Hating Dark Souls?

[DBLT4P]

I think alot of the contention on this topic comes from the very fine line that dark souls strattles in terms of difficulty, there is ALOT of stuff that is going to kill you that chuck norris's beard couldn't see coming, and you are supposed to die, and then learn to avoid it next time or just mercilessly beat every chest you find to death until you are sure its not going to eat you (a certain fortess comes to mind here, and might I add there were no chests in demons souls you just looted corpses). In fact you are exected to die so often that the game worked it into the story, as did its predecessor.

This doesn't make the game "good" or "bad" it is just a matter of whether or not it is the type of game you want to play. I find it rewarding, what you think is none of my buisness. The whole argument comes from people wanting to apply generalized absolutes to things like good or bad or "best game evar!" And then getting offened when people hold an opposing opinion. People still play WoW and MMO's in general even though they are almost required to involve alot of grinding or grind like activities by the mmo format.

Bottom line: if its not your cup o' tea, don't drink it, but dont' criticize others for drinking or not drinking it. Its none of your damn buisness what people drink with breakfast.

 

[Ickorus]

Heres the thing about it though. I never notice anything elses weapons bounce of walls...
Physics? xD yeah. Totally. And i know everything is killable. You can lock on and see their health. That doesnt mean you CAN kill them. The dragon on the bridge fries you before you get within half a mile.

You can kill the dragon, just not right away.

But heres the thing, did you enjoy died 350+ times?

Yep, well, more specifically, I enjoyed killing the things that killed me.

Where in there did you find time to have fun? In between the cheap deaths because you character recoiled over a ledge

Not a cheap death, don't stand right on the edge when fighting.

, your shield was 1 pixel off for blocking,

Raise your shield sooner, if you have the choice between an extra hit and the possibility of being hit back or hitting once less and being certain to take minimal damage always choose the latter; i've died many times because I tried rushing it when the enemy was very low on health and that's entirely my own problem.

or you just didnt know you were about to die to something big and ugly. Yes, the games title is "Prepare to die". But that doesnt make it any better of a game.

Be vigilant, i've only died a few times because i've not seen it coming but every time it's because I wasn't paying full attention.

That is including the dragon, the first hit didn't kill me and when I got up I hid for a moment looked around and then stupidly charged the dragon because I didn't spot the staircase. My fault.

CoD is an "Innovative FPS with team dynamics", but how often is there any innovation, or actual teamwork involved? A game being hard doesnt make it good. A good game uses its difficulty to teach a player to become better, not hammer them until they get lucky at a part their stuck at, and then kill them 10 seconds later because their out of pots! xD

You shouldn't rely on getting lucky, just formulate a better plan each time you die.

 

[Jodah]

No reason to be melee? How far are you into the game? Really, how far? I'd love to see you take on the Giant Lava Spider without swinging a stick or 2.

Also, you being knocked off edges is because you have no poise. Go get the Wolf Ring and put on some armor so an attack doesn't knock you. Also, I rarely die from ledges. No idea what you're doing wrong.

Armor is useful, yes a shield will block 100% melee but it will not do the same for magic and fire. So armor helps and armor boosts your poise.

If your knight wasn't doing enough damage get a bigger sword. The BKS or Claymore are accessible early on.

If you don't like hallways equip a rapier...

A masochists wet dream? I've defeated most bosses on my first go. Stand and block for a while and figure out the openings and then go for it.

HOW DID YOU FALL OFF THE EDGE AGAINST THE TAURUS DEMON!!!! LOL...Dude, wow. Just wow. There's one gap that any sane person would do well to avoid.

This game is a proper challenge. Enemies do damage but everything (Except for this one boss: spoiler) is beatable. I really don't get how you can't see that. I'm sorry but you really must suck at the game. Half the things you complain about are fixed with 3 seconds of thought.

Ledges are not that bad! Dying doesn't get easier, it gets harder because if you play properly you learn. You learn not to rush into a room, to pull enemies out of their groups with a bow. For example I killed the Lava Spider and then used the same tactic to finish off Sif the Wolf in one go because I realised both of them could be killed from underneath.

You complain about the game just wanting to torture but I started a second character and was able to get through a large chunk of the game in 2 hours because it wasn't a challenge anymore.

EDIT: I'm not raging, I'm just annoyed that you're putting a game down when you just seem to give up when things don't go your way, for example.

Everything is impossible to dodge unless you're a pyromancer? You do realise dodge is dependent on the weight of your armor and the amount of END you have, yeah? There is no inventory limit and if I'm versing a boss I know armor will be useless against I put on a lighter option to increase my overall speed. So, ANY class can increase dodge speed.

Also, you go on about pyromancers when pyromancers aren't anything special. As soon as you find the teacher ANYONE can be a pyromancer. Your knight for instance, but I guess you didn't get far enough to realise and you didn't realise that INT doesn't increase fire damage.

I'm not the OP but I beat the "lava spider" with only spells, didn't melee her once. In fact, I found it more difficult when I did try to melee her the first time.

 

[Ickorus]

Also, where the fuck do i find weapons in this game? The only good ones i found are the drake sword and the black knight greatsword. But the drake sword feels cheap and i dont have the strength for the greatsword. Ideally i would want to find a curved sword because i really love the moveset. (No i won't kill the merchant for a katana).

I believe The Catacombs have both Falchions and Scimitars and if you're after a good curved greatsword then you'll want to go to blighttown and find 'Server' on a corpse in the swamps at the bottom.

 

[Wolfram23]

My only real problem with it is Ceaseless Discharge. That was not a fair boss fight. Ugh. Still, managed to do it after... 20? 30? tries.

 

[AlternatePFG]

My only real problem with it is Ceaseless Discharge. That was not a fair boss fight. Ugh. Still, managed to do it after... 20? 30? tries.

He's actually a gimmick fight. There's an area where you can safely hit him, you just have to occasionally dodge to get him to smash his tentacle down to where you can hit it.

 

[retyopy]

This should be in user reviews, I would think. Sort of.

Good point, maybe, since I haven't played the game.

 

[krazykidd]

Now before you all flip a lid thinking this is a rage thread, your only half right.

Dark Souls is a decent game. But i dont think it requires half the praise it gets. Dont say "oh, its because you suck at it" or "its because you dont like a hard game", let me tell you, ive played Monster Hunter from start to finish since the first one. G-Rank and all.

Dark Souls isnt a game about difficulty. Its a game about beating your face against a brick wall until you find something that works. I WANT to like the game, but i cant, because of the dozens of poor design flaws in the game. ((Due note, this are only things i think are horrible flaws, these views may, and probably will vary person to person.))

Wall of text, read at your own risk.

Spoiler

1: No reason to be melee. Ive played 3 different classes, and so far, ive noticed a trend. I pick Knight, and the game is.... Difficult. Your weapon feels like it does nothing to anything but basic undead, theres no real point to armor when your shield blocks 100% physical damage and you can dodge everything else, and nearly every enemy has a combo that can almost insta-gib you. But then i play Pyromancer. The game is absurdly easy now. Why? Because nothing gets within 20 feet of me. And if it does, its already at less then half health. Every challenge i ran into as a knight, i instantly blew through as a Pyromancer. Armored battle boar? No problem! I have fireballs for days!

2: Constant weapon bouncing. Nearly all of the melee weapons have a habit of bouncing even if half a pixel grazes anything solid. I do like a game where hit boxes are well made, but theres a limit to it. I find myself bouncing off of every surface within 10 feet, while im being beat on by something immune to wrath of walls. ((Or poisoned by rats i cannot hit))

3: Ledges. Everywhere. Nearly all of the deaths i befell were because of ledges. Anything stronger then a rough breeze and your character either recoils like an electric car hit him, or sends him flying. I take no damage from either of these, yet im dying. Why? Because every ledge and its grandmother want me to die. This was a massive pain in the Taurus demon fight where every swing he took either sent me flying, or was impossible to dodge because i chose a class other then Pyromancer.

4: Random Death. Beings you cant kill, and you accidentally drew agro because you bent a piece of their beloved grass. They come rushing at you, and well, you die. Running is a decent option except they chase you far beyond what i would call an area boundary, and will 2 hit kill you unless you block every attack they throw at you.

Dont get me wrong. I love a challenge. Every game i own, ive beaten on the hardest difficulty. And i consider myself more then a hardcore gamer. But whenever i hear about Dark Souls i hear, "You never feel cheated, you always learn something from your deaths", when really, all ive learned is, Hallways suck, ledges suck, 1 pixel of fire igniting your entire body sucks, Giant knights with weapons larger then you suck, and being melee sucks. Almost every death i encounter, i feel cheated on, either because of ledges, wall bounces, or random boss level baddies stabbing me in the back when i didnt even know they were there.

I like the game, and i really want to love it. But i feel its getting far more praise then it really deserves. It went from challenging to "how can we be an arse hat and ruin 2 hours of gameplay?"

And im sorry if it comes off as me raging. But honestly, if i were raging i wouldnt even be posting. Id be at the shooting range, putting several holes in my new favorite target. I feel that Dark Souls was going in the right direction, and ended up getting stuck on, "LEZ MAEK EET HURDER".

Long story short, the game never really gets better, dying never gets easier, and F*CK LEDGES.
So what does everyone else think about Dark souls and its random moments of jerk-mode? Anything ni particular grind nails against your chalk board?

I think your overexaggerating a tad bit ( a whole lot ! )

1)I played Bandit ,havent touched a magic spell yet ( soul lvl 120 )and although it is true melee can feel underwhelming, PYROMANCY IS OVERPOWRED.The trick is to find a weapon that works for you and upgrade the hell out of it.I used the lightning spear and the stone sword. and switch depending on the situation , and upgraded them to the max.I would use the spear when i knew i had to block ( mostly for bosses and giant knights and the such ) the stone sword were when i knew i didn't need a shield and i would dual weild it. Also year armor sucks except for resistance,i wore light armor until i got the stone set and it changed little.

2)Depending on your weapon swing radius, you may hit walls more or less often. Spears for example would never ever hit a wall since you stab straight (unless you stabed into a wall duh). Great Axes which have a bigger radius , are more likely to hit a wall if you are next to a wall.This should be obvious, watch your surrounding and think about how your character swings.

3)What? I don't even ... Ledges are suppose to kill you.Your not suppose to fall down a ledge.Watch where you roll. If your not sure, there are prism stones for this very purpose, you throw it to see if you can jump down, if you hear a noice it's safe ( not meaning you wont take damage though) , if not you will die. Also take recoil into consideration when fighting on a small bridge or something, monsters can block, also your character steps foward when attacking. Just be carful .

4)What beings can you not kill exactly? Everything is killable ( except maybe the floating skulls that explode in the catacombs but you can black that ). Also enemies can HEAR YOU, there's a ring to make you silent, but if they SEE you, they will still rush towards you .Were you expecting enemies like in Metal gear solid 1 ?That wouldn't notice you unless you walking in their blue line of vision ?

I personally like the game, and don't see anything wrong with it.Everything you mentionned in your post is your own fault.Learn from you mistakes, and points in vitality and endurance are always a good investment.

My stats are 40 vit, 50 str, 40 Endurance, 25 dex ,20 resistance and everything else is BASE.I focused on Vit first , and leveled str and endurance almost equally.

 

[Gitty101]

Each to their own I suppose. You don't HAVE to like a popular title. I personally love Dark Souls though, once you get your own play-style going, it gets a lot easier. I do think they could have made the menus a little better and an explanation for what items do would be nice, but those are minor niggles. You just need to be patient, learn enemy timings and the extent of your character's capabilities.

Oh yes, and I also love MH ^_^ Absolutely love the freakin' Gunlance XD

 

[Shru1kan]

Spoiler

Now before you all flip a lid thinking this is a rage thread, your only half right.

Dark Souls is a decent game. But i dont think it requires half the praise it gets. Dont say "oh, its because you suck at it" or "its because you dont like a hard game", let me tell you, ive played Monster Hunter from start to finish since the first one. G-Rank and all.

Dark Souls isnt a game about difficulty. Its a game about beating your face against a brick wall until you find something that works. I WANT to like the game, but i cant, because of the dozens of poor design flaws in the game. ((Due note, this are only things i think are horrible flaws, these views may, and probably will vary person to person.))

Wall of text, read at your own risk.

Spoiler

1: No reason to be melee. Ive played 3 different classes, and so far, ive noticed a trend. I pick Knight, and the game is.... Difficult. Your weapon feels like it does nothing to anything but basic undead, theres no real point to armor when your shield blocks 100% physical damage and you can dodge everything else, and nearly every enemy has a combo that can almost insta-gib you. But then i play Pyromancer. The game is absurdly easy now. Why? Because nothing gets within 20 feet of me. And if it does, its already at less then half health. Every challenge i ran into as a knight, i instantly blew through as a Pyromancer. Armored battle boar? No problem! I have fireballs for days!

2: Constant weapon bouncing. Nearly all of the melee weapons have a habit of bouncing even if half a pixel grazes anything solid. I do like a game where hit boxes are well made, but theres a limit to it. I find myself bouncing off of every surface within 10 feet, while im being beat on by something immune to wrath of walls. ((Or poisoned by rats i cannot hit))

3: Ledges. Everywhere. Nearly all of the deaths i befell were because of ledges. Anything stronger then a rough breeze and your character either recoils like an electric car hit him, or sends him flying. I take no damage from either of these, yet im dying. Why? Because every ledge and its grandmother want me to die. This was a massive pain in the Taurus demon fight where every swing he took either sent me flying, or was impossible to dodge because i chose a class other then Pyromancer.

4: Random Death. Beings you cant kill, and you accidentally drew agro because you bent a piece of their beloved grass. They come rushing at you, and well, you die. Running is a decent option except they chase you far beyond what i would call an area boundary, and will 2 hit kill you unless you block every attack they throw at you.

Dont get me wrong. I love a challenge. Every game i own, ive beaten on the hardest difficulty. And i consider myself more then a hardcore gamer. But whenever i hear about Dark Souls i hear, "You never feel cheated, you always learn something from your deaths", when really, all ive learned is, Hallways suck, ledges suck, 1 pixel of fire igniting your entire body sucks, Giant knights with weapons larger then you suck, and being melee sucks. Almost every death i encounter, i feel cheated on, either because of ledges, wall bounces, or random boss level baddies stabbing me in the back when i didnt even know they were there.

I like the game, and i really want to love it. But i feel its getting far more praise then it really deserves. It went from challenging to "how can we be an arse hat and ruin 2 hours of gameplay?"

And im sorry if it comes off as me raging. But honestly, if i were raging i wouldnt even be posting. Id be at the shooting range, putting several holes in my new favorite target. I feel that Dark Souls was going in the right direction, and ended up getting stuck on, "LEZ MAEK EET HURDER".

Long story short, the game never really gets better, dying never gets easier, and F*CK LEDGES.
So what does everyone else think about Dark souls and its random moments of jerk-mode? Anything ni particular grind nails against your chalk board?

Ledges? Sorry, haven't had problems. I got knocked off once from being attacked near one, haven't engaged enemies near them since. And if walking off is your issue, walk diagonally. Forward and against the wall, its just extra insurance.


The parry/riposte combo works extremely well in tight quarters. Although I haven't been seeing any problems with hardcore recoiling even though I main a black knight sword (claymore-size if you aren't familiar with the sword.). Yeah, a couple spots are indeed overly cheap, the most notable one being at the end of the undead parish with that balcony hallway, you got a turtle (cause damn if those spearmen ever stop blocking until the moment you cant afford for them to attack) on the right and a sword knight on the left. You basically get double teamed unless you barely get spotted by the spear guy first and retreat. This isn't skill difficulty, its surprise difficulty. Well, it would be, if not for my next point.

I hate hate HATE HATE HATE how the enemies can attack through each other. They don't even damage their allies while they do it. It's just bullshit that forces for you to wait until they both present an opening.

Your best bet is to buy a weak bow and a shitload of weak arrows. Aggro them one at a time from range. This ensures your one on one scenario.

All else fails? Easy mode is spears and magic. Although I feel it sucks a bit too much fun out of the game. I refuse to turtle anyone but the snake-men from Sen's Fortress, and that's because I just don't like those guys, at all.

Get the drake sword and it is useful (almost game-breakingly so) until you ring the second bell. Keep in mind to upgrade a weapon to replace it with once it's shine wears off. A good weapon to replace it without upgrading, however, is the lightning spear in Sen's Fortress, dropped by a mimic chest.

All that said, the game becomes easy once you get the controls down. I spent hours dying until I had perfected dodge, parry/riposte and backstabbing. After that, my pyromancy seems more of an afterthought, because you can suddenly take on almost every enemy with any weapon.

If the game gives you room when you are fighting ANY enemy, use it. Being mobile lets you backstab and possibly avoid massive hits that drain your stamina too quick.

I have only had one cheap boss fight, and that is the Capra Demon that holds the key to the depths. Fuck him and his massive overhand swing just as you enter the arena. It can literally kill you before you regain control of your character.

 

[Stall]

Hey, wasn't the OP the brainchild accusing Dark Souls of being a rip-off of Skyrim?

 

[Project_Xii]

Yeah... unfortunately dude almost every one of your points will fall under the "learn to play"/"get better" arguement for hardcore players, myself included. I played melee class and had very little problems. The "flaws" your pointing out are part of the game, and meant to make you play better. There all related to your own skill, not the game being a jerk. When you make a mistake in the Souls games, it's because YOU make a mistake. That's why people love the games.

Suck at melee? Get better. Weapon bouncing? Don't attack like a mad man near walls, time your blows. Ledges? Get better and stay away from them. Random death? You went exploring without knowing what to expect, took on a monster you didn't know how to handle, and died because of it. That's part part of the game, and meant to happen. The whole thing is waiting until your strong enough to fight these things; very few of the bigger enemies are meant to be tackled early on. Many you have to come back much later in the game for.

Even when you do randomly die, it's generally not hard to run back, grab your souls and run for you life again. So while it's possible to see why you don't like these things, ultimately the players are going to say "Get better" to most of it. Especially when many of us learned to overcome those obstacles within the first hour or so of play...

 

[RedDeadFred]

I don't get it either. Saying dying over and over is a selling point is just weird to me. My friend rented it and we were playing it but we just got so bored. I don't see how finishing off a tough boss is a good payoff after taking the trip to get to him about 30 times.
I play games for relaxation and escapism, not for work.

 

[Hazy]

[

(P.S, and if you were to mention the Fog Ring, I would be supporting you 110%. Fuck that thing straight to hell. What were you thinking, From?)

Um... what is the Fog Ring? I might have missed that one...

Oh, you know, just a ring that makes you nearly invisible and incapable of being locked onto.

Nothing game breaking, or anything.

 

[AlternatePFG]

[

(P.S, and if you were to mention the Fog Ring, I would be supporting you 110%. Fuck that thing straight to hell. What were you thinking, From?)

Um... what is the Fog Ring? I might have missed that one...

Oh, you know, just a ring that makes you nearly invisible and incapable of being locked onto.

Nothing game breaking, or anything.

Fog Ring pretty much guarantees I'm going to be avoid doing PvP until that shit is patched out or something.

 

[Condiments]

I don't get it either. Saying dying over and over is a selling point is just weird to me. My friend rented it and we were playing it but we just got so bored. I don't see how finishing off a tough boss is a good payoff after taking the trip to get to him about 30 times.
I play games for relaxation and escapism, not for work.

Don't we all die endlessly to our peers in any multiplayer oriented games in order to acquire the skills to win more often?

There is absolutely no reason a player should lose that many times to a boss if they adjust their strategy based on how they've lost before, or keep attention in battle.

 

[Rad Party God]

Breaking News, someone dies a lot in a hard game and starts whining.

In another news, nobody gives a shit.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Hey, wasn't the OP the brainchild accusing Dark Souls of being a rip-off of Skyrim?

My thoughts exactly. Because he is.

 

[Watchmacallit]

I'm not the OP but I beat the "lava spider" with only spells, didn't melee her once. In fact, I found it more difficult when I did try to melee her the first time.

I meant with pyromancy...I met a guy that was around lvl 70 that barely did damage to it with pyromancy. I was targeting pyromancy specifically because the OP seems to think it is over-powered.