Goth Mercenaries

[xqxm]

I like the updates for Team Fortress 2, mainly because they don't affect balance the way you're afraid of, but mainly offer you new and interesting ways to play a class to suit everyone. Besides, i've just played it for a few weeks and i have every single item in the game, save two and the hats.

 

[Shjade]

"If a game is only fun when you and your friends do it together then that's a review of your friends, not the game." <-- exactly the point I was making in the Borderlands review comments.

That's not true. There's no fun in playing hockey single-player... poker, settlers, chess, monopoly... and to be honest there are better or worse games to play with friends. Some aren't enjoyable at all because the mechanics just suck the fun out of doing anything with 'em.

Actually I can think of a number of hockey games that can be fun to play alone, just you against the computer.

What's that you say? You were talking about playing the game in reality? Why, that's almost relevant to a discussion of video games! Not quite, but almost!

Also, varies from person to person. It can be an entertaining exercise to play chess against yourself. Monopoly perhaps not so much, but the randomness of dice does make it possible to have multiple pieces compete without other players involved. Granted it would be a dull game, but then, it IS a dull game - it's only fun with other players because of the other players, not the game (which is the point made above). Hockey alone isn't the same game as hockey with other players, but if you think it can't be fun alone I think you must have never skated on your own for the sheer enjoyment of skating. Never played basketball by yourself narrating a fictional announcer? Never used your imagination to enhance an experience?

Many things can be made fun alone or in a group without the activity itself being an undeniable font of ecstasy.

But yeah, back to the original point: video games. If it's only fun with friends, that's not an indicator of the game being fun - it's a sign that you and your friends have fun together regardless of what you're doing.

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

Hockey alone isn't the same game as hockey with other players, but if you think it can't be fun alone I think you must have never skated on your own for the sheer enjoyment of skating. Never played basketball by yourself narrating a fictional announcer? Never used your imagination to enhance an experience?

Many things can be made fun alone or in a group without the activity itself being an undeniable font of ecstasy.

Yeah, but you and Yahtzee are saying that your enjoyment of any activity in a group is entirely dependent on how much fun your friends are.... you're just as well off to spend an evening washing dishes with your girlfriend as having a steamy night of sex, playing Borderlands with a gamer buddy is just as enjoyable as playing Damnation.

Unless you are a time traveller from 1990 you should remember being subjected to that whole "shovel any shit out the door as long as it's got multiplayer everyone will love it" design concept until we finally beat it to death. It's a load of bull, a game better designed for multiplayer will totally own one that didn't give it much thought. An extremely well-designed multiplayer game is even fun to play with complete strangers online. Borderlands sure as hell doesn't, but the point is that you can't just take how fun a game is alone, multiply it by X and determine how much fun it would be with other people.

 

[Pimppeter2]

"I've compared notes with a few other people who play MMOGs the same way"

This made me laugh my ass off. I can just picture it in my head.

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

I didn't want Yahtzee to do this game because just like all the fan boys on the gearbox forums, we know the story and the single-player experience sucks. The only reason to have him to review this game is because you want to see him try to rip into it better than the guys/gals over at the gearbox forums. I'm sad to see that he did a poor job of that.

I would rather want to see a review of "Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II." If he can't do that then maybe he can do the new installment "Chaos Rising" The single player experience in that game is so completely different from the multi-player element that actually having him review it would have merit.

I think Yahtzee has said it before.
He is useless at RTSs.
I had another comment on that topic, but I forgot it.

He also claims to hate JRPGs and says he won't review them. So why the hell did he do "Valkyria Chronicles"? He also did a review for "Soul Calibur IV" which was a pointless waste.

People probably emailed him and this site to nauseating levels to get him to review games he doesn't have the mindset needed to review it.

 

[theultimateend]

Yahtzee brings up an interesting point. Borderlands WAS popular for a while after it's release before it largely fell by the wayside so to speak.

I guess that's what makes a good game different from a great game. Namely the ability to make a long-lasting impression. I guess one such example of a great game by this token is Final Fantasy VII.

Generally speaking any game that people still talk about a decade later is a fairly good game to at least some degree.

OR it is an absolutely abominable game.

I'd say FF7 is the former rather than the latter, because I'm not a troll. ET for the Atari being the latter.

It's Kinda like how when I started playing SF I barely touched characters like Ryu and Ken. But favoured stranger, less commonly used characters, like Zangief & Dhalsim.

I always want to have some defining characteristic that makes me stand out from the crowd, and so do alot of other people.

I can relate to this... though the flipside of it is that you are therefore allowing the crowd to influence your choice. If you would have more fun playing Ryu, but choose not to due to his popularity, you are handicapping your game experience for the sake of noncomformity. Depending on the situation, I waffle on this one.

I never ENTIRELY let them influence my decisions though, I also use those characters because I like their playing styles and/or the way they control, Zangiefs controls seemed to just come naturally.

I try to take the absolute worst character in any game and learn to be amazing with them. Mainly because it makes victories all the more sweeter.

Reminds me of High School, all those lunches beating other students with Pichu (or just dropping my token on the Random squares). I'm a whore for the underdogs.

 

[Straz]

Snip

Snip

I don't think Yahtzee takes himself nearly as seriously as you think he does...
And I really just think that when you read a game review of his, it is probable that he will claim to hate it to its innermost level (At least to varying levels).
If you take the average of those levels of deep innermost hate, I think you can work out his actual review of the game by viewing an above average review as positive, and a negative one as hate.
It isn't exactly hard.

Edit:
I look back and see that the latter part of that is poorly phrased, but you kids will spare me on that count besides.
You get what I mean anyway...

 

[tetron]

On socializing in MMOGs I'd say it's more than an angry loner being an angry loner where people can see him. If you go to a mall you don't run around socializing with everyone you'd never get anything done. So would you rather go to a mall with nobody in it or a mall with people in it ? And if you say the former then you're an antisocial freak. So the typical normal person would rather go to a mall with people in it, and there's practical reasons for that since popular mall = more stores, better prices, better selection, etc. So there's no reason for this to not hold true in an online game.
On the other side what if you went to the mall and everyone started trying to socialize with you ? It would be awkward and probably unwelcome. This also holds true in MMOGs. There have been plenty of times where the most annoying part about someone asking me a question or asking for help wasn't the question or help they needed but them trying to decide if I was going to snap at them for bothering me.

So while MMOG gameplay isn't the best and yes the people do give it the atmosphere it needs to be interesting even if you don't interact with them. The main thing is that they are there. You may only want to run around solo grinding but you still know that there's people around and that's not all there is for you to do. Also ignoring everyone and just leveling is speeding up you getting to level cap.
Take WoW for example levels 1-79 are really just so blizzard makes more money. Once you hit level cap that's when getting in a guild and doing stuff with other people becomes fun. These aren't just random people that you join up with for one quest but people that you see on a daily basis. Even if you don't join a guild you're going to keep seeing the same people around and getting to know each other even if it's only as "that guy that does dailies around the same time as me". So even the most anti-social loner is going to build connections with people and come out of his shell.

 

[blainemono]

I would like to mention the following fact: yahtzee sucks cocks. seriously. the way he reviews games, he just asks for a cock. THERE ARE COCKS UNSUCKED? I COME FOR THEE! - that's yahtzee's motto. He likes single player? sure, we got it. now what? I tell you what - he will review a thoroughly multiplayer game and gobble up all those hurtful comments that originate from people that doesn't know yahtzee sucks cocks enjoys single player. EVE online? Borderlands? Fuck that, lets review World of Warcraft! Seriously, single player mode sucks ass there, and we all know that's what it's all about! I mean, seriously, he presented us with a fact - he likes to play MMO games all alone, scoffing at bacground people like they are, well, a background, and then bitching about how the game doesn't have more of a non-background content. What's there to say? I know what's to say: cocks! Huge, unadulterated cock-a-suck-a-thoriums!

That's my opinion and i stand firmly by it.

 

[Shjade]

Yeah, but you and Yahtzee are saying that your enjoyment of any activity in a group is entirely dependent on how much fun your friends are.... you're just as well off to spend an evening washing dishes with your girlfriend as having a steamy night of sex, playing Borderlands with a gamer buddy is just as enjoyable as playing Damnation.

I don't know what Damnation is so I can't comment on that comparison. As to the other...I'm not sure what to make of that. Yes, spending an evening washing dishes (which must be taking place in a MASSIVE kitchen to take all night, I guess?) with your girlfriend, assuming you two actually get along, can be as enjoyable as spending the evening with sex. Is it enjoyable in the same way? Not unless you're drying the dishes with your genitals - I guess you could be into that sort of thing, who am I to judge - no, but it can be equally enjoyable in a different fashion. Intellectually, perhaps, as you converse over the cleaning experience. Washing dishes is just what you're doing; having good company as opposed to bad or no company makes it worthwhile. Likewise, if that steamy night of sex is with a soon-to-be-ex whom you hate and is steamy because the pipes are leaking and it's incredibly humid and everything is sticky and horrible, well, I imagine the night with the nice girlfriend and the dishes would start looking pretty shiny by comparison.

Really, what kind of comparison was that anyway?

Unless you are a time traveller from 1990 you should remember being subjected to that whole "shovel any shit out the door as long as it's got multiplayer everyone will love it" design concept until we finally beat it to death.

Considering Borderlands exists I think you're being optimistic about the concept being dead.

 

[RobinHood3000]

I have to disagree with the idea that all games should be judged on their single-player alone. Until AI can be made adequately convincing that you can't tell the difference, playing with other people (be they strangers or friends) offers an appreciably different gaming experience to just playing single-player, potentially changing both the tone (games tend to be more light-hearted with other people around) and actual gameplay styles, which may or may not be reinforced by mechanics. Even predominantly single-player games change when people are watching - I play GTA IV differently when I'm playing by myself vs. when I'm trying to entertain friends by teaching Niko how to fly.

Not to presume to tell Yahtzee what he believes, but some of what he's said in reviews (Modern Warfare 2 and Left 4 Dead) seem to suggest that he has experienced games differently with other people than alone. Of course, as has been mentioned, multiplayer and massively multiplayer are often very different beasts in terms of how and with whom you interact, and I haven't played enough MMOs to be able to comment on the subject, so I'm just going to leave that particular beast right where it is.

 

[HuCast]

I had much fun with Borderlands-even in the single player mode. Sure-after 20 hours it gets a little boring and has some issues but I also played PSO or Sacred2 offline just to level up my chara or find new loot-it all depends on what you expect and how drunk you are.
In the end its a game like mercenaries2, PSO or StarWars Battlefront-you can run around by yourself and kill stuff or play coop with partners in an relative open world and thats ok for me

 

[Zydrate]

This one didn't seem as rant-happy. It was like reading something a lot more normal than Yahtzee usually is.
It was a good read, though.

 

[gillebro]

But here comes the shameful secret part: I haven't actually player Team Fortress 2 since they brought out the first class-specific update, just under two years ago.

Yahtzee made a typo, bring on the end of the world.

Did you notice the other one? He spelt "favourite" without the 'u', so it was "favorite". Not good Yahtzee, not good...

 

[Nick Angelici]

I'm glad to see Im not the only one who seems to dislike partying or grouping in wow. I would enjoy it if I actually had a good group of friends whether they be online or off who were ready to work together or actually help rather than just give me shit or not talk during a quest.

I prefer playing the SCHTHACK server of Phantasy Star Online Blue Burst because that game forces you to be social, actually, it invites you with cookies and cake. the game is relaxed and fun without the boring scavenger hunts and goes straight to KILL SHIT TO GET BETTER SHIT REPEAT PROCCESS. but you know what, it works and its fun.

Having 4 people makes it easy to just say hello and chat, all while a boss the size of a skyscraper is being killed. Weapons dont take YEARS to get and lvling is not long and tedious thanks to a quest called Towards the Future, which is repeatable.

I hate playing long tedious RPGs because of how alone I feel in a HUGE world, at least in WoW Im not alone but I feel alone, and annoyed that a guy who just passed me got all his stuff in a week, and Im still lvl 12.

Overall if people were more productive in games like WoW rather than just playing I would feel Like Im in a actual world rather than a scavenger hunt game at 15 a month

 

[AnonymouZero]

i think i finally understand why i like mmorpgs, when i don't really like to party and join guilds... xD

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

I don't know what Damnation is so I can't comment on that comparison. As to the other...I'm not sure what to make of that. Yes, spending an evening washing dishes (which must be taking place in a MASSIVE kitchen to take all night, I guess?) with your girlfriend, assuming you two actually get along, can be as enjoyable as spending the evening with sex.

Look Damnation up on Metacritic if you haven't had it inflicted on you to any degree. The rest is horribly sad, bro. You must hold her purse a lot.

 

[A1]

I guess that's what makes a good game different from a great game. Namely the ability to make a long-lasting impression. I guess one such example of a great game by this token is Final Fantasy VII.

I never played FF7, and after hearing so many people say why its awsome, have no intention, to me its a boring story with bad graphics that people dont want to admit is an overdone story with bad graphics.

As for this, kings rings true I think for time to time. I usually play mmos try and meet people, usually fail as I never played well enough and got kicked out and was to cheap to play any mmo really besides Guildwars

Unbelievable.

Boring story? What kind of a claim is that coming from someone who hasn't actually played the game? It's like when Bob Dole criticized the movie Trainspotting before admitting that he hadn't actually seen the movie.

Overdone with bad graphics? Oh come on. This is a game that was from TWO GENERATIONS AGO. Judging it by today's standards is totally unfair and inappropriate.