Geek Girls Lambast Prejudice in Music Video

[Woodsey]

A games journalist having a gamepad taken out of her hands by the PR guy because she isn't playing the game the way they think she should.

Do you have a link to this example? I can imagine that being the case regardless of gender - at least how you've phrased. Jim (Sterlingus Maximus) did a Jimquisition (before he was on The Escapist) about developers' obsession with having journalists play 'the right way'.

Never come across this myself, directly.

I have come across large numbers of extremely self righteous people, usually male, who claim this is the case so they can the embark on crusades to underline just how wonderfully open minded they, usually by being pretty bigoted to anyone who doesn't think everything in the entire world is "-ism" based.

Tis odd.

http://www.notinthekitchenanymore.com/

http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

http://www.destructoid.com/another-study-shows-that-gaming-has-a-sexist-problem-245021.phtml

(It's also important to note that I think you're entirely full of crap, I just want to make it blindingly obvious so that you can't sit behind, "oh, well I've never seen it so it must not be there.")


OT: Honestly I find this kind of stuff cringe-worthy. People saying the equivalent of, "I'm a gamer," as if that's some sort of life-defining statement anyone gives a shit about. So, I get it. But tackling the issue by taking it to the same dumb standard of, "well I'll have you know I was playing with my transformers when I pushed through the vaginal canal," doesn't strike me as particularly conductive.

 

[Something Amyss]

Perhaps the issue is with you, then, and not them?

Do yourself a favor and read my full post. You'd likely learn something.

Yes, I learned that this defense is pointless, as it changes nothing about what I said or the underlying issue.

Honestly, does that "trick" ever work?

 

[WindKnight]

A games journalist having a gamepad taken out of her hands by the PR guy because she isn't playing the game the way they think she should.

Do you have a link to this example? I can imagine that being the case regardless of gender - at least how you've phrased. Jim (Sterlingus Maximus) did a Jimquisition (before he was on The Escapist) about developers' obsession with having journalists play 'the right way'.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/06/513794/ Admitedly, looks like my memory betrayed me a little in the details - (it was keyboard and mouse, not gamepad) but the basic idea was because she was a woman, she dodn;t know how to play shooters, even though she had adopted the standard WASD keyboard position.

and, well, the guy asking was banned, but here's the links for all the other cases I mentioned in my post, apart from the blog post about male comic fans doing their best to keep the grody woman away from the comics, as it escapes my google fu at the moment. -

http://raejohnston.com/2013/04/15/no-i-wont-spoil-the-ending-of-bioshock-infinite-for-you/

http://kotaku.com/fake-geek-girl-stickers-used-to-sexually-harass-women-697482309

http://www.themarysue.com/destructoid-writer-takes-aim-at-felicia-day-shoots-himself-in-the-foot/

OT: Honestly I find this kind of stuff cringe-worthy. People saying the equivalent of, "I'm a gamer," as if that's some sort of life-defining statement anyone gives a shit about. So, I get it. But tackling the issue by taking it to the same dumb standard of, "well I'll have you know I was playing with my transformers when I pushed through the vaginal canal," doesn't strike me as particularly conductive.

Their just saying their geeks like everybody, and they shouldn't need to pass some test to prove they are just because they do have a vagina. Thats the jist of the problem - whenever you hear a guy call out 'fake geek girls', their target is an actual geek who just happens to be a woman.

 

[Xisin]

Snip

No one goes to a tournament and asks to be down a round before you even start. It was a separate bracket, not whole tournament. It filtered into the men in the end anyways.

I'm not sure about the exploiting lonely men line, sarcasm can be hard to detect in writing when you are not familiar with a person. So just in case, when 50 shades came out a friend linked me to Gilbert Gottfried reading it on youtube. It was one of the funniest things I'd seen in a bit, so I went to see some of the other readings of 50 shades. My favorite was this guy who was reading it while doing an over exaggerated pg-13 reenactment of the scene. Donations went crazy, least seemed like it according to the comments. It was great fun.

"Cam-whores" or fakers are simply not a gender thing and I said as much the first time around. I mentioned this before on the site somewhere, I and three friends once went to see Troy in theaters because we heard Brad Pitts naked bum was on screen. I'm not a victim because I willingly gave money to see a beautiful man without his clothes on. The $150 hello man gave his money, seemingly happily, for a pretty face to say hello to him. I think he's stupid, and my husband thinks I'm an idiot for spending $10 on a bum. If a person is dating someone, no matter the gender, and is being strung along for their money then I'm sorry; that person is mean and should be dumped. But that is not the same as donating money or time to a stranger over the internet because you think they are pretty.

As for the distrusting of an entire group because of a few...I didn't think I had to argue that since it happens everywhere. There has been two examples I can think of off the top of my head in this thread. Crap one sec, here it is: http://www.hulu.com/watch/514294#i1,p12,d1

The above is Colbert Word clip on race. It's a human reaction. The challenge is to rise above the gut reaction and judge each person for their own actions.

As for the last part, and I don't mean this to be condescending(but it's in writing, so read it as you will), but the English language is rather explicit here. In the term "fake gamer girls," the noun is girls and the adjectives are fake and gamer. So if you say that you hate fake gamer girls, you hate girls that are both gamers and fake. If you say you hate fake gamers, the noun changes to gamers. Meaning you hate gamers that are fake. You said you hate liars and phony ass people. People being the noun and phony ass and liars being the adj. Yours is very inclusive, hating people that lie across the board. In the middle example, it's something about those lying gamers that drive a person nuts and the first, the lady gaming fakers cause a person to tear their hair out. The words mean something, otherwise a person wouldn't use them.

I dislike lying people, though I do think it's a problem people dwell on too much since we all do it. Thus why I said I cut "fakers" slack, though I think they should be thrown under the bus if they don't ever stop lying.

So in the end we agree, we both dislike liars and we don't think it should be a gender issue and we both apparently like the word ass, oh and video games of course. Why sweat the small stuff, when we agree on the over arcing principles?

 

[TheEvilGenius]

Huh... Okay. Skimming through this thread is giving me a headache. (I'm probably gonna keep doing it anyway because REASONS) Anyway, when I encounter a girl who isn't fully knowledgeable on whatever fandom I'm involved in (mostly anime/manga/games) my first reaction is never "OMG FAKER! BURN IN HELL YOU EVIL WENCH!" If anything it's more along the lines of "Oh... you poor, deprived soul. Come. I shall take you under my wing and show you the ways of the anime." I like meeting people with interests like mine. I also love corrupting the innocent newly indoctrinated minds by having them watch Elfen Lied.

I dunno. Maybe it's because I have a lot of female friends who are also nerds that I don't quite grasp the issue here. Or maybe it's because I'm more into anime and female otaku drooling over.. I dunno, Sebastian from Kuroshitsuji is a foregone conclusion. Or maybe I just don't give a fuck. Yeah, that sounds about right. I just don't give a fuck.

 

[Lunar Templar]

I will never understand why this is a thing at all.

So lemme see if a gotta bead on this, there are attractive women out there, pretending to be into something they are, to get your attention ... >.> doesn't that mean the 'geeks' have won when you get people faking interest to get attention, not seeing the problem here...

 

[Frokane]

I hate music videos where people hold up signs saying statements in an attempt to be 'cute' or 'genuine. I could give a crap wether they are geeks or not, 90% of geeks male or female piss me off anyway.

 

[grey_space]

No such thing as fake geeks...only real jerks. Nice comment in the vid there.

So geeks get ostracised and bullied due to being a marginalised subset of society and then turn around and pick onand marginalise others?

Shame on them.

Everyone would fail certain 'geek tests'.

This whole thing is very, very, sad.

 

[J.McMillen]

I will never understand why this is a thing at all.

So lemme see if a gotta bead on this, there are attractive women out there, pretending to be into something they are, to get your attention ... >.> doesn't that mean the 'geeks' have won when you get people faking interest to get attention, not seeing the problem here...

It seemed to start as an over-reaction to the booth babes at big conventions, women who were hired for their looks but knew nothing about games. It then spread to all geek culture, that unless a woman could "prove" she was a geek or gamer then she was nothing more than an attention seeking fraud. It got worse when small but vocal minorities in the geek/gaming community started trying to say that if you don't play certain games or like certain thing you aren't a gamer or a geek.

The thing is, gamers are people who play games. It doesn't matter what games, just that you play and enjoy them. I'm actually old enough to remember when "gamer" had nothing to do with video games. Being a gamer meant you played tabletop games like Dungeons & Dragons, Battletech, or Warhammer. And I still believe that definition is valid. Just because you don't play Halo or the latest modern shooter doesn't mean you aren't a gamer.

And being a geek means that there is something out there that you are passionate about. It doesn't really matter what it is*, just that you love it. Comic books, TV shows, movies, art, costumes, games, etc..., there are so many types of geeks out there. Even people who have hobbies like stamp or coin collection could be considered geeks in their respective hobby.

Now I won't say there isn't some small number of fake gamer/geeks who are using the culture for their own selfish ends. But they are a vastly small minority that the rest of us shouldn't really worry about. It's best just to assume that someone is who they say they are, the frauds will slip up and out themselves eventually.

Support Geekuality

*except Twilight

 

[Daria.Morgendorffer]

I've been a part of these discussions before, but I may as well jump in as part of the she-nerd contingent.

It's really hard to say who perpetuates more, but both sides are kind of guilty.

Guys: you have to lighten up and let us talk for a little while before you start mansplaining things, and you have to stop requiring that we have high-maintenance good looks before you pay any attention to us (really, looking good takes away from valuable coding and testing time; I have short hair for precisely that reason). If you suddenly feel the urge to quiz a girl on her interests, punch yourself in the balls. If she isn't as deep-in as you'd like, well, don't call her fake. She doesn't have the same amount of interest as you and that's okay. Sometimes, we do have other things to do and aren't as passionate as you are.

Girls: stop pandering and being cutesy. Give the impression that you want to give, not the one that will get the most heads turned. Cut it out with the fetish heels, corsets and pigtails (and yes, I have known those girls; I was a part-time goth in my college years). People will think you've heavily invested your time in looking good, and left little time for the actual geekery. And if a guy starts mansplaining to you, flatly state that you'd rather spend your time with people who aren't judging you. Don't rise to the challenge. Don't quiz him back. Just walk away from negative attention and don't get yanked into the fray. Show the guy you're above his little game. And for the love of everything holy, STOP REMINDING PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE BOOBS. It tells the guys that you're more focused on yourself (being a girl) than the thing he's interested in.

 

[svenjl]

Guys genders aren't brought up because it's automatically assumed that geeks are guys by default. But when a girl claims to be a geek, she's often attacked by the community, and has to jump through hoops to try and prove she's really a geek, which is ridiculous.

People aren't coming up with this topic out of thin air. Every day women are accosted and attacked online and off for being a part of a community full of boys club mentality misogynists.

You can try and ignore the issue and pretend it doesn't exist as you suggest, or you can report on talking points, and get people consciously making an effort to be decent human beings.

The goal shouldn't be to eliminate all notion of gender, that's unrealistic. We should simply aim to get people more accepting of differences in gender. As males, it looks like females are making a big deal out of something that shouldn't be a big deal in gaming. That's because males are by default accepted and left alone in the community. You're blinded by your own gender perspective. If you're a female, even if you try and hide your gender as best you can (which you really shouldn't have to), you're likely going to be called out on it and accused of being an attention whore or a fake geek. To put it simply, girls will stop making a big deal about there gender right after guys do. And that's just not going to happen unless more people become aware of the issue, and start talking about it.

You see it as an empty, cyclical conversation, I see it as working towards progress.

Great post. I haven't read all the posts, so I assume there are others who have similar views. Your second and third paragraphs are specially valid. There are too many defensive comments in this thread for my liking, and not enough acceptance of the reality that some girls and women are bullied and harassed both online and in person because they are female. It's awful.

 

[Vegosiux]

This must be a geographical thing. I mean, around here in Slovenia, girls most definitely only have one hoop to jump through if they want to assert geekdom - join a geeky conversation. The same hoop guys have to jump through too, truly...then again, the entire geekdom is a bit of a marginal subculture to begin with, most likely because most of us only care about our geek stuff, not about proclaiming to the world how we exist and are proud of and should be respected for what we are.

So yes, I'm starting to go into aversion here. Sometimes I wonder how my life would have been had the internet not been invented yet.

 

[thewatergamer]

Never really understood the whole "Fake Geek Girl Controversy"

This seems to be stemming from an insecurity that all geek and nerd guys have had to deal with, I guess some nerds and geeks feel "betrayed" because they had to put up with hate and criticism and stuff but now that games are popular suddenly they are getting all this attention and stuff...

IDK I can't speak for anyone other than myself but here is my general take on the whole business:

What most Geek Guys are against seems to be Girls that are hired by companies Just because they are attractive, not because they are actually into games, in theory I understand this, guys don't want to girls to pretend to like them just to get money, but this has caused a major problem, REAL Geek Gamer Girls are constantly ridiculed and called fakes...

Which frankly really disgusts me, All through geek and nerd history we have sworn to protect our own and attempt to cope with ridicule, but geek culture as a whole seems to have devolved into what it supposedly stood to stop, geek culture is increasingly hateful and intolerant,

Personally I agree with some intolerance, a.k.a. People that want geek culture to bend over backward and change just because they said so (Looking at you feminists)

However I really hate it when REAL gamer and geek girls who are into geek culture just as much as geek guys are ridiculed and called fake,

Personally I would love to meet more geek/gamer girls, especially if they are attractive, because then I actually have met a member of the opposite sex that has similar interests to me and I could actually have a relationship with,

Face it guys Geek Girls exist and I really hope they come out of hiding, because personally I would love to meet some, so I suggest we drop this whole "Fake Geek Girl Thing" and be more tolerant of real geek girls.

On the flipside though, I don't think that Geek Culture should need to evolve dramatically to appeal to non-geek girls,
I don't want to see Geek culture evolve and change to be more "Feminist-Friendly" Just because a bunch of annoying ladies said we have to.

However if I'm not mistaken REAL geek girls are not calling REAL Geek Guys a bunch of misogynistic pigs and that we are all evil and blah blah blah,

Last I checked Geek Girls are right their with geek guys and love almost everything geek just as much as geek guys do.

So yeah,Can we please draw a fine line between girls that hate gamers and men and expect us to change just because they said so and girls that are just as geeky as us guys?

If we do that we can all move on and be happy, heck we might not even be more accepted by popular culture, because members of both genders can be geeky...

 

[Uhura]

@thewatergamer
There are plenty of "REAL geek girls" on these forums who also identify as feminists.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I've been a part of these discussions before, but I may as well jump in as part of the she-nerd contingent.

It's really hard to say who perpetuates more, but both sides are kind of guilty.

Guys: you have to lighten up and let us talk for a little while before you start mansplaining things, and you have to stop requiring that we have high-maintenance good looks before you pay any attention to us (really, looking good takes away from valuable coding and testing time; I have short hair for precisely that reason). If you suddenly feel the urge to quiz a girl on her interests, punch yourself in the balls. If she isn't as deep-in as you'd like, well, don't call her fake. She doesn't have the same amount of interest as you and that's okay. Sometimes, we do have other things to do and aren't as passionate as you are.

Girls: stop pandering and being cutesy. Give the impression that you want to give, not the one that will get the most heads turned. Cut it out with the fetish heels, corsets and pigtails (and yes, I have known those girls; I was a part-time goth in my college years). People will think you've heavily invested your time in looking good, and left little time for the actual geekery. And if a guy starts mansplaining to you, flatly state that you'd rather spend your time with people who aren't judging you. Don't rise to the challenge. Don't quiz him back. Just walk away from negative attention and don't get yanked into the fray. Show the guy you're above his little game. And for the love of everything holy, STOP REMINDING PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE BOOBS. It tells the guys that you're more focused on yourself (being a girl) than the thing he's interested in.

I'm sorry I strongly disagree with what you are saying here. Blaming girls for being cutesy and wearing ponytails? That is not any different than the women trying to force other women to wear burkas. People should be who they are, and not be forced to change just because you find it irritating. You are telling people to spend time with people who aren't going to judge them, but then you are judging them by telling them what to wear, how to behave. If they like corsets, pigtails and heels that is their prerogative to do so. It isn't hurting anyone for them to like those things, so it is none of my damn business if they like those things.

Reminding people that you have boobs? Who the hell am I to tell them not to? Hell I sure as hell aren't going to tell them to tape them down like I did for gymnastics, It was incredibly painful and I would not wish that upon anyone. Women are beautiful sexual beings and should be proud of who they are and not you, me or anyone else should be shaming them into changing. That is just bullying plain and simple.

I have extremely long hair, and often wear pigtails myself because it gets caught in the car door when I wear it down. It hurts the back of my head to wear it in a single ponytail, and I cant even put my head back on the seat when I drive that way. Sometimes I try to bundle it all up on top my head, but since it is so fine and straight it falls out of that before I even reach where I am going. I sure as hell am not going to walk around with the traditional style for my culture or everyone will think I am trying to be princess leia. It is just easier to split it down the middle and pigtail it. It is no ones business but my own why I wear pigtails.


As for being cutesy, I think that is just how some people are. That is their personality. You are trying to change their personality. My friend Joy has a voice that sounds really child like. People think she is doing it on purpose, but the truth is, that is just how she talks and she hates it. I have heard guys say stuff to her, and it is awful. They think she is mocking them, or pretending or something and have been really quite cruel to her over something she has no control over. Sure she sounds really cutesy, but it isn't like she is trying to do it, or that she can change it.

Basically "live and let live" rather than try to bully them into conforming to " your standards" of what you find acceptable. If this is how they are, you can accept them or not, but to try and tell them to change, when they aren't the ones with the problem, It is you who have a problem with how you perceive them, is essentially trying to force them to change for you. I don't think anyone should change who they are just because someone else thinks they should.

 

[Traun]

I just find the concept of this hillarious.

It's a movie about how Geek Girls don't need approval set to a song that can't stop chanting "I have nothing to prove" to...prove to us that they aren't fake geek girls.

 

[WOPR]

You're right to a point.

That said, many women who are genuinely geeks tend to get caught up in the emergent assumption that women who profess a love of nerdy things must be faking it. There exists, for many, an unspoken litmus test that you have to pass to count as a nerd. Being a woman is, for some, seen as a disqualification. In essence, while some are truly (and stupidly) angered by the idea of a woman pretending to be a geek for attention, others act as though women being nerdy at all is something absurd

Reason behind this is so many flaunt the arch-type of "Typical Geek Girl" (Only play Zelda/Minecraft/Portal/Sims and only watch Dr Who and JJ Abrams Star Trek... and if they like Anime they only watch Naruto and Inuyasha) that it's become a very thin ice to tred while trying to find someone with more depth. Which somehow led to hostilities.

I mean when someone walks up to me and says "they're a geek too" I instantly am skeptical because that's not something you generally want to show off. I don't care if you're a girl geek or a guy geek, I care if you're a real geek or a "sheek geek".

I just wish that the actual geek girls could express themselves without judgement (would make them a lot easier to find) and that the fake ones would just knock off the act. But sadly this isn't a perfect world we live in

EDIT: I feel I should say that yes there is a chance a true geek girl can happen to enjoy the above, but there's a difference between truly enjoying something, and just watching/playing it to fit in someplace you don't belong.

 

[Jinxzy]

Even thought I like the video and the song. The person that held up the sign "I'll do anything for $5.00" had me laughing. I will never understand this current trend of trying to prove your a geek, "fake" girl geeks, "fake" girl gamers, gamer girls, and women in "men" territory.

I have always and always will be a geek, I don't care what other people say or do. I never let anyone getting me down because of what they say. I'm not trying to show off or rub it in peoples faces and wear gambit t-shirts to be cool. I just be myself and that the best thing. If people don't believe me oh well they're not worth my time. I just keep reading my books, barfing up rainbows and playing my games. People can judge me all they want they're just jealous that Gracie thinks I'm fabulous.

I care more about leveling up in my current game then someone being a jerk and saying I'm not real. Pfft, see if I help them get any loot.

 

[Aramis Night]

Fake Geek Girls exist.
Real Geek Girls also exist.
Both of these statements are facts.
Sometimes people confuse fake with real and vice versa. It happens with everything. Why would anyone act shocked and surprised that it happens with geek girls as well? How is this even a controversy? I've been asked to prove my credentials to some degree for every claim i have made of my own personal skills/knowledge. Either i offer proof or i don't. Either they believe me or they don't. I've never considered it worth rageing over one way or the other. As long as i know what i am, why would the judgements of others matter? Are we really so diminished by the judgements of people? Does the belief of another person in my lack of ability, suddenly strip me of the ability in question? No.

Other people's judgements should only be important to them, not to you. If the judgements of others are false, that is their problem, not yours. Move on.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I hate music videos where people hold up signs saying statements in an attempt to be 'cute' or 'genuine. I could give a crap wether they are geeks or not, 90% of geeks male or female piss me off anyway.

Ha, I agree.

I immediately thought "ah, god... it's one of these". You could probably have the most sensible and irrefutable of claims written on those cards and I'd still roll my eyes. Something about the format is just annoying as hell.

This must be a geographical thing.

I think this isolated sentence of your post is probably the most true thing in the thread.

I can't imagine anyone I know giving much of a damn about these labels.

Edit - Urgh... why was Matthew Lane banned? The bans are getting silly lately.

I don't agree with everything the guy says, but he was at least capable of throwing interesting ideas out... same goes for Father Time, really.