Goth Mercenaries

[Shjade]

Yeah, but you and Yahtzee are saying that your enjoyment of any activity in a group is entirely dependent on how much fun your friends are.... you're just as well off to spend an evening washing dishes with your girlfriend as having a steamy night of sex, playing Borderlands with a gamer buddy is just as enjoyable as playing Damnation.

I don't know what Damnation is so I can't comment on that comparison. As to the other...I'm not sure what to make of that. Yes, spending an evening washing dishes (which must be taking place in a MASSIVE kitchen to take all night, I guess?) with your girlfriend, assuming you two actually get along, can be as enjoyable as spending the evening with sex. Is it enjoyable in the same way? Not unless you're drying the dishes with your genitals - I guess you could be into that sort of thing, who am I to judge - no, but it can be equally enjoyable in a different fashion. Intellectually, perhaps, as you converse over the cleaning experience. Washing dishes is just what you're doing; having good company as opposed to bad or no company makes it worthwhile. Likewise, if that steamy night of sex is with a soon-to-be-ex whom you hate and is steamy because the pipes are leaking and it's incredibly humid and everything is sticky and horrible, well, I imagine the night with the nice girlfriend and the dishes would start looking pretty shiny by comparison.

Really, what kind of comparison was that anyway?

Unless you are a time traveller from 1990 you should remember being subjected to that whole "shovel any shit out the door as long as it's got multiplayer everyone will love it" design concept until we finally beat it to death.

Considering Borderlands exists I think you're being optimistic about the concept being dead.

 

[RobinHood3000]

I have to disagree with the idea that all games should be judged on their single-player alone. Until AI can be made adequately convincing that you can't tell the difference, playing with other people (be they strangers or friends) offers an appreciably different gaming experience to just playing single-player, potentially changing both the tone (games tend to be more light-hearted with other people around) and actual gameplay styles, which may or may not be reinforced by mechanics. Even predominantly single-player games change when people are watching - I play GTA IV differently when I'm playing by myself vs. when I'm trying to entertain friends by teaching Niko how to fly.

Not to presume to tell Yahtzee what he believes, but some of what he's said in reviews (Modern Warfare 2 and Left 4 Dead) seem to suggest that he has experienced games differently with other people than alone. Of course, as has been mentioned, multiplayer and massively multiplayer are often very different beasts in terms of how and with whom you interact, and I haven't played enough MMOs to be able to comment on the subject, so I'm just going to leave that particular beast right where it is.

 

[HuCast]

I had much fun with Borderlands-even in the single player mode. Sure-after 20 hours it gets a little boring and has some issues but I also played PSO or Sacred2 offline just to level up my chara or find new loot-it all depends on what you expect and how drunk you are.
In the end its a game like mercenaries2, PSO or StarWars Battlefront-you can run around by yourself and kill stuff or play coop with partners in an relative open world and thats ok for me

 

[Zydrate]

This one didn't seem as rant-happy. It was like reading something a lot more normal than Yahtzee usually is.
It was a good read, though.

 

[gillebro]

But here comes the shameful secret part: I haven't actually player Team Fortress 2 since they brought out the first class-specific update, just under two years ago.

Yahtzee made a typo, bring on the end of the world.

Did you notice the other one? He spelt "favourite" without the 'u', so it was "favorite". Not good Yahtzee, not good...

 

[Nick Angelici]

I'm glad to see Im not the only one who seems to dislike partying or grouping in wow. I would enjoy it if I actually had a good group of friends whether they be online or off who were ready to work together or actually help rather than just give me shit or not talk during a quest.

I prefer playing the SCHTHACK server of Phantasy Star Online Blue Burst because that game forces you to be social, actually, it invites you with cookies and cake. the game is relaxed and fun without the boring scavenger hunts and goes straight to KILL SHIT TO GET BETTER SHIT REPEAT PROCCESS. but you know what, it works and its fun.

Having 4 people makes it easy to just say hello and chat, all while a boss the size of a skyscraper is being killed. Weapons dont take YEARS to get and lvling is not long and tedious thanks to a quest called Towards the Future, which is repeatable.

I hate playing long tedious RPGs because of how alone I feel in a HUGE world, at least in WoW Im not alone but I feel alone, and annoyed that a guy who just passed me got all his stuff in a week, and Im still lvl 12.

Overall if people were more productive in games like WoW rather than just playing I would feel Like Im in a actual world rather than a scavenger hunt game at 15 a month

 

[AnonymouZero]

i think i finally understand why i like mmorpgs, when i don't really like to party and join guilds... xD

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

I don't know what Damnation is so I can't comment on that comparison. As to the other...I'm not sure what to make of that. Yes, spending an evening washing dishes (which must be taking place in a MASSIVE kitchen to take all night, I guess?) with your girlfriend, assuming you two actually get along, can be as enjoyable as spending the evening with sex.

Look Damnation up on Metacritic if you haven't had it inflicted on you to any degree. The rest is horribly sad, bro. You must hold her purse a lot.

 

[A1]

I guess that's what makes a good game different from a great game. Namely the ability to make a long-lasting impression. I guess one such example of a great game by this token is Final Fantasy VII.

I never played FF7, and after hearing so many people say why its awsome, have no intention, to me its a boring story with bad graphics that people dont want to admit is an overdone story with bad graphics.

As for this, kings rings true I think for time to time. I usually play mmos try and meet people, usually fail as I never played well enough and got kicked out and was to cheap to play any mmo really besides Guildwars

Unbelievable.

Boring story? What kind of a claim is that coming from someone who hasn't actually played the game? It's like when Bob Dole criticized the movie Trainspotting before admitting that he hadn't actually seen the movie.

Overdone with bad graphics? Oh come on. This is a game that was from TWO GENERATIONS AGO. Judging it by today's standards is totally unfair and inappropriate.

 

[A1]

I guess that's what makes a good game different from a great game. Namely the ability to make a long-lasting impression. I guess one such example of a great game by this token is Final Fantasy VII.

I never played FF7, and after hearing so many people say why its awsome, have no intention, to me its a boring story with bad graphics that people dont want to admit is an overdone story with bad graphics.

As for this, kings rings true I think for time to time. I usually play mmos try and meet people, usually fail as I never played well enough and got kicked out and was to cheap to play any mmo really besides Guildwars

Unbelievable.

Boring story? What kind of a claim is that coming from someone who hasn't actually played the game? It's like when Bob Dole criticized the movie Trainspotting before admitting that he hadn't actually seen the movie.

Overdone with bad graphics? Oh come on. This is a game that was from TWO GENERATIONS AGO. Judging it by today's standards is totally unfair and inappropriate.

I know the story, My friends who are huge fans of it rave about it and tell me all these details thinking It will make me love the game, and makes me realise its about as unorginal and uninteresting to me as they get. As for the graphics, sorry but to me they are bad judged against games of its generation and older. Mario 64 I like the looks of, SuperSmash Bros, the Zelda games, and on the Snes, Hell I like the looks of the older Snes FF games better.

Yea i think its just a game that people dont want to admit was just run of the mill at best, for some it may be great for me it looks boring and unplayable

Sorry but that's not good enough. I know from experience that experiencing something first hand can be very different from simply hearing about it. This is perhaps one of the reasons why professional reviewers and critics of stuff like video games and movies actually bother to play the game or watch the movie before giving their feedback.

And as for the graphics the words that stand out for me here are "to me" and "I like". First of all the games that you mention are from very different genres than FFVII so the comparisons aren't particularly plausible or appropriate. Second of all I'm sensing large amounts of subjectivity from you which certainly isn't helping your plausibility, especially when you start bringing up SNES games. SNES games didn't have anything that could compare to FFVII's cutscenes in particular from a technical standpoint. So in other words it seem to be more about not what actually is better but rather what you personally like better. And there's more to it I'm afraid. I also get the impression that the raving of your friends may very well have negatively influenced your opinion of the game. Or more specifically you may have grown at least somewhat sick of hearing about how good it is.

Or in other words you seem to be at least somewhat biased.

Critical acclaim of FFVII has been quite wide and almost universal. It may have at least a few detractors in this area but at least they actually played the game.

I'm sorry but I think it's safe to say that if you want your opinion on the matter to carry any real weight you will have to actually play the game and truly experience it for yourself. Only then can you plausibly and credibly make the claim that it's a bad game.

 

[Shjade]

I don't know what Damnation is so I can't comment on that comparison. As to the other...I'm not sure what to make of that. Yes, spending an evening washing dishes (which must be taking place in a MASSIVE kitchen to take all night, I guess?) with your girlfriend, assuming you two actually get along, can be as enjoyable as spending the evening with sex.

Look Damnation up on Metacritic if you haven't had it inflicted on you to any degree. The rest is horribly sad, bro. You must hold her purse a lot.

Hooray for assumptions. You asked a hypothetical and I responded. It has no bearing on my personal situation.

That you believe there's no enjoyment to be found from sharing with a romantic partner over some unimportant activity suggests a certain lack of emotional development, however. I wish you the best of luck with that.

 

[A1]

I guess that's what makes a good game different from a great game. Namely the ability to make a long-lasting impression. I guess one such example of a great game by this token is Final Fantasy VII.

I never played FF7, and after hearing so many people say why its awsome, have no intention, to me its a boring story with bad graphics that people dont want to admit is an overdone story with bad graphics.

As for this, kings rings true I think for time to time. I usually play mmos try and meet people, usually fail as I never played well enough and got kicked out and was to cheap to play any mmo really besides Guildwars

Unbelievable.

Boring story? What kind of a claim is that coming from someone who hasn't actually played the game? It's like when Bob Dole criticized the movie Trainspotting before admitting that he hadn't actually seen the movie.

Overdone with bad graphics? Oh come on. This is a game that was from TWO GENERATIONS AGO. Judging it by today's standards is totally unfair and inappropriate.

I know the story, My friends who are huge fans of it rave about it and tell me all these details thinking It will make me love the game, and makes me realise its about as unorginal and uninteresting to me as they get. As for the graphics, sorry but to me they are bad judged against games of its generation and older. Mario 64 I like the looks of, SuperSmash Bros, the Zelda games, and on the Snes, Hell I like the looks of the older Snes FF games better.

Yea i think its just a game that people dont want to admit was just run of the mill at best, for some it may be great for me it looks boring and unplayable

Sorry but that's not good enough. I know from experience that experiencing something first hand can be very different from simply hearing about it. This is perhaps one of the reasons why professional reviewers and critics of stuff like video games and movies actually bother to play the game or watch the movie before giving their feedback.

And as for the graphics the words that stand out for me here are "to me" and "I like". First of all the games that you mention are from very different genres than FFVII so the comparisons aren't particularly plausible or appropriate. Second of all I'm sensing large amounts of subjectivity from you which certainly isn't helping your plausibility, especially when you start bringing up SNES games. SNES games didn't have anything that could compare to FFVII's cutscenes in particular from a technical standpoint. So in other words it seem to be more about not what actually is better but rather what you personally like better. And there's more to it I'm afraid. I also get the impression that the raving of your friends may very well have negatively influenced your opinion of the game. Or more specifically you may have grown at least somewhat sick of hearing about how good it is.

Or in other words you seem to be at least somewhat biased.

Critical acclaim of FFVII has been quite wide and almost universal. It may have at least a few detractors in this area but at least they actually played the game.

I'm sorry but I think it's safe to say that if you want your opinion on the matter to carry any real weight you will have to actually play the game and truly experience it for yourself. Only then can you plausibly and credibly make the claim that it's a bad game.

You seem to have the opinion im trying to sway anyones opinion, I just know that from my standpoint, if someone says its like FF7, I know that game is gonig to be bad, with a bland story and nothing of interest to me. I have yet to see one person say one reason that shows its good, every review ive seen of it gives me the same opinion, this game is not for me, its crap. Its slow to start, I find that annoying, its story is unoriginal, I find this game is nothing but nastolgia gone wrong, and I would bet money I would not have the same impact on me as it probly did on someone who played it when it first came out.

Okay, now you seem to be projecting. I have no such opinion. Even though I like the game I'm not bothered by your opinion largely because you haven't actually played the game. As long as that essential piece of the puzzle is missing I think it's safe to say that you're never going to have any real credibility or plausibility on the issue.

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

Hooray for assumptions. You asked a hypothetical and I responded. It has no bearing on my personal situation.

You didn't respond, you made up a strawman to talk to instead of addressing the point of my post: given a specific partner, various activities are more or less enjoyable by nature or (in the case of game vs game comparisons) by design. Borderlands did a lot design-wise to make co-op fun in the first place and replayable afterwards.

If you feel like coming up with a point worth more than a dick joke in response, go ahead.

 

[Misnomer]

I was one of those Fanboys that didn't reply to the Borderlands review. I think for some of us it just wasn't worth it to be shouted down by the Yahtzee sycophants. We come here listening to rants about how creativity is the most important thing in games and how you are sick of playing sequels, but you never once mentioned the artistic style or the fact that this pushed the boundaries for FPS games in a new direction. How do you respond to a person who doesn't seem to engage with games in an deeper way anymore? I was starting to question his even having played games after the Torchlight review, overlooking the ability to hold down your mouse button for attack was really weak. Overlooking Borderlands art style, wacky humor, and weapon design clearly shows that he not only missed the point...but blatantly ignored it. Yes, the game was a loot fest with an incredibly weak story, yet that is not the compelling part of the game at all.

Here's one hint. Borderlands plays better the first time in singleplayer because you can take all your time to figure out your loot, read the side quest logs, listen to the tapes, and generally get a feel for the game. Co-op is a rush just like in Diablo 2 unless you are with friends just playing for the first time.

More and more Yahtzee is becoming an antiquated source of game criticism. He cries the foul of FEAR2 and claims that his favorite genres are dying, but you can't cry for originality and expect to get your old games every time. TF2 is the best supported PC FPS game out there. This is huge for the MP community that there are always rebalanced and free new content. You don't like the big number games but you want us to be on TF4 by now? Yes I understand that nitpicking is his job, but somewhere in those smug reviews of old there was hope at educating the masses about great video game design.

Yahtzee has lost that and just seems to want everything to be an action game where he can be badass...

Congrats, you are now part of the problem. Fear not, EA and Activision are always looking to make more reiterative games for gamers like you.

 

[AceDiamond]

I'd like to point out a bit of a counterpoint about "all games must stand on single-player", and in fact I'm going to lead into that by pointing out what I believe to be the year that single-player began to be viewed as not as important for games that provided both multiplayer and single-player experiences.

The year was 1999. Game of the year for 1999? Homeworld. A game with a great story to be sure, but the single-player experience was a grind of gigantic proportions, and generally was viewed by reviewers as an extended tutorial to multiplayer. the other big games of the year included Quake III: Arena, and Unreal Tournament. Games which were designed as multiplayer experiences almost exclusively.

I think what separates these three examples from Borderlands, however, is that Homeworld had (again) a great story while Borderlands does not, and UT and Q3A were more easily understood as multiplayer games and they weren't expecting stories from them.

Of course, my theory could be entirely wrong seeing as how the other game of the year for 1999 was Half-Life, one of the first FPS games to have a comprehensive plot and succeed.

 

[A1]

I guess that's what makes a good game different from a great game. Namely the ability to make a long-lasting impression. I guess one such example of a great game by this token is Final Fantasy VII.

I never played FF7, and after hearing so many people say why its awsome, have no intention, to me its a boring story with bad graphics that people dont want to admit is an overdone story with bad graphics.

As for this, kings rings true I think for time to time. I usually play mmos try and meet people, usually fail as I never played well enough and got kicked out and was to cheap to play any mmo really besides Guildwars

Unbelievable.

Boring story? What kind of a claim is that coming from someone who hasn't actually played the game? It's like when Bob Dole criticized the movie Trainspotting before admitting that he hadn't actually seen the movie.

Overdone with bad graphics? Oh come on. This is a game that was from TWO GENERATIONS AGO. Judging it by today's standards is totally unfair and inappropriate.

I know the story, My friends who are huge fans of it rave about it and tell me all these details thinking It will make me love the game, and makes me realise its about as unorginal and uninteresting to me as they get. As for the graphics, sorry but to me they are bad judged against games of its generation and older. Mario 64 I like the looks of, SuperSmash Bros, the Zelda games, and on the Snes, Hell I like the looks of the older Snes FF games better.

Yea i think its just a game that people dont want to admit was just run of the mill at best, for some it may be great for me it looks boring and unplayable

Sorry but that's not good enough. I know from experience that experiencing something first hand can be very different from simply hearing about it. This is perhaps one of the reasons why professional reviewers and critics of stuff like video games and movies actually bother to play the game or watch the movie before giving their feedback.

And as for the graphics the words that stand out for me here are "to me" and "I like". First of all the games that you mention are from very different genres than FFVII so the comparisons aren't particularly plausible or appropriate. Second of all I'm sensing large amounts of subjectivity from you which certainly isn't helping your plausibility, especially when you start bringing up SNES games. SNES games didn't have anything that could compare to FFVII's cutscenes in particular from a technical standpoint. So in other words it seem to be more about not what actually is better but rather what you personally like better. And there's more to it I'm afraid. I also get the impression that the raving of your friends may very well have negatively influenced your opinion of the game. Or more specifically you may have grown at least somewhat sick of hearing about how good it is.

Or in other words you seem to be at least somewhat biased.

Critical acclaim of FFVII has been quite wide and almost universal. It may have at least a few detractors in this area but at least they actually played the game.

I'm sorry but I think it's safe to say that if you want your opinion on the matter to carry any real weight you will have to actually play the game and truly experience it for yourself. Only then can you plausibly and credibly make the claim that it's a bad game.

You seem to have the opinion im trying to sway anyones opinion, I just know that from my standpoint, if someone says its like FF7, I know that game is gonig to be bad, with a bland story and nothing of interest to me. I have yet to see one person say one reason that shows its good, every review ive seen of it gives me the same opinion, this game is not for me, its crap. Its slow to start, I find that annoying, its story is unoriginal, I find this game is nothing but nastolgia gone wrong, and I would bet money I would not have the same impact on me as it probly did on someone who played it when it first came out.

Okay, now you seem to be projecting. I have no such opinion. Even though I like the game I'm not bothered by your opinion largely because you haven't actually played the game. As long as that essential piece of the puzzle is missing I think it's safe to say that you're never going to have any real credibility or plausibility on the issue.

yet it bothers you deeply I dont like it

Very funny. Either you misread my previous post or you're just saying that to spite me. Either way it doesn't seem to reflect particularly well on you I'm afraid. If you want to bother someone who likes the game then I would suggest you write a detailed, comprehensive, and insightful critique of the game. But most importantly you should actually play the game.

 

[A1]

I guess that's what makes a good game different from a great game. Namely the ability to make a long-lasting impression. I guess one such example of a great game by this token is Final Fantasy VII.

I never played FF7, and after hearing so many people say why its awsome, have no intention, to me its a boring story with bad graphics that people dont want to admit is an overdone story with bad graphics.

As for this, kings rings true I think for time to time. I usually play mmos try and meet people, usually fail as I never played well enough and got kicked out and was to cheap to play any mmo really besides Guildwars

Unbelievable.

Boring story? What kind of a claim is that coming from someone who hasn't actually played the game? It's like when Bob Dole criticized the movie Trainspotting before admitting that he hadn't actually seen the movie.

Overdone with bad graphics? Oh come on. This is a game that was from TWO GENERATIONS AGO. Judging it by today's standards is totally unfair and inappropriate.

I know the story, My friends who are huge fans of it rave about it and tell me all these details thinking It will make me love the game, and makes me realise its about as unorginal and uninteresting to me as they get. As for the graphics, sorry but to me they are bad judged against games of its generation and older. Mario 64 I like the looks of, SuperSmash Bros, the Zelda games, and on the Snes, Hell I like the looks of the older Snes FF games better.

Yea i think its just a game that people dont want to admit was just run of the mill at best, for some it may be great for me it looks boring and unplayable

Sorry but that's not good enough. I know from experience that experiencing something first hand can be very different from simply hearing about it. This is perhaps one of the reasons why professional reviewers and critics of stuff like video games and movies actually bother to play the game or watch the movie before giving their feedback.

And as for the graphics the words that stand out for me here are "to me" and "I like". First of all the games that you mention are from very different genres than FFVII so the comparisons aren't particularly plausible or appropriate. Second of all I'm sensing large amounts of subjectivity from you which certainly isn't helping your plausibility, especially when you start bringing up SNES games. SNES games didn't have anything that could compare to FFVII's cutscenes in particular from a technical standpoint. So in other words it seem to be more about not what actually is better but rather what you personally like better. And there's more to it I'm afraid. I also get the impression that the raving of your friends may very well have negatively influenced your opinion of the game. Or more specifically you may have grown at least somewhat sick of hearing about how good it is.

Or in other words you seem to be at least somewhat biased.

Critical acclaim of FFVII has been quite wide and almost universal. It may have at least a few detractors in this area but at least they actually played the game.

I'm sorry but I think it's safe to say that if you want your opinion on the matter to carry any real weight you will have to actually play the game and truly experience it for yourself. Only then can you plausibly and credibly make the claim that it's a bad game.

You seem to have the opinion im trying to sway anyones opinion, I just know that from my standpoint, if someone says its like FF7, I know that game is gonig to be bad, with a bland story and nothing of interest to me. I have yet to see one person say one reason that shows its good, every review ive seen of it gives me the same opinion, this game is not for me, its crap. Its slow to start, I find that annoying, its story is unoriginal, I find this game is nothing but nastolgia gone wrong, and I would bet money I would not have the same impact on me as it probly did on someone who played it when it first came out.

Okay, now you seem to be projecting. I have no such opinion. Even though I like the game I'm not bothered by your opinion largely because you haven't actually played the game. As long as that essential piece of the puzzle is missing I think it's safe to say that you're never going to have any real credibility or plausibility on the issue.

yet it bothers you deeply I dont like it

Very funny. Either you misread my previous post or you're just saying that to spite me. Either way it doesn't seem to reflect particularly well on you I'm afraid. If you want to bother someone who likes the game then I would suggest you write a detailed, comprehensive, and insightful critique of the game. But most importantly you should actually play the game.

See if it didnt bother you that I didnt like it, you probloy woudlnt have even bothered on commenting it. No the amount of times you keep responding shows it botheres you. And I wont play it as I will not waste any money on it

How extremely presumptuous of you. I'm responding because I don't like to let challenging and/or confrontational gestures directed at me (or anything resembling them) go unanswered. If someone throws a punch at you it's a very natural response to fight back. So no, what's bothering me is not your opinion. It's your apparent insistence on getting in my face about it. And who said anything about spending money on the game? Just borrow it from one of your raving friends, play it while visiting them, or see if their willing to give it to you as a gift or favor or something.

 

[A1]

I guess that's what makes a good game different from a great game. Namely the ability to make a long-lasting impression. I guess one such example of a great game by this token is Final Fantasy VII.

I never played FF7, and after hearing so many people say why its awsome, have no intention, to me its a boring story with bad graphics that people dont want to admit is an overdone story with bad graphics.

As for this, kings rings true I think for time to time. I usually play mmos try and meet people, usually fail as I never played well enough and got kicked out and was to cheap to play any mmo really besides Guildwars

Unbelievable.

Boring story? What kind of a claim is that coming from someone who hasn't actually played the game? It's like when Bob Dole criticized the movie Trainspotting before admitting that he hadn't actually seen the movie.

Overdone with bad graphics? Oh come on. This is a game that was from TWO GENERATIONS AGO. Judging it by today's standards is totally unfair and inappropriate.

I know the story, My friends who are huge fans of it rave about it and tell me all these details thinking It will make me love the game, and makes me realise its about as unorginal and uninteresting to me as they get. As for the graphics, sorry but to me they are bad judged against games of its generation and older. Mario 64 I like the looks of, SuperSmash Bros, the Zelda games, and on the Snes, Hell I like the looks of the older Snes FF games better.

Yea i think its just a game that people dont want to admit was just run of the mill at best, for some it may be great for me it looks boring and unplayable

Sorry but that's not good enough. I know from experience that experiencing something first hand can be very different from simply hearing about it. This is perhaps one of the reasons why professional reviewers and critics of stuff like video games and movies actually bother to play the game or watch the movie before giving their feedback.

And as for the graphics the words that stand out for me here are "to me" and "I like". First of all the games that you mention are from very different genres than FFVII so the comparisons aren't particularly plausible or appropriate. Second of all I'm sensing large amounts of subjectivity from you which certainly isn't helping your plausibility, especially when you start bringing up SNES games. SNES games didn't have anything that could compare to FFVII's cutscenes in particular from a technical standpoint. So in other words it seem to be more about not what actually is better but rather what you personally like better. And there's more to it I'm afraid. I also get the impression that the raving of your friends may very well have negatively influenced your opinion of the game. Or more specifically you may have grown at least somewhat sick of hearing about how good it is.

Or in other words you seem to be at least somewhat biased.

Critical acclaim of FFVII has been quite wide and almost universal. It may have at least a few detractors in this area but at least they actually played the game.

I'm sorry but I think it's safe to say that if you want your opinion on the matter to carry any real weight you will have to actually play the game and truly experience it for yourself. Only then can you plausibly and credibly make the claim that it's a bad game.

You seem to have the opinion im trying to sway anyones opinion, I just know that from my standpoint, if someone says its like FF7, I know that game is gonig to be bad, with a bland story and nothing of interest to me. I have yet to see one person say one reason that shows its good, every review ive seen of it gives me the same opinion, this game is not for me, its crap. Its slow to start, I find that annoying, its story is unoriginal, I find this game is nothing but nastolgia gone wrong, and I would bet money I would not have the same impact on me as it probly did on someone who played it when it first came out.

Okay, now you seem to be projecting. I have no such opinion. Even though I like the game I'm not bothered by your opinion largely because you haven't actually played the game. As long as that essential piece of the puzzle is missing I think it's safe to say that you're never going to have any real credibility or plausibility on the issue.

yet it bothers you deeply I dont like it

Very funny. Either you misread my previous post or you're just saying that to spite me. Either way it doesn't seem to reflect particularly well on you I'm afraid. If you want to bother someone who likes the game then I would suggest you write a detailed, comprehensive, and insightful critique of the game. But most importantly you should actually play the game.

See if it didnt bother you that I didnt like it, you probloy woudlnt have even bothered on commenting it. No the amount of times you keep responding shows it botheres you. And I wont play it as I will not waste any money on it

How extremely presumptuous of you. I'm responding because I don't like to let challenging and/or confrontational gestures directed at me (or anything resembling them) go unanswered. If someone throws a punch at you it's a very natural response to fight back. So no, what's bothering me is not your opinion. It's your apparent insistence on getting in my face about it. And who said anything about spending money on the game? Just borrow it from one of your raving friends, play it while visiting them, or see if their willing to give it to you as a gift or favor or something.

I dont believe nay have it any more as its age has lead to many being destroyed, or them moving out. How ever I was not attacking you, simply commenting on that I dont think FF7 is very good, and you have changed this opinion zero, I personally have no interest of changing your opinion, while you clearly wish to change mine.

Clearly? You continue to be presumptuous. It doesn't matter much to me what you think of the game. It won't make the slightest bit of difference. I was simply defending the game, which was not a particularly hard thing to do considering that you haven't been particularly skillful in attacking it. Rather you've mostly just been repeating the idea that you don't personally like the the game. And there's Gamefly by the way.

 

[A1]

I guess that's what makes a good game different from a great game. Namely the ability to make a long-lasting impression. I guess one such example of a great game by this token is Final Fantasy VII.

I never played FF7, and after hearing so many people say why its awsome, have no intention, to me its a boring story with bad graphics that people dont want to admit is an overdone story with bad graphics.

As for this, kings rings true I think for time to time. I usually play mmos try and meet people, usually fail as I never played well enough and got kicked out and was to cheap to play any mmo really besides Guildwars

Unbelievable.

Boring story? What kind of a claim is that coming from someone who hasn't actually played the game? It's like when Bob Dole criticized the movie Trainspotting before admitting that he hadn't actually seen the movie.

Overdone with bad graphics? Oh come on. This is a game that was from TWO GENERATIONS AGO. Judging it by today's standards is totally unfair and inappropriate.

I know the story, My friends who are huge fans of it rave about it and tell me all these details thinking It will make me love the game, and makes me realise its about as unorginal and uninteresting to me as they get. As for the graphics, sorry but to me they are bad judged against games of its generation and older. Mario 64 I like the looks of, SuperSmash Bros, the Zelda games, and on the Snes, Hell I like the looks of the older Snes FF games better.

Yea i think its just a game that people dont want to admit was just run of the mill at best, for some it may be great for me it looks boring and unplayable

Sorry but that's not good enough. I know from experience that experiencing something first hand can be very different from simply hearing about it. This is perhaps one of the reasons why professional reviewers and critics of stuff like video games and movies actually bother to play the game or watch the movie before giving their feedback.

And as for the graphics the words that stand out for me here are "to me" and "I like". First of all the games that you mention are from very different genres than FFVII so the comparisons aren't particularly plausible or appropriate. Second of all I'm sensing large amounts of subjectivity from you which certainly isn't helping your plausibility, especially when you start bringing up SNES games. SNES games didn't have anything that could compare to FFVII's cutscenes in particular from a technical standpoint. So in other words it seem to be more about not what actually is better but rather what you personally like better. And there's more to it I'm afraid. I also get the impression that the raving of your friends may very well have negatively influenced your opinion of the game. Or more specifically you may have grown at least somewhat sick of hearing about how good it is.

Or in other words you seem to be at least somewhat biased.

Critical acclaim of FFVII has been quite wide and almost universal. It may have at least a few detractors in this area but at least they actually played the game.

I'm sorry but I think it's safe to say that if you want your opinion on the matter to carry any real weight you will have to actually play the game and truly experience it for yourself. Only then can you plausibly and credibly make the claim that it's a bad game.

You seem to have the opinion im trying to sway anyones opinion, I just know that from my standpoint, if someone says its like FF7, I know that game is gonig to be bad, with a bland story and nothing of interest to me. I have yet to see one person say one reason that shows its good, every review ive seen of it gives me the same opinion, this game is not for me, its crap. Its slow to start, I find that annoying, its story is unoriginal, I find this game is nothing but nastolgia gone wrong, and I would bet money I would not have the same impact on me as it probly did on someone who played it when it first came out.

Okay, now you seem to be projecting. I have no such opinion. Even though I like the game I'm not bothered by your opinion largely because you haven't actually played the game. As long as that essential piece of the puzzle is missing I think it's safe to say that you're never going to have any real credibility or plausibility on the issue.

yet it bothers you deeply I dont like it

Very funny. Either you misread my previous post or you're just saying that to spite me. Either way it doesn't seem to reflect particularly well on you I'm afraid. If you want to bother someone who likes the game then I would suggest you write a detailed, comprehensive, and insightful critique of the game. But most importantly you should actually play the game.

See if it didnt bother you that I didnt like it, you probloy woudlnt have even bothered on commenting it. No the amount of times you keep responding shows it botheres you. And I wont play it as I will not waste any money on it

How extremely presumptuous of you. I'm responding because I don't like to let challenging and/or confrontational gestures directed at me (or anything resembling them) go unanswered. If someone throws a punch at you it's a very natural response to fight back. So no, what's bothering me is not your opinion. It's your apparent insistence on getting in my face about it. And who said anything about spending money on the game? Just borrow it from one of your raving friends, play it while visiting them, or see if their willing to give it to you as a gift or favor or something.

I dont believe nay have it any more as its age has lead to many being destroyed, or them moving out. How ever I was not attacking you, simply commenting on that I dont think FF7 is very good, and you have changed this opinion zero, I personally have no interest of changing your opinion, while you clearly wish to change mine.

Clearly? You continue to be presumptuous. It doesn't matter much to me what you think of the game. It won't make the slightest bit of difference. I was simply defending the game, which was not a particularly hard thing to do considering that you haven't been particularly skillful in attacking it. Rather you've mostly just been repeating the idea that you don't personally like the the game. And there's Gamefly by the way.

Are you volinteering to pay for me to get gamefly, why thank you, I didnt know you cared
Look, the graphics, even for the time to me look bad, yea I compared games that were of other generas but they were of the same generation, and to me I care more about the graphics during gameplay then of the cutsceans, witch again dont impress me. this is fun i must say

First, the words that leap out at me here are "to me". So now you're essentially just repeating yourself. You've already made it very clear that you personally don't like the game and that's probably never going to change no matter what anyone says. And it would seem that you don't even want that to change. I could effectively counter any way you try to attack the game but I'm not going to even bother because there's no point. And as I said before nothing you say or think is going to make the slightest bit of difference anyway. The game will still have it's wide critical acclaim, it's legions of fans, and it's significant place in video game history. And that's a fact.

Second, now I think you're just starting to troll. And if that's true (and it looks like it is) then that would mean two things. First, it would most likely mean that any realistic chance of anything resembling meaningful debate has essentially gone out the window. Second, if that's true then I'm going to start ignoring you because there's really nothing left to say. It would seem that at this point the best we can do, or perhaps the best I can do, is to simply wash my hands of this rigmarole be done with it.

 

[TheScarecrow]

Weird, that's exactly how I wanted to play WoW when I eventually got it.