Guise of the Wolf Dev Takes Down Negative YouTube Review - Update 2

[Ragsnstitches]

I want Yahtzee to take a break from half decent games this week to have a go at this. I know that he would love to tear them a new one. Can't imagine it would be as easy to take a video down from TheEscapist website.

I'm just being a little nitpicky here, but they wouldn't have a claim against Yahtzee regardless. Yahtzee uses no copyrighted material in his videos, whereas TB (and many other youtubers) use in-game footage with accompanied audio, both of which are copyrighted.

OT:
YT content creators, especially reviewers and LPers, rely on Fair Use to use copyrighted content, even though many of them generate original content around it. Fair Use on YT has fallen on somewhat shaky ground lately. TB is just one of many YT personalities getting the shaft from this crap (another popular one is Angry Joe, and he has been doing frequent video updates on the bullshit Youtube is letting pass).

This is as much Youtubes fault as it is these so called "developer" assbags. It's even more sickening when one realises the people getting screwed the most are the ones that MADE youtube what it is today.

 

[hutchy27]

Wow they sound crazy as hell "We feel that someone pushed you to make that video, who is this guy/organisation?", do these devs sit with tin foil hats blaming their failure on a conspiracy?

 

[Zombie_Moogle]

Clearly this company doesn't actually have any lawyers...
I don't understand what they want.

Spoiler

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/pkdmslf/InternetToughGuy.jpg

I absolutely cannot wait to watch this particular train-wreck-in-slow-motion play out

Mod Edit: Added spoilers; please use spoiler tags for images. Thank you.

 

[Eiv]

I want Yahtzee to take a break from half decent games this week to have a go at this. I know that he would love to tear them a new one. Can't imagine it would be as easy to take a video down from TheEscapist website.

I'm just being a little nitpicky here, but they wouldn't have a claim against Yahtzee regardless. Yahtzee uses no copyrighted material in his videos, whereas TB (and many other youtubers) use in-game footage with accompanied audio, both of which are copyrighted.

OT:
YT content creators, especially reviewers and LPers, rely on Fair Use to use copyrighted content, even though many of them generate original content around it. Fair Use on YT has fallen on somewhat shaky ground lately. TB is just one of many YT personalities getting the shaft from this crap (another popular one is Angry Joe, and he has been doing frequent video updates on the bullshit Youtube is letting pass).

This is as much Youtubes fault as it is these so called "developer" assbags. It's even more sickening when one realises the people getting screwed the most are the ones that MADE youtube what it is today.

I know that Yahtzee uses no copyrighted content. My intention was that they never removed the video due to 'copyright material', that was merely a guise to take the content down. So if Yahtzee (guest starring Total Biscuit) made a video, Yes it would piss them off but they couldn't do dick about it.

 

[masticina]

AH yes, TB is hit again by one.

Seriously Fun Creators is so losing out on this one. They have NOBODY at their side.

Look they made a game, okay, that was halfbaked, okay, that kinda worked, okay, but was quite not ready, okay. And they brought it out. And TB reviewed it.. as he does with games that are brought to him.

Fun Creators probably we're the ones even giving him a free copy for it. Not sure but ya know.

Fun creators is so going to lose this out. Time to rename your company!

But yeah another small company going into a hissy fit about their game sucking and the reviews showing it.

Look making one bad game isn't going to kill your company. Yes it was allot of money but if you can make a second game and that at least is half decent people are willing to forgive. Hell most people wouldn't even KNOW you made the first game.

But attacking TB. TB who is protected by Polaris.. that is like a baby seal trying to attack an brown bear.

 

[Zipa]

These guys really are going to regret picking on TB, he may be a small fry compared to these big companies but he is one of the Youtubers lucky enough to be with a big multi channel network (Maker Studios aka Polaris). They will likely see Fun get ruined for their blatant disregard of the law.

It is still totally unacceptable for Youtube to allow this bullshit to go on though, there are many smaller channels who have the same thing done to them but they unlike TB don't have a major media company fighting their corner and have to put up and shut up.

 

[K12]

AH yes, TB is hit again by one.

Seriously Fun Creators is so losing out on this one. They have NOBODY at their side.

Look they made a game, okay, that was halfbaked, okay, that kinda worked, okay, but was quite not ready, okay. And they brought it out. And TB reviewed it.. as he does with games that are brought to him.

Fun Creators probably we're the ones even giving him a free copy for it. Not sure but ya know.

Fun creators is so going to lose this out. Time to rename your company!

This last bit about renaming the company speaks to something I said earlier. I don't think that they should be able to come back from something like this. Assuming that the e-mails aren't just pranks (I seriously have no idea at this point) I want to make sure that this black mark is on "Jasmine" (and however is okaying these e-mails) forever!

Sounds a bit vindictive but you shouldn't be able to run away from something as stupid, petty and hateful as this.

 

[masticina]

AH yes, TB is hit again by one.

Seriously Fun Creators is so losing out on this one. They have NOBODY at their side.

Look they made a game, okay, that was halfbaked, okay, that kinda worked, okay, but was quite not ready, okay. And they brought it out. And TB reviewed it.. as he does with games that are brought to him.

Fun Creators probably we're the ones even giving him a free copy for it. Not sure but ya know.

Fun creators is so going to lose this out. Time to rename your company!

This last bit about renaming the company speaks to something I said earlier. I don't think that they should be able to come back from something like this. Assuming that the e-mails aren't just pranks (I seriously have no idea at this point) I want to make sure that this black mark is on "Jasmine" (and however is okaying these e-mails) forever!

Sounds a bit vindictive but you shouldn't be able to run away from something as stupid, petty and hateful as this.

It is indeed very questionable how good their legal council is. Or to say the least if they even have it! This might be a PR manager doing the job of legal council. Yeah not a good plan.

And yeah they might have to do what some companies long in the past have done. Like Wisdom Tree, you make shitty games or make big mistakes. You end up having to rename your company. Or that black water mercenary group I belief they renamed themself Xen.

Why? PR shitstorm from hell! I mean.. really really really bad PR.

Why? If they just would let it go.. and make another game that is awesome or at least decent. Then their name would be still good. Your first try at anything probably fails.

 

[Kururu999]

Just floating another idea out there. Does anyone think that Valve deserves some of the blame for this?

The fact that Steam doesn't have a decent level of quality control for its games means that terrible games like this will be produced fairly often.

No. Stop parroting Jim. A year ago everyone was whining and complaining (probably including Jim, but I can't be assed to go looking for a quote) that Valve basically had a monopoly on PC games and if you weren't on steam you were boned. That's how greenlight came to be in the first place. Now that the floodgates are open everyone is whining and complaining that Steam isn't a walled garden anymore. If you use Steam you have the internet, spend 20 minutes googling something before you buy it, don't cry to mommy Gaben that your game sucked.

 

[K12]

Just floating another idea out there. Does anyone think that Valve deserves some of the blame for this?

The fact that Steam doesn't have a decent level of quality control for its games means that terrible games like this will be produced fairly often.

No. Stop parroting Jim. A year ago everyone was whining and complaining (probably including Jim, but I can't be assed to go looking for a quote) that Valve basically had a monopoly on PC games and if you weren't on steam you were boned. That's how greenlight came to be in the first place. Now that the floodgates are open everyone is whining and complaining that Steam isn't a walled garden anymore. If you use Steam you have the internet, spend 20 minutes googling something before you buy it, don't cry to mommy Gaben that your game sucked.

Surprisingly, it's possible to agree with someone without parroting them.

The phrase "floating an idea out there" should quite clearly imply that I'm not 100% behind the idea that Steam should be responsible for the quality of the things it sells. You must realize that this kind of post is not going to sway me towards your way of thinking, which is a shame since a relevant point was embedded amongst the rude self-righteousness.

Surely, it would be a good thing to improve the information available to consumers on Steam? Yes, I can find the information somewhere else (although not if "Fun"Creators have their way) but it's good for both me and Steam if they provide me with good information. It saves me time and increases my consumer loyalty to them. The only people this helps is shit developers trying to make a quick buck before people realize how crap their product is.

And frankly does anyone honestly believe that this game is worth £9.99? Isn't Steam presenting it as such an implicit endorsement of it.

 

[LordLundar]

Just floating another idea out there. Does anyone think that Valve deserves some of the blame for this?

The fact that Steam doesn't have a decent level of quality control for its games means that terrible games like this will be produced fairly often.

:snip:

Obviously Valve's blame is well down the list after "Fun"Creator and Youtube but they still contribute in some way to the environment where this kind of shit happens.

As does any store, physical or digital. If it was on another service would you be demanding the same thing for them as well?

Wow they sound crazy as hell "We feel that someone pushed you to make that video, who is this guy/organisation?", do these devs sit with tin foil hats blaming their failure on a conspiracy?

They're not the first or even the most notorious. Several big ticket devs and publishers blame piracy when their POS game doesn't sell millions of copies. Very similar really. Only real difference is the target. It's so common that it seems that to be a dev or publisher you almost HAVE to be a member of the tin foil hat brigade at this point.

 

[Vivi22]

I have to ask, but these "Emails" look like someone is literally fucking with TB. I mean no self-respecting corporation would 1. send out an email like that, 2. use language like that, 3. have zero signature block, or 4. I don't believe the email username in question.

I'm sorry, but I feel like he is getting trolled, and HARD. This all seems far too fake. I mean, "Jasmine" is their person in charge of answering this type of complaint? That's it, JASMINE? No last name? No office number or way to contact other than email? This is crap people. I bet you he could call them right now and they don't have a Jasmine working on their books. This is a troll DMCAing TB and trying very hard to kill, while regrettably a terrible company, a corporation that makes games.

Considering they're apparently a small indie company made up of a bunch of nobodies who lacked the requisite amount of skill to even make a mediocre game I could believe that they are that unprofessional. They wouldn't be the first people at a small company to be that bad and they won't be the last.

But here's the thing: even if we assume that the emails were faked and TB was getting trolled, a reasonable company would say that they didn't know what was going on, but once they had the whole story they'd let him know they were getting in touch with Youtube to get the claim against his video removed and sort out the whole situation.

They haven't done that. That I could have respected. What they've done is the exact opposite of that. Instead they've accused TB of faking the emails, of being a liar, and basically handed him a defamation suit on a silver platter. Based on their responses to his tweets, even if they weren't the ones responsible, they'd still be just as guilty for doing nothing to fix the situation, and just as bad for being complete assholes about it.

So based on their responses to his tweets I have little doubt those emails are authentic. Their tweets are just further confirmation of them being a bunch of unprofessional dick bags who probably aren't above lying publicly in a lame attempt to save face which has completely backfired.

Never mind that people have come out confirming they sent the take down notice, or that reddit users have demonstrated that a private steam profile which has been standing up for them on their forums is most likely being used by the developers.

 

[Cecilo]

Just floating another idea out there. Does anyone think that Valve deserves some of the blame for this?

The fact that Steam doesn't have a decent level of quality control for its games means that terrible games like this will be produced fairly often.

No. Stop parroting Jim. A year ago everyone was whining and complaining (probably including Jim, but I can't be assed to go looking for a quote) that Valve basically had a monopoly on PC games and if you weren't on steam you were boned. That's how greenlight came to be in the first place. Now that the floodgates are open everyone is whining and complaining that Steam isn't a walled garden anymore. If you use Steam you have the internet, spend 20 minutes googling something before you buy it, don't cry to mommy Gaben that your game sucked.

Surprisingly, it's possible to agree with someone without parroting them.

The phrase "floating an idea out there" should quite clearly imply that I'm not 100% behind the idea that Steam should be responsible for the quality of the things it sells. You must realize that this kind of post is not going to sway me towards your way of thinking, which is a shame since a relevant point was embedded amongst the rude self-righteousness.

Surely, it would be a good thing to improve the information available to consumers on Steam? Yes, I can find the information somewhere else (although not if "Fun"Creators have their way) but it's good for both me and Steam if they provide me with good information. It saves me time and increases my consumer loyalty to them. The only people this helps is shit developers trying to make a quick buck before people realize how crap their product is.

And frankly does anyone honestly believe that this game is worth £9.99? Isn't Steam presenting it as such an implicit endorsement of it.

No. I don't think so, I really have my doubts steam sets the prices of games. More than likely the creator of the game sets the price, tells Valve what they want the price to be. And then the people who run the steam pages apply it to that.

As for the shared blame, no. I really don't think so. It is up to YOU, not steam to do research on something. They offer you the OPPORTUNITY to buy a game. And regardless of what Steam does, it seems they will get backlash. Before the Floodgates it was a pain in the ass to get through greenlight, before that there was no greenlight. Each time people complained that it wasn't open enough, now they allow everyone through and people complain that Steam refuses to check the product. Well guess what, they can't check every product, there are to many Indies. Couple that with the fact that someone VOTED for these games, well someone must enjoy them. So. No, Steam isn't to blame for my, your or anyone else doing a lack of research.

 

[bossfight1]

I'm actually finding this very entertaining; it may seem cruel, but I like seeing stupid people throwing hissy fits like this. It's like the devs think that taking TB down (which they WON'T) will magically make their game BETTER, or will make everyone actually buy it.

But seriously, though, Youtube needs to change their whole copyright system so this crap won't keep happening; no automated "Oh, you want that vid taken down? Sure! BOOM," crap. Actually human-driven methods where the dev has to make a legit claim, where someone from Youtube needs to actually look at the video and see for themselves whether it actually infringes on copyright laws... This crap is not, never was, and never WILL be okay.

 

[Callate]

I would hope (perhaps with excessive optimism) that Youtube would be concerned about this.

The relative popularity of many of Youtube's channels (and the accompanying ad revenue) comes in a large part from the sense that the creators of those channels are a sort of "grassroots" movement, one largely free of the biases and manipulation of more "mainstream" media sources, a rawer and less professional breed but one with a certain inherent honesty and passion that makes them closer to their viewership.

If it becomes the conventional wisdom that it's this easy to suppress negative publicity, those channels' reputation as a whole may suffer. And certainly, many video creators arent going to have the relative success of someone like Total Biscuit; at the first sign of possible legal action, right or wrong, they're likely to fold, frightened of long-term financial strife from what for them amounts to a hobby with perhaps a very small monetary benefit.

I'm beginning to think we need more solid and indisputable court precedents in the favor of digital content creators and fair use; twenty-first century law really doesn't seem to be keeping up.

 

[Valok]

Oh man, christmas has come earlier for the internet. I mean, bashing is great and whatnot but on these cases where someone trully deserves a real beating, it becomes almost therapeutic relaxing to drop the hammer on ppl like these.

Honestly, if this is all really true, what we have here is a clear combination of stupidity + lack of knowledge of how the (Mostly PC in this case) Gaming World works around the internet.

This is a Garrus "Incident" 2.0 - Enhanced Edition. They have no idea of what this means for then short and long term wise.

 

[Altorin]

Oh man, christmas has come earlier for the internet. I mean, bashing is great and whatnot but on these cases where someone trully deserves a real beating, it becomes almost therapeutic relaxing to drop the hammer on ppl like these.

Honestly, if this is all really true, what we have here is a clear combination of stupidity + lack of knowledge of how the (Mostly PC in this case) Gaming World works around the internet.

This is a Garrus "Incident" 2.0 - Enhanced Edition. They have no idea of what this means for then short and long term wise.

I would totally play a Garrus Incident game.

 

[2fish]

Jim Sterling must be pissed I mean they took down TB's video but not his.

It would be nice if youtube got it's shit together and at least make a penalty to people that abuse the system.

This will be interesting to watch.

 

[CelestDaer]

So, I had to go look at the sales page on Steam for this game, and I swear it sounds like a game one of my classmates at Sanford Brown kept trying to pitch at the rest of us. If it weren't for the medieval setting, it would be... I wouldn't put it past him, either, to try to DMCA anyone criticizing his work.

 

[seditary]

Another fun addition here, but this was apparently tweeted by Fun Creators as well.
http://i.imgur.com/dVh4j21.jpg

That is their "proof" that the image Totalbiscuit linked in his twitter ( http://i.imgur.com/w1iLIhi.png ) was obviously photoshopped. Note, of course, that the image Fun Creators submitted has text that is darker and even slightly fuzzier than the one Total tweeted out.


I'd personally like to thank them for proving that totalbiscuits is the more realistic and unphotoshopped image here. I don't know why they did it (oh wait, yes I do because they are idiots), but they did it.

Holy shit what.

So they photoshopped an image and posted it to try to prove that TB photoshopped his image?

Its gotta be drugs seriously.