Guise of the Wolf Dev Takes Down Negative YouTube Review - Update 2

[Roxas1359]

Is that how that works? You'd think having three parents (divorced and remarried, before anyone asks) with legal degrees would imbue me with natural legal expertise. If only.
Disney's influence over copyright law needs to be seriously cut down so we can fix it. And sadly, they have too much of a stronhold in the emotions and nostalgia of the American public for a nation-wide boycott to be effective. The thing is, though, even if Mickey Mouse cartoons went public domain, they'd still have a trademark on him since they use him in marketing.

Disney is pretty much responsible for everything wrong with the copyright system in this day and age. Originally, as labelled in the constitution, a work would become public domain after I believe it was 14 years, and a 14 year renewal (they'd have to renew the copyright and have it for 14 more years). That law was changed to 28 years in 1831 while still having a 14 year renewal system. Then in 1909 the renewal time was extended to 28 years, so now one would have to wait 56 years before something could go public domain if not renewed. Then, the biggest one, which has parts in this case which need to be updated, is the Copyright Act of 1976. That act extended the time covered to 75/life of the author, plus an additional 50 years. From the Copyright Act of 1976 came the Fair Use Act of 1976 which labelled what is and isn't allowed under the terms of Fair Use. Problem though is that the Fair Use Act has not been updated since 1976 and as such we have legal gray areas all over the place, especially with Let's Plays and video reviews, and it doesn't look like the law will be updated anytime soon, even though it desperately needs to be updated.

There was one more major one for time extension as well, the Copyright Term Extension of 1998 which extended the time before a work becomes public domain to 95 or life of the author plus 70 years! The Walt Disney Company lobbied for extensively for the Copyright Term Extension because they didn't want Mickey Mouse to be in possible public domain...so yeah now we are in a time in which characters won't possibly enter into public domain until over 165 years after the author has died! >.<

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

About the only thing that would have been more entertaining would be if they'd decided to mess with Penny Arcade instead.


Well, I think we can safely assume that Guise of the Wolf is going to be Fun Creators' very final game.

 

[Fsyco]

Do not like someone's opinion? Silence it. Geee... I wonder if that has ever worked?

Surprisingly, yes. This kind of thing used to work alot better before the rise of the Internet.

I think we're looking at this wrong, though. If they wanted to boost sales, they should have done this right when it came out. They would have done it right after the video went up. This wasn't their attempt to supress criticism, this was some deluded Narcissist (I feel I'm overusing this word, but that's the only explanation that makes sense. I'll call it "DN" from now on) enacting some kind of grand scheme of revenge. Or at least, what they thought was a grand scheme of revenge.

When a DN is confronted with someone they don't like, they treat that person as an 'un-person' and will go to extreme lengths to right whatever wrong they feel was dealt to them. Since they're delusional, they will also develop negative views on whoever this person is, despite mounds of evidence to the contrary. My mother, for example, is convinced my father is both a colossal idiot and Satan incarnate, despite him outsmarting her at every turn during their divorce and being fairly docile in most circumstances. This guy thinks that TotalBiscuit is a small-time dweeb making videos by himself, and therefore will act like TotalBiscuit IS a small-time dweeb making videos by himself. He went to a decent amount of effort (making a sockpuppet post on the steam forum so they could later say that they wouldn't do this and changing the font in the email) to have deniability once they did the actual takedown. This was not done to censor criticism of their game, but so that TB's channel would get taken down. This was done purely to nurse a severely wounded ego and stop a perceived conspiracy.

The end goal wasn't to make people want their game, it was to make the lead dev feel better.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I think we're looking at this wrong, though. If they wanted to boost sales, they should have done this right when it came out. They would have done it right after the video went up. This wasn't their attempt to supress criticism, this was some deluded Narcissist (I feel I'm overusing this word, but that's the only explanation that makes sense. I'll call it "DN" from now on) enacting some kind of grand scheme of revenge. Or at least, what they thought was a grand scheme of revenge.

When a DN is confronted with someone they don't like, they treat that person as an 'un-person' and will go to extreme lengths to right whatever wrong they feel was dealt to them. Since they're delusional, they will also develop negative views on whoever this person is, despite mounds of evidence to the contrary. My mother, for example, is convinced my father is both a colossal idiot and Satan incarnate, despite him outsmarting her at every turn during their divorce and being fairly docile in most circumstances. This guy thinks that TotalBiscuit is a small-time dweeb making videos by himself, and therefore will act like TotalBiscuit IS a small-time dweeb making videos by himself. He went to a decent amount of effort (making a sockpuppet post on the steam forum so they could later say that they wouldn't do this and changing the font in the email) to have deniability once they did the actual takedown. This was not done to censor criticism of their game, but so that TB's channel would get taken down. This was done purely to nurse a severely wounded ego and stop a perceived conspiracy.

The end goal wasn't to make people want their game, it was to make the lead dev feel better.

Y'know what? I'm inclined to believe you. I can't realistically imagine that even just two people could've gotten together to do all of this without one of them saying "Okay, this is nuts, we need to stop".

 

[GamemasterAnthony]

I'm pretty sure the damage for FUN is already done, though. Everybody knows what awful dirtbags they are and their brand name is ruined. That might have to do, since taking these people to court is probably not worth TB's time and money.

True...but legal action could serve as a means to warn other companies not to pull this kind of crap, or perhaps even set up case law that could prevent it entirely. (Again...not sure as I'm no legal expert.) Either way, I feel it might be a necessary step with the current state of how copyright is being used/abused.

 

[Fsyco]

I think we're looking at this wrong, though. If they wanted to boost sales, they should have done this right when it came out. They would have done it right after the video went up. This wasn't their attempt to supress criticism, this was some deluded Narcissist (I feel I'm overusing this word, but that's the only explanation that makes sense. I'll call it "DN" from now on) enacting some kind of grand scheme of revenge. Or at least, what they thought was a grand scheme of revenge.

When a DN is confronted with someone they don't like, they treat that person as an 'un-person' and will go to extreme lengths to right whatever wrong they feel was dealt to them. Since they're delusional, they will also develop negative views on whoever this person is, despite mounds of evidence to the contrary. My mother, for example, is convinced my father is both a colossal idiot and Satan incarnate, despite him outsmarting her at every turn during their divorce and being fairly docile in most circumstances. This guy thinks that TotalBiscuit is a small-time dweeb making videos by himself, and therefore will act like TotalBiscuit IS a small-time dweeb making videos by himself. He went to a decent amount of effort (making a sockpuppet post on the steam forum so they could later say that they wouldn't do this and changing the font in the email) to have deniability once they did the actual takedown. This was not done to censor criticism of their game, but so that TB's channel would get taken down. This was done purely to nurse a severely wounded ego and stop a perceived conspiracy.

The end goal wasn't to make people want their game, it was to make the lead dev feel better.

Y'know what? I'm inclined to believe you. I can't realistically imagine that even just two people could've gotten together to do all of this without one of them saying "Okay, this is nuts, we need to stop".

SOMEONE BELIEVES ME ON THE INTERNET YAY! MY EXISTENCE HAS BEEN VALIDATED!! *dance of joy*

Also, if more people were involved, the lead dev likely strong-armed them into cooperating. DNs get VERY upset when their world-view isn't validated, and will lash out at anyone nearby. His co-workers and co-conspirators (and possibly family members) are probably just going along with it in the hope it'll make him stop shouting at everyone. So even if someone were to say to him "This is nuts, we need to stop", he would probably question their loyalty and yell at them until the dissenting opinion was squashed.

 

[scorptatious]

*punches on mopcorn*

Personally, while I don't agree with some of the things TB says, he shouldn't have his video taken down just because his review puts the game in a negative light.

I want to say that if I were in the company's position, I would just take the criticism and try to make the best of things, but hey, when money and your job is a factor, I guess it's hard to take the high road. That's not to say what they did wasn't wrong though.

 

[Roxas1359]

Personally, while I don't agree with some of the things TB says, he shouldn't have his video taken down just because his review puts the game in a negative light.

TB didn't take down the video though, FUN Creators forced YouTube to take it down, resulting in a copyright strike, under the pretenses that he had no right to do it, despite his video being covered under Fair Use.

 

[scorptatious]

Personally, while I don't agree with some of the things TB says, he shouldn't have his video taken down just because his review puts the game in a negative light.

TB didn't take down the video though, FUN Creators forced YouTube to take it down, resulting in a copyright strike, under the pretenses that he had no right to do it, despite his video being covered under Fair Use.

Oh, my mistake. That's what I meant to say, but I worded that wrong and said something else instead. :/

But yeah, I definitely don't agree with taking down a video when all it's doing is providing criticism. Again though, when it comes to money and your job, I can see why they would attempt to do something like that. Although I'm sure there were other ways they could have handled this matter without landing themselves in hot water.

 

[Fsyco]

I'm pretty sure the damage for FUN is already done, though. Everybody knows what awful dirtbags they are and their brand name is ruined. That might have to do, since taking these people to court is probably not worth TB's time and money.

True...but legal action could serve as a means to warn other companies not to pull this kind of crap, or perhaps even set up case law that could prevent it entirely. (Again...not sure as I'm no legal expert.) Either way, I feel it might be a necessary step with the current state of how copyright is being used/abused.

I understand the sentiment, but I'm not sure this specific instance is really the case to do it. You've got a small company not based in America run by a frothing lunatic making false claims against a guy who doesn't like attention and is easily stressed out. It would be better if it were a bigger corporation that were committing the abuse against a more vindictive, determined person, since that would send a bigger message and set a stronger precedent, and the plaintiff would have more 'fight' in them, as it were.

Or we could do something else. Petition Google/Youtube, maybe? Write them letters? I got nothin'.

 

[GamemasterAnthony]

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure the damage for FUN is already done, though. Everybody knows what awful dirtbags they are and their brand name is ruined. That might have to do, since taking these people to court is probably not worth TB's time and money.

True...but legal action could serve as a means to warn other companies not to pull this kind of crap, or perhaps even set up case law that could prevent it entirely. (Again...not sure as I'm no legal expert.) Either way, I feel it might be a necessary step with the current state of how copyright is being used/abused.

I understand the sentiment, but I'm not sure this specific instance is really the case to do it. You've got a small company not based in America run by a frothing lunatic making false claims against a guy who doesn't like attention and is easily stressed out. It would be better if it were a bigger corporation that were committing the abuse against a more vindictive, determined person, since that would send a bigger message and set a stronger precedent, and the plaintiff would have more 'fight' in them, as it were.

Or we could do something else. Petition Google/Youtube, maybe? Write them letters? I got nothin'.

The problem is see is that Youtube has one way penalties, their system is ludicrous. There is absolutely no consequence for anyone falsely claiming any video. Their system is so broken that it even allows companies unrelated in any way to claim ad revenue from a video (see; Miracle of Sound and a service he used to host some of his music claiming the music he wrote is actually theirs). There is no recourse. And that's not even going into how bad people outside of networks have had it for so long. I don't understand why any content creator would ever use youtube in its current state, their needs to be a migration away from the service as it is completely useable.

Then...perhaps whatever authorities can do so should procecute YouTube? *gets looks* Allow me to explain.

The one way nature and the unfair weight being given to the claims show that YouTube isn't exactly protecting the rights of its users. Not only is the appeal process so screwed up and takes too long one could argue violating the users' right to due process, but since YouTube is favoring the claims to the point of allowing fraudulent claims to pass, one could also argue they are an accessory to fraud after the fact. Again...I am no legal expert...I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS RIGHT! However, if we really want YouTube to clean up their act, perhaps legal action against them is warranted.

 

[Fsyco]

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure the damage for FUN is already done, though. Everybody knows what awful dirtbags they are and their brand name is ruined. That might have to do, since taking these people to court is probably not worth TB's time and money.

True...but legal action could serve as a means to warn other companies not to pull this kind of crap, or perhaps even set up case law that could prevent it entirely. (Again...not sure as I'm no legal expert.) Either way, I feel it might be a necessary step with the current state of how copyright is being used/abused.

I understand the sentiment, but I'm not sure this specific instance is really the case to do it. You've got a small company not based in America run by a frothing lunatic making false claims against a guy who doesn't like attention and is easily stressed out. It would be better if it were a bigger corporation that were committing the abuse against a more vindictive, determined person, since that would send a bigger message and set a stronger precedent, and the plaintiff would have more 'fight' in them, as it were.

Or we could do something else. Petition Google/Youtube, maybe? Write them letters? I got nothin'.

The problem is see is that Youtube has one way penalties, their system is ludicrous. There is absolutely no consequence for anyone falsely claiming any video. Their system is so broken that it even allows companies unrelated in any way to claim ad revenue from a video (see; Miracle of Sound and a service he used to host some of his music claiming the music he wrote is actually theirs). There is no recourse. And that's not even going into how bad people outside of networks have had it for so long. I don't understand why any content creator would ever use youtube in its current state, their needs to be a migration away from the service as it is completely useable.

Then...perhaps whatever authorities can do so should procecute YouTube? *gets looks* Allow me to explain.

The one way nature and the unfair weight being given to the claims show that YouTube isn't exactly protecting the rights of its users. Not only is the appeal process so screwed up and takes too long one could argue violating the users' right to due process, but since YouTube is favoring the claims to the point of allowing fraudulent claims to pass, one could also argue they are an accessory to fraud after the fact. Again...I am no legal expert...I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS RIGHT! However, if we really want YouTube to clean up their act, perhaps legal action against them is warranted.

That sounds uh....complex It would take some serious legal voodoo to get YouTube charged with fraud. Your legal knowledge is a little...lacking. I appreciate the zeal though x3 Nice to have causes to believe in.

What you'd want is some kind of massive class action law suit, but that would require alot of people banding together and organizing, and coughing up money to pay lawyers, and lawyers who would do this probably don't come cheap.

Alternatively, you could start some kind of competitor to YouTube with more lenient copyright policies that favor the content creator. No idea how well that would work though.

 

[GamemasterAnthony]

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure the damage for FUN is already done, though. Everybody knows what awful dirtbags they are and their brand name is ruined. That might have to do, since taking these people to court is probably not worth TB's time and money.

True...but legal action could serve as a means to warn other companies not to pull this kind of crap, or perhaps even set up case law that could prevent it entirely. (Again...not sure as I'm no legal expert.) Either way, I feel it might be a necessary step with the current state of how copyright is being used/abused.

I understand the sentiment, but I'm not sure this specific instance is really the case to do it. You've got a small company not based in America run by a frothing lunatic making false claims against a guy who doesn't like attention and is easily stressed out. It would be better if it were a bigger corporation that were committing the abuse against a more vindictive, determined person, since that would send a bigger message and set a stronger precedent, and the plaintiff would have more 'fight' in them, as it were.

Or we could do something else. Petition Google/Youtube, maybe? Write them letters? I got nothin'.

The problem is see is that Youtube has one way penalties, their system is ludicrous. There is absolutely no consequence for anyone falsely claiming any video. Their system is so broken that it even allows companies unrelated in any way to claim ad revenue from a video (see; Miracle of Sound and a service he used to host some of his music claiming the music he wrote is actually theirs). There is no recourse. And that's not even going into how bad people outside of networks have had it for so long. I don't understand why any content creator would ever use youtube in its current state, their needs to be a migration away from the service as it is completely useable.

Then...perhaps whatever authorities can do so should procecute YouTube? *gets looks* Allow me to explain.

The one way nature and the unfair weight being given to the claims show that YouTube isn't exactly protecting the rights of its users. Not only is the appeal process so screwed up and takes too long one could argue violating the users' right to due process, but since YouTube is favoring the claims to the point of allowing fraudulent claims to pass, one could also argue they are an accessory to fraud after the fact. Again...I am no legal expert...I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS RIGHT! However, if we really want YouTube to clean up their act, perhaps legal action against them is warranted.

That sounds uh....complex It would take some serious legal voodoo to get YouTube charged with fraud. Your legal knowledge is a little...lacking. I appreciate the zeal though x3 Nice to have causes to believe in.

What you'd want is some kind of massive class action law suit, but that would require alot of people banding together and organizing, and coughing up money to pay lawyers, and lawyers who would do this probably don't come cheap.

Alternatively, you could start some kind of competitor to YouTube with more lenient copyright policies that favor the content creator. No idea how well that would work though.

Fsyco...were you reading my mind or something? I was recently ponering the idea of what would happen if an alternative to YouTube was created. I agree, though. The odds of this working without the alternate site having to conform to the same copyright constraints are slim.

 

[Fsyco]

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure the damage for FUN is already done, though. Everybody knows what awful dirtbags they are and their brand name is ruined. That might have to do, since taking these people to court is probably not worth TB's time and money.

True...but legal action could serve as a means to warn other companies not to pull this kind of crap, or perhaps even set up case law that could prevent it entirely. (Again...not sure as I'm no legal expert.) Either way, I feel it might be a necessary step with the current state of how copyright is being used/abused.

I understand the sentiment, but I'm not sure this specific instance is really the case to do it. You've got a small company not based in America run by a frothing lunatic making false claims against a guy who doesn't like attention and is easily stressed out. It would be better if it were a bigger corporation that were committing the abuse against a more vindictive, determined person, since that would send a bigger message and set a stronger precedent, and the plaintiff would have more 'fight' in them, as it were.

Or we could do something else. Petition Google/Youtube, maybe? Write them letters? I got nothin'.

The problem is see is that Youtube has one way penalties, their system is ludicrous. There is absolutely no consequence for anyone falsely claiming any video. Their system is so broken that it even allows companies unrelated in any way to claim ad revenue from a video (see; Miracle of Sound and a service he used to host some of his music claiming the music he wrote is actually theirs). There is no recourse. And that's not even going into how bad people outside of networks have had it for so long. I don't understand why any content creator would ever use youtube in its current state, their needs to be a migration away from the service as it is completely useable.

Then...perhaps whatever authorities can do so should procecute YouTube? *gets looks* Allow me to explain.

The one way nature and the unfair weight being given to the claims show that YouTube isn't exactly protecting the rights of its users. Not only is the appeal process so screwed up and takes too long one could argue violating the users' right to due process, but since YouTube is favoring the claims to the point of allowing fraudulent claims to pass, one could also argue they are an accessory to fraud after the fact. Again...I am no legal expert...I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS RIGHT! However, if we really want YouTube to clean up their act, perhaps legal action against them is warranted.

That sounds uh....complex It would take some serious legal voodoo to get YouTube charged with fraud. Your legal knowledge is a little...lacking. I appreciate the zeal though x3 Nice to have causes to believe in.

What you'd want is some kind of massive class action law suit, but that would require alot of people banding together and organizing, and coughing up money to pay lawyers, and lawyers who would do this probably don't come cheap.

Alternatively, you could start some kind of competitor to YouTube with more lenient copyright policies that favor the content creator. No idea how well that would work though.

Fsyco...were you reading my mind or something? I was recently ponering the idea of what would happen if an alternative to YouTube was created. I agree, though. The odds of this working without the alternate site having to conform to the same copyright constraints are slim.

Blip already exists, and I think that pretty much illustrates all the pitfalls of making an alternative. You'd need your own player (theirs sucks), you'd need servers to host this kind of thing, you'd need money to pay for doing all of this (blip's ads are absolutely grating and then they complain when people use adblock), and you'd need a sufficiently good legal team to deal with claims of copyright infringement, because you WILL get takedown notices, you'll probably get a few cases of people actually infringing copyrights, and you might get people uploading...shall we say, less savory material. You'd need to employ people to monitor that kind of thing, you'd need somebody to handle PR/social network garbage, and you'd need to pay these people.

So, it -could- be done, if you have the time, money, resources, etc.

 

[FalloutJack]

Aaaand the gentleman wins a cigar. Well played, TB. Enjoy your victory lap and go have yourself a coffee.

(TotalBiscuit went on to be the five-time world champion against Garry-type incidents before corporations decided on giving up and letting him say as he pleased. He eventually retired and played golf with Yahtzee on Thursdays.)

 

[Saulkar]

The Biscuit shall rise again!!! I seriously cannot understand why companies keep doing this. It did not work the first time and I cannot fathom that it will work the next.

 

[Something Amyss]

OK... I haven't shifted through all the posts here, but did anyone else notice that they said their company was bigger THEN his Youtube channel? Sending out a serious email and not grammar checking. If there were any doubt that these guys were stupid they managed to clear it all out now. Oh and threats that can be traced back to them again. Yeah, these guys are stupid. If they ever go to court they are making evidence against themselves that will actually hold up in court rather than something they can claim is doctored fake screenshots.

Sadly, I've seen legal documents with more typos than this.

The Biscuit shall rise again!!! I seriously cannot understand why companies keep doing this. It did not work the first time and I cannot fathom that it will work the next.

Because they think they can. YouTube has basically made it possible to bully content creators, so naturally people are going to try it.

 

[Saulkar]

YouTube has basically made it possible to bully content creators, so naturally people are going to try it.

I hope that someone with enough time and money can create a third party system to track the assault or closure of smaller youtube accounts by companies that seek to Censor and AstroTurf.