Grammar, Spelling Nazis should just get over themselves

[Hipsy_Gypsy]

I am not a grammar nazi (although some claim i am, and i do correct people a lot...) but i would argue that they are doing the right thing. Over time, the english language has degraded to the point where people's vocabularies are so small that they cannot always exlpain their feelings and ideas adequately. This has sped up tenfold since the arrival of the internet, making correcting people even more important.

Basically, it disturbs me that some people have trouble expressing themselves.

I don't really care about spelling. The English language is a phonetic disaster.

That being said, I always try to spell correctly, as I pretty much know how.

Also, correct grammar is VERY VERY important to understanding what's being said. The less I have to imply from your speech, the better.

Every single mistake you make will have to be compensated for by your audience, as they'll have to figure out what it should be.

Individuals tolerance for this cleaning up of your trash can vary wildly, but in the end there's only one person to blame for people not bothering to read between the mistakes: you.
You might get bonus points in the tolerance department for not being a native speaker, but that by no means is a privilege, and after enough mistakes you'll still lose your audiences interest. It'll just be a bit further down the unpaved road of bad grammar.

Just think of it as the equivalent of talking to somebody in a drunken slur. You shouldn't be surprised then either if they're not interested to hear your opinion.

Personally I have a lot of respect for non-native speakers, dyslectics, lowly educated, and other "handicapped" who try their best anyway, even if they're not very good at it. The flipside is that I have little time for people who can't be arsed to speak their own language like they can, and should.
If you don't think your opinion is worth the effort of phrasing it well, then don't be surprised if I concur, and don't take the effort of ploughing through your warbling mess.

There are only two reasons that I won't call someone out on horrendous grammar and spelling. One is if they are not a native speaker of the tongue they are using. If this is the situation I will show them the errors that they have made in an attempt to help them in the long run using the language in question. The other is if it is being used to punctuate a point, or illustrate a situation further.

If your post(s) look like something I would have been ashamed to post when I was five I will tell you as such. Learn to speak, type, spell and punctuate properly and people won't ***** at you, even minor mistakes will be allowed far more often if you don't look like an idiot with no concept of proper language.

I'm not a Grammar Nazi, I just hate willfully stupid people.

I agree with all four of you (though I do care about it ). People can definitely get their point across far more effectively when their spelling and grammar is at least decent. However, sometimes people try their absolute best and then some people are complete arses to them over it. It's always good to help people a bit but being careful over correcting people and not sounding rude can be difficult. That being said, some people who probably can use, say, perfect grammar but don't even try annoy me the most. Usually those who use txt tlk somewhere other than on their phones.
Grammar is there to make things easier to read so it's good to at least try. However, if we see people who haven't used adequate grammar, to one's own tastes anyroad, then it's always good to not be rude to them over it but if it's obvious that they have a difficulty of some sort, it just makes them self-conscious if you are and it's not really their fault so you should help them if you can without intentionally making them feel foolish. Also it might just be a wee typo, those wee silly mistakes that we all have a tendency to make half the time. They could also be a bit waffly... like me, lol. So that being said, I apologise for any "waffly" posts I may make. :L



x

 

[Dr.Panties]

nitpicking

Teehee... you're English, aren't you? Cut the American some slack (and you missed one...)

OT: I'm very picky about correct usage of spelling and grammar in real life, but only because I work in an academic setting. On the internet, couldn't care less. If someone's post is so craven in its disregard to the rules of the English language (i.e. 1337-5p33k, incessant spelling mistakes, glaring grammatical errors, blatant misappropriation of metaphor/allegory/similes), I won't read it. I won't bother correcting occasional errors, though, particularly if I get what the poster is saying at a glance.

Why? Because I make a shitload of mistakes in my own posts... largely due to me being a terrible word-processor.

Oh, bugger! Now I'll have to find something else over which to obsess...

 

[caribbeanscot]

I'm a linguist by training, so this entire thread is catnip to me. I'll come back to the point above in a sec.

Whoever posted the Stephen Fry kinetic typography got one main point right. Language, like any human institution, has a social aspect, and in fields like academics, business, or science, you have to "dress up" your language to match the setting. There are things I do on Twitter that I wouldn't for one second dare to do while, say, writing my thesis.

I can just imagine that happening.

"Conclusions
Since our research and interviews have shown people feel no feeling of connection to the research area, it must be concluded that this particular project of city marketing, is stupid as hell, a waste of money, and whomever came up with it should be sacked."

But who can deny they ever toyed with the thought of writing such true but unacceptable statements?

Well, I admit I'm heavily biased. My field of study is Roman sexual invective (or, as I like to call it, "what does it mean to threaten to fuck someone in the ass in Latin?") so I get to write things most people can't get away with. There is a reason I picked classics.

But one thing I forgot to mention is that really spelling and grammar chaos - much as it can be a problem sometimes - is almost secondary. My real problem in terms of this "battle," so to speak, is with barracks professors who think they're the only ones who can tell you which words are "legitimate" and which ones aren't.

As far as this current point, though, one thing I want to add ? that "there's always someone bigger than you" applies really heavily in the language wars. For example, one of the people on the first page who got on a soapbox about how using correct spelling and grammar is a mark of good education or intelligence also dropped a "free reign." The idiom is "free rein." Comes from horse racing. Even money says if anyone noticed, AND knew the correct version of the proverb, they decided it didn't matter to the overall point that person was making. I'm not the master of the English language, but if you link people's brainpower to their use of language, then people more "intelligent" than you will pop up very quickly. Language shouldn't be a pissing contest.

The problem with that Stephen Fry video, much as I love it, is that no one actually thinks they're the kind of person he's caricaturing. A "spelling Nazi" is anyone who's got more "standards" about spelling (or, in the negative sense, is a bigger douchebag about it) than you are. Same with grammar.

 

[Drudgelmir]

Grammar, Spelling Nazis should just get over themselves

Grammar and spelling nazis should just get over themselves.

Sieg Heil! (I know it's likely deliberate by the OP but still )

If you were to make it proper and in a title, would you capitalise every word in that apart from and? Cause I tried, it looks ridiculous.

Or does the OP mean "Grammar; Spelling Nazis should get over themselves."

The 'Just' is redundant in this context, they either do or they do not.

I believe that people should at least make the effort to write in such a way that the grammar and spelling is correct. If they make a mistake that's fine, but there is no reason to use "1337 5pe4k" or (as I genuinely saw someone do once) use 'Txt tlk' that is no shorter that the original word. An example of that would be 'wont' meaning 'want', not only is this confusing but it is defeating the point of having words with specific meanings and uses.

Also: I have a feeling that the person who made this mistake was just thick, but it's fine, I don't judge him for it.

 

[Kargathia]

Spoiler

I am not a grammar nazi (although some claim i am, and i do correct people a lot...) but i would argue that they are doing the right thing. Over time, the english language has degraded to the point where people's vocabularies are so small that they cannot always exlpain their feelings and ideas adequately. This has sped up tenfold since the arrival of the internet, making correcting people even more important.

Basically, it disturbs me that some people have trouble expressing themselves.

I don't really care about spelling. The English language is a phonetic disaster.

That being said, I always try to spell correctly, as I pretty much know how.

Also, correct grammar is VERY VERY important to understanding what's being said. The less I have to imply from your speech, the better.

Every single mistake you make will have to be compensated for by your audience, as they'll have to figure out what it should be.

Individuals tolerance for this cleaning up of your trash can vary wildly, but in the end there's only one person to blame for people not bothering to read between the mistakes: you.
You might get bonus points in the tolerance department for not being a native speaker, but that by no means is a privilege, and after enough mistakes you'll still lose your audiences interest. It'll just be a bit further down the unpaved road of bad grammar.

Just think of it as the equivalent of talking to somebody in a drunken slur. You shouldn't be surprised then either if they're not interested to hear your opinion.

Personally I have a lot of respect for non-native speakers, dyslectics, lowly educated, and other "handicapped" who try their best anyway, even if they're not very good at it. The flipside is that I have little time for people who can't be arsed to speak their own language like they can, and should.
If you don't think your opinion is worth the effort of phrasing it well, then don't be surprised if I concur, and don't take the effort of ploughing through your warbling mess.

There are only two reasons that I won't call someone out on horrendous grammar and spelling. One is if they are not a native speaker of the tongue they are using. If this is the situation I will show them the errors that they have made in an attempt to help them in the long run using the language in question. The other is if it is being used to punctuate a point, or illustrate a situation further.

If your post(s) look like something I would have been ashamed to post when I was five I will tell you as such. Learn to speak, type, spell and punctuate properly and people won't ***** at you, even minor mistakes will be allowed far more often if you don't look like an idiot with no concept of proper language.

I'm not a Grammar Nazi, I just hate willfully stupid people.

I agree with all four of you (though I do care about it ). People can definitely get their point across far more effectively when their spelling and grammar is at least decent. However, sometimes people try their absolute best and then some people are complete arses to them over it. It's always good to help people a bit but being careful over correcting people and not sounding rude can be difficult. That being said, some people who probably can use, say, perfect grammar but don't even try annoy me the most. Usually those who use txt tlk somewhere other than on their phones.
Grammar is there to make things easier to read so it's good to at least try. However, if we see people who haven't used adequate grammar, to one's own tastes anyroad, then it's always good to not be rude to them over it but if it's obvious that they have a difficulty of some sort, it just makes them self-conscious if you are and it's not really their fault so you should help them if you can without intentionally making them feel foolish. Also it might just be a wee typo, those wee silly mistakes that we all have a tendency to make half the time. They could also be a bit waffly... like me, lol. So that being said, I apologise for any "waffly" posts I may make. :L



x

It certainly wouldn't hurt you to use a few more paragraphs ^_-

But to get back on topic: there is something I'm missing in this discussion.
Why isn't there any line being drawn between the simple judging of people by their language, and actively being an ass to them about it?

It doesn't really matter whether I (or anyone else) agree(s) with your reasoning: you're still an ass if you act as such.

An example of that would be 'wont' meaning 'want', not only is this confusing but it is defeating the point of having words with specific meanings and uses.

Also: I have a feeling that the person who made this mistake was just thick, but it's fine, I don't judge him for it.

It's a very phonetic mistake. In my experience that usually indicates a dyslectic, but it could also be somebody who learned his English speaking it.

 

[Hipsy_Gypsy]

It certainly wouldn't hurt you to use a few more paragraphs ^_-

But to get back on topic: there is something I'm missing in this discussion.
Why isn't there any line being drawn between the simple judging of people by their language, and actively being an ass to them about it?

It doesn't really matter whether I (or anyone else) agree(s) with your reasoning: you're still an ass if you act as such.

Hurrhurr Lol, yeah, I know; I've a bit of a bad habit with that, hence me saying how I've a tendency to be a bit waffly. Mind you, I think I'm just afraid of breaking it up too much but sure.

Eh, I don't think you're being an ass if you correct somebody but it's difficult not to seem like one, if that makes sense? I normally wouldn't because I'm afraid of seeming rude or unintentionally making the person seem or feel foolish. That and it could easily enough have just been a typo.


x

 

[darron13]

Arguing over a missed apostrophe or a commonly misspelled word, fine I agree, that's unnecessary (unless you're just trolling your friends, as I often do) but if you're trying to get a point across tpin leik ths dosnt help ur point.
It just makes people automatically take whatever point you have less seriously. Also, there's a reason why people prefer properly written posts...they're easier to read.

 

[Harlief]

The problem is, English is full of ambiguities, grammar and spelling are tools to make sure we express ourselves with as little confusion as possible.
That being said 'correct' grammar is a bit of a myth, as grammar changes from generation to generation. Anyone read Shakespeare recently?

 

[mental_looney]

It's a sliding scale, a few errors are no problem on the internet but incoherent garbage doesn't make a good impression anywhere.

I do have a friend who keeps using sadist when he means saddest and I'm not telling him as it makes chats with him rather funny.

 

[Dr.Panties]

Language is a way to communicate an idea. If someone doesn't use proper grammar, english, or spelling, yet communicates their idea clearly enough for someone else to understand, is it really necessary to nitpick the little things?

People use spelling and grammar to judge a person's intelligence, yet language is a very flexible and fluid thing. Using something as petty as spelling and grammar to judge a person's intelligence is just as prejudiced as using someone's skin colour, religion or sporting team preference.

So, if you're a grammar or spelling nazi, just get over it and find something else to obsess over.

Here, let me show you what nitpicking is through correcting this guy's grammar:

Language is a way to communicate an idea. If someone doesn't use proper grammar, English, or spelling yet communicates his/her idea clearly enough for someone else to understand, is it really necessary to nitpick the little things?

People use spelling an grammar to judge a person's intelligence, yet language is a very flexible and fluid thing. Using something as petty as spelling an grammar to judge a person's intelligence is just as prejudiced as using someone's skin color(I'm American, so I prefer color rather than colour.), religion or sporting team preference.

So, if you're a grammar or spelling Nazi, just get over it and find something else to obsess over.

Now, to the OP: (not the person I quoted, you're fine - I was just being nit picky to show them what nit picky is.)
In all seriousness, literacy does matter at least in the business/science world. Having literacy means that there won't be ambiguity in what one has said, which could be very important in legal documents. But in everyday conversation and typing, a sturdy grasp of the language isn't necessarily required. However, one needs to know how to correct write and speak, for the sake of formal matters. Formality is important, and the way we show this in English (since we have a lack for words that imply formality) is by speaking and typing in standard English.

For example, if you want to get a job at the Escapist right now, you must be able to write on the college level and you must be able to type standard English. But this isn't needed everywhere, but is needed. And besides, English grammar isn't that hard. Seriously. Go learn German. I dare you. There, their, and they're are different words and then and than are different words. Yes, these simple words MATTER in context. Overuse and under-use of a comma can make your paragraph sound horrible. And if you want to persuade someone, use correct grammar and spelling. You will never persuade anyone if you can't get these simple things correct. (Yes, you're right, it discredits your authority on a matter because you can't accomplish something so simple as English grammar. Oh, and yes, it is a logical fallacy but sadly enough no one knows their fallacies. So there.)

"and", not "an"
"nitpick/y", not "nit pick/y"
"colour", not "color"
"Though this isn't needed in every situation, it is still an important requirement within certain contexts.", not "But this isn't needed everywhere, but is needed." (eew, gross!)

 

[xdom125x]

I am sort of a Grammar Nazi, even though I kind of suck at grammar. Most spelling or grammar mistakes that I see in posts bug me slightly when they are on their own, but not to the point of complaining about them. However, if I see many mistakes in spelling or grammar (like never capitalizing, never using periods, using the wrong spelling of many words, etc.) it is much more annoying. I usually only complain about it if there are north of 5 mistakes per paragraph in the post. Also, I almost never quote people for the sole purpose of complaining about their grammar.

I double-check most things that I type to make sure they are a) as grammatically correct as possible and b) as understandable as possible. (I usually focus more on b.) Sure, I make a few spelling or grammar mistakes every now and then, but when I make those mistakes, they are my goddamn fault. If somebody points out mistakes in my spelling or grammar, it shows me that they give a damn about the language that I am speaking (or typing) in. I shouldn't be complaining that people tell me that I am mistaken when I am making mistakes. I should be more concerned over the fact that I am butchering a language to the the point that somebody actually felt obligated to correct me.

Language is a way to communicate an idea, if someone doesn't use proper grammar, english, or spelling yet they communicate their idea clearly enough for someone to understand it is it really necessary to nit pick the little things?

Only when the mistakes are so widespread in their comment that it gets in the way of understanding what they are trying to say.

People use spelling and grammar to judge a persons intelligence yet language is a very flexible and fluid thing,

Language being flexible and fluid doesn't give people free reign to screw up spelling or grammar and then complain that people tell them that they are not abiding by the current rules of grammar and spelling. For example I can't just say "yr hd s ttchd t yr nck" and complain when people ask me what the hell I am trying to say or why I left all the vowels out of my sentence. (sidenote: the bit that I put in quotation marks means "your head is attached to your neck")

using something as petty as spelling and grammar to judge a persons intelligence is just as prejudice as using someones color of skin, religion or sports team preference.

Bullshit.
Skin color is irrelevant in relation to how intellegent somebody is. Religion is debatable, but I'd argue that somebody's choice of religion would be a result of their intelligence level as oppose to the cause of it. Sports team preference is 2 things in my mind: who do you want to win and who do you think will actually win. For example, if your favorite team is the Lions and they are up against the Patriots (are they in the same "conference"? I don't know and don't really care for the sake of this analogy), you might want the former to win, but it is pretty obvious that thinking they will win is stupid.

Spelling and grammar on the other hand are cognitive faculties that are connected with how intelligent somebody is. An uneducated person wouldn't be able to spell very good well.

So if your a grammar or spelling nazi just get over it and find something else to be OCD about.

How about, "If you aren't going to put any thought into how you express your thoughts, you should just keep them to yourself or learn to communicate properly."


P.S. I bet there are many spelling and grammar mistakes in this very post and I do apologize for them and would understand if somebody wanted to go through this post finding them all, just to rub them in my face.

 

[Arriba]

It doesn't matter what you're trying to say. If you don't know the difference between they're, their, and there, that casts a shadow of doubt over your entire argument.

Well said. I'll still read a post with spelling errors, but some part of my brain has trouble taking it as seriously as a well-written, spell-checked one.

 

[somonels]

It's a lot nicer to have grammar nazis around then it to see some retard speek leet.
I support their cause.

 

[sky14kemea]

Sometimes it is necessary to get the point across.

The first one makes sense if hes talking to grandpa.....
Comma + exclamation always seems weird, why pause when your yelling? "Lets eat....Grandpa!"

The thing about the comma in that sentence is it's not an obvious pause. I know it does look strange sometimes, but that's just how language works.

The first sentence "Let's eat Grandpa." Is basically saying 'let's literally eat Grandpa.' Like cannibals. D:

The second sentence is saying "Let's go eat something, Grandpa!" and has a much happier ending. xD

But yeah, I agree it does look weird. I sometimes forget to add commas like that.

 

[Professor J. Luvwitt]

Language is a way to communicate an idea, if someone doesn't use proper grammar, english, or spelling yet they communicate their idea clearly enough for someone to understand it is it really necessary to nit pick the little things?

People use spelling and grammar to judge a persons intelligence yet language is a very flexible and fluid thing, using something as petty as spelling and grammar to judge a persons intelligence is just as prejudice as using someones color of skin, religion or sports team preference.

So if your a grammar or spelling nazi just get over it and find something else to be OCD about.

"Language is a way to communicate an idea. If someone doesn't use proper grammar, English, or spell correctly, yet they communicate their idea clearly enough for someone to understand it, is it really necessary to nitpick the little things?

People use spelling and grammar to judge a person's intelligence, yet language is a very flexible and fluid thing. Using something as petty as spelling and grammar mistakes to judge a person's intelligence is just as prejudiced as using someone's skin color, religion, or sports team preference.

So, if you're a grammar or spelling Nazi, just get over it and find something else to be obsessive about." (I may have missed some. To those who are more skilled than I am in the art of English grammar: go nuts. Oh, and feel free to pick apart my post as well.)

Fixed it for you Just kidding... I am a bit of a grammar Nazi though. Sorry if it annoys some people, it's just how I am. If I found something else to be "OCD" about (even though OCD cannot be used in this context, as it is not an adjective), people would just complain about me obsessing over that. We all have our quirks, mine is correcting people in a "nitpicky" way. At least I'm consistent

 

[Professor J. Luvwitt]

It's partly a matter of respect. If somebody can't be bothered to make sure she's used "they're" where she should, why should I be bothered listen to what she has to say?

Why did you use "she" instead of "they" or "he/she"? Are you insinuating that people who can't use "they're" correctly are normally girls? I'm very interested as to why you used "she" if the reason I stated is not correct.

 

[Dyme]

People should correct grammar. If everyone did this, maybe people would learn. But of course most people can't take the tiniest bits of criticism.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I agree. I think that while you should try to sound like it isn't your first time using the English language so long as it can be understand, why bother pointing out every little mistake? It doesn't come off as helpful.