliefs.
You can believe then Jesus is your savior and be a Christian all you want, I won't care. More power to you. But start the crusades and go off killing people in his name and you automatically become a complete jerk in my book.
So... You can believe that homosexuality is wrong or unnatural all you want, but if you start flaming people and deliberately trying to make their lives harder by hurting them... there's going to be a problem.
Your beliefs don't exactly define who you are. Your actions define you. If you believed in, say, the flying spaghetti monster but never told anyone, then went off and murdered a bunch of people... You'd be remembered as a murderer, not a pastafarianist. Hitler 'believed' that he was doing the right thing, but we remember him for what he DID, not what he believed in.
When it comes right down to it, I don't care if you're gay, lesbian, straight, Christian, Buddhist, Satanic, communist, capitalist, etc etc.
What gets me ticked off is when people are rude, uncaring, or deliberately hurt other people, as well as people who try to push their religion/belief onto others.
as for Skywier's comment... Perhaps... But if you look at it from their points of view, they both believed they were doing the right thing. Gandhi was adamant about peacefully protesting against oppression, while Hitler was trying to regain Germany's power and create the perfect society. Neither of these goals are necessarily bad, granted Gandhi's was a bit better... But it was how they were carried out that made them so different. I judge actions, not beliefs.
You can believe then Jesus is your savior and be a Christian all you want, I won't care. More power to you. But start the crusades and go off killing people in his name and you automatically become a complete jerk in my book.
So... You can believe that homosexuality is wrong or unnatural all you want, but if you start flaming people and deliberately trying to make their lives harder by hurting them... there's going to be a problem.
Your beliefs don't exactly define who you are. Your actions define you. If you believed in, say, the flying spaghetti monster but never told anyone, then went off and murdered a bunch of people... You'd be remembered as a murderer, not a pastafarianist. Hitler 'believed' that he was doing the right thing, but we remember him for what he DID, not what he believed in.
I'm quite impressed with how far this discussion has been taken. A lot of you have very good arguements, both for openness towards being different and remembering that it's not an excuse for violating basic social skills.
Ultimately though, I think I'm going to jump on the metaphorical gay bandwagon here. I find it highly unlikely that a social group as stigmatized as homosexuals randomly announce their preferences in online games. Elsewhere perhaps, but this is foremost a gaming community, so let's stick to that for now. I don't think this is an issue but if it is, Khell & co. has a point in saying that you're naive to think that you will not take some flak for it. Do you deserve it? No, but that's not how society or humans work and they probably never will.
However, the real issue at hand is that there is a lot of unfounded hate directed towards homosexuals in online gaming. And while I do respect people's privacy and understand that you need to contain some of the more... extreme... elements of your personality and behavior in a public space, I also believe that people will always fear and hate what they do not understand. So in order to make the online gaming community a better place for everyone, it is necessary to openly discuss issues such as homophobia, racism, sexism and so on. Where gay pride parades fall into this I am not sure, but I think they serve a purpose, even if that purpose is nothing more than stating "gay people are gay. Also, remember gays? They're still here".
Maybe no concensus will be reached, but as long as people are talking about it, there is a chance thay they will learn something new and grow to accept either the problem or a possible solution. It's a small step, but it's something.
@WhitelionArokh: That was quite an epic first post. I generally agree.
Ultimately though, I think I'm going to jump on the metaphorical gay bandwagon here. I find it highly unlikely that a social group as stigmatized as homosexuals randomly announce their preferences in online games. Elsewhere perhaps, but this is foremost a gaming community, so let's stick to that for now. I don't think this is an issue but if it is, Khell & co. has a point in saying that you're naive to think that you will not take some flak for it. Do you deserve it? No, but that's not how society or humans work and they probably never will.
However, the real issue at hand is that there is a lot of unfounded hate directed towards homosexuals in online gaming. And while I do respect people's privacy and understand that you need to contain some of the more... extreme... elements of your personality and behavior in a public space, I also believe that people will always fear and hate what they do not understand. So in order to make the online gaming community a better place for everyone, it is necessary to openly discuss issues such as homophobia, racism, sexism and so on. Where gay pride parades fall into this I am not sure, but I think they serve a purpose, even if that purpose is nothing more than stating "gay people are gay. Also, remember gays? They're still here".
Maybe no concensus will be reached, but as long as people are talking about it, there is a chance thay they will learn something new and grow to accept either the problem or a possible solution. It's a small step, but it's something.
@WhitelionArokh: That was quite an epic first post. I generally agree.
This is basically what I wanted to say.nobodysoldier25 post=7.72320.757724 said:
I have never announced for no reason that i'm attracted to men. Not in a game server or in real life. I don't feel the need to tell everyone, I dont even see it as a big part of my self or that it defines me or anything stupid like that. But if i'm asked, or if it comes up in conversation somehow then I will have no problem telling people. If I did feel the need to tell someone while on a game server (I can't think of any situation where I would though, but I dont even play online anyway) then I would hope its not met with abuse from people. I shouldn't feel like I have to hide it to avoid being called horrible names. The thought of "keep it to yourself or expect abuse" is hurtful.
Some people, actually most people, arent capable of apathy. Words can hurt and its unfair that we should have to put up with them just because the majority of people arent affected by it.
I've heard horror stories about Xbox Live and it makes me glad I dont enjoy online play. I would hate to have to be in an environment like that.
But you didn't, did you? You just said "LOL". Even on 4chan that's not dismantling.Texian post=9.72320.757657 said:
You see, you're using the same sort of tactics that they use. I stated that people will hate you for a reason. That reason doesn't HAVE to be relevant, but if you announce your differences (like in posting here just to register your outrage), then you're feeding the trolls.
If you're gay and upset, speak to a group that oppresses or a group that helps opressees. (sp?) Otherwise you are forming the idea of "horrible heteros" and "miserable breeders" by you first post.
I know and understand that people are upset by gay slurs, but standing up in front of reasonable people and proclaiming "I'm GAY AND PROUD!" brings the morons down on us as well.
Want to have a quick look around the forum on how "12 year old squeakers" are slurred?
Or have a chat with the numerous GBL members of the forum who are not only accepted but respected here?
My, or anyone elses, sexuality affects who I am, what I am etc. but it's something for me and my partner of choice. You are not just a GAYMER, but a gamer who happens to be gay, with all the bias/feelings/rants of every other member.
It's the label they attack, rather than the reality. And it doesn't even matter if the label fits.