Girlfriend Zone!

[Nomanslander]

My take on this whole matter, I blame society and how it teaches us to act around the opposite sex.

As of now, there's a lot a women can learn towards how to act around men. Women know what attracts us, what drives us. They know how we act around other guys. Society has mostly been catered around how to please a man. But when it comes to women? There isn't much clue. Well, women know what they like. But the problem is guys don't. We don't understand their needs, we think they're some type of mysterious creatures that is different from us, and we scratch our heads trying to figure them out.

Truth of the matter is, they're no different from us.

Women know all to well how to attract a man. But the unfortunate thing is men in our society have no clue on how to attract women. Because society hasn't been built up around how to cater to women's desires (since for the longest time; women have been considered the inferior sex), men have no clue on what to do.

I'm going to put it simply. If you want to be more than just friends, you can't come across as just friends. In the end, a relationship is going to involve sex, and if you want a women to want that from you, you have to learn how to attract them that way. The reason the quite essential "jerk" always gets the girl is they're not afraid to want sex from women, nice guys are, so they learn the tricks of the trade on how to attract women faster than the nice guys do.

Now another thing that's bullshitting about our society today are the traditions we still live by. Particularly, men are still suppose to be the gender to make the initiation of approaching a girl. If a girl is drawn to a guy, they can't approach him unless out of fear of coming across as a slut. Guys have to do everything while the girl has to pretend she isn't interested in finding a sexual relationship because that would make her come across as a whore. This is a huge problem because it forces women to keep their thoughts to themselves, and it doesn't allow guys to learn from them.

Anyways... that's my two cents on the matter.

 

[Vegosiux]

Let's just assume for the sake of this post that the concept of friends with benefits does not exist.

Well the moment you stop seeing sex as a "benefit", that concept ceases to exist. Allow me to elaborate. The "with benefits" part is tacked on to allegedly say "who do something friends generally aren't expected to do". But friends generally aren't expected to do any one specific thing, so any one specific thing can be classified as "benefit" in that regard.

So it's more a rub-it-in-your-face "but still getting laid" thing. So the concept of "friends with benefits" mostly exists so people can tell you they're getting laid without explicitly stating it.

Now for my female readers out there, let me offer you some advice: a lot of guys SUCK at getting the message. Women are trained to let men down gently and vaguely, "I'm not ready for a relationship right now," "I think it's too soon for me," repeat ad nauseam. This gives them the idea that, if they wait around long enough, you'll finally be "ready." Don't do this. Let them know "Hey, I don't like you like that." Is it blunt? Yes. Will it hurt? Most likely, provided they don't have skin made of titanium, but it is far, far better to tell them this way, than to imbue them with the sense of false hope that you will someday be available to them.

Words of wisdom. From your lips into the ear of every single person on the planet and the few who aren't currently on it, hopefully.

 

[Rainforce]

First of all it shouldn't be assumed the friendship thing happened to get closer. It happens quite often that friendship makes romantic feelings pop up. But even if we assumed the friendship was there to get closer, what's wrong with that? Now sure the extremely wrong way you phrased it makes it sound bad. The whole "you're not good for anything else" isn't accurate at all. It is simply that most people don't like to constantly hang out with others who don't have the same romantic feelings for them, it can make the "getting over" process much harder than it has to be. And than let's take a deeper look at the "tactic" of becoming friends to get closer. What's wrong with wanting to know someone better and let that person let you know better before putting yourself in the situation which will get you judged as a potential romantic partner. Don't we all say the "interior" is also very important? Who the fuck would have the pretense to claim they can judge someone's personality after one or two dates. There is nothing wrong with using a tactic which minimizes the odds of you being "misjudged". On top of that it may make you realize the person you wanted to have a relationship with isn't actually the right person for you.

your perspective is right as well, but I didn't mean this as an actively planned thing - it's just so that subconsciously, you WILL try to get closer via the whole friendship path if you're initially , no matter what. And when the initial attractor fails, you WILL fall off that track.
...
Also screw the rest I was about to write, you're right enough with what you wrote.

 

[6_Qubed]

I can't hear the satire over the sound of this anvil hitting me in the head.

(yes I know it's writing and you couldn't actually hear writing anyway shut up)

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I found a way to avoid the Friendzone myth and any repercussions that would come from complaining about the supposed zone. I just don't talk to anybody unless I have something to say.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

How can that situation possibly be construed as anyone's fault?

People don't choose who they are attracted to. If you meet a person and get on really, really well, and you happen to also feel sexual attraction to that person then the obvious conclusion is that there is potential for a relationship. How else is that supposed to work? Should men only ask a woman out if they don't care much for her personality but think she has great tits?

It's pretty annoying to see, whenever this topic comes up, people making the "why can't you just be friends?" argument because why should you settle for just friends if there's clear potential for something more. If she wants to stay as friends, that's fine, but there's nothing wrong with making a move because you've found a person you're sexually attracted to and with whom you get on very well. It's a much better basis for a relationship than getting drunk and taking some random home. Consequently, it's natural to feel disappointed when it doesn't pan out. That's not a person's "fault" for seeing a potential girlfriend as a potential girlfriend.

You're getting me wrong. I'm all for guys at least trying for a relationship if they're attracted to a girl. The problem I have is with the guys that, after being 'friendzoned', they totally alienate themselves from said female friend. As in, the only thing they cared about was getting into that girl's pants. And once they find out that's not possible, they lose interest and stop trying to be friends.

I've been that guy.

I'm disliking all this "Pants" talk though. Every time i've ever gone that route I was seeking out a genuine relationship. Hey, it's difficult. Reach for a brass ring, fall and then still to try to maintain a friendship with that person? That takes a great deal of maturity to move on from that, and not everyone has that in them.

I wouldn't call it maturity so much as practice. I used to not be able to look at a girl that I really thought we'd be perfect together but turned me down. Now a number of times (possibly higher than I'm going to admit to) I can have perfectly functioning friendships with people that I used to be head over heels for, and surprisingly people that felt like that about me. By all means feeling upset about it shows that you had invested emotion in the scenario, go for it.

The problem is when people start to build up this shield of "I was perfect and deserved this". Pro-tip, if you can in the space of one conversation go from thinking you love someone to telling anyone that will listen that she's a manipulative ***** who is just using you to look popular, you probably aren't that great relationship material.

But in addressing the "pants" talk, this is something you'll have to clear for me. Maybe it's just the type of friendships I cultivate, but the only differences between my close friends and relationships is the physical. I mean, the kissing and sex and unspeakable sex have emotional links to them, but they're still physical acts. It's nice to have a partner to support you and cheer you up when you're sad and enjoy spending time with, but if they're the only person in your life that can do that it just strikes me as odd, and having been in a relationship with someone that thought like that I can tell you straight up that it has a serious impact on the both of you.

It just seeming implies it was all about getting one's dick wet, as oppose to some sort of meaningful intimacy.

 

[accipitre]

That's what I've been saying. Those are the people I hate. Becoming a girl's friend and such for the sole reason of trying to hook up with her.

Yeah bro, it's a great idea to randomly hook up with a girl without getting to know her first. I just walk up to them on the street and I'm like "You're a really nice person, and I quite like you. I'd like to enter a deep, meaningful, committed relationship with you."

Complaining about guys that become friends with a girl in the hopes of entering a relationship is painfully retarded, especially because most of the time, the girl is unwittingly leading the guy on. And you expect him to not be happy when you lead him on and then shoot him down? He's not cutting you off because he's not getting in your pants (that's what fuckbuddies are for). He's cutting you off because you hurt him.

Gah, this is so infuriating. There's such a massive lack of empathy in this article that I want to tear my hair out. Tha author even pulls the "I'm a nice person" card (despite shooting this guy down and then complaining about it) and claims that she's not a douchebag (even though she has no empathy for him). The fact that she makes these claims and then immediately afterwards makes sexist cracks about "men?s primal lizardbrains" (please look at the ratio of male to female engineers in the world today, child) says a lot.

tl;dr: Typical misandrist rant resulting from driving friends away after leading them on.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

There are several reasons why people end up in the friend zone, but the one I hear about most often is this:
you've tipped the scales of attraction vs comfort to the comfort side. They have become too comfortable with you, and as such, you are no longer deemed "relationship material." You become like a brother. Or a lamp.
Let's just assume for the sake of this post that the concept of friends with benefits does not exist.

Take a look at what this man is doing: he is balancing. It's exactly like that. You meet a girl, she thinks you're cute, and the countdown timer begins. Wait too long and the scale shifts: she loses interest and you lose your chance for a while. So, you have to keep inching it in the opposite direction by showing her that you're interested in being more than just friends. Strike while the iron is hot, because that window is closing, and it won't wait around. Be adventurous and flirtatious. Take them out, but don't be there at their beck and call. You're a man, not a dog. You have your own life to live, you have your own problems, and you can't be dealing with somebody else's emotional instability. I'm not saying to treat women like shit, but don't be there to pamper their asses. Think of it like a mystery: the best ones keep you in suspense, they keep you guessing. They never reveal themselves completely. Be like that: intrigue them, make them wanting more.

The friend zone sucks, there's no doubt about that, and while you can look up all of the advice in the world on how to avoid it, it pales in comparison to the actual experience you get from finding yourself in there.

Now for my female readers out there, let me offer you some advice: a lot of guys SUCK at getting the message. Women are trained to let men down gently and vaguely, "I'm not ready for a relationship right now," "I think it's too soon for me," repeat ad nauseam. This gives them the idea that, if they wait around long enough, you'll finally be "ready." Don't do this. Let them know "Hey, I don't like you like that." Is it blunt? Yes. Will it hurt? Most likely, provided they don't have skin made of titanium, but it is far, far better to tell them this way, than to imbue them with the sense of false hope that you will someday be available to them.

QFT

i think this could go either way on the gender scale, but it is very important to convey this.

if you don't make your intentions/feelings clear, holy fuck, people will twist whatever you say in their head to give themselves a possible chance. make your intentions CLEAR from the get go, just assuming things is setup for bad things to happen in the long run.

(this is coming from a guy who has friendzoned 4-5 girls off the top of my head, they ended up cooling off after a month or so and we are great friends now, but nonetheless i friend zoned them, hard, and they got the point loud and clear )

 

[Nickolai77]

I think the problem at the heart of the matter is the miss-match between romance and friendship between the two genders.

Guys don't really differentiate between a romance and friendship because men tend not to be picky about choosing sexual partners. They'll approach a prospective romantic partner like a friend, and a friend can easily become a prospective romantic partner- the distinctions appear naturally blurred through the eyes of a man.

For women on the other hand i feel the distinctions are more rigid. A man is either a friend or prospective romantic partner, and that distinction is made early on and it's hard to shift to one from the other (that's not to say it doesn't ever happen however.) If a man approaches a women like a friend then he's going to be put in the friend category but if he doesn't do that he's more likely to be put in the prospective partner category.

I think a problem lots of men face is that we naively assume that women view relationships in the same way we do. You like someone so you want to get to know them, you enjoy spending time with them and you build a friendship and from that friendship you hope romance will blossom. That only tends to happen though if the woman views you as a potential romantic partner from day one- and the trouble with building a friendship first is that you reveal your flaws and weaknesses to them which turns a lot of women off.

The reasons why this happens is probably a complex mix of evolved behaviour and how genders are socalised, but as with all discussions about human behaviour we need to be mindful that we can only make vague generalisations given the complexity and intelligence of the human mind.

This will sound rich coming from a guy, but i do sometimes wish that girls approached sex and relationships in the same way that guys did- Everyone would be having a hell of a lot more sex otherwise. But then again maybe if humans were like that we'd all be so busy fucking we'd have never left the caves

Take a look at what this man is doing: he is balancing. It's exactly like that. You meet a girl, she thinks you're cute, and the countdown timer begins. Wait too long and the scale shifts: she loses interest and you lose your chance for a while. So, you have to keep inching it in the opposite direction by showing her that you're interested in being more than just friends. Strike while the iron is hot, because that window is closing, and it won't wait around. Be adventurous and flirtatious. Take them out, but don't be there at their beck and call. You're a man, not a dog. You have your own life to live, you have your own problems, and you can't be dealing with somebody else's emotional instability. I'm not saying to treat women like shit, but don't be there to pamper their asses. Think of it like a mystery: the best ones keep you in suspense, they keep you guessing. They never reveal themselves completely. Be like that: intrigue them, make them wanting more.

Broadly agree with what this guy says- you need to make your intentions known early on so women know how to view you and you ask them out fairly sharpish whilst you still hold her romantic interest. Leave it to late or get too comfortable with her and she'll see you as a friend. If it works great, if not you disengage and move on.

Sadly, from personal experience it's rarely that simple, even if you are experienced enough to know the risks and can confidently ask women out it's easy to get sucked into a girl who you see regularly and so you can't disengage from them- and then you end up with all the emotional friendzone baggage.

Oh, and whilst i'm on this subject- I hate it when people say "be yourself" when you're around other women, because i find it really useless advice. Being myself around women, i only make friends with them because that's what i'm naturally inclined to do.


Philosophically speaking, i don't think there's such a thing as a "true self" and that in every social situation we wear a metaphorical mask which conceals or promotes certain aspects of my personality. If i'm socalising with my friends i wear a certain mask, if i'm in a formal work situation i'll wear another mask, and another when i'm with my family or on the internet as i am now. When you're flirting with someone you're interested in, you need to wear a mask which highlights what makes you interesting to them- your skills, hobbies and interests- as well as one that draws attention to the positive aspects of your character- be friendly, warm, humourous and confident and "cool" (for want of a better word). Being fit, healthy, in shape and dressing well also helps a lot naturally.

 

[Darken12]

I laughed.

I particularly liked the parody of the usual mangling, mutilating and puppeteering of biology. And all the hilarious evopsych satire.

 

[BanicRhys]

My entire life I have always had many male friends, many more than female friends and have found out that every damn one of them somehow thought I was " the one" the one person on the planet that was their "soul mate". It is very hard on a person to go through this so many times, I know people may think that unsympathetic to the guys being rejected here, but it is also hard on the person to find out that the reason they wanted to hang with you was because they wanted to have sex with you, not just because they enjoyed spending time with you and for no other reason. It is a matter of respect that they give their male friends, that you feel is lost just because they are sexually attracted to you. Honestly after so many guys doing this, it makes you just want to keep your distance from befriending them at all because it never leads anywhere good down the road. It makes you leary of becoming friends with guys at all because you don't know if they are somehow going to claim "you led them on" later on and just get hurt when they find out that you are not interested in a sexual relationship with them.

Now, while I'm not really the most experienced person when it comes to relationships, I've never had a girlfriend per se (hell, I've never really had any super close friends at all), but I'm going to try to put on my best pair of empathy trousers for this one.

In my experience, at least, I usually grow attracted to my female friends because I enjoy spending time with them, not the other way around. Still, I'm hardly a prime example of the typical male, but I still feel that this needed to be said.

Of course, on the other hand, one of my female friends seems to be in the exact same predicament as you, so... whatever.

 

[Lilani]

Well I have already gotten 4 other messages about this. All I can say is that yours is probably no different than the rest of them.

Than the rest of whom? And in what way am I not different from them?

 

[Ratties]

Well I have already gotten 4 other messages about this. All I can say is that yours is probably no different than the rest of them.

Than the rest of whom? And in what way am I not different from them?

Do I really have to tell you. Ah christ on a cracker. Really don't need everybody's views showed down my throat. Most of you people just like to throw around insults and act like you are open minded. Most you are not. As for whom, the other people that messaged me.

 

[Lilani]

Do I really have to tell you. Ah christ on a cracker. Really don't need everybody's views showed down my throat. Most of you people just like to throw around insults and act like you are open minded. Most you are not. As for whom, the other people that messaged me.

I admit I may have been a bit pejorative in my wording, but that doesn't change the fact that your theory on female friendships is simply not based in reality. That type of female you described--the kind that "settles" on a friendship with a guy because she's ruled him out as a partner--does not exist. That simply isn't how females or people in general function, at the most basic sociological level.

 

[Ratties]

Do I really have to tell you. Ah christ on a cracker. Really don't need everybody's views showed down my throat. Most of you people just like to throw around insults and act like you are open minded. Most you are not. As for whom, the other people that messaged me.

I admit I may have been a bit pejorative in my wording, but that doesn't change the fact that your theory on female friendships is simply not based in reality. That type of female you described--the kind that "settles" on a friendship with a guy because she's ruled him out as a partner--does not exist. That simply isn't how females or people in general function, at the most basic sociological level.

Did meet 3 females in my lifetime that wanted to date me before they wanted to be my friend. All they wanted to do was date, so yeah....

 

[Lilani]

Did meet 3 females in my lifetime that wanted to date me before they wanted to be my friend. All they wanted to do was date, so yeah....

I don't exactly understand how this correlates with what you said before. The paragraph that set all this off is this:

Well I don't make friends with girls because I think it's pointless. Alright if I just want to hang out and have a good time, I will do it with other guys. Let me be blunt about this. Think girls can be fun to hang out with as well. Find the idea of a girl just wanting to be just a friend kind of harsh. Likes everything about me. All we do all day is joke around and have a good time. Know that there is a part of every guy that knows that she thinks you are not attractive enough to date. Never tell you that. If that is not case, heres another. If you are just a back up guy she has around in case all the other guys don't work out. Got to say that it makes me sound like a insecure asshole. A girl would just say, "hey I am not attracted to you, do you want to be friends?" Know it's harsh, the truth hurts.

What I'm reading here is, "I can't stand to be friends with girls because sometimes I like them and if they want to be just friends, that hurts, so I'm swearing off all of them."

The situation you just described is, "3 females in my lifetime that wanted to date me before they wanted to be my friend." That is the exact opposite of what you just said there. The problem there isn't that the girl wants to be just friends, it's that you want to be just friends. And apparently this didn't end well so suddenly those three females in your head represent all of the females in the world and you are doing your damnedest to make sure nobody brings you back to reality.

...I think, anyway. Re-reading this, I really can't tell what you're getting at.

 

[Smeatza]

Well, the desperate and social clueless who are upset that the universe hasn't made that girl they like fall in love with them. You can be as desperate and clueless as you like, but once you start getting whiny, entitled and/or creepy, pity is going to be outweighed by annoyance, at best.

Well I think that's callous and cold hearted.
Whiny and creepy are subjective terms anyway, I might think it's whiny and creepy for the person who wrote the article to feel so entitled to male friends.
And that term "entitled" get's thrown around so easily these days. Just because somebody is disappointed, it doesn't mean they felt entitled. Hopeful would be a fairer (but less sensational) word to use for many of these poor bastards.

I see from a few of your other posts that you're a bit of a feminist.
Surely you can't appreciate it when people call the feminist plight "whiny, entitled and/or creepy."
Yet you're so quick to dismiss the plight of others.
It's selfish.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

I really don?t envy women . much more then guys you have to deal with never knowing if a relationship is genuine or if the guy is just trying to get into your pants. this obviously isn?t exclusive to you but guys much more often the initiators of these things. Having a lot of gay friends kind of woke me up to this, It?s not fun to realize that?s someone you thought was a friend you can talk to is just listening because he is expecting something at the end of it .

Well that's a bit of a generalization. Sometimes people just develope feelings when they shouldn't. Saying it's all about sex is inaccurate.

It's painful for everyone involved when someone develops feelings for someone else and they don't feel the same way, and it's no ones fault necessarily. All you can really do is be honest about how you feel. And if the friendship can't continue well, that's painful but it's how it has to be.

People who act like they're your friend partially or entirely because they expect to get something out of it and not just for the sake of friendship can go right ahead and fuck themselves though.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Well, the desperate and social clueless who are upset that the universe hasn't made that girl they like fall in love with them. You can be as desperate and clueless as you like, but once you start getting whiny, entitled and/or creepy, pity is going to be outweighed by annoyance, at best.

Well I think that's callous and cold hearted.
Whiny and creepy are subjective terms anyway, I might think it's whiny and creepy for the person who wrote the article to feel so entitled to male friends.
And that term "entitled" get's thrown around so easily these days. Just because somebody is disappointed, it doesn't mean they felt entitled. Hopeful would be a fairer (but less sensational) word to use for many of these poor bastards.

I see from a few of your other posts that you're a bit of a feminist.
Surely you can't appreciate it when people call the feminist plight "whiny, entitled and/or creepy."
Yet you're so quick to dismiss the plight of others.
It's selfish.

So...you're equating social problems and sexism faced by women, to a woman not fancying a guy? Those are not the same.

And "entitled" isn't an unreasonable word to use. There's a difference between someone disappointed that a woman didn't fancy them as they'd hoped, and someone upset that she didn't fancy them as they thought they were obliged to.

 

[Smeatza]

So...you're equating social problems and sexism faced by women, to a woman not fancying a guy? Those are not the same.

No two problems are the same.
So it's a good job I wasn't "equating social problems and sexism faced by women to a woman not fancying a guy"
I was equating the reactions to them.
And I was spot on.

And "entitled" isn't an unreasonable word to use. There's a difference between someone disappointed that a woman didn't fancy them as they'd hoped, and someone upset that she didn't fancy them as they thought they were obliged to.

How do you tell the difference? Especially over an internet forum? What qualifies you to make that call? Are you a psychiatrist? Do you specialise in psychiatric interpretation of online interactions?

For example, entitlement and confused arrogance would be entirely indistinguishable in the scenario we're discussing. But you would automatically assume it's the former rather than the latter.
Probably because it's easier to hate than it is to actually learn about others.