Ghost in the Shell Casting Shows We Need More Than White Feminism

[Vorpal_Smilodon]

I call BS! You can't be saying black Heimdal is no big deal/actively good (agreed) and then get pissed of at a white Motoko. "But why a white woman?" is the exact kind of crapola racists were spouting about Heimdal, 'boohoo whys he got to be black' - the director gets to cast who he thinks is best for the role. Grrr, at this rate a year from now the escapist is going to be just as clickbaity as buzzfeed.

And the writer is completely ignoring the fact that hiring Scarlett is basically advertising, so it doesn't matter that there are equally good asian actresses. Unless you're trying to say there's an equally famous asian woman actor who will draw in just as many people in american theaters?

 

[PH3NOmenon]

The selected Scarlett Johansson because she's hot as hell, fits the figure, puts bums on seats, and let's not get into how so many anime characters look "white" anyway.

This isn't a racist issue in the slightest and it isn't even a feminism issue. Motoko Kusanagi has always been a woman, this role would be filled by a woman in any scenario.

What kind of bullshit clickbait topic is this anyway?

RACISM!

FEMINISM!

COLLECT VIEWS!

PROFIT!

Instead of jumping to "clickbait," maybe read the article and see that Hollywood has always placed its star power on male actors and now white female actors. There are Asian actors who are repeatedly denied roles. Yes, Johansson could conceivably do this role well. Does it have to be her? No.

Does it have to *not* be her? No.
Is there anything wrong with it being her? No.


I'm with Abomination here. This isn't what racism is. At all. Whatsoever.

If we consider this racism, then we're doing something very wrong.

 

[Sampler]

Ethnic minorities are prevented from playing white characters

Idris Elba played Heimdall (to many complaints admittedly, but he rocked the role) he may even be the next James Bond (again, to much chargin') - I don't see him having the suave myself but I'll watch the guy in anything so count my bum on a seat. (yes, yes, it's one example - and by no means am I trying to belittle the point, it shouldn't be, but also, that statement wasn't entirely true).

I've seen a lot of comments about Scarlet being cast in the GitS but not which character, we've all assumed she's the Major and complained about it as far as I can see.

I'm actually hoping she's the bad guy, I reckon she'd rock playing the antagonist, especially after all the good guy roles she's been getting.

 

[Abomination]

The selected Scarlett Johansson because she's hot as hell, fits the figure, puts bums on seats, and let's not get into how so many anime characters look "white" anyway.

This isn't a racist issue in the slightest and it isn't even a feminism issue. Motoko Kusanagi has always been a woman, this role would be filled by a woman in any scenario.

What kind of bullshit clickbait topic is this anyway?

RACISM!

FEMINISM!

COLLECT VIEWS!

PROFIT!

Instead of jumping to "clickbait," maybe read the article and see that Hollywood has always placed its star power on male actors and now white female actors. There are Asian actors who are repeatedly denied roles. Yes, Johansson could conceivably do this role well. Does it have to be her? No.

Does it have to *not* be her? No.
Is there anything wrong with it being her? No.


I'm with roseofbattle here. This isn't what racism is. At all. Whatsoever.

If we consider this racism, then we're doing something very wrong.

I think you mean to say you agree with me here, not roseofbattle

 

[PH3NOmenon]

I think you mean to say you agree with me here, not roseofbattle

Quite so, went ahead and edited that.

 

[theNater]

"What ratios of representation should we have in films?"

Something in the neighborhood of what the ratios are in the population at large.

"How should we decide or deduce what these ratios are?"

By looking at census data(for the population at large), and tracking similar data in films.

"Who should be the people to be in charge of deciding this?"

Society at large. This is a social issue, and so should be handled socially. Organizations focused on particular demographic groups should be tracking representation of their group, and mentioning it publicly when things seem out of whack.

"How do you enforce some system like this?"

Social pressure. Mostly just asking representatives of those studios which have screwy representation "what's up with that?" every time you talk to them, and occasionally saying "good job" to those with good representation.

"Does this change over time? How do we change this?"

Hiring practices. If things are massively out of whack, it's reasonable to assume there's some unconscious bias in the hiring process. Deliberately engage in preferential hiring to counter that unconscious bias until you're in the right neighborhood.

"What happens if you just really want to make a character that is of a race/gender that is already over represented?"

Then you ask yourself why you want that character to be that race/gender. If there is some significant story/characterization reason, then you go ahead regardless. Otherwise, you change it.

 

[LazyAza]

Eh it sucks but in this instance I don't really care that much. I'm far far more worried about this movie not being shit when their is a 99% certainty no matter who was cast as who it would suck. And I think johansen could do a fine job as Motoko. The name thing can always be explained away as "one of my parents was japanese" or "I grew up in japan" etc.

On a related note ghost in the shell is one of the most americanized sci-fi anime things to ever exist. Most of the core characters don't even look japanese, heck the lead male (batou) is one of the most american-looking anime characters to ever exist. I can think of several white male actors who could play him very well.

Not to mention the english dub of the movies and series is phenominal and I've always preferred the english vo cast, especially since characters like batou have been played by the same guy since the original.

Gits is basically a japanese interpretation of american police drama, but with cyborgs and such. I could see it easily being translated to a more "western" version very well but it would still require a talented writer and director regardless. I feel this is one example where "white washing" isn't really as terrible as it would be under many other circumstances. With Avatar it was absurd, with this much less so.

 

[Abomination]

"What ratios of representation should we have in films?"

Something in the neighborhood of what the ratios are in the population at large.
In the context of the setting of the media.

"How should we decide or deduce what these ratios are?"

By looking at census data(for the population at large), and tracking similar data in films.
In the context of the setting of the media.

"Who should be the people to be in charge of deciding this?"

Society at large. This is a social issue, and so should be handled socially. Organizations focused on particular demographic groups should be tracking representation of their group, and mentioning it publicly when things seem out of whack.
Socially run companies are known as the government. Do you really want the government to run entertainment?

"How do you enforce some system like this?"

Social pressure. Mostly just asking representatives of those studios which have screwy representation "what's up with that?" every time you talk to them, and occasionally saying "good job" to those with good representation.
I prefer to buy media I like, not media I find meets someone else's social criteria.

"Does this change over time? How do we change this?"

Hiring practices. If things are massively out of whack, it's reasonable to assume there's some unconscious bias in the hiring process. Deliberately engage in preferential hiring to counter that unconscious bias until you're in the right neighborhood.
Which will soon be overturned by those who were not hired due to their demographic rather than their merit. You would be engaging in genuine discrimination in an effort to counter it. You would be creating victims to replace victims at a 1:1 ratio.

"What happens if you just really want to make a character that is of a race/gender that is already over represented?"

Then you ask yourself why you want that character to be that race/gender. If there is some significant story/characterization reason, then you go ahead regardless. Otherwise, you change it.
I'm not about to dictate the story someone else wishes to create because it doesn't fit my world view.

 

[Piorn]

Wait, wait, wait, Travis?
I thought that American Akira cartoon trailer on youtube was just a random parody.

And on topic, considering the current trend of movie making, it'll just be another Robocop reboot that people will have forgotten in a week. It's unfortunate, but that's capitalism for you. Gotta fullfill the quota!

 

[Zato-1]

No, I don't think we need more feminism at all. In fact, I would prefer a lot less of it.
Gender equality is good. Feminism, however, seems to stand for "men bad, women good" nowadays.

 

[fezzthemonk]

Maybe my memories of GitS is awry, but isn't Motoko Kusanagi a robot, not a person. If that's the case, can't she be any race/ethnicity/etc that her "creator" wants?

I ask because Scarlett, besides being extremely hot, looks a heck of a lot like Motoko. Ergo the casting makes sense to me.

Hollywood does have a problem with whitewashing, for example - the recent Exodus and Noah movies, but I don't see this as a case.

This is kinda the point ghat most who are screaming raceism are missing. She shed her human shell long ago for a full prothsetic (robotic) body. One of the themes the show takles is the precieved loss of self after enough prothstetic peices have been added. Matoko has resided in several different bodies, hell, she could be played by a man and it would still fit

 

[laggyteabag]

Scarlett Johansson is a fine actress, and one that could pull off this role very well, no doubt about that. Would it have been a better choice to go for an Asian actress? Probably, but how many people will go rushing to the cinema to watch a film that stars some unknown actress that was in Pacific Rim that one time, as opposed to ScarJo who is very well known for her action movies?

You can probably expect a very westernised interpretation of Ghost in the Shell, and that could be fine. What is the worst thing that could happen? We get a shitty film. Great. Will the anime franchise get hurt in any way? Probably not. It will probably get chalked in with the rest of the shitty anime films that exist, and everybody will move on with their lives. All I can say is that at least it is a very capable actress in the lead role, and I am more than willing to give it a chance, but if you are a hardcore Ghost in the Shell fan that will criticise each and every thing that differs from the anime, this film is probably not for you anyway.

 

[Abomination]

Scarlett Johansson is a fine actress, and one that could pull off this role very well, no doubt about that. Would it have been a better choice to go for an Asian actress? Probably, but how many people will go rushing to the cinema to watch a film that stars some unknown actress that was in Pacific Rim that one time, as opposed to ScarJo who is very well known for her action movies?

You can probably expect a very westernised interpretation of Ghost in the Shell, and that could be fine. What is the worst thing that could happen? We get a shitty film. Great. Will the anime franchise get hurt in any way? Probably not. It will probably get chalked in with the rest of the shitty anime films that exist, and everybody will move on with their lives. All I can say is that at least it is a very capable actress in the lead roll, and I am more than willing to give it a chance, but if you are a hardcore Ghost in the Shell fan that will criticise each and every thing that differs from the anime, this film is probably not for you anyway.

I actually quite liked the western take on Edge of Tomorrow. It wasn't exactly a flop so it's good to remember the west can make "anime/manga" movies that stay relatively true to the source material.

 

[blackrave]

1.Yes, Major is full cyborg (organic brain+synthetic body) with mass produced body
2.Yes, she can look like anyone, but she has distinct look to her
3.No, Scarlet doesn't look like Major, since Major had distinct Japanese/Asian feel to her look
4.If anyone Batou always had non-asian feel to him (at least from my POV)
5.Really? This crap again? And this time they are messing with my favorite anime? FUUUUUUUUU...
6.Awesome if they hire lookalikes to play few random background people (to show that there are people with similar look like Motoko)
7.Bonus points if they never make big deal out of Nr.6

 

[Ihateregistering1]

"Ethnic minorities are prevented from playing white characters, yet white characters are given free reign to play minorities."
Ok, is this article seriously trolling?

-Idris Elba as Heimdall
-Will Smith as James West (he was white in the original TV show)
-Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury (yes I know there's the "Ultimate Marvel" version of Fury as well, but the original, white Nick Fury had been around decades longer).
-Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm (Fantastic Four reboot)
-Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin (Daredevil)
-Denzel Washington (The Manchurian Candidate)
-Morgan Freeman (Shawshank Redemption. In the book, his character was white).
-Lucy Lui in Charlie's Angels

There are more but I think that's enough. And guess what? You hear WAAAAYYYYY more cries of outrage when they cast a white actor to play a black/Hispanic/Asian person than vice versa.

I'm not saying I approve of it in any direction, but to pretend that ethnic minorities are "prevented" from playing white characters is just ridiculous.

Oh and Carly, it's 'given free rein', not 'given free reign'.

 

[Gorrath]

No, I don't think we need more feminism at all. In fact, I would prefer a lot less of it.
Gender equality is good. Feminism, however, seems to stand for "men bad, women good" nowadays.

There are people who call themselves feminists that do have that kind of mentality. They are a minority and not actually feminists. Feminism is about equality in social standing and opportunity. No need to throw the movement out with the bathwater.

OT - I offer for consideration the following random collection of thoughts:

It seems there are no few people willing to uphold a racist double standard when it comes to the supposed ethical obligations Hollywood has when making casting decisions. I find it irksome that so many people who claim to be against racism would support racist (by definition) ideology. I will always argue that one does not serve the cause of equality by fighting for racist double standards.

People do not have a right to representation in creative works. Those works, whether created by a single artist or art-by-committee, are the vision of their creators.

People do have a right to criticize creative works for not including representations they think are appropriate. Coupled with my last point, it is fair for someone to say that they think the role of Makoto would be better suited to an Asian actress. It would not be fair to say that those making the movie are or should be ethically obligated to cast an Asian actress in the role.

People are and should be free to put social pressure on artists to get them to conform to what those people view as "correct" representation. Artists are and should be free to criticize and/or ignore the crap out of those people.

Those who would (myself included) like to see more minorities represented in various roles in media need to be less picky about how those roles are represented. One of the biggest damned deterrents to portraying any minority character is the inevitable backlash you're going to get from people who decide they don't like the representation. One need look no further than Disney's "The Princess and the Frog" and the kerfuffle over just the lead characters name to see what I mean. If every time an artist includes a minority character in their work, they promptly get the pointy end of the social justice movement, they are going to be a heck of a lot less likely to include minority characters in future works.

There is simply no pleasing everyone. If we assert that including minority characters is an ethical obligation and claim that how those characters are portrayed is also carries an ethical obligation, then there is no possible way for a content creator to meet those ethical obligations. If they do not include minority characters, they are certain to offend. If they do include minority characters, they are certain to offend. This problem is not one that can be resolved so long as people are intent on being offended.

 

[Aggieknight]

Maybe my memories of GitS is awry, but isn't Motoko Kusanagi a robot, not a person. If that's the case, can't she be any race/ethnicity/etc that her "creator" wants?

No she's not a ROBOT.
Kusanagi is orignially a japanese female human person that got a full prosthetic body replacement, which still holds her real brain. That makes her a cyborg, which is a totally different thing.

Yet being a CYBORG (caps lock get stuck?) with a full prosthetic body replacement she can be any race or ethnicity that they (the people that gave her a new body) want her to be.

 

[b.w.irenicus]

Well, first things first, I have zero problems with Johansen starring Ghost in the Shell. I do however understand that for diversitys sake and in this case the sake of a faithful adaptation some people would like the movie to feature asian actors. And I don't disagree with that, I would still watch the movie (if it was good to begin with). However, I do want to contribute a different perspective:
I love watching movies with my wife. And you knw whta she does if a moves features only asian actors? She does not watch it. Hold on hold on! Not because she doesn't like asians or thinks they are somehow less than we are (in fact, she has this weid fetish that almost all asians are cute and beatiful, kinda like human elves -_-).
Its just that she cannot tell them appart. She just can't. I tried watching The Raid with her and she was constantly asking "Who was that again?" "On witch side was he on?", the asian names didn't help either. So for her, watching a movie that features only asian actors demands a high degee of concentration and simply put, is hardly any fun. And afaik that's not "white" phenomenon. Many asians think the same about blacks or caucasians, which is why they usually use asian actors themself when they make a movie (or indian moviemakers using indian staff when adapting western material).
I am of course aware that this is anecdotal evidence at best, I have no idea how the majority of western movie goers think. I can however understand why they would use more western orientated actors in Hollywood.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

If they were just going to hire one of Hollywood's most bankable female actresses to play the lead role, I just don't see how it was even necessary to involve the intellectual property of Ghost In The Shell in the first place. They could've easily developed an original intellectual property in the cyberpunk genre around Scarlet's star power.

 

[Gorrath]

Maybe my memories of GitS is awry, but isn't Motoko Kusanagi a robot, not a person. If that's the case, can't she be any race/ethnicity/etc that her "creator" wants?

I ask because Scarlett, besides being extremely hot, looks a heck of a lot like Motoko. Ergo the casting makes sense to me.

Hollywood does have a problem with whitewashing, for example - the recent Exodus and Noah movies, but I don't see this as a case.

What he said.

Friendly advice here, you should add more to your post if you want to avoid a mod warning for low content. They don't take kindly to posts that are just a "thumbs up." Cheers!