Griefing - Is it OK?

Zak Frost

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May 29, 2008
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Griefing is just trolling in video games.
Just like the internet games are not serious business.
When I used to play Battlefront with my friends in person I used to teamkill them all the time and they would do the same to me(One time I got my kills down to negative 13).
You know why? Because it's just a fucking game.
If you don't want to get griefed, don't play multiplayer.

If you don't have a sense of humor get off the internet and get off the multiplayer server.
Gitsnik said:
"Griefing" just sounds like a nice way to say "piss someone off". I've never encountered it (thank God) but I presume you mean in games where TK is not possible, standing around with flash-bangs and screwing with your own team. In which case "HELL NO".

If you think that's ok, I seriously have to wonder about your mental state - not even I think that's ok.

It's funny, I didn't think video games had trolls, but apparently they do! Anyone caught doing this in real life would be shot regardless of "no team kill" mechanics. It's just a dumb thing to do.
Grief means:
"keen mental suffering or distress over affliction or loss; sharp sorrow; painful regret."
"a cause or occasion of keen distress or sorrow."
And an idiom "(to) come to grief" means:
"to suffer disappointment, misfortune, or other trouble; fail"
"Grief" is not a nice way to say something.

You have seriously wonder about the mental state of someone because they're screwing around in a GAME?

Trolls are necessary, they show the community who's retarded enough to fall for them.
Also, are you threatening people with death because they are having fun in a game?

I remind you that in a multiplayer shooter you can't win without killing the other people playing's in game avatar, and therefor there is no way to have fun without taking fun away from someone else.

Summary: Cry more, Mr. Butthurt Can'ttakeajoke.
 

Antiparticle

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Dec 8, 2008
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No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's very unfortunate that, like in the real world, in online games there is a small group of individuals who purposely act like an asshole to sour the experience for the rest of us. If you really believe teamkilling, glitching, sabotaging the game etc. is "lololol teh rofl", please keep it in private servers with likeminded friends, and don't bother the people who are trying to play the game normally.
 

Eric the Orange

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Apr 29, 2008
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First off i'd like to say that I would define greifing as doing somthing with the purpose of angering another.

Griefing is like being a bully, your having fun only at the expence of others. You said it yourself, it's just a game, a game being somthing created around having fun. By doing somthing to specificly hinder someone elses enjoyment, well i'd say you have serious mental problems.

for those of you who don't know the personality trait that says you take enjoyment from the pain of others is called sadist.
 

Xivilai87

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Mar 11, 2009
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judging griefing should go by a situation-to-situation basis. you cant make a final judgement about it because it varies from game to game, match to match, and person to person.

look at world of warcraft, 2 level 80s could PvP. if one dies, they are forced to respawn with reduced health. the winner of the fight could be waiting for the respawn only to strike again. and if he kills the unfortunate player again, he is still getting honor. he could sit there for hours and keep doing it if he really wanted to.

i dont think this is griefing. but someone else might. my arguement here is that hes not abusing any game mechanics, he is jumping on an advantage in order to gain points, and further his own development.


if this same 80 in the same game were to do this to a level 20 however, hes not gaining anything, and its griefing.


recently, i was playing Resident Evil 5 online in a coop match. the person i was playing with sounded like he was 8-12 years old, screaming through the headset in a high pitched voice at anything and everything. i was hosting the game, and he would get upset every time i picked up gold or treasure before him (anyone who has played knows its shared in online play). he said i have all this upgraded gear, and that i didnt need it. i told him to calm down, explained that its shared, and to just play, or i would be kicking him out of my game.

he continued screaming everytime i picked anything up, so i had enough, and decided to irritate him to give him something to scream about. several times he ran ahead of me, and when an enemy grabbed him, i had the choice to shoot the enemy and save him, or let him die. obviously, i let him die on several occasions. the round ended horrible, with bad rankings because of his high death count, and he was screaming at me the whole time.

is this griefing? i dont consider it to be. it was his actions that led me to this, and he could have just left my game at any time. some might say it was my form of "retiribution", others might say that i was 100% griefing.

griefing is a grey area of gaming. i dont think we can ever truly get a clear black and white answer on it because its never going to be the same.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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I've been gaming for a long time, and I have griefed before so I understand the appeal. I do however feel (now that I am older actually) that the behavior needs to be done away with. The problem though is that to really police griefers requires a sort of active administration of the sorts multiplayer games are not going to put into force. Basically you'd need company employees to be online 24/7 and do nothing but run around being online police officers out to uncover and sting people for cheating/griefing/whatever.

The thing is though that in a practical sense it's impossible to get people to agree on what griefing is in some cases. For example in WoW PVP, especially in the old days of the honor grind, people used to feel that exploiting the game and creating mods to rapidly shut out the other side and win battles was perfectly fine since they were simply doing what they needed to do in order to hit the honor requirements and such. Of course those on the receiving end, felt very much griefed. This still goes on to some extent in WoW, and is still a problem, but not to the extent that it used to.

You'd for example have some hard core PVP guys who knew each other IRL creating their own mods for the game, and distributing them to people only in their guild. Even if you DLed stuff off of like Curse.net you might not be able to compete. However then they made the BGs multi-server, changed what the game would let you do with a mod, and other things, so while it still happens you aren't going to be on your one server fighting the same guild again and again with their own custom mods. I was involved in what I could only call "mod wars" for a while where it seemed we spent as much time talking about mods, planning mod layouts, and coming up with ideas for counter mods (even though I didn't program them) as we did anything else since it was the only way to really compete at any level.

At any rate, all rambling aside, this brings up the entire "Griefer" vs. "Care Bear" debate and honestly the mentality is mutally exclusive. Those who want to Grief are pretty much always going to find ways to do it and keep doing it, UNLESS there is a level of active administration unlike anything seen before.

Free online Multiplayer modes for action games simply can't support TRUE active policing by the company being free and such. MMORPGs could in theory do it, but they won't. In the end they pretty much figure that their entire population is addicted enough that the victim isn't likely to quit, and taking action against a griefer might cause them to quit and cost them an account. It's much easier to effectively maintain a skeleton crew, and ensure that response times to even the simplest things are so long that few people even bother to make reports.

I could say more about it, but really it's pointless. Yes, griefing is a problem, but it doesn't matter how many people agree since nothing will be done about it.
 

keyton777

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Aug 14, 2008
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if i understood the definition given properly, i find greifing to be extreamly relaxing during a bad day, just pissing someoen off during CoD5 search and destroy because he took teh bomb and ran off to touch himself or something, just walk up to him, where he can see me, and put a damn bullet between his eyes, and just listen to him whine and whine like a set of bad brakes is just......good, i like doing it to those that run away from the frontlines during a rousing game of plant the bomb is just fun.



also, i am a notorious teamkiller in call of duty, well in some gametypes, i dont do it to ppl that are doing their fricken jobs, i kill off those little morons that are just running off with a valuble item we need to win, and i tend to fidn them with someone else off in one corner of the map, which makes me wonder if they are haveing battlefeild....welll you get it (i hope)



ha! this was a rant.....and now i feel better :)
 

Pumpkin_Eater

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Mar 17, 2009
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Griefing doesn't inherently mean abusing exploits, although often that does help. Did this all the time as a WoW player because after all that's the entire point of MMOs. My favorite tactic was mind controlling people to make the guards attack them; damaged their gear on death that way.
 

jasoncyrus

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Sep 11, 2008
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Since there are some people trying to give wow examples of griefing, badly I admit but nice try.

I'll give you a perfect example of griefing during wow. Befor ethat I will state, alliance/horde repeat killing each other, following, camping, etc is NOT griefing. It's fun instead. Especially on pvps servers where we lurk^^

Griefing however is as follows:

My guild was leading a raid to Ironforge to kill the boss there. We passed another Raid led by New Order (on eu servers). Our raid got there first, fought through IF and got to the boss and began to kill him. (heres where the griefing starts)

When he was at half hp the other raid arrives. Apparently they were all 12 because they start sending their tanks in to take aggro from our tanks and drag the boss out of the room to reset him. They failed and we got aggro back, but 2 mins later, off they go again, clearly trying to reset the boss.

We were not amused, at all. There was subsequently a 15 page ass kicking dealt out by myself and a few others on the forums. (they really, REALLY sucked at verbal warfare...)

On a side note: As for letting the guy in Res evil die so much..should've just kicked him from the game since it apparently harmed your rankings also. No sense in cutting your own nose off just to spite someone.
 

peachy_keen

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Feb 1, 2009
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Only if it's creative! If you grief your own team in a really innovative and funny way, I probably won't get mad.
 

JCTiger

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Mar 20, 2009
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I would grief the R-tards in CSS that make it their mission to use every form of language that is considered faux pas in regular society. I find that upon the addition of one of these "people" to the game, I lose all sense of kill/death ratio, and instead grief them to death (hopefully). My favorite times would be in box maps like breakfloor, where if you shoot enough boxes out from under someone, they fall to their deaths.

However, if I get griefed for o apparent reason, I do get quite any angry. I don't mind it so much if I was an asshole to begin with.
 

FujinAkari

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Jan 5, 2008
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Xivilai87 said:
look at world of warcraft, 2 level 80s could PvP. if one dies, they are forced to respawn with reduced health. the winner of the fight could be waiting for the respawn only to strike again. and if he kills the unfortunate player again, he is still getting honor. he could sit there for hours and keep doing it if he really wanted to.
Except, of course, that after the third kill he stops gaining honor for it.
 

Steeveeo

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Sep 2, 2008
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In my opinion, grief those who take the game way too seriously or are a general pain, but don't grief just for the sake of griefing, it ruins the game for people actually playing.

About the former, this means things like:

- Players raging over your team not winning the match (sore losers).
- Loud mouthed idiots profanely declaring their superiority over you when they beat you, even in a close game (sore winners).
- Loud mouthed idiots just being loud mouthed idiots.
- 9 year-olds.
- Whiners.
- Quitters (provided you find the server they run to. Note that I mean those who quit because they're getting their ass kicked, not the ones that want a simple change of pace).

I may add more later if I come up with others and still have an idea where this thread is.
 

Flour

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Mar 20, 2008
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Griefing depends on the context for me. If in WoW, someone killed me, I wouldn't care because I can usually kill them too when I see them again.
If that person would wait for me to respawn, I still wouldn't care because I know it's time for a nice long break. If I come back after 40 minutes and that person is still there to kill me, then it's just sad.(yes, it happened)
But I consider it griefing is when some no-life fuck follows me around for two hours, forcing me to defend myself and getting absolutely no work done in the game.(happened once and while I like pvp, following someone for two hours before level 80 is just sad)

KoRn_Leader said:
The proper definition of "Griefing" :

The use or abuse of a game mechanic that was not intended by the game's developers.
That's not griefing, you just described a bug or glitch, or being smarter than the development team :)
 

Elurindel

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Dec 12, 2007
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Antiparticle said:
No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's very unfortunate that, like in the real world, in online games there is a small group of individuals who purposely act like an asshole to sour the experience for the rest of us. If you really believe teamkilling, glitching, sabotaging the game etc. is "lololol teh rofl", please keep it in private servers with likeminded friends, and don't bother the people who are trying to play the game normally.
Pretty much this. Some people just want to play the game. Sometimes, though people want to piss around. There should be servers specifically for this kind of thing, so the rest of us can play.
 

Elhueno

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Jul 29, 2008
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Having over 500 hours on bf 2142 i enjoy a good grief. TF2 and bf2142 nowadays are dominated mainly by young children who shouldnt be allowe da microphone. Sometimes i just get sick of being called a hacker and go on a team knifing spree, or find one person and kill/revive them till they leave. Chaotic Evil in my books =)