GeoHot and Sony Settle PS3 Jailbreak Case

[MorphingDragon]

Damn. This is one case that I would have liked to see go to the end.

I know right?

 

[sunburst]

You might be pissed now, but how pissed would you be if GeoHotz lost and Sony made some precident over EULA's so that any company may do what Sony did. Frankly, that looked to be the most likely course if this went to court.

Pointless fear. Sony and every other company like them already uses EULAs to do as they please. Hotz losing the case would change nothing. Sony likely settled because they knew precedent from the case could either hurt them or have absolutely no effect. That's not the safest of bets.

I'm incredibly disappointed after reading the terms of the settlement. I guess GeoHot did what was best for him. It's just too bad it sucks for us.

 

[Captain Booyah]

That's...boring. You're boring, Escapist article.

Joke, joke, but seriously -- is this a victory or not? Disregarding the malicious spectator in me that wanted to see at least one side get screwed over, I guess it's positive that neither party were significantly harmed by the whole thing, but on the other hand, wasn't it in a previous article that Hotz trying to prove a point about the PS3 being HIS software and HE could do what he wanted with it, because he paid for it and it's his property, etc. etc.? Did he forget about that...?

So, ultimately, this case got nobody nowhere. All I can say is 1. It's been fun, and 2. I've never mentioned it before, but I've absolutely loved to no end the fact that the exact same picture of GeoHotz looking kinda stupid has been used in every Escapist article about him. Seriously, that isn't sarcasm. I've smiled every time.

 

[Zenn3k]

and I still won't purchase a PS3

 

[Vanbael]

Thank god this is done, I'm down to my last bucket of popcorn.
No opinion on either side, but I'm glad that this is done.

 

[Emergent]

Why are you thinking that I would give two shits what you, who don't know the difference between Law and Lawry's Seasoning Salt, think about a legal matter?

Just stop, man. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to prove anymore, but "I know the law" most certainly isn't what you're ABLE to prove (or even imply at this juncture), so it's probably best if you just quit now.

 

[Sikratua]

Everybody loses. Unfortunately not the way i wanted everyone to lose. I wanted sony to lose the lawsuit and treat us like we are human beings & we own the chunk of hardware we had. Sony is not crunching down on players because they hate consumer freedom, and Anon did no permanent damage to sony. Yeah geo will probably donate the money to charity or give it back, and Anon might cease the shelling of Sony, but we still do not own the console we purchase. Soon as we click accept we have apparently signed the console back over to them for free.

Know what this is? Sony expected to lose in a long and bloody battle of attrition; during which they would be bombarded with Anons, laughed at in court, and turned on by the people that give them money, and sign away the product they bought. It is a sign that the next time this happens we might own what we buy, and that bogus hidden contract(we can return console for store credit yes-sir) doesn't count to legally giving the console and rights to it back to sony.

I've been lurking in the forums for a while, trying to figure out where both sides stand on this particular issue. Personally, I've been on Sony's side since the beginning. I couldn't exactly place my finger on the issue I had with George Hotz, but I knew it was there. The main reason I quoted this post is because, after reading this post, I see the fallacy the "pro-geohot" side has been committing the entire time.

"I wanted sony to lose the lawsuit and treat us like we are human beings & we own the chunk of hardware we had." The key word in that sentence is the word "hardware." The fallacy, of course, being that this case had absolutely nothing to do with "hardware." If you want to strip the guts out of a PS3, and put those guts into a gutted X-Box 360 case, nobody will be upset with you. Why? Because that is modifying hardware. If you want to put those guts into a toaster, go ahead. It's your hardware.

Sony has never, at any point, claimed ownership of hardware. The only thing that Sony has said about altering hardware, to my knowledge, is that doing so voids your warranty on that particular piece of hardware.

Sony's issue, from minute one, has been solely about people altering software. Software is the key. And, if you look throught gaming history, people have maintained ownership of their proprietary software, from the beginning. Nintendo v. Tengen comes to mind, off the top of my head. By the way, thanks to this case, precident had already been set, and it was on Sony's side. The courts ruled that reverse engineering a root code, in order to circumvent said root code was a violation of the rights of the company that owned the root code in question. Granted, the lawsuit was settled out of court prior to the final litigation, but that precident is in the books.

If people want to remove the original OS from a Playstation 3, and use that as a cheap PC, there's no issue with that, since that doesn't alter the software in question. That certainly counts as modifying one's hardware. But, that's not what geohot did. He altered the operating system, and then published the information required to allow a number of people to do the same that, to be honest, can't truely be counted.

And, whether it was Hotz's intent or not, his hack does allow people who use it to pirate games. It circumvents the PS3's lockouts against pirated games, which, again, is the exact precident that was set in Nintendo v. Tengen. The law is on Sony's side.

I know. I know. "But, Sony's being dickish. Why are they being so mean?" In Sony's eyes, George Hotz stole Sony's debit card, and could make a trip to the ATM whenever he wanted. The fact that he hadn't, as of yet, made that trip is immaterial to the case. Let's take the debit card example to its real life, small scale comparison. If one of your friends brought a friend of his to your home, and that person stole your bank card from your wallet, would you pat him gently on the head, while says "I didn't like that. Don't do that anymore, okay?" There really is a reason the phrase "beat him like he stole something" exists.

But, what about the licensing of the software? Simply put, Sony has granted, to anyone who has possession of PS3 hardware the ability to use their software, for as long as the hardware is in that person's possession. Note that I used the word "ability," as opposed to the word "right." The use of the PS3 operating system is a service, provided free of charge, by Sony. However, regardless of what the Democratic Party would like you to believe, no-one has the "right" to a good or service from someone else.

 

[JDKJ]

Why are you thinking that I would give two shits what you, who don't know the difference between Law and Lawry's Seasoning Salt, think about a legal matter?

Just stop, man. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to prove anymore, but "I know the law" most certainly isn't what you're ABLE to prove (or even imply at this juncture), so it's probably best if you just quit now.

Thanks for the advice to "[j]ust stop, man" but, with all due respect, I'll have to ignore it. It comes way too close to sounding as if you're my parent for my tastes.

 

[Arehexes]

"For his part, Hotz seemed glad to have it all over with. "It was never my intention to cause any users trouble or to make piracy easier," said the hacking mastermind"

See this is my problem with Geohot was this line and his thinking.

1)If he didn't intend on piracy why did he give out the master key to bypass sony to make it easy

2)If he is a master mind he knows giving people freedom means some will abuse it.

1)He gave out the key so people could use their products as they should be able to, as they planned to use when they bought them, and as they were told they would be able to use them, until Sony changed their mind and made themselves liars.

2)Freedom is dangerous, no-one should be free.

????

Wow you just made my head hurt

Ok

1)Yes sony did take back otherOS(a feature that bragged about in press releases), but to be honest how many people that isn't a techie was going to use it? The only people I know who were pissed it was gone was me and my computer science buds, and I know people used it for a cheap super computer in clusters but that's big organizations. I was pissed really bad from when they removed it from the phats and didn't include it in the slims. But besides that it still functioned as advertised, and you could still use it as a decent media server (which is what I got mine for mostly). But they removed it in response to the Geohot thing when he was on the news about how he used OtherOS. And to top on that I have not heard news YET about a Custom Firmware that brought otherOS back(and one hacker that comes to mind pretty much said since you guys are asses I'm not sharing what I did). But I did hear some emulation stories but that was not intended by Sony now was it. And Sony does have a right to protect their crap if they so chose to, I wonder how many of you would be happy is someone cracked your code to all your goodies?

2)If freedom is bad that would mean Geohot giving out the keys to give freedom to homebrews is bad. With said keys a homebrew is free to do what ever and sony is screwed about it. Unless you screwing with me that is which it's hard to tell sarcasm online

 

[DaHero]

WHAT! *throws his popcorn to the ground*

Worst ending ever! I want my money back.

*hands over his spare soda* Eh, just wait for the sequel I guess.

 

[Emergent]

Thanks for the advice

You're welcome.

 

[JDKJ]

Thanks for the advice

You're welcome.

Just so you're fully aware, you shouldn't take away that part primarily. The more salient part is the "I'll have to ignore it" part.

 

[Jumplion]

Thank god for that. It would have been bad if either side had won.

Mmmmmmmmm, that's good post!

No matter who would "win" in the end, the consumer would have lost regardless.

I doubt GeoHotz would have won, specifically because he released Sony's security root key. He may (or may not) be able to legally mod his devices, but he had absolutely no right to release secured information that can easily be misused in the wrong hands.

I'm surprised (and a little disappointed ) that this hasn't gone on longer. Whoever went to the table first is irrelevant, the fact is that this battle has been fought, but the war is far from over.

War...war never changes...

 

[Macgyvercas]

So, does this mean we can stop following this? Cause this case was getting rather silly.

 

[WanderingFool]

So... The status quo remains unchanged then? Hmm, I guess its just as well...

 

[Ellen of Kitten]

Mr Funk, we're a little bias, are we?

For his part, Hotz seemed glad to have it all over with. "It was never my intention to cause any users trouble or to make piracy easier," [strong]said the hacking mastermind,[/strong] "I'm happy to have the litigation behind me."

 

[Gitty101]

And so the status quo has been restored, with nothing really happening...

What a boring outcome I was hoping for something a little more intersting, but I guess that this is the best outcome for both sides.

 

[Danpascooch]

Smart move, Georgie Boy. 'Cause you were most certainly on your way to getting about 12 inches of Sony penis up your rectum.

And if you don't immediately return the money that was donated your Legal Defense Fund, I just might class-action your ass for fraud, false pretenses, theft, and any other claims I might be able to cook up against you.

You do realize he has paid his lawyers up till now right? And he said he would donate whatever is left over when he accepted the donations.

As long as the money is used to pay his lawyers up till now, and the rest is donated like he claimed up front, there is no fraud. And he sure as hell shouldn't pay it ALL back, it's not like the lawyers worked for free up till now.

Honestly, this seems like somewhat of a victory for GeoHotz, think about it, the root key got out, and he didn't go to jail or owe Sony millions of dollars, sounds like a victory to me at least.

Wrong. If tell you I want your money because I'm going to use it to wage a legal battle that will benefit you also by setting a legal precedent when I prevail before the Court and then I bail out on my promised legal battle long before the point of ever prevailing, then, my friend, that is most certainly fraud and obtaining property under false pretenses.

When did he promise he wouldn't bail out when asking for donations? You're putting words in his mouth which doesn't fly in a court of law, here is his request for donations:

Media, I need your help. This is the first time I have ever asked. Please, if you support this cause, help me out and spread the word.
I want, by the time this goes to trial, to have Sony facing some of the hardest hitting lawyers in the business.
Together, we can help fix the system

Donations here are for legal defense ONLY
I checked with my lawyers before setting this up
If you have another substantial way to donate aside from money, let me know

tl;dr
Sony is lame, and is suing me for hacking MY OWN PS3. Help me own them in court

Sony are bullies
Sony doesn?t care if what you did was legal, if they don?t like it, they sue. Sony tried to sue a guy for getting his AIBO to do non Sony approved tricks, making it apparent that they don?t really care about piracy, they care about control. In (Sony v Bleem), Bleem was the winner on all counts, but the high cost of a legal defense shut them down. Fortunately, that suit helped set precedent on the legality of emulators. I would hate to lose this case due to resource starvation, and with the support of the masses, I won?t. Lets turn the bully back on itself. This case has the ability to set a huge precedent for consoles and all closed systems to come. The other two should be begging Sony to back off.

Sony sued the wrong guy
I am an advocate against mass piracy, do not distribute anyone?s copyrighted work but my own, do not take crap lying down, and am even pro DRM in a sense. For example, I believe Apple has every right to lock down their iPhone in the factory as much as they want, but once it?s paid for and mine, I have the right to unlock it, smash it, jailbreak it, look at it, and hack on it. Fortunately, the courts agree with me on this point.
My PS3 goal has been to provide users a legitimate path to homebrew, which by the standards of all previous cases (or, in reverse), is 100% legal. Sony does not even try to allege piracy or copyright infringement in this case, they allege I did things like play ?super mario world, an unauthorized game? on MY PS3. And access MY PS3 in an unauthorized way. Who are they to authorize what I do with my taxed and paid for property?
fail0verflow?s goal was even nobler than mine. They wanted to give you back a feature Sony illegally stole, Linux on your PS3. It?s shameful on Sony?s part that they are being sued at all. If you have a problem with pirates, sue them, don?t sue people who point out your shortcomings.

Why should I care about your personal legal troubles?
You shouldn?t. For example, if I was taken to court for sex crimes in Sweden, I would never ask for donations. But this case isn?t about me. Clearly I am not being sued because of something I have that Sony wants, I am being sued in order to send a message that Sony is not to be messed with. But if I(and all codefendants likewise) actually win this, we have the power to send a much stronger message back. That consumers have rights, and we aren?t afraid to stand up for them.

Why should I trust you? I just saw you trying to rap battle Sony
My attempts at humor aside, I do take this whole matter very seriously. Again, it?s not about me, I was on the verge of quitting this stuff last June, and I would hate to be the one who sets a reputation for hackers that all a company has to do is sue us and we back down. In fact, I want the opposite reputation set, that the more a company tries to abuse the legal system, the harder we rally back. I will be the first person in line on the launch date of the Xperia Play, and itching to get my hands on the Next GEOHOT Project.

Why did you wait until now to set this up?
I didn?t want to be trigger happy, and thought the suit might go away quickly. Also, I had to consult with my lawyers about how to do this. It?s been over a month, and it looks like this is going to be a drawn out case. I am in this for the long haul. I am very serious ethically when I take donations, for all iPhone work I only accepted after the fact, here after the fact is too late. Now I am pot committed so to say.

How much should I donate?
Put it this way, Sony has 5 lawyers, I have 2. I?d like to level the playing field, and really get some hard hitters in there. I have already racked up over 10k in legal bills; donate whatever you feel like. Leftover donations at the end of all this will be donated to the EFF.

What if I want to donate more than I feel comfortable sending through PayPal?
I?m excited! Email me, we?ll figure it out.

Why doesn?t the EFF fund this?
Ask them. They have offered to provide some legal help though, which is much appreciated.

Donate to help you, you?re the reason I can?t play Modern Warfare now?
No, I?m not. Kakaroto explains this really well here. I have never played PS3 online ever. Frankly I?m amazed by the apparent ease with which these cheats were created, security 101, why is the security in the client anyway? I had no idea this would happen, and am in full support of the cheaters being permabanned from PSN.

I?m a poor college student, what can I do to help?
I feel you, don?t worry. Spread the word. Let people know how you feel about what Sony is doing. Let Sony know how you feel about what Sony is doing.

What if SCEA tries to settle?
Lets just say, I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It?d be good PR for Sony too, lord knows they could use it. I?m also willing to accept a trade, a legit path to homebrew for knowledge of how to stop new firmwares from being decrypted.

Why isn?t SCEA trying to settle?
RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE?THEY POINTED OUT OUR SECURITY FLAWS?IM SO MADDDDDDDD?WAHHHHHH


Read more: http://www.ps3hax.net/2011/02/geohots-legal-defense-fund-geohot-needs-your-help-to-fight-sony/#ixzz1JFIsEaZr

First off, he didn't promise he wouldn't "bail out" (settle), not only that but he actually mentions what he would want out of a settlement (Showing that at the time of donation, people were aware settlement was a distinct possibility) The only two promises he made here that if violated could constitute embezzlement are:

1.) All funds will be used for legal defense only
2.) If funds are left over they will be donated to the Electronic Frontier foundation.

Those were the promises as it pertains to the donations, and so far there is no evidence to suggest he violated either of them. Whether you are pissed at him or not is irrelevant, there is absolutely no evidence of fraud

Smart move, Georgie Boy. 'Cause you were most certainly on your way to getting about 12 inches of Sony penis up your rectum.

And if you don't immediately return the money that was donated your Legal Defense Fund, I just might class-action your ass for fraud, false pretenses, theft, and any other claims I might be able to cook up against you.

You do realize he has paid his lawyers up till now right? And he said he would donate whatever is left over when he accepted the donations.

As long as the money is used to pay his lawyers up till now, and the rest is donated like he claimed up front, there is no fraud. And he sure as hell shouldn't pay it ALL back, it's not like the lawyers worked for free up till now.

Honestly, this seems like somewhat of a victory for GeoHotz, think about it, the root key got out, and he didn't go to jail or owe Sony millions of dollars, sounds like a victory to me at least.

Wrong. If tell you I want your money because I'm going to use it to wage a legal battle that will benefit you also by setting a legal precedent when I prevail before the Court and then I bail out on my promised legal battle long before the point of ever prevailing, then, my friend, that is most certainly fraud and obtaining property under false pretenses.

When did he promise he wouldn't bail out when asking for donations? You're putting words in his mouth which doesn't fly in a court of law, here is his request for donations:

Media, I need your help. This is the first time I have ever asked. Please, if you support this cause, help me out and spread the word.
I want, by the time this goes to trial, to have Sony facing some of the hardest hitting lawyers in the business.
Together, we can help fix the system

Donations here are for legal defense ONLY
I checked with my lawyers before setting this up
If you have another substantial way to donate aside from money, let me know

tl;dr
Sony is lame, and is suing me for hacking MY OWN PS3. Help me own them in court

Sony are bullies
Sony doesn?t care if what you did was legal, if they don?t like it, they sue. Sony tried to sue a guy for getting his AIBO to do non Sony approved tricks, making it apparent that they don?t really care about piracy, they care about control. In (Sony v Bleem), Bleem was the winner on all counts, but the high cost of a legal defense shut them down. Fortunately, that suit helped set precedent on the legality of emulators. I would hate to lose this case due to resource starvation, and with the support of the masses, I won?t. Lets turn the bully back on itself. This case has the ability to set a huge precedent for consoles and all closed systems to come. The other two should be begging Sony to back off.

Sony sued the wrong guy
I am an advocate against mass piracy, do not distribute anyone?s copyrighted work but my own, do not take crap lying down, and am even pro DRM in a sense. For example, I believe Apple has every right to lock down their iPhone in the factory as much as they want, but once it?s paid for and mine, I have the right to unlock it, smash it, jailbreak it, look at it, and hack on it. Fortunately, the courts agree with me on this point.
My PS3 goal has been to provide users a legitimate path to homebrew, which by the standards of all previous cases (or, in reverse), is 100% legal. Sony does not even try to allege piracy or copyright infringement in this case, they allege I did things like play ?super mario world, an unauthorized game? on MY PS3. And access MY PS3 in an unauthorized way. Who are they to authorize what I do with my taxed and paid for property?
fail0verflow?s goal was even nobler than mine. They wanted to give you back a feature Sony illegally stole, Linux on your PS3. It?s shameful on Sony?s part that they are being sued at all. If you have a problem with pirates, sue them, don?t sue people who point out your shortcomings.

Why should I care about your personal legal troubles?
You shouldn?t. For example, if I was taken to court for sex crimes in Sweden, I would never ask for donations. But this case isn?t about me. Clearly I am not being sued because of something I have that Sony wants, I am being sued in order to send a message that Sony is not to be messed with. But if I(and all codefendants likewise) actually win this, we have the power to send a much stronger message back. That consumers have rights, and we aren?t afraid to stand up for them.

Why should I trust you? I just saw you trying to rap battle Sony
My attempts at humor aside, I do take this whole matter very seriously. Again, it?s not about me, I was on the verge of quitting this stuff last June, and I would hate to be the one who sets a reputation for hackers that all a company has to do is sue us and we back down. In fact, I want the opposite reputation set, that the more a company tries to abuse the legal system, the harder we rally back. I will be the first person in line on the launch date of the Xperia Play, and itching to get my hands on the Next GEOHOT Project.

Why did you wait until now to set this up?
I didn?t want to be trigger happy, and thought the suit might go away quickly. Also, I had to consult with my lawyers about how to do this. It?s been over a month, and it looks like this is going to be a drawn out case. I am in this for the long haul. I am very serious ethically when I take donations, for all iPhone work I only accepted after the fact, here after the fact is too late. Now I am pot committed so to say.

How much should I donate?
Put it this way, Sony has 5 lawyers, I have 2. I?d like to level the playing field, and really get some hard hitters in there. I have already racked up over 10k in legal bills; donate whatever you feel like. Leftover donations at the end of all this will be donated to the EFF.

What if I want to donate more than I feel comfortable sending through PayPal?
I?m excited! Email me, we?ll figure it out.

Why doesn?t the EFF fund this?
Ask them. They have offered to provide some legal help though, which is much appreciated.

Donate to help you, you?re the reason I can?t play Modern Warfare now?
No, I?m not. Kakaroto explains this really well here. I have never played PS3 online ever. Frankly I?m amazed by the apparent ease with which these cheats were created, security 101, why is the security in the client anyway? I had no idea this would happen, and am in full support of the cheaters being permabanned from PSN.

I?m a poor college student, what can I do to help?
I feel you, don?t worry. Spread the word. Let people know how you feel about what Sony is doing. Let Sony know how you feel about what Sony is doing.

What if SCEA tries to settle?
Lets just say, I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It?d be good PR for Sony too, lord knows they could use it. I?m also willing to accept a trade, a legit path to homebrew for knowledge of how to stop new firmwares from being decrypted.

Why isn?t SCEA trying to settle?
RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE?THEY POINTED OUT OUR SECURITY FLAWS?IM SO MADDDDDDDD?WAHHHHHH


Read more: http://www.ps3hax.net/2011/02/geohots-legal-defense-fund-geohot-needs-your-help-to-fight-sony/#ixzz1JFIsEaZr

First off, he didn't promise he wouldn't "bail out" (settle), not only that but he actually mentions what he would want out of a settlement (Showing that at the time of donation, people were aware settlement was a distinct possibility) The only two promises he made here that if violated could constitute embezzlement are:

1.) All funds will be used for legal defense only
2.) If funds are left over they will be donated to the Electronic Frontier foundation.

Those were the promises as it pertains to the donations, and so far there is no evidence to suggest he violated either of them. Whether you are pissed at him or not is irrelevant, there is absolutely no evidence of fraud

Why are you thinking that I would give two shits what you, who don't know the difference between Law and Lawry's Seasoning Salt, think about a legal matter?

So you tell me I'm incorrect, and I cite and breakdown the evidence defending myself, and instead of explaining why you still thing I'm wrong you just insult me like a child?

Grow up.

And to answer your question, I thought you would give "two shits" because you quoted me a couple posts ago, if you don't care what I have to say, why respond to my initial quote? Or do you only stop caring when somebody shows evidence that you're incorrect?

 

[Danpascooch]

He doesn't have to give the money back, he said he'd donate the remains to some group... so hopefully he follows through with that.

Anyway, kind of shitty that it's over. I would have liked to find out what the legal system thinks of Sony more or less claiming ownership of all their sold PS3s.

No, what he said he was going to do was donate to the EFF any surplus left over after his successful defense of Sony claims against him. He not only failed to successfully defend those claims, he failed to even mount a real defense. He should return every cent he's collected and pay his attorneys out of his own pocket.

He never said successful, he actually clearly mentioned the possibility of a settlement, he never at any point promised his donors that he would win the case, or that he wouldn't settle.

See my earlier post with his original donation request that you conveniently ignored, if you want to engage in the delusion that he promised he'd win that's your business, but as a member of the Escapist I'm obligated to point out that it is in fact incorrect in the interest of keeping the people of this thread from being misinformed. I explained all of this in my earlier post, if you actually care about knowing the truth read that post that you so rudely ignored and then insulted me over, but if your interest really is just to lie to people and say he promised things he didn't, go right ahead, but don't expect me to not correct you.

 

[Danpascooch]

Why are you thinking that I would give two shits what you, who don't know the difference between Law and Lawry's Seasoning Salt, think about a legal matter?

Just stop, man. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to prove anymore, but "I know the law" most certainly isn't what you're ABLE to prove (or even imply at this juncture), so it's probably best if you just quit now.

Thank you, I appreciate it.