Ghost in the Shell Casting Shows We Need More Than White Feminism

[Karadalis]

Ethnic minorities are prevented from playing white characters,

Yeah... marvels calling... they aparantly dont have a problem with that.. Nick Fury? Human torch?

That said.. yes it is incredibly stupid to ignore the source material... anime most often is HEAVILY influenced by japanese worldview. To "americanize" such an anime for western audiences will only destroy what made the anime/manga great and apealing to people in the first place. Not only that but the whole story most likely will make absofuckinglutely no sense to anyone anymore. See the disaster that the now binned Akira project became.

And casting the wrong ethnecity for the wrong roles is allways a big issue.. and it doesnt matter what skin color or what gender. As soon as you disrespect the source material you might throw the entire thing into the trashcan.

 

[Darth_Payn]

I'm not looking forward to the movie, mostly because I don't think Hollywood can do the anime any true justice. What is worse though is that when they cast ScarJo, I knew these kind of opinion pieces were on the horizon. Not that I necessarily agree or disagree with them but because they always sound so whiny, "oppressed", and read like they belong on a tumblr blog, but with an editorial staff.

And thus you have answered my question, "WTF did I just read?!" In all this bitching about the problem, I didn't find anything that sounded like a workable solution.

 

[hentropy]

Am I the only one who would like to see more ethnic/Asian actors in movies for no other reason than it's more interesting than seeing the same three women in every female leading role? That would get tiring no matter what race the actresses were.

Akira and GitS were bound to be awful live-action adaptations from the start, in any case. I wouldn't want any promising Asian actors attached to them, as they're bound to be busts.

I simply cannot stand all the extraneous bullshit people want to force into these discussions. I like J-Law and ScarJo, they're talented, but I don't want to fucking see them in everything. If a movie is set in Japan, it should probably have Japanese actors. I don't know why it should be more complicated than that.

 

[Dango]

There are Asian actors who are repeatedly denied roles.

Now that's a poor choice of words right there. No one is being "denied" here, and saying so is well... incorrect.


The fact of the matter is Scarlett Johansson is a really popular action star right now, and if there was an Asian star that was at her levels of popularity they would be starring in this movie. That's ignoring the fact though that Johansson actually quite looks the part, probably more so than any Asian actress I can think of, and it's not hard to imagine her in the role.

Lastly, most of the backlash is going to be coming from the western world anyway, as I can guarantee you Japan is gonna eat this movie up, as they tend to do with all big name western action movies.

 

[Ruisu]

that said it would be nice if Ghost in the Shell was an international production...but US audiences don't generally go to see foreign language films afaik.

Not to get too "off topic" from your full comment, but this is one of the main reasons I hope international box office becomes more relevant than 'home' box office as time goes on. Maybe this can evolve into more support for movies that are interesting to other audiences other than US, or even produced outside of hollywood. (and I say that as someone who lives in brazil.)

 

[Rellik San]

Here's a question and it's one no one has answered:

Having already basically starred in a Live Action Anime (Pacific Rim) and invariably is booked for it's sequel; Being an Asian action star: Maybe Rinko Kikuchi was offered the role, but turned it down so she wouldn't be type cast in the future.

Also beyond this casting choice, do we really know anything about this movie yet?

Or are we going to all sit here and pretend that playing Racial Chess by picking and choosing which roles should be given to which actors is any more or less racist than this casting choice? Because so far I've not seen any evidence to suggest Kikuchi has even ever wanted this role and saying she should do it because she's Japanese and good at stunts is just really fucking racist to be blunt.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

Lastly, most of the backlash is going to be coming from the western world* anyway

*US
As with the backlash to anything with the words "female", "sexism", "misogyny", "racist", "black", "white" in the news/article/editorial

 

[Sleepy Sol]

I'm not looking forward to the movie, mostly because I don't think Hollywood can do the anime any true justice. What is worse though is that when they cast ScarJo, I knew these kind of opinion pieces were on the horizon. Not that I necessarily agree or disagree with them but because they always sound so whiny, "oppressed", and read like they belong on a tumblr blog, but with an editorial staff.

And thus you have answered my question, "WTF did I just read?!" In all this bitching about the problem, I didn't find anything that sounded like a workable solution.

That's my main problem with this article. What can we really do about this issue (if we do perceive it to be an issue) ourselves?

Though, honestly, I doubt many Japanese people actually feel 'oppressed' or somesuch by this casting.

It is rather disappointing that they didn't want to make the effort to find a Japanese actress, but it's not exactly particularly upsetting.

Also, that last paragraph is really weird. A bunch of subordinate clauses in a row - because, because, because. But that's just an error I noticed that isn't particularly important to the content of the article. Also a couple spelling errors.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Hey, Rush! RUSH! LOOK! Hollywood is at it again! This time it's not Idris taking a role, but Scarlett!

Rush? It's kind of quiet over there, bud. What's up?

can you name a Hollywood Asian actress you think would draw the same number of people (thus justifying the blockbuster budget this film will have) to the theaters by headlining such a film ?

i mean it took me a while even come up with Rinko Kikuchi...and she's never headlined such a movie and most people would be like "who ?".

seriously whatta ya got ? Lucy Liu ?

some things...are..."easy to say"...and not much else.

Grace Park [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Park_(actress)] is smoking to some. People like Lindsay Price [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsay_Price]. There's acceptable Asian Facsimile Kristin Kreuk [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristin_Kreuk]. My personal Man-boner would pierce whatever celestial bodies that were actually in the Heavens if it was Michelle Yeoh [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Yeoh]. That woman does something to me.

Anyway, is it more of a point that there aren't any big name Asian Actresses that has the chops to bring people in, or no one wants to be the first to try? Not wanting to cast Denzel in any more oversea films as the headliner because he doesn't sell there is one thing [http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/12/sony-email-hack-denzel-washington-black-leads-international-audience-racist/]. Yeah, I get that people are really choosy with their male leads.

But people are stupid and are into base things. One of the most common fetishes in the world of Porn is Asian. Asian women are the second most 'acceptable female race [https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=why+do+guys+love+asian+women]' in the world. If Hollywood wanted to, yeah, I think they'd have no problem if they got an asian woman hot enough and who kicked ass.

So, no, I don't think an American Movie company would fail with an Asian female lead if they marketed it right.

 

[Rect Pola]

When issues like this come up, it's rarely a "bad thing, done by bad people" issue. It's more of a "Not cool in a broad perspective" issue. Sure there's a ton of numbers on the trends, and yeah it sucks, but for all we know they approached casting her exclusively because she can make the role work (the butts-in-seats factor don't hurt either). BUT since she's white in a historically not-white role it's another tic of the "whiteness of hollywood" counter.

Yeah, the face of the issue sucks, especially in an property that made the point of being set in japan. I'd love to see more broad-minded casting, thinking long and hard if a character *has* to be a certain race. Fortunately, the more they mine american comics the sooner we'll know if things are going in that direction. America's comic history on the whole isn't exactly a racial smorgasbord.

 

[Rellik San]

Here's another question:

Other than character names, what is there about GitS and it's setting that is actually uniquely Japanese?

Because I'm seeing a lot of people bark about how GitS is such a Japanese show and it could only Japanese and I'm thinking to myself: "Have you people ever read William Gibson or Phillip K. Dick?"

 

[SNCommand]

It's a hollywood movie though, of course they're going to hire a big name hollywood actor, that means most likely white, and thanks to the Marvel movies no one is more sought after than Scarlett Johansson, there's nothing wrong with that choice

The movie is going to be an absolute mess though, you got the director of Snow White and the Huntsman working with Dreamworks of to make a live action rendition of Ghost in the Shell, everything about that team up smells disaster, this is going to be one movie I'm going to keep tabs on just for the massive trainwreck that's incoming

They're likely going to cut back on some of the more "raunchy" parts of the work they're adapting as well, don't expect anything like the scene where Major Kusanagi wears her skintight flesh colored suite and tries to pull off the lid on a tank, muscles bulging and all, don't expect any subtlety as well, the preceding parts of the fight with the tank would be completely different, hollywood would demand dubstep action music in the background instead of the choir, and more explosions and gun fire instead of using quiet moments to create tension and juxtaposition

This is going to be bad, Shyamalan's Last Airbender bad, I don't think we want one of Hollywoods few female asian actors to be dragged down by this disaster, instead people should simply enjoy the original adaptation more, fans of Avatar: The Last Airbender learned that long ago

 

[Baresark]

I see the both the validity and ridiculous nature of this article.

You should give lesser known actors who fit the ethnic identity of a character a chance. ScarJo isn't the best actress (not bad mind you, not bad at all, just not really all that great IMO). It just would make more sense to pick someone who at least is likely to have a Japanese name in real life (ie. Someone who is of Japanese decent or is Japanese).

Now that I got that out of the way:

Hollywood, for all it's progressive pushing, does not give a shit about the above. From a logical standpoint, what I said makes sense. But no-name actors do not draw to a movie. Like it or not, they are not making a movie for a niche audience. Hollywood will ALWAYS cast based on looks and general attraction of the audience. It's how they make money. Theatre is identical. They will cast a worse actor/actress in a role that looks right, than cast the better actor/actress. This is universal truth in anything that is extremely public facing.

Also, movies are made with a sense of rhetoric. That is, they are made for the audiences they are meant to appeal to in mind. If this movie was going to be a big deal in someplace like Japan, they might change their tune. But I don't imagine this is meant for anything of the sort. I think this is meant for American, European and maybe Australian audiences, which are predominantly white last I checked, so it's not such a big stretch to think that they will cast a white person for the role.

All of this said: I would rather see a Japanese actress in this role. Realistically, it should be a cast of mostly Japanese thespians. Not that I think the characters are, artistically, distinctly Japanese in the Manga or any of the accompanying Anime, it just makes sense to me for it be that way. But this seems to be a movie aimed at mostly American audiences, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that it's not.

Edit:

This is Hollywood to a T.

 

[hentropy]

Having already basically starred in a Live Action Anime (Pacific Rim) and invariably is booked for it's sequel; Being an Asian action star: Maybe Rinko Kikuchi was offered the role, but turned it down so she wouldn't be type cast in the future.

Also beyond this casting choice, do we really know anything about this movie yet?

It's possible that Kikuchi was offered the role and turned it down. It's also possible that they didn't audition a single Asian actress. It's pure speculation and pointless to bring up, unless there's evidence one way or another.

What we know about the film beyond ScarJo is that it's being directed by Rupert Sanders, his only prior directing credit being Snow White and the Huntsman... I'll let you judge for yourself on that one. It's being produced by Avi Arad and Steven Paul... Arad's biggest recent production is The Amazing Spider-Man series and various other... movies. Paul has only one other movie, a Tekken adaptation, in the works.

Here's another question:

Other than character names, what is there about GitS and it's setting that is actually uniquely Japanese?

It's set in Japan and all the main characters are Japanese special law enforcement agents. Most of the main cast is Japanese, as in they have Japanese personas.

Personally I don't like the idea that something can only be "uniquely Japanese" if it's set in old Kyoto with everyone wearing kimono and/or being samurai. GitS does have some focus outside of Japan, but it is still set there with most of the characters being Japanese. The story details and setting would have to be reworked to a significant degree in order to localize it.

It might be possible for it to be a good movie even with ScarJo and localization to NYC or whatever, but given the film's current leadership, the casting decision seems to have more to do with cynicism and money-grubbing than it does with Johansson really be the best fit for the part.

I don't personally think "they're only doing it for the money" gives someone a pass for doing something wrong. In fact, it makes it worse.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Whatever. Just whatever. Scarlett's a fine choice.

 

[hentropy]

I don't personally think "they're only doing it for the money" gives someone a pass for doing something wrong. In fact, it makes it worse.

as i said before it's a business...not a school play.

And? Does simply being a business mean that someone is immune from criticism when they do something stupid for greedy reasons? What you're saying is a non-sequitur. The people at Stormfront are private citizens and are allowed to express their views, and I'm also allowed to say that they are wrong.

Contrary to popular belief, it is possible to be a business who isn't constantly doing crappy things. It's also possible to be a business and negatively affect society for purely greedy reasons.

I don't think it's quite that bad in this case. Rupert Sanders being the director offends me more than Johansson being the Major. But take the case of the movie "21", a movie based on true events, where literally all of the people involved in real life were Asian and were whitewashed into white people for the movie with the two Asian characters being reduced to comic relief sidekicks. It was something done for purely monetary reasons, and it was wrong. Just like when companies pump carcinogens into the air because it saves them a buck or when GM neglects to fix an ignition problem because it might cost money. It's wrong, and "a business exists to make money" doesn't excuse the wrongness.

 

[The Choke]

Legit question, why not cast Sigourney in an Expendables movie? That sounds bad ass.

actually i thought that too while writing it but given its a Stallone controlled "testosterone fueled" franchise i doubt it would turn out well in the end.

Eh, maybe so. Maybe Stallone is just too scared to ask a girl taller than him to join in the movie

Ronda Rousey. She could roundhouse me any day. And oddly enough, she's in Expendables 3. She started as an actual fighter and not an actress, so I don't know if she counts...

On topic: I definitely do not like Ms. Johansson, and that's just on a personal level. I also have some mixed feelings about properties that are very nostalgic and meaningful to me getting the Hollywood treatment. I almost think the only way this could work would be a complete departure from the original material. But if you're doing that, why bother making a GitS movie in the first place?

Oh, what the hell. At least it's not Kristen Stewart.

 

[Kaiser0120]

Commonly, as well, you?ll find both black and white men in Britain. A black Bond makes sense, to a certain extent.

i'd never saw a black person in the flesh until i was 18.

and when i did they were two American basketball players bought in for the local team who bought up the local video shop as a business concern on the side...and btw everyone thought they were cool as fuck...which kinda actually freaked them out...

tell me how common "black" people are in the UK again ?...

oh ye. outside the South of England and Caribbean immigrants ("the windrush generation") their descendants and a few followers on...not very at all actually.

sry but perhaps the biggest joke about Demoman is black Scots basically don't exist...

plenty of ("former empire") "brown" tho.

and ofc plenty on the telly because guess where all that is based...the South of England.

there are probably more "black" people on Eastenders than in the entirety of the "shire" in which i live.

here, as in America, they are actually hugely over represented in the media compared with their actual demographic percentages.

the 2011 census place percentages of black people in the UK at 3.01% ("asians" are 6.92%...and that includes "asians" AND "asians" ;P)

just to throw that into perspective that means if you collected a perfectly balanced sample of 100 people only 3 of them would be black...

in the US the demographic percentage of black people is apparently 12.2% according to wikipedia.

Fair enough, I altered my post to reflect that. But still, nearly 2 million black folk in the UK. I still think a Black Bond isn't out of the question.

 

[Kennetic]

Almost makes me think if people would be mad if there was an American Ace Attorney movie, have a think.

You have no idea how bad I want an America Ace Attorney movie. Hell, a tv show or mini-series would be pretty awesome.

 

[VonBrewskie]

hear, hear! i'm tired of movies clearly meant for non-white characters getting whitewashed. blackface and yellowface is shunned, but hiring white actors to play non-white characters seems only one or two steps removed from that old, racist practice.