General Movies, Music, Web Show, and TV News Thread

BrawlMan

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Cicada 5 said:
Statham vs Uwais should be interesting to see at least.
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I find it funny that they completely dropped all of the "new gen" characters from Expendables 3. Knew they were full of shit on that end. Also, that all female Expendables movie ain't happening either. Jaa and Uwais are obviously standing in for Jet Li, but with their own respective styles brought to the table. Triple Threat is still the best Expendables movie ever made.
 
Hawki

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Gordon_4 said:
Well be fair, they did by all accounts a pretty good job with Mario. So long as someone from Nintendo is standing behind them all the time with Zelda, I see no reason this is a particularly bad idea.
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I can agree with caveats that the Mario movie is "good," but even if those caveats didn't exist, even if the Mario movie was the best thing ever, that doesn't really change much.

The Mario movie is true of every Illumination movie I've seen, that it's heavy on comedy, light on plot and character depth. That can certainly work for Mario, it can probably work for their other IPs, that isn't what I'd want for a LoZ movie. Yes, LoZ can certainly be light-hearted, but even at its most light-hearted, it still takes itself more seriously than Mario does. Or even that aside, I can't think of any Illumination films that would match the style that LoZ usually executes its stories in. I mean, this is a studio whose most popular characters (commercially at least) are little yellow mutants that never stop babling, while LoZ's protagonist is a person who barely talks at all.

So, no, I'm not filled with confidence. At best, I could see it being a good movie, if not a good LoZ movie. And while Twilight Sparkle demonstrated that I like the idea of a LoZ movie, I cannot, for the life of me, understand why anyone would choose Illumination unless you factor in Mario, and factoring in Mario doesn't really say much for LoZ. There's certainly Nintendo IPs that Illumination could fit in for, IPs like LoZ, Fire Emblem, and Metroid aren't among them.

(Well, maybe Fire Emblem these days...)
 
BrawlMan

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Hawki said:
I can agree with caveats that the Mario movie is "good," but even if those caveats didn't exist, even if the Mario movie was the best thing ever, that doesn't really change much.

The Mario movie is true of every Illumination movie I've seen, that it's heavy on comedy, light on plot and character depth. That can certainly work for Mario, it can probably work for their other IPs, that isn't what I'd want for a LoZ movie. Yes, LoZ can certainly be light-hearted, but even at its most light-hearted, it still takes itself more seriously than Mario does. Or even that aside, I can't think of any Illumination films that would match the style that LoZ usually executes its stories in. I mean, this is a studio whose most popular characters (commercially at least) are little yellow mutants that never stop babling, while LoZ's protagonist is a person who barely talks at all.

So, no, I'm not filled with confidence. At best, I could see it being a good movie, if not a good LoZ movie. And while Twilight Sparkle demonstrated that I like the idea of a LoZ movie, I cannot, for the life of me, understand why anyone would choose Illumination unless you factor in Mario, and factoring in Mario doesn't really say much for LoZ. There's certainly Nintendo IPs that Illumination could fit in for, IPs like LoZ, Fire Emblem, and Metroid aren't among them.

(Well, maybe Fire Emblem these days...)
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You panic too much at times. I get where you're coming from, but as long as Nintendo is the overseer, Illumination can't really fuck it up. They're not my first choice, and I would rather Studio Ghibli make a LoZ movie, or Laika.
 
Hawki

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BrawlMan said:
You panic too much at times. I get where you're coming from, but as long as Nintendo is the overseer, Illumination can't really fuck it up. They're not my first choice, and I would rather Studio Ghibli make a LoZ movie, or Laika.
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I'm not panicked. Lacklustre films based on games were the norm until recently, Illumination could produce an adaptation that's a load of cucco droppings and it wouldn't change much.

And yes, I'd certainly think Studio Ghibli would be a better fit. Can't comment on Laika too much, but from what I've seen (trailers), they seem to be a potential fit (e.g. Kubo).
 
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Hawki said:
I'm not panicked. Lacklustre films based on games were the norm until recently, Illumination could produce an adaptation that's a load of cucco droppings and it wouldn't change much.
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Getting way too cynical for you own good, if you're not panicked then. Whatever; wait and see is all that matters. No point in fretting over it, until we actually see something.

Hawki said:
Can't comment on Laika too much, but from what I've seen (trailers), they seem to be a potential fit (e.g. Kubo).
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Precisely.
 
Casual Shinji

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Gordon_4 said:
Well be fair, they did by all accounts a pretty good job with Mario. So long as someone from Nintendo is standing behind them all the time with Zelda, I see no reason this is a particularly bad idea.
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Define 'bad idea', I guess.

But expecting an Illumination movie to NOT be an Illumination movie is futile. Mario as a franchise fits Illumination well enough since it's overall pretty cut and dry. Zelda on the otherhand is very heavy on tone, similar to something like Metroid, or even Shadow of the Colossus. It might sometimes be a lighthearted tone like Wind Waker or Breath of the Wild, but there's always a particular air that runs through each game.

Illumination has so far shown zero skill at establishing tone in their movies. To be fair neither has Disney in most of their animated movies. Both of those studios are all about being as crowd pleasing as possible, and as such never have the most unique artistic identity. A studio like Cartoon Saloon for example has far more talent at tone and atmosphere, and would be a much better fit for a Zelda movie. But then it wouldn't be your typical candy-colored CGI crowd pleaser that would lure audiences into the theater.

But as with Mario, we already have the games, which will always be better than the movies, so there's no skin off my back.
 
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James Gunn did a pretty good interview on Lex Luthors show. Interesting couple tidbits let slip - 1.Lex Luthor is definitely gonna be in superman, Gunn had to dance around it. 2. He very explicitly, maybe didn't think first, but the first official DC movie is Blue Beetle, Flash.

 
Gordon_4

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Casual Shinji said:
Define 'bad idea', I guess.

But expecting an Illumination movie to NOT be an Illumination movie is futile. Mario as a franchise fits Illumination well enough since it's overall pretty cut and dry. Zelda on the otherhand is very heavy on tone, similar to something like Metroid, or even Shadow of the Colossus. It might sometimes be a lighthearted tone like Wind Waker or Breath of the Wild, but there's always a particular air that runs through each game.

Illumination has so far shown zero skill at establishing tone in their movies. To be fair neither has Disney in most of their animated movies. Both of those studios are all about being as crowd pleasing as possible, and as such never have the most unique artistic identity. A studio like Cartoon Saloon for example has far more talent at tone and atmosphere, and would be a much better fit for a Zelda movie. But then it wouldn't be your typical candy-colored CGI crowd pleaser that would lure audiences into the theater.

But as with Mario, we already have the games, which will always be better than the movies, so there's no skin off my back.
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Tone is achieved with script, music, dialogue and the composition of a shot. When a professional of in those fields enters Illumination’s premises they do not undergo some kind of temporary lobotomy that removes their ability to recognise that. As long as Nintendo provides a firm guiding hand, and isn’t afraid to let Illumination feel the back of it if they have to, I see no reason why a hypothetical Zelda film by that firm cannot be both an atmospheric and tonally consistent high fantasy epic that is also a bright and colourful and exciting crowd pleaser. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Gordon_4 said:
Tone is achieved with script, music, dialogue and the composition of a shot. When a professional of in those fields enters Illumination’s premises they do not undergo some kind of temporary lobotomy that removes their ability to recognise that. As long as Nintendo provides a firm guiding hand, and isn’t afraid to let Illumination feel the back of it if they have to, I see no reason why a hypothetical Zelda film by that firm cannot be both an atmospheric and tonally consistent high fantasy epic that is also a bright and colourful and exciting crowd pleaser. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
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Professionals have been working at Illumination since day 1 though. It's not about how good the people are who work there, it's about the people in charge having the final say. Illumination knows what their movies sell on, and unless we are going to see a sudden shift in their style I don't see their Zelda movie being any different from their usual output with the usual generic star-studded cast and licensed songs.

Western animation being seen as primarily for kids/families means it rarely, very rarely, has a particular tone or atmosphere to it. Heck, the MCU movies don't even, and they're live-action and seen as more adult. Kids media typically isn't viewed as deserving of any artictic expression by the higher-ups. It is possible, sure, but it's not something that comes along too often. And it's certainly not something Illumination has shown itself willing to lean into.
 
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Hawki

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Gordon_4 said:
Tone is achieved with script, music, dialogue and the composition of a shot. When a professional of in those fields enters Illumination’s premises they do not undergo some kind of temporary lobotomy that removes their ability to recognise that. As long as Nintendo provides a firm guiding hand, and isn’t afraid to let Illumination feel the back of it if they have to, I see no reason why a hypothetical Zelda film by that firm cannot be both an atmospheric and tonally consistent high fantasy epic that is also a bright and colourful and exciting crowd pleaser. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
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A lot of that's debatable.

Yes, in theory, any writer can write anything. In practice, different writers tend to specialize in different genres/fields. If I'm looking to comission an author, I wouldn't pick Tom Clancy to write a romance story, or Nicholas Sparks to write a thriller story, or Karen Traviss to write a children's story. Similarly in film, imagine Spielberg doing 2001: A Space Odyssey, or Kubrick doing Indiana Jones. That's not to say that creators shouldn't try new things (I'd argue it should be encouraged), but with creatives, there's usually a style or a "tell" that distinguishes them. And yes, that can extend to entire studios. And Illumination's "tell" is, to put it as generously as possible, "comedic, light-hearted, feel-good flicks." None of that translates into epic fantasy. However you feel about the Mario movie, it's a film that fits into Illumination's usual style (light or story and character, heavy on comedy and references). Legend of Zelda doesn't fit into that mould. Not even the most light-hearted LoZ games I've ever played (probably Spirit Tracks, and that isn't a slight, Spirit Tracks is underrated IMO) fit Illumination's style.

So yes, Illumination could make a different movie to the works they've produced up until now, Nintendo could make it a LoZ movie first and an Illumination movie second, Illumination could make a LoZ epic on par with the likes of Ocarina of Time or Twilight Princess, but if we're hedging our bets, precedent isn't in that outcome's favour. The fact of the matter is that the LoZ cartoon series is far closer to Illumination's modus operandi, not the LoZ games themselves. And since this is an adaptation and not an original work, well, there's certainly good movies that are terrible adaptations (e.g. Starship Troopers), but then, that's not the heart of this issue, is it?
 
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