No she's not a ROBOT.Aggieknight said:
Kusanagi is orignially a japanese female human person that got a full prosthetic body replacement, which still holds her real brain. That makes her a cyborg, which is a totally different thing.
Ghost in the Shell Casting Shows We Need More Than White Feminism
- Thread starter roseofbattle
- Start date
Kusanagi is orignially a japanese female human person that got a full prosthetic body replacement, which still holds her real brain. That makes her a cyborg, which is a totally different thing.
The one thing Hollywood shouldn't get their hands on is anime or anime movies..STAY AWAY PLEASE. It's the last bastion of enjoyment of mine that you haven't ruined yet.
I really hope this movie doesn't see the light of day...americanize it is one thing (and it's insulting to the series itself) but adding a white actress in it as well? That is going way too far. Stop please!
I really hope this movie doesn't see the light of day...americanize it is one thing (and it's insulting to the series itself) but adding a white actress in it as well? That is going way too far. Stop please!
It's a story about people who have undergone extensive cybernetic enhancement and are permanently connected to the internet, how they cope with this, how such expensive augmetics is possible (government loaned bodies), and the sense of self that can be lost we no longer resemble ourselves... ...That happens to be set in Japan. We've seen this story a thousand times from western Sci-Fi authors many decades before Shirow was on the scene, it's a basic Cyberpunk story told with great visual flair, but your kidding yourself if you think because it's set in Japan that makes it uniquely Japanese.hentropy said:
I'm also not saying we have to see Okinawa Samurai fighting against the Shogun for it to be uniquely Japanese, but elements of Japanese culture, their sense of self, their office politics, their social standards... these things are not present in either the original texts of the 1995 Movie. They are present in Stand Alone Complex, but mostly as window dressing to the cases.
So with that in mind, I ask you again, other than names and it happening to be set in Japan, what would actually need to be significantly reworked for this adaptation?
I call BS! You can't be saying black Heimdal is no big deal/actively good (agreed) and then get pissed of at a white Motoko. "But why a white woman?" is the exact kind of crapola racists were spouting about Heimdal, 'boohoo whys he got to be black' - the director gets to cast who he thinks is best for the role. Grrr, at this rate a year from now the escapist is going to be just as clickbaity as buzzfeed.
And the writer is completely ignoring the fact that hiring Scarlett is basically advertising, so it doesn't matter that there are equally good asian actresses. Unless you're trying to say there's an equally famous asian woman actor who will draw in just as many people in american theaters?
And the writer is completely ignoring the fact that hiring Scarlett is basically advertising, so it doesn't matter that there are equally good asian actresses. Unless you're trying to say there's an equally famous asian woman actor who will draw in just as many people in american theaters?
Does it have to *not* be her? No.roseofbattle said:
Is there anything wrong with it being her? No.
I'm with Abomination here. This isn't what racism is. At all. Whatsoever.
If we consider this racism, then we're doing something very wrong.
Idris Elba played Heimdall (to many complaints admittedly, but he rocked the role) he may even be the next James Bond (again, to much chargin') - I don't see him having the suave myself but I'll watch the guy in anything so count my bum on a seat. (yes, yes, it's one example - and by no means am I trying to belittle the point, it shouldn't be, but also, that statement wasn't entirely true).
I've seen a lot of comments about Scarlet being cast in the GitS but not which character, we've all assumed she's the Major and complained about it as far as I can see.
I'm actually hoping she's the bad guy, I reckon she'd rock playing the antagonist, especially after all the good guy roles she's been getting.
Quite so, went ahead and edited that.Abomination said:I think you mean to say you agree with me here, not roseofbattle
Something in the neighborhood of what the ratios are in the population at large.Jake Martinez said:
By looking at census data(for the population at large), and tracking similar data in films.Jake Martinez said:
Society at large. This is a social issue, and so should be handled socially. Organizations focused on particular demographic groups should be tracking representation of their group, and mentioning it publicly when things seem out of whack.Jake Martinez said:
Social pressure. Mostly just asking representatives of those studios which have screwy representation "what's up with that?" every time you talk to them, and occasionally saying "good job" to those with good representation.Jake Martinez said:
Hiring practices. If things are massively out of whack, it's reasonable to assume there's some unconscious bias in the hiring process. Deliberately engage in preferential hiring to counter that unconscious bias until you're in the right neighborhood.Jake Martinez said:
Then you ask yourself why you want that character to be that race/gender. If there is some significant story/characterization reason, then you go ahead regardless. Otherwise, you change it.Jake Martinez said:
Eh it sucks but in this instance I don't really care that much. I'm far far more worried about this movie not being shit when their is a 99% certainty no matter who was cast as who it would suck. And I think johansen could do a fine job as Motoko. The name thing can always be explained away as "one of my parents was japanese" or "I grew up in japan" etc.
On a related note ghost in the shell is one of the most americanized sci-fi anime things to ever exist. Most of the core characters don't even look japanese, heck the lead male (batou) is one of the most american-looking anime characters to ever exist. I can think of several white male actors who could play him very well.
Not to mention the english dub of the movies and series is phenominal and I've always preferred the english vo cast, especially since characters like batou have been played by the same guy since the original.
Gits is basically a japanese interpretation of american police drama, but with cyborgs and such. I could see it easily being translated to a more "western" version very well but it would still require a talented writer and director regardless. I feel this is one example where "white washing" isn't really as terrible as it would be under many other circumstances. With Avatar it was absurd, with this much less so.
On a related note ghost in the shell is one of the most americanized sci-fi anime things to ever exist. Most of the core characters don't even look japanese, heck the lead male (batou) is one of the most american-looking anime characters to ever exist. I can think of several white male actors who could play him very well.
Not to mention the english dub of the movies and series is phenominal and I've always preferred the english vo cast, especially since characters like batou have been played by the same guy since the original.
Gits is basically a japanese interpretation of american police drama, but with cyborgs and such. I could see it easily being translated to a more "western" version very well but it would still require a talented writer and director regardless. I feel this is one example where "white washing" isn't really as terrible as it would be under many other circumstances. With Avatar it was absurd, with this much less so.
Wait, wait, wait, Travis?
I thought that American Akira cartoon trailer on youtube was just a random parody.
And on topic, considering the current trend of movie making, it'll just be another Robocop reboot that people will have forgotten in a week. It's unfortunate, but that's capitalism for you. Gotta fullfill the quota!
I thought that American Akira cartoon trailer on youtube was just a random parody.
And on topic, considering the current trend of movie making, it'll just be another Robocop reboot that people will have forgotten in a week. It's unfortunate, but that's capitalism for you. Gotta fullfill the quota!
This is kinda the point ghat most who are screaming raceism are missing. She shed her human shell long ago for a full prothsetic (robotic) body. One of the themes the show takles is the precieved loss of self after enough prothstetic peices have been added. Matoko has resided in several different bodies, hell, she could be played by a man and it would still fitAggieknight said:
Scarlett Johansson is a fine actress, and one that could pull off this role very well, no doubt about that. Would it have been a better choice to go for an Asian actress? Probably, but how many people will go rushing to the cinema to watch a film that stars some unknown actress that was in Pacific Rim that one time, as opposed to ScarJo who is very well known for her action movies?
You can probably expect a very westernised interpretation of Ghost in the Shell, and that could be fine. What is the worst thing that could happen? We get a shitty film. Great. Will the anime franchise get hurt in any way? Probably not. It will probably get chalked in with the rest of the shitty anime films that exist, and everybody will move on with their lives. All I can say is that at least it is a very capable actress in the lead role, and I am more than willing to give it a chance, but if you are a hardcore Ghost in the Shell fan that will criticise each and every thing that differs from the anime, this film is probably not for you anyway.
You can probably expect a very westernised interpretation of Ghost in the Shell, and that could be fine. What is the worst thing that could happen? We get a shitty film. Great. Will the anime franchise get hurt in any way? Probably not. It will probably get chalked in with the rest of the shitty anime films that exist, and everybody will move on with their lives. All I can say is that at least it is a very capable actress in the lead role, and I am more than willing to give it a chance, but if you are a hardcore Ghost in the Shell fan that will criticise each and every thing that differs from the anime, this film is probably not for you anyway.
I actually quite liked the western take on Edge of Tomorrow. It wasn't exactly a flop so it's good to remember the west can make "anime/manga" movies that stay relatively true to the source material.Laggyteabag said:
1.Yes, Major is full cyborg (organic brain+synthetic body) with mass produced body
2.Yes, she can look like anyone, but she has distinct look to her
3.No, Scarlet doesn't look like Major, since Major had distinct Japanese/Asian feel to her look
4.If anyone Batou always had non-asian feel to him (at least from my POV)
5.Really? This crap again? And this time they are messing with my favorite anime? FUUUUUUUUU...
6.Awesome if they hire lookalikes to play few random background people (to show that there are people with similar look like Motoko)
7.Bonus points if they never make big deal out of Nr.6
2.Yes, she can look like anyone, but she has distinct look to her
3.No, Scarlet doesn't look like Major, since Major had distinct Japanese/Asian feel to her look
4.If anyone Batou always had non-asian feel to him (at least from my POV)
5.Really? This crap again? And this time they are messing with my favorite anime? FUUUUUUUUU...
6.Awesome if they hire lookalikes to play few random background people (to show that there are people with similar look like Motoko)
7.Bonus points if they never make big deal out of Nr.6
"Ethnic minorities are prevented from playing white characters, yet white characters are given free reign to play minorities."
Ok, is this article seriously trolling?
-Idris Elba as Heimdall
-Will Smith as James West (he was white in the original TV show)
-Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury (yes I know there's the "Ultimate Marvel" version of Fury as well, but the original, white Nick Fury had been around decades longer).
-Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm (Fantastic Four reboot)
-Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin (Daredevil)
-Denzel Washington (The Manchurian Candidate)
-Morgan Freeman (Shawshank Redemption. In the book, his character was white).
-Lucy Lui in Charlie's Angels
There are more but I think that's enough. And guess what? You hear WAAAAYYYYY more cries of outrage when they cast a white actor to play a black/Hispanic/Asian person than vice versa.
I'm not saying I approve of it in any direction, but to pretend that ethnic minorities are "prevented" from playing white characters is just ridiculous.
Oh and Carly, it's 'given free rein', not 'given free reign'.
Ok, is this article seriously trolling?
-Idris Elba as Heimdall
-Will Smith as James West (he was white in the original TV show)
-Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury (yes I know there's the "Ultimate Marvel" version of Fury as well, but the original, white Nick Fury had been around decades longer).
-Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm (Fantastic Four reboot)
-Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin (Daredevil)
-Denzel Washington (The Manchurian Candidate)
-Morgan Freeman (Shawshank Redemption. In the book, his character was white).
-Lucy Lui in Charlie's Angels
There are more but I think that's enough. And guess what? You hear WAAAAYYYYY more cries of outrage when they cast a white actor to play a black/Hispanic/Asian person than vice versa.
I'm not saying I approve of it in any direction, but to pretend that ethnic minorities are "prevented" from playing white characters is just ridiculous.
Oh and Carly, it's 'given free rein', not 'given free reign'.
There are people who call themselves feminists that do have that kind of mentality. They are a minority and not actually feminists. Feminism is about equality in social standing and opportunity. No need to throw the movement out with the bathwater.Zato-1 said:
OT - I offer for consideration the following random collection of thoughts:
It seems there are no few people willing to uphold a racist double standard when it comes to the supposed ethical obligations Hollywood has when making casting decisions. I find it irksome that so many people who claim to be against racism would support racist (by definition) ideology. I will always argue that one does not serve the cause of equality by fighting for racist double standards.
People do not have a right to representation in creative works. Those works, whether created by a single artist or art-by-committee, are the vision of their creators.
People do have a right to criticize creative works for not including representations they think are appropriate. Coupled with my last point, it is fair for someone to say that they think the role of Makoto would be better suited to an Asian actress. It would not be fair to say that those making the movie are or should be ethically obligated to cast an Asian actress in the role.
People are and should be free to put social pressure on artists to get them to conform to what those people view as "correct" representation. Artists are and should be free to criticize and/or ignore the crap out of those people.
Those who would (myself included) like to see more minorities represented in various roles in media need to be less picky about how those roles are represented. One of the biggest damned deterrents to portraying any minority character is the inevitable backlash you're going to get from people who decide they don't like the representation. One need look no further than Disney's "The Princess and the Frog" and the kerfuffle over just the lead characters name to see what I mean. If every time an artist includes a minority character in their work, they promptly get the pointy end of the social justice movement, they are going to be a heck of a lot less likely to include minority characters in future works.
There is simply no pleasing everyone. If we assert that including minority characters is an ethical obligation and claim that how those characters are portrayed is also carries an ethical obligation, then there is no possible way for a content creator to meet those ethical obligations. If they do not include minority characters, they are certain to offend. If they do include minority characters, they are certain to offend. This problem is not one that can be resolved so long as people are intent on being offended.