Gender challenge

[Relish in Chaos]

Yay, another gender topic.

Sorry, it's just something that I'd been thinking about after watching a couple of MovieBob's Game Overthinker videos. But I just want to issue two challenges to you, The Escapist gaming community.

1. Find an empowering female video game character that's somewhat pretty, yet not unrealistically and overpoweringly sexy, with no clichéd characterization or negative implications of femininity.

A good example I can think of, which I believe someone else brought up on another thread, is Makoto from Street Fighter III and Street Fighter IV. She's not ridiculously proportioned like Cammy, and wears a basic, agendered karate gi that isn't impractically fetishistic like Sakura's sexy schoolgirl outfit (seriously, that miniskirt flies up almost every time she makes a move. It's almost as if Capcom just want us to pit Sakura and Cammy against each other on CPU mode, then sit back and have a furious tug). And she's not a "sexy badass ice queen" like Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, or Ivy Valentine from Soul Calibur.

I mean, sure, she's a tomboy, which could be construed by the more fiercely outspoken feminists to mean that "even if you're a strong female, you need to act male to have power", but come on, this is a fighting game. Of course, many of its characters tend not to have that much personality, but it's personality nonetheless, amidst a sea of glorified strippers in fighting games that we're meant to believe can fight without getting snapped like a twig. Makoto actually looks like a competent fighter, and she's not butch to the point that she looks as if she's trying to prove something, like this (exaggerated for comedy, but the point sticks): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPDEy-iElmk

2. Find a sexualized male video game character that caters to both the male and female sexual fantasy.

Note, I'm not talking about male power fantasies, such as muscular brutes like Kratos from God of War and Marcus Fenix from Gears of War. I'm talking about guys that are appealing to both women and gay men (since, apparently, gay men have slightly/somewhat different notions of an attractive male, and it's more them that find super-masculine men with sexually predominant features attractive than women, who may focus more on confidence and features less connected to sexuality. Generalizations, ahoy! P.S. Please don't place too much focus on that stereotyping comment; I was half-joking and it's not really the point).

Anyway, I guess a good example would be Cody from Final Fight and Street Fighter. In Final Fight, he's a street fighter with a clean-cut appearance. In Street Fighter, he's a cocky, confident bad boy ex-con in a skin-tight prison uniform.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Sakura's skirt length is pretty much the actual length that the standard Japanese school uniform is. And she wears shorts underneath anyway (Nitpicky, I know). And you're going to have to explain why they have to be 'empowering'. What does that even mean? Are Marcus Fenix or Sam Gideon 'empowering'? Is an 'empowered' female character not the same as a 'power fantasy character' for women?

The second point doesn't make much sense either. Are there many female characters that cater to both men and lesbians? But just to name a name...Dante from Devil May Cry or Leon S. Kennedy from Resident Evil.

 

[RaginDrage]

I think Chell from the Portal series fits fairly well for the first category.
She doesn't speak though, but actions speak louder than words right?

Nothing about her appearance feels like it's pandering to the oversexualized crowd of characters shamelessly added to follow the Smurfette Principle and "give something the guys to look at". If anything, she looks fairly normal and sports a pretty descent wardrobe that at least covers %80 of her body.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Sakura's skirt length is pretty much the actual length that the standard Japanese school uniform is. And she wears shorts underneath anyway (Nitpicky, I know).

But a miniskirt still isn?t appropriate wear for combat, is it? It?s blatantly obvious that it?s just meant to be titillating. I understand that it sounds pretty dumb to talk about ?realism? in relation to a fighting game series where martial artists can throw fireballs and stuff, but even Cammy?s costume looks like it at least accommodates her body and fighting style. Fact of the matter is, there?s not any legitimate reason for why Sakura?s dressed the way she is in a fighting tournament.

And you're going to have to explain why they have to be 'empowering'. What does that even mean? Are Marcus Fenix or Sam Gideon 'empowering'? Is an 'empowered' female character not the same as a 'power fantasy character' for women?

I guess what I mean by ?empowering? is?well, the clue is in the word itself. Power. Independence. Confidence. Versatility. Yes, an empowering female character can be a female power fantasy too. But let?s focus on the challenge. Bayonetta?s arguably empowering, but she?s still unrealistically and overpoweringly sexy, and ?sex appeal? is the first thing that comes to mind when you think about her. Heck, it?s probably the main reason people went out to buy her game.

The second point doesn't make much sense either. Are there many female characters that cater to both men and lesbians? But just to name a name...Dante from Devil May Cry or Leon S. Kennedy from Resident Evil.

The reason I kind of skimped on that is because...well, I'm a male and I'm looking at it from a male perspective, I guess, but I just wanted to know what sexualized male characters there were that appealed to both women and gay men. Talking about sexualized female characters is boring, even if I were just to apply the same thing to lesbians, because there are already too many that it's not worth the discussion. There's already been countless ones. I just wanted to do something relatively new, for once.

I think Chell from the Portal series fits fairly well for the first category.
She doesn't speak though, but actions speak louder than words right?

Nothing about her appearance feels like it's pandering to the oversexualized crowd of characters shamelessly added to follow the Smurfette Principle and "give something the guys to look at". If anything, she looks fairly normal and sports a pretty descent wardrobe that at least covers %80 of her body.

The problem you'd have there is that, like Gordon Freeman, people would argue that she doesn't count because she's a "cipher". I.e. she doesn't have a character to bear analysis to. A silent protagonist for the player to project their own character and/or ideals onto.

Samus Aran, before Other M, was effectively the same, originating from the 8-bit and 16-bit era of silent, almost faceless tools in basic games that didn't rely on immersive narratives spliced with detailed cutscenes.

 

[SajuukKhar]

The problem you'd have there is that, like Gordon Freeman, people would argue that she doesn't count because she's a "cipher". I.e. she doesn't have a character to bear analysis to. A silent protagonist for the player to project their own character and/or ideals onto.

For someone who apparently doesn't have a character Chell has had one of the longest, and very intensely debated, question of parentage I have ever seen.

From canon information we know that Chell is abnormally stubborn, incredibly tenacious, has an above average IQ, was abandoned by her birth parents and adopted, and copes with attempts to break her will by ignoring them in an attempt to deny them the pleasure of a response.

while not as detailed as many other character, she certainly does have some characterization that is confirmed by the game.

 

[Aerosteam]

For the first challenge, I'll go with Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, that's all I can think of.

 

[Lucem712]

I like two prominent females characters from RDR, Bonnie McFarland and Marston's wife, Abigale.

As for the guy...hm, Leon Kennedy from RE? Mostly eye candy.[footnote]One can say Raiden (MGS) but I don't really find him all that attractive.[/footnote]

(I'm really bad at this game.)

 

[Aris Khandr]

Wait. Cammy is ridiculously proportioned?

Cammy White? Are you sure about this?

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

1. Gwendolyn from Odin Sphere

She is a Valkyrie and daughter of the Norse God Odin, and a strong warrior and combatant to boot. Though half of her story is based on her being a cliche woman trying to find her place in the world and later a damsel in distress, she breaks the mold by taking it upon herself to do what is right and taking matters into her own hand, many times saving those who belittled her and served as her protectors.

2. Zael from The Last Story

Not entirely sure why I chose him, but I think the cover art where Zael has his coat open and exposing his bare chest might have something to do with it. There's nothing particularly wrong with Zael, but I felt that he was unnecessarily sexual in the art for this game. In the actual game, he is never shown to have this look and he is actually well-mannered and timid compared to some of the other cast members.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

Since someone already mentioned Jade, I'd say April from The Longest Journey and Dreamfall. She's a confused teenage girl in the first, but in the second she's a rebel leader trying to free a nation from its oppressors. I can't think of a sexualized male, though.

I must say, though, on the subject of gay men liking overtly masculine features: As a BIsexual male that isn't true for me, I find personality and good looks in general to be faaaaaaar more appealing, I'd rather go as far as to say that hyper-masculine men are a turn-off. This may not be true for gay men, but it is for me. Kinda off-topic, but there you go

 

[CannibalCorpses]

Hmmm let me think...any game you choose your characters gender so Mass effect trilogy, Fallout full series except brotherhood of steel, Oblivion/Skyrim., Jagged alliance 2...thats all i can think of off the top of my head but i'm damn sure there are loads more

This whole gender debate is getting old, especially since there are loads of games where the main character can be male or female.

The whole gay man or female fantasy thing is just a ridiculous proposition. There are games where you can be a guy and date a guy but it's a side attraction with no relevance other than to give teenagers a cheap thrill. I can't think of a single game where shagging the same sex is anything other than a 30 second cutscene for the sake of it.

If you buy games for the snippet of sex then you are a fool and should invest in some pornography.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

Wait. Cammy is ridiculously proportioned?

Cammy White? Are you sure about this?

Muscles and tits, never seen that in real life without plastic surgeory

 

[King of Asgaard]

1. Yuna from FFX, and Jade from Beyond Good and Evil fit this category perfectly.
Can't think of an entry for 2, sorry.

 

[Olas]

I think Chell from the Portal series fits fairly well for the first category.
She doesn't speak though, but actions speak louder than words right?

Nothing about her appearance feels like it's pandering to the oversexualized crowd of characters shamelessly added to follow the Smurfette Principle and "give something the guys to look at". If anything, she looks fairly normal and sports a pretty descent wardrobe that at least covers %80 of her body.

Chell is a shell. She's just a blank slate like Gordon Freeman that we can choose to project any characterization that we choose onto. She doesn't talk and her actions are controlled by us, not herself. Her wardrobe is just an orange jumpsuit that she has to wear involuntarily as a test subject.

If I had to go with someone I'd choose Alyx Vance.

She's a strong female character who wears sensible clothes and has a rich complex personality which makes her extremely likable not just as a woman but as a person. She's clearly attractive but the Half-Life games never try to push any level of sex appeal onto her. Strong and independent, optimistic and intelligent She and Gordon Freeman have a strong but entirely platonic friendship. She seems like an obvious choice for #1.

As for #2. I have no idea what a woman/gay man would sexually fantasize about. If I'd have to guess I'd say this...

Spoiler

I'm a strait male, and even I can't help fantasizing about this beautiful 8 foot tall golden man.

 

[Batou667]

Best female character: I'd probably say Sam from Gears 3. She's not oversexualised, nor is she a simpering love interest like Anya, but nor is she depicted as obviously unattractive like crusty old Bernie. She's a strong addition to the gears cast, and has some good screen-time and a few funny and/or memorable lines.

I certainly wouldn't say Half Life's Alyx Vance, who generally pops up regular as clockwork in these kind of threads. I finally got around to sitting through the whole Orange Box a couple of weeks back, and she's every bit as much of a cliched plot hook as Princess Peach. She alternates between holding the player's hand, acting as a gatekeeper, flattering the player for their gameplay, and occasionally filling the damsel in distress role. She may be Thinking Man's Crumpet, but she's crumpet nonetheless. Perhaps this kind of female character was revolutionary back in 2004 (who am I kidding, of course she was), but things have moved on since then.

 

[Zantos]

For the first one I'd have to go with 2nd Lt. Mira from Space Marine. Took command of the Cadian regiment when all the above officers were killed, did a bloody good job, and kind of scary when you start picking up her servo recordings. I think she started swooning for Titus at one point, but he's a colossus of a knight in shining armour that saved her and her men, then the planet

Spoiler

by punching a daemon prince to death as they fell from a gigantic tower

we can allow for swooning to be kind of normal in those circumstances.

As for the second one, not really my area. John Marston maybe?

 

[Lunar Templar]

my vote goes to.....

cause the mess that's Other M a side, she's still the best example of a strong female character, yes there's the skin tight Zero Suit, but how often to we see that in actually game play?

 

[Something Amyss]

since, apparently, gay men have slightly/somewhat different notions of an attractive male, and it's more them that find super-masculine men with sexually predominant features attractive than women, who may focus more on confidence and features less connected to sexuality. Generalizations, ahoy! P.S. Please don't place too much focus on that stereotyping comment; I was half-joking and it's not really the point).

Not the point, but it's still bull. It's also kind of horrible to see this sort of stereotyping of men and women nestled IN a post about empowerment of women, even if it's "half-joking."

 

[Zhukov]

Uh... can you define "empowering" please. That word gets used in a lot of different ways when it comes to female characters. For example, can only protagonists be considered empowering?

1.

Jade (BG&E)
Faith (Mirror's Edge) - She's a rather shitty character, but I think she ticks the boxes.
April Ryan and Zoe Castillo (The Longest Journey and its sequel Dreamfall)

2.

Uhh... I got nothin'.

 

[Something Amyss]

my vote goes to.....

cause the mess that's Other M a side, she's still the best example of a strong female character, yes there's the skin tight Zero Suit, but how often to we see that in actually game play?

And let's face it, Samus was kicking ass well before the Zero Suit existed.