Girlfriend Zone!

sanquin

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generals3 said:
Or it's simply because they find it easier to get over them by taking distance? Why assume the worst.
So a guy needs time to 'get over a girl' even if there was never anything between them other than a friendship and a one-sided crush from his side? Sounds really immature to me. I get needing time to 'get over' an ex girlfriend, but not a friend that you just asked out and she said no.

However I welcome your post. As it shows the problem from the male thinking point, just like the blog post in the OP tried to point out. Guys complain about the friendzone so much and how bad it is. Yet they never try to see it from the girl's side. As in "Why can't I just be nice to a guy for once, without him asking me out and eventually avoiding me because I rejected that offer?"
 

sanquin

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SonicWaffle said:
I've mentioned this already in the thread, but I find it strange that this is always the assumption. It's far more likely that the poor guy now feels awkward as hell and is too embarrassed to remain friends, having opened up about his feelings only to be rejected. Sure, there are plenty of guys who were probably only after sex and lost interest when the option was taken off the table, but I kinda doubt that most guys who go to the trouble of befriending and spending a lot of time with a girl are only in it for the titties. After all, the main reason for asking someone out is because you like them and want to spend more time with them, not because you want to get naked and jiggly. That's a concern for further down the line.

Isn't it a little judgemental to assume that a guy who stops talking to you is doing so because you're no longer of any interest to him rather than to wonder if maybe he's feeling pretty damn embarrassed about the whole thing and thinks that hanging out with you is going to be awkward?
I call that a case of 'man up and get over it'. I've been rejected by 3 different guys and we still stayed friends no problem.
 

Zantos

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SaneAmongInsane said:
sanquin said:
SonicWaffle said:
How can that situation possibly be construed as anyone's fault?

People don't choose who they are attracted to. If you meet a person and get on really, really well, and you happen to also feel sexual attraction to that person then the obvious conclusion is that there is potential for a relationship. How else is that supposed to work? Should men only ask a woman out if they don't care much for her personality but think she has great tits?

It's pretty annoying to see, whenever this topic comes up, people making the "why can't you just be friends?" argument because why should you settle for just friends if there's clear potential for something more. If she wants to stay as friends, that's fine, but there's nothing wrong with making a move because you've found a person you're sexually attracted to and with whom you get on very well. It's a much better basis for a relationship than getting drunk and taking some random home. Consequently, it's natural to feel disappointed when it doesn't pan out. That's not a person's "fault" for seeing a potential girlfriend as a potential girlfriend.
You're getting me wrong. I'm all for guys at least trying for a relationship if they're attracted to a girl. The problem I have is with the guys that, after being 'friendzoned', they totally alienate themselves from said female friend. As in, the only thing they cared about was getting into that girl's pants. And once they find out that's not possible, they lose interest and stop trying to be friends.
I've been that guy.

I'm disliking all this "Pants" talk though. Every time i've ever gone that route I was seeking out a genuine relationship. Hey, it's difficult. Reach for a brass ring, fall and then still to try to maintain a friendship with that person? That takes a great deal of maturity to move on from that, and not everyone has that in them.
I wouldn't call it maturity so much as practice. I used to not be able to look at a girl that I really thought we'd be perfect together but turned me down. Now a number of times (possibly higher than I'm going to admit to) I can have perfectly functioning friendships with people that I used to be head over heels for, and surprisingly people that felt like that about me. By all means feeling upset about it shows that you had invested emotion in the scenario, go for it.

The problem is when people start to build up this shield of "I was perfect and deserved this". Pro-tip, if you can in the space of one conversation go from thinking you love someone to telling anyone that will listen that she's a manipulative ***** who is just using you to look popular, you probably aren't that great relationship material.

But in addressing the "pants" talk, this is something you'll have to clear for me. Maybe it's just the type of friendships I cultivate, but the only differences between my close friends and relationships is the physical. I mean, the kissing and sex and unspeakable sex have emotional links to them, but they're still physical acts. It's nice to have a partner to support you and cheer you up when you're sad and enjoy spending time with, but if they're the only person in your life that can do that it just strikes me as odd, and having been in a relationship with someone that thought like that I can tell you straight up that it has a serious impact on the both of you.
 

Wafflemarine

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Lil devils x said:
I think this article is pretty spot on for many. Although I don't find that the men stop once you tell them that you consider them to be a brother, a family member rather than someone you are sexually attracted to. They often get worse, with leters, flowers and gifts like you are somehow going to change your mind. It isn't just a "girlfriend zone" they profess undying love, that you are their soul mate and the marriage proposals are unbearable. The worst part is they hang on to this idea that " maybe someday things will change" even while you are in relationship with someone else and the second a relationship doesn't work out you feel as though the vultures are swooping down on you. Literally the very same week you break up with someone you have every guy you know asking you out at once and telling you that they have all had feelings for you for a long time and it is just creepy to be honest that they were only trying to be close to you in hopes that you have sex with them some day.
This is one of the biggest issues with younger people and I bet it has something to do with movies and the ideal relationship bullshit they get people to believe. I don't expect someone I show interest in to think I want them for life and both sexes do this and it is equally creepy. Peoples assumptions of how to act or what is going on are what just create these issues. I have a friend who is female and sure she is cute but far different then me personality wise so I am not interested. She was super depressed for about 2 weeks so I made her some gluten free brownies(she has that thing where she needs gluten free) since she would kill for chocolate stuff then started to act weird like I wanted to get into her pants heck I ate half the brownies that was worth the time baking them. Like I said with my previous post if people would be more blunt and quit assuming stuff or in a guys case take a damn hint and move on these issues would stop turning into train wrecks. For me a woman who is stuck in the gender roles idea or thinks life is some movie/show romance it is a huge turn off I am not Romeo.
 

sanquin

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minimacker said:
I can totally see why someone would feel this way. It's not as much as "he only sees her as a girlfriend" and more "We get along so damn well, we're always doing stuff together and we make each other happy", but when you then get rejected, they feel like the girl was only putting on a show. She didn't actually feel comfortable with you, she was just faking it. She doesn't want companionship with you.

TL;DR They feel like you're her entourage, not her equal.

If you were in that moment, this is probably what would be going through your head.

Edit: I think a lot of guys also want to know the cold hard facts. Feelings are out of the window at that moment. Am I not a very attractive guy? Am I boring? Too shy? Too outgoing? Trying to spare their feelings is a shitty way of doing it.
Getting along so well still doesn't mean that the girl is also attracted to them in a romantic/sexual way. Even if they're good looking that might still not be the case. Girls, or at least I, don't see 'getting along very well' as a guarantee to also take the next step. Well, like I said in a previous post I at least said yes to guys that have asked me out to see where things would lead, even if I didn't see them as boyfriend material at that time.

I think a large part of the problem is that girls are very hard to figure out for guys. And that the difference between 'a girl being nice to you' and 'a girl liking you and being interested in something more' can be difficult to discern. Still, I see it as a 'get over it' thing. She didn't want to date you, tough luck you can still be friends. It's how I've dealt with guys that rejected me.
 

Rainforce

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sanquin said:
So a guy needs time to 'get over a girl' even if there was never anything between them other than a friendship and a one-sided crush from his side? Sounds really immature to me. I get needing time to 'get over' an ex girlfriend, but not a friend that you just asked out and she said no.
I think it can be assumed that the guy just did the whole friendship thing to actually GET closer, and once that factor is out of the way, it becomes pointless. It's even worse than just people being whiny:
they treat you solely as a potential mate, and you're "not good for anything else" (dunno if that was already mentioned in the thread - but from what I've seen, it's pretty much how a lot of guys see it - with a little less negative connotation to it, though)
 

Mr Cwtchy

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sanquin said:
generals3 said:
Or it's simply because they find it easier to get over them by taking distance? Why assume the worst.
So a guy needs time to 'get over a girl' even if there was never anything between them other than a friendship and a one-sided crush from his side? Sounds really immature to me. I get needing time to 'get over' an ex girlfriend, but not a friend that you just asked out and she said no.

However I welcome your post. As it shows the problem from the male thinking point, just like the blog post in the OP tried to point out. Guys complain about the friendzone so much and how bad it is. Yet they never try to see it from the girl's side. As in "Why can't I just be nice to a guy for once, without him asking me out and eventually avoiding me because I rejected that offer?"
If I've learned anything from being on these forums on this subject, it's that women are not making any more of an effort to understand the other side than men are.

Not that the sides here are gender-based of course. Because they aren't.
 

sanquin

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Rainforce said:
I think it can be assumed that the guy just did the whole friendship thing to actually GET closer, and once that factor is out of the way, it becomes pointless. It's even worse than just people being whiny:
they treat you solely as a potential mate, and you're "not good for anything else" (dunno if that was already mentioned in the thread - but from what I've seen, it's pretty much how a lot of guys see it - with a little less negative connotation to it, though)
That's what I've been saying. Those are the people I hate. Becoming a girl's friend and such for the sole reason of trying to hook up with her.
 

sanquin

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Mr Cwtchy said:
If I've learned anything from being on these forums on this subject, it's that women are not making any more of an effort to understand the other side than men are.

Not that the sides here are gender-based of course. Because they aren't.
In this case, there are two sides. Men don't understand women, women don't understand men. Any attempts to understand each other in the past have failed, no matter how much effort was put into it.
 

FFP2

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I know that this is satire but it's depressingly true as well...

It sucks when you see a female friend that's oblivious to most of her male friends' being "friends" with her with the sole intention of getting in her pants.

P.S Please don't turn this into yet another sexism thread. That train has long past. Or at least until Sterling needs more views for all that admoney.
 

DevilWithaHalo

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We speak of emotional maturity? What of the selfishness and borderline manipulation of any person who willingly maintains friendship with someone who expressed interest in more? Good on any person who breaks from such a treacherous relationship, knowing their emotions are not to be toyed with by someone who doesn't respect their well being enough to consider the power they now hold over them. And they have the gall to complain about them only wanting sex? Not accepting that their genuine friendship was a foundation where real emotions actually grew beyond what they wanted? Because we cannot accept that emotional affections are often coupled with physical intimacy?

So quick to condemn, especially those that condemn you for the same.

The satire failed miserably because it is the epitome of the first world problems that the rejected wish they could experienced from the mouth of the rejecter. Once again their emotions are treated as childish, immature and perverted; when they should have done the "right thing" and considered the preferences of the chooser. That they must someone respect the choices and lack of attraction the other has; while the other is required to what? Maintain the level of elevation they have over the other?

It is not satire; it is pouring salt within the wounds of those that were bound by the wills of their hearts.

And why? Because you want them to understand why you are hurt? And you method of doing so is making fun of why and how they are hurt? I have no shame enough to give you.
 

Charli

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Autotelic said:
IceForce said:
I don't understand people who say the friendzone doesn't exist.
It's quite possible for someone to reject someone else as a relationship partner, but still accept them as a friend.

Since this phenomenon DOES exist, then by extension, the friendzone exists too.
I think that people don't object quite so much to the 'technical' definition of 'the friendzone', but rather to the connotations attached to it. We do all agree that sometimes, one person will reject their admirer because they only want to be friends.

The thing is, the term carries a lot of additional meaning. There's a tone of entitlement attached to it - "I'm such a nice guy, but girls still won't put out; girls only like jerks; I'm totally friendzoned." It would be humorously ironic if it weren't such a dangerous sentiment due to the somewhat misogynistic assumptions attached to it. I know a fair number of guys who hear other guys complaining about being friendzoned, and it has warped their perceptions of how to interact with women. It's completely unfair to expect someone to enter a relationship with you just because you're being nice to them, and yet not only has this expectation come to exist, the people holding that expectation actually seem to feel victimised by their rejection.

It's not the term itself that people object to - it's this warped view of relationships that people are seeking to debunk.
I was going to respond and then you swooped in like a hero to do my job for me. Good Good.
This. You are friends. Or not friends. The Zone is a lie, a verbal tac-on to get a victimization slant on the affair.
And that is what pisses people off, not the act or the description of the act. But even then I argue that the two state of being, are; friends or not friends. There are branches within those two but this mythical zone has never had anything attached to it that wasn't a whining douche nozzle crying about how he or she were nice to someone and were denied their promised reward. Like Mario expecting cake from Peach after every kidnapping.

Anyway moving on from that negativity, Anything I have to say about this matter was said in the 1-month ago thread. If anyone's memory is failing them, get their reading glasses on and have at you.
 

salfiert

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I dunno its all a thing of mind set, I'm a guy and I have a much easier time being friends with girls than guys, a number of my female friends tried to have the friendzone talk with me when we started getting close, it was a long and painstaking process to explain to them that I was not in fact interested, at the same time I have been in the situation where I started to develop feelings for one of my closest friends, made me erratic and confrontational not fun, the friend zone more than anything is a mindset, it is a way to rail against unrequited love, its a painful place to be in, and most people have been there some people get angry with the person they perceived have friendzoned them and that is unreasonable, but a lot of people are just angry with the position they are in and need a way to express that, and I don't know if that's a necessarily bad thing
 

Phasmal

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We get a lot of `But being friendzoned hurts!`.
Yes, I'm sure it hurts.
Nobody is trying to say that it doesn't.

But it isn't exactly all butterflies and rainbows on the other side of it either.
I especially am not great at making friends, I'm pretty shy.
Losing a friend because they imagined that I was somehow the `one for them`, without any input from me, was very hurtful.
And you get a lot of `But girls just date jerks instead!`.
The guy I `friendzoned` (by never responding to a second-hand confession), said my boyfriend at the time was a jerk.
He'd never met him.
They'd never even been in the same room.
Why, I wonder, would somebody who had been rejected feel the need to make up things like `but they are dating a jerk!`.
Perhaps to get sympathy.
 

runnernda

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I realize the post was satire, but this happens to me every now and then. And it sucks, because you don't want to hurt their feelings, but you really do just see them as a friend.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Phasmal said:
Why, I wonder, would somebody who had been rejected feel the need to make up things like `but they are dating a jerk!
Eh. The "other man" or "other woman" is always a jerk. I've never met my ex's husband, but I will remained convinced until the day I die that the man is an utter bastard. He could be pulling a bag of puppies out of a house fire and I'd still despise him. "Jerk", after all, is an entirely subjective and relative label. We're all someone's jerk.

OT: At least, I think it's OT:

Having someone view you only as a friend when you fancied a romance hurts, and is awful.

Having someone view you as a romantic prospect when you thought they were a platonic friend, and then that person disappears into the ether because their kindness was actually courting, hurts and is awful.

Alas, in neither situation does the other person OWE you anything. Friendships are not inherently more noble than romantic relationships, nor visa versa. Expecting someone to subdue romantic feelings for the sake of a friendship is silly (and unwise, if they say yes they are almost certainly lying and laying in wait for a later opportunity) and no less fundamentally unfair than expecting someone to abruptly find you sexually appealing just because you showed them basic human kindness.

People don't always hook up. Romance is hard. If it was easy, the poets wouldn't be so hot on it. They'd write about something else instead. Like...fishing. Or Badminton.
 

Rainforce

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sanquin said:
In this case, there are two sides. Men don't understand women, women don't understand men. Any attempts to understand each other in the past have failed, no matter how much effort was put into it.
I think that position is too biased; we mostly see the negative side, but I know enough people for whom it works just fine.
 

generals3

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Rainforce said:
I think it can be assumed that the guy just did the whole friendship thing to actually GET closer, and once that factor is out of the way, it becomes pointless. It's even worse than just people being whiny:
they treat you solely as a potential mate, and you're "not good for anything else" (dunno if that was already mentioned in the thread - but from what I've seen, it's pretty much how a lot of guys see it - with a little less negative connotation to it, though)
First of all it shouldn't be assumed the friendship thing happened to get closer. It happens quite often that friendship makes romantic feelings pop up. But even if we assumed the friendship was there to get closer, what's wrong with that? Now sure the extremely wrong way you phrased it makes it sound bad. The whole "you're not good for anything else" isn't accurate at all. It is simply that most people don't like to constantly hang out with others who don't have the same romantic feelings for them, it can make the "getting over" process much harder than it has to be. And than let's take a deeper look at the "tactic" of becoming friends to get closer. What's wrong with wanting to know someone better and let that person let you know better before putting yourself in the situation which will get you judged as a potential romantic partner. Don't we all say the "interior" is also very important? Who the fuck would have the pretense to claim they can judge someone's personality after one or two dates. There is nothing wrong with using a tactic which minimizes the odds of you being "misjudged". On top of that it may make you realize the person you wanted to have a relationship with isn't actually the right person for you.
 

Frotality

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cant we all just finally understand that human relationships arent binary and that all this friendzone BS is just furthering everyone's conflicting expectations? women are not genetically wired to want to f**k everything that is attractive to them like men are, and its perfectly healthy to want someone of the opposite sex (or same, or whatever one you like) to hang out with without a cloud of sexual tension hanging over you all the time.

now this bit is just personal experience and observation, but it seems to me women have guy friends to avoid needless drama, something that relationships and other female friends are full of, probably developed from a self-understanding that men seem to lack. listen here guys; it would do you some real good to get a lesbian friend who is physically attractive to you, so you might develop the same control and understanding. you might even come to realize that sometimes just having fun with a girl and being content at that brings you far more happiness than all the tension and drama of a relationship ever could. no need for forced bravado and tiny lies of omission, no little instinctual tingle in the back of your head viewing friends as competition... having a female friend and only friend is actually wonderfully UNstressful once you stop looking at fairytale happily-ever-afters as the key to happiness.
 

Ratties

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Dogstile said:
Ratties said:
Well I don't make friends with girls because I think it's pointless. Alright if I just want to hang out and have a good time, I will do it with other guys. Let me be blunt about this. Think girls can be fun to hang out with as well. Find the idea of a girl just wanting to be just a friend kind of harsh. Likes everything about me. All we do all day is joke around and have a good time. Know that there is a part of every guy that knows that she thinks you are not attractive enough to date. Never tell you that. If that is not case, heres another. If you are just a back up guy she has around in case all the other guys don't work out. Got to say that it makes me sound like a insecure asshole. A girl would just say, "hey I am not attracted to you, do you want to be friends?" Know it's harsh, the truth hurts.
You know what would be awesome? If people stopped blaming the other person for their insecurities. You think you're a backup guy? Ask her, its not her fault you're insecure. Don't think you're attractive enough to date? Look at every fat dude with a girlfriend ever.

You know what I did when I had those thoughts? I talked about them. Now i'm actually dating her. Funny how talking to the other person about it without blaming them doesn't push them away if you're not being a whiny twat about it.

E: In fact, this entire thread could be resolved really quickly if people just got over their own mental hangups. The girl doesn't owe you shit, the guy doesn't owe you shit. Blaming them for not satisfying your urge is bullshit because its your urge, not theirs.

Well after reading two messages about this, I didn't read yours. After all, the first two pretty much said the same thing you wrote

"Girls only go for attractive guys" will come up at some point. I will counter this preemptively by pointing out how guys who complain about this only seem to go for pretty girls or in the same breathe will make fun of a fat girl. Just, goddamn, can we end the thread now?
Dogstile said:
Ratties said:
Well I don't make friends with girls because I think it's pointless. Alright if I just want to hang out and have a good time, I will do it with other guys. Let me be blunt about this. Think girls can be fun to hang out with as well. Find the idea of a girl just wanting to be just a friend kind of harsh. Likes everything about me. All we do all day is joke around and have a good time. Know that there is a part of every guy that knows that she thinks you are not attractive enough to date. Never tell you that. If that is not case, heres another. If you are just a back up guy she has around in case all the other guys don't work out. Got to say that it makes me sound like a insecure asshole. A girl would just say, "hey I am not attracted to you, do you want to be friends?" Know it's harsh, the truth hurts.
You know what would be awesome? If people stopped blaming the other person for their insecurities. You think you're a backup guy? Ask her, its not her fault you're insecure. Don't think you're attractive enough to date? Look at every fat

dude with a girlfriend ever.

You know what I did when I had those thoughts? I talked about them. Now i'm actually dating her. Funny how talking to the other person about it without blaming them doesn't push them away if you're not being a whiny twat about it.

E: In fact, this entire thread could be resolved really quickly if people just got over their own mental hangups. The girl doesn't owe you shit, the guy doesn't owe you shit. Blaming them for not satisfying your urge is bullshit because its your urge, not theirs.

"Girls only go for attractive guys" will come up at some point. I will counter this preemptively by pointing out how guys who complain about this only seem to go for pretty girls or in the same breathe will make fun of a fat girl. Just, goddamn, can we end the thread now?
Dogstile said:
Ratties said:
Well I don't make friends with girls because I think it's pointless. Alright if I just want to hang out and have a good time, I will do it with other guys. Let me be blunt about this. Think girls can be fun to hang out with as well. Find the idea of a girl just wanting to be just a friend kind of harsh. Likes everything about me. All we do all day is joke around and have a good time. Know that there is a part of every guy that knows that she thinks you are not attractive enough to date. Never tell you that. If that is not case, heres another. If you are just a back up guy she has around in case all the other guys don't work out. Got to say that it makes me sound like a insecure asshole. A girl would just say, "hey I am not attracted to you, do you want to be friends?" Know it's harsh, the truth hurts.
You know what would be awesome? If people stopped blaming the other person for their insecurities. You think you're a backup guy? Ask her, its not her fault you're insecure. Don't think you're attractive enough to date? Look at every fat dude with a girlfriend ever.

You know what I did when I had those thoughts? I talked about them. Now i'm actually dating her. Funny how talking to the other person about it without blaming them doesn't push them away if you're not being a whiny twat about it.

E: In fact, this entire thread could be resolved really quickly if people just got over their own mental hangups. The girl doesn't owe you shit, the guy doesn't owe you shit. Blaming them for not satisfying your urge is bullshit because its your urge, not theirs.

"Girls only go for attractive guys" will come up at some point. I will counter this preemptively by pointing out how guys who complain about this only seem to go for pretty girls or in the same breathe will make fun of a fat girl. Just, goddamn, can we end the thread now?
Well I don't need a strangers advice. All you did was tell me stuff I already know, but thanks.