Having difficulty understanding transgendered people? I'll try to help.

[Mong0]

Well, I'm not at all confused about them, but I don't think that sex reassignments change ones sex any more than clipping the thorns off of a rose makes it a tulip. I only consider sex to be a biological and genetic classification, and that is my right.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

So, here's my question:

Notwithstanding XX Male syndrome (which is exceptionally rare), what would be your thoughts on a person whose attitude is this: "I have no problem with trans people, I acknowledge that Gender Identity Disorder is a real thing and that being trans isn't a choice, and I would never discriminate against nor harm someone for it. It's your body and you have the right to do whatever you want with it. However, chromosomes determine sex, and thus no matter how many surgeries you have or how many hormones you take, as far as I'm concerned you'll always be a man (or woman, or whatever the case may be)"?

In other words, how much does it matter that others acknowledge your identified gender even if it doesn't affect their behavior towards you?

Honestly? It's fine, I respect the position. Just if it comes to them referring to me as my birth sex instead of the gender I identify as, we're gonna have problems. If you see me as male because that's how I was born, that's alright. But making my life harder by not respecting my identity is not alright. Basically use the right pronouns and respect how I am, I'll do my best to reciprocate the gesture.

But doesn't that, by its very nature, require the person to essentially betray their own beliefs to accommodate your feelings? I get that it's not particularly difficult, and something one should do out of courtesy, but telling someone "I know you don't actually believe I'm female, but you need to refer to me using female pronouns anyway" sort of feels like, for example, a Christian telling an Atheist "it's fine that you and I have fundamental disagreements, and I'm ok with that, but you still have to tell me you believe there is a God, because otherwise I'm offended".

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

But doesn't that, by its very nature, require the person to essentially betray their own beliefs to accommodate your feelings? I get that it's not particularly difficult, and something one should do out of courtesy, but telling someone "I know you don't actually believe I'm female, but you need to refer to me using female pronouns anyway" sort of feels like, for example, a Christian telling an Atheist "it's fine that you and I have fundamental disagreements, and I'm ok with that, but you still have to tell me you believe there is a God, because otherwise I'm offended".

Apples and Oranges I'm afraid. Like I said I'm not asking for you to go out of your way. It'd be just as offensive for a Christian to demand an atheist to say they believe in god, as an atheist demand a Christian to state that there is no god. On the other hand I'm not asking you to support my identity, just respect it. If you called a biological cisgender woman a man, or a cisgender man a woman, they'd be very insulted, I'm just asking you to apply those rules as to how they fit me best. You don't have to agree, but I'm not asking you to deny, or confirm the existence of god either. To be blunt, ignoring my wishes is just plain rude, where as respecting them doesn't fundamentally destroy your beliefs either. Your example was basically making an unreasonable demand, my wish to be refereed to as the gender I identify as isn't.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

You put it in your last sentence in that post, it was a joke...Like again I have to question if people take the internet too seriously anymore.

No, I said treat your position. Not you. Your opinions are not you, because opinions change. Well, so do bodies, but as a concrete object of the senses, you are you.

But sure, vocal opposition changes stuff. Doesn't mean that the vocal opposition could easily do more harm and go way too far. My mother's still got a bit of a thing when it comes to Malcom X where she just shivers a bit because he terrified her as a kid.

And guidelines should be expected, but strict rules? Sorry, but the idea of educating the ignorant runs against the strict rule setup. You are going to get stupid questions when people don't know all you do. And going so far as to start insulting and declaring you an enemy to transpersonhood because of that and refusing to answer questions that you haven't approved? Way too far and sorta not what understanding should be about. For the record, that is something I've actually been accused of by some crazies, so please don't tell me that it's just a case of the internet warping perception. People take things far too seriously and apparently forget how to laugh when they get on.

Sorry for sounding heartless, but I got bullied everyday at school, by virtue I do not label every student a 'fucking arsehole'. I label the people who did bully me 'arseholes.' Generalities do nothing but display your confirmation bias, beause you and I know the grand majority of trans people are not like that. (Edit) Also, rules, guidelines ... whatever. Semantics. They're there for a reason. Because it makes the dialogue civil. At least tries to.

Be respectful in how you address people and how you talk about them in relation to your question. And also, no trans person is required to answer any of your questions in general. No person is required to have to listen to you. If you yourself write something fairly nasty sounding, and write it off as 'sorry, tired.' Why exactly is this an excuse? Just, before you call it 'language police' or whatever. Repeat the question out loud, and imagine it in ANY social setting. Would you use that language?

If the answer is 'yes' ... then is it really unreasonable for someone to excuse themselves?

If the answer is 'no' ... then why is it any better to use it here?

Pretty basic rule. Anyone can use it.

OT: So exactly what is your personal thoughts on transgenders(pre-op, transexual, whatever the correct word is for the ones that still their original junk) asking out straight, "normal", people and getting rejected once it comes to light? Transphobic or just sorta being a straight person and wanting genitals that don't look like their own? In addition, should a person feel obligated(wrong word, but I think I'm getting the idea out, just got off work, sorry) to date a transperson they have no sexual interest in because of the above because they're a "real" woman(not trying to be a dick here, just trying to be clear and differentiate) and there's not a substantial difference?

'Cis' ... this is why this is a good term when talking about trans people comparable to cis people. Because you avoid sounding like a dick. It's also been mentioned in the OP. Also; "no sexual inerest in because of the above as they see trans women as women." Far less complicated. Also, of course it's not transphobic. Why should anyone be obligated to date anyone? A better question to ask is why the hell would a trans woman want to be in this relationship in the first place? People want to be loved ...

The thing is, I've found plenty of people who like me as I am. Surely this would be a better relationship to aim for than a loveless one? I haven't found 'love', I've come close. And I consider physical intimacy and compatibility of sexual chemistry to be a pretty central aspect of a loving relationship.

But again, acting paranoid constantly is not healthy at all. Just because you MIGHT have something like that happen to you is not grounds for acting like it already did that day and taking it out on the people you are saying you want to help understand. And I have to say, where do you all live that you have to live the way you seem to have to? Most people I meet I can bet you either don't know anything about trans, or don't care enough to bring it up, much less make fun of.

I live in Sydney. Well, DID live in Sydney. Kinda more Eastern Suburbs now.

It's also not paranoia when ALL the things I said did happen to me. It's not paranoia if it happens to you, you suddenly believe it's never safe to ever let down your guard. It's not paranoia when it continues to happen to other Australian youth. And the youth halfway lodges in Australia are run mostly by Christian groups, many of whom will spit curses at you and make your life a general Hell ... probably because we'll end up there anyways in their eyes.

It's also mighty scary when a lot of LGBTQ teenage runaways and homeless are because of family abuse due to them being outed or coming out voluntarily. You can see why this cmbination of Christian zealotry in boarding houses and a lot of homeless LGBTQ youth on the streets causes a whole lot of problems. A lot of times you have to flee the abuse, again. And then there's no real avenues for you after that.

You can see why simply writing it off as 'paranoia' is pretty insensitive now? Paranoia assumes an irrational fear of something. If it happens with family who are supposed to love you, then why exactly wouldn't you fear the same rejection with roommates, who are essentially strangers?

Whether you think this is bad or not is irrelevant. It's there for a reason.

As for your martial art question, there's a couple of things you could check out, TaeKwonDo is probably the easiest you can find(I know there's like six courses around where I live done by different people), but is largely more like a competitive sport and fitness routine than fully practical unless you get decently advanced in most situations you'd probably be in around bars.

Krav Maga is also a decent technique you can probably find at least one in pretty much any city you're in anymore given how popular it's become, but has a bit of emphasis on fully incapacitating someone normally by way of breaking bones and injuring the more sensitive parts of a person's body as soon as possible, so may not be the one you're looking for since you said you were looking to not get sued.

Personally I'd advocate for alot of the Southern Chinese styles, alot of them are based in self-defense scenarios historically. But the two I know the most about are HungGa and Win-Chung(I may be remembering this name wrong). Krav Maga is sorta a mix of bastardization and descendent of a couple of these styles. Bonus too, since both have somewhat popular visual aids for what it sorta looks like.

The former is essentially Earth-Bending(as in, the animations in Avatar were based on this one), alot of emphasis on having solid footing and having strikes hit with the full strength of your body as opposed to most that have you just using your leg or arm mostly with origination coming from elsewhere. One of the most versatile styles if I remember right, lots of "strong" blocks and hits that hit with the full force, but not a huge amount of grappling since that normally screws your footing up. Ok, I sorta lie, the grappling they do have is more like grabbing their arms and head, holding them, and then going to town on their abdomen and kidneys if you have a free arm. Or just grabbing an overextended appendage and getting them off their footing to again go to town on their abdomen and kidneys.

Also a VERY good fitness routine, considering alot of early training is based on building core strength and stability and the liberal use of weighted rings on arms by just standing in the forms for minutes on end, stretching, and then switching to a new form. This obviously speeds up as you progress, though the rings get a bit heavier. If nothing else, I'd advise you learning some of the basic forms and techniques if you want to build strength for any other things you do.

Win-Chung(again, I may be telling you the wrong name, sorry.) is essentially what they use in Arrow alot of the time, heavily defensive style with a few kicks. Mostly focused on angled blocking and dodges to dissipate a hit's strength and basically having your opponent wear themselves out on you or just screw up entirely because they tried to hit you too hard and overbalanced, meaning you can go in for a nasty little strike.

Two problems though. The first is me, I'm a few years out of date, the guy I started Hung Ga with died a few years ago, and before that, I sorta had to stop because I've had one knee constantly injured by random things throughout my life, and it eventually is going to stop working because of them, so I had to heavily tone down what I did and I could easily be remembering this wrong. The second is that both of these are going to be sorta rare to find outside of major port cities I think, in the U.S. at least, I don't know where you live. Neither are immensely popular, but they get the job done and allow you to fight in decently small spaces. And as Kyuubi has said, Judo is ok as well, but still requires a substantial amount of upper body strength and needs a bit of space to use to the fullest extent, like, more than you'd expect, which you say you're lacking.

Very much lacking in upper body strength. But I'll check out to se if any of these are available through the university I go to.

 

[Dark Knifer]

Gender is a social construct.
Sort of. Gender roles are a social construct, but they also have a natural role. You can't expect a male lion to suckle the young, they don't produce milk. Similar can be applied to male humans. Human males can use formula to feed babies, but that's a technological ability. We can make formula. Gender roles are both natural and social. As humans we have more social gender roles. But they developed over our evolution. But identity is more than just roles. Gender identity is part of how we express ourselves and not everyone fits in the same categories. Not even all men and all women fit their birth gender roles, but for transgendered individuals we identify as the opposite sex.

So what does identifying as a gender mean? Most people identify as a gender but I get confused what that means. As a cis straight man I don't think about my gender much. Maybe that's because I'm not ridiculed for it so I don't think about it but I assume I identify with my gender but basically does gender it entail personality traits, preferences in general life, appearance? What does it mean to identify?

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

seeing them as higher risk of assault which, well ... unfortunately goes without saying.

One of many reasons why I prefer wearing steel-toed boots when outside, even if it is a grey area according to the law when used outside construction zones.

I think I could get away with it given I ride a motorbike.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

So what does identifying as a gender mean? Most people identify as a gender but I get confused what that means. As a cis straight man I don't think about my gender much. Maybe that's because I'm not ridiculed for it so I don't think about it but I assume I identify with my gender but basically does gender it entail personality traits, preferences in general life, appearance? What does it mean to identify?

But basically all self identity is the reference point for how your see yourself, people can identify with fictional characters, it's all about who you are in your own mind. Now when identifying as a member of the opposite sex, that's part of that reference point. A trans person may not fit all the opposite gender's gender roles, wear the same clothes, or behave the same way, though many do. Where it comes in as, well people have refereed to it as being similar to Phantom Limb/Phantom Itch/Phantom Pain amputees often feel, the limb is gone but you could swear you still feel it. For a trans person, it means being born in to what in your mind is the wrong gender.

 

[Dark Knifer]

So what does identifying as a gender mean? Most people identify as a gender but I get confused what that means. As a cis straight man I don't think about my gender much. Maybe that's because I'm not ridiculed for it so I don't think about it but I assume I identify with my gender but basically does gender it entail personality traits, preferences in general life, appearance? What does it mean to identify?

But basically all self identity is the reference point for how your see yourself, people can identify with fictional characters, it's all about who you are in your own mind. Now when identifying as a member of the opposite sex, that's part of that reference point. A trans person may not fit all the opposite gender's gender roles, wear the same clothes, or behave the same way, though many do. Where it comes in as, well people have refereed to it as being similar to Phantom Limb/Phantom Itch/Phantom Pain amputees often feel, the limb is gone but you could swear you still feel it. For a trans person, it means being born in to what in your mind is the wrong gender.

So its a mindset basically? Well I can see how trying to actualize that would be difficult. If it makes people happy I'm glad but I'd like to learn more about it. So its something that bothers people and they can't put their finger on until until they make this realization and that puts it into perspective? Hope I'm understanding this right.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

So its a mindset basically? Well I can see how trying to actualize that would be difficult. If it makes people happy I'm glad but I'd like to learn more about it. So its something that bothers people and they can't put their finger on until until they make this realization and that puts it into perspective? Hope I'm understanding this right.

It's more a sense of despair in the face of lacking a means to marry flesh and mind from the beginning. About authentcity of character and shaping the self. Allowing oneself to be open with others in how they wish to be, and how they wish others to associate. Being true unto oneself. It's hard to articulate, primarily because it's like an existential crisis for most since their earliest thoughts. They know they are wrong, and want to correct that wrongness. That deficiency. So that they can be owners of, and embody, truth of character and self.

 

[NoeL]

Dude, I never called PaulH anything, if you're going to say I said something, please at least make an attempt to use what I wrote.

I was referring to this:

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

This is sorta the attitude and mentality I'm talking about.

You made a claim that "the majority" of out trans people (specifically MtF) "go apeshit over simple things", that "alot"[sic] of them "don't have a sense of humor when it comes to them", and implied that they're mostly "intolerable douches". When PaulH justifiably took offence to this (even if their response was out of proportion) you dismissed them as just another crazy with a bad attitude instead of bothering to consider why you got that reaction. It's like strolling around calling all black people niggers then saying "Boy, black people sure are intolerable douches!" when they act hostile towards you.

Now, can you contribute to answering any of the questions I've yet to have answered? Because that's all I'm interested in here.

I'm not trans so can't really speak for them there, but I will say in response to your dating question that it would be pretty unreasonable for a trans person to get offended by you declining a date because of their genitals, and I don't think that many trans people would hold it against you if you weren't into it. And no, I doubt they'd think you obligated to do it anyway - no one wants to be with someone that finds them unattractive.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

No questions here, really. Though that might just be experience with having a good friend who's trans. I thought your post was quite nice as an attempt of inviting discussion.

At the same time we have the freedom to not acknowledge an identity choice for our own conclusions, and I'm uncomfortable with trannies being allowed into bathrooms that don't match their biological sex.

She acknowledges that in her post, but is it really that difficult if you just happened to know someone was trans to refer to them as their preferred gender identity for the prospective few seconds you'd actually have to interact with them? It's really not that horrible. People seem to just take something being separated from their definition of 'normal' as somehow wrong, and then view that as grounds to be an asshole. It's not.

Why are you uncomfortable with trans people using the bathrooms associated with their gender identity? What makes you think that's an issue? Hell, someone could easily pass for a woman and you'd never fucking know she was trans. Also, gender and biological sex are different concepts that get completely associated with each other far too often.

And for Christ's sake, she said in her post that tranny is typically a frowned-upon term and you used it anyway. I think that's not really setting a good standard for any manner of discussion.

"She"

You mean it.

I don't care, they don't belong in those bathrooms because it opens many legal pathways of which shouldn't be "I'm genderfluid so I can use whatever I want" and other shit like that.

By your line of thought which bathroom should I use? I present as female even better than male, wouldn't you have just as much of an issue with me using the Men's Room as the Women's? Should I just be banned from public restrooms as a general rule? In the case it'd freak men right out if I just waltzed in to a Men's restroom, that'd cause a problem. Banning me from public restrooms would be massive discrimination, and in all honestly would be more bullshit than the argument you posed. The sets a legal precedent arguement is more than a bit dumb in this case, because if someone is abusing such protections, they'll get called on it.

Also haven't we already made it perfectly clear that using words like tranny, or referring to trans people as "it" us pretty much universally unacceptable?

 

[Sleepy Sol]

"She"

You mean it.

I don't care, they don't belong in those bathrooms because it opens many legal pathways of which shouldn't be "I'm genderfluid so I can use whatever I want" and other shit like that.

Lemme set something straight here.

You are referring to a human being, just like you and me, as an 'it.' Do you not realize how insulting that can be after someone's expressed over and over that they feel that they're a woman in spite of their birth sex? How is it a big deal to at least try to respect that? Or be polite about how you disagree? I suppose I could call you an it based on part of your identity that you can't change, because I guess that's the standard of discussion we've set here.

I don't even understand how the bathroom thing has ever been an issue. Transpeople aren't rape-crazy or something. They're normal people in the sense that they have to deal with biological processes like the rest of us, and that they're humans with their own feelings, desires, general...adherence to regular behavior that would go on in a bathroom. What the hell is the issue here?

I'm not going to get into genderfluid stuff because I have little knowledge about the concept and am still rather skeptical of it at times. But in the case of transpeople, they still fall within pretty binary gender classifications. I don't see how that's some slippery slope to an apparent dystopia where people are changing their gender identity as they please to in some sort of manipulative bid to do...whatever it is you seem to be concerned about.

 

[Poetic Nova]

I do have one question, for you or anyone else knowledgeable: What, exactly, is the difference between bisexual and pansexual? I've never been able to get a clear answer from anywhere, including a friend of mine who is himself transgender and very active in the LGBT community. Thanks in advance.

Bisexuality mean that you don't mind if your partner is male or female. It's is either/both the character and/or looks that count. As for pansexual, someone needs to correct me on this if needed, and sorry if I sound blunt, a person can be attracted to someone who possibly doesn't fall under the gender binary but also to those who do. It's seen as a subset of bisexuality.

I do have to ask, why would anybody want to wear women's clothing if not just for a fun few hours if they don't have a woman's body though? Don't listen to Alex from LRR, dresses are supremely uncomfortable the couple of times I've worn them(very long stories) and I still have trouble understanding how most heels (and suits) have stayed around for so long.

Should've answered this one the first time around, anyway:
Getting back to your questions (and sorry if it took longer than expected). There are people who are cisgendered but feel more comfortable wearing clothes from the opposite gender. May it be for comfort, something that happend in their life or otherwise.

OT: So exactly what is your personal thoughts on transgenders(pre-op, transexual, whatever the correct word is for the ones that still their original junk) asking out straight, "normal", people and getting rejected once it comes to light? Transphobic or just sorta being a straight person and wanting genitals that don't look like their own? In addition, should a person feel obligated(wrong word, but I think I'm getting the idea out, just got off work, sorry) to date a transperson they have no sexual interest in because of the above because they're a "real" woman(not trying to be a dick here, just trying to be clear and differentiate) and there's not a substantial difference?

Personally, I would rather tell them beforehand. If they don't like it then I would pass up on them, even moreso if they suddenly decide to ***** that I'm not a real women or something alogn those lines. However If they respect me for who I am, there still might be a friendship. Though, I think it is understandable if they don't want to date someone who still has the genitals that goes against their 'taste' so to speak (sorry if this sounds wrong, folks, no mean to disrespect, just a lack for a better word atm). Since it can go against, well with a lack of a better word, their nature if they are straight. However, if we talk about post GRS then the story would be completely diffirent. But it might be me talking since I don't even like what I have between my legs.
I would rather date someone who is transgender aswell or bisexual to possibly avoid these kind of situations.

And my question from earlier, when do you think a transperson should "come out", in terms of age and pretending we live in the ideal world for trans persons, and what events lead up to it to hint and convince the person or if there is any indication you know of personally that would mean someone essentially just going through a phase and not actually trans? Vice versa goes without saying I think.

That's is all up to the person him/herself really, it is something that they have to find out themself.
From my own experience and from what my mother observed, there were already signs that I was born in the wrong body when I was 5/6 y/o. However, it took me untill puberty took place for me to finally put the so called puzzle together.

Well, rather large post that I do rarely. Hope I didn't skip any of your questions.

"She"

You mean it.

I don't care, they don't belong in those bathrooms because it opens many legal pathways of which shouldn't be "I'm genderfluid so I can use whatever I want" and other shit like that.

People like you are the reason why I'm afraid to come out (which I have to do anyway).
Have some respect, will ya?

 

[ToastiestZombie]

What are your thoughts on parents allowing their children to take hormone-altering drugs and possibly even undergo surgery before they turn 18? Do you believe that children can be coerced into becoming transgender when they're simply showing signs of being gender-confused? I'd like to know your thoughts.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

What are your thoughts on parents allowing their children to take hormone-altering drugs and possibly even undergo surgery before they turn 18? Do you believe that children can be coerced into becoming transgender when they're simply showing signs of being gender-confused? I'd like to know your thoughts.

Some would argue that hormone therapy might be more advantageous when introduced around puberty, as that's often when a trans individual begins feeling gender dysphoria acutely enough to be diagnosed. The only benefit I can think of is that the child in question wouldn't have to go through the "wrong" puberty. But that would be something that would need to be addressed with a mental health professional, all the appropriate doctors, and with permission of the parents. Kind of something that's not likely to happen.

As for surgical treatment, on the other hand, I'm a bit dubious on it's worth early on. Since not all trans individuals actively seek surgery at all and many, like myself, find Gender Reassignment Surgery to be unnecessary for various reasons. I'd say wait on GRS until age 18, or later if possible, it's one thing that takes extremely careful planning and consideration, you don't want to be stuck with something you may hate more than what you had. Plus GRS has some potential risks that need to be carefully weighed.

As for being able to coerce someone into being trans? I don't think so. Gender identity issues need to be diagnosed before any treatment can start, which can take a while just to pin them down. I don't think it'd ever be a good idea to start pressing transition at any level on someone who hasn't at least reached puberty, if possible at a somewhat later stage. Since transgenderism is a complex enough subject in adults, I don't think you'd find medical professionals very keen on the idea of transition before adulthood, and most parents probably won't do it. That's assuming that said child is even "out," or has accepted that they might have gender identity issues, usually the latter comes around adulthood.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

What are your thoughts on parents allowing their children to take hormone-altering drugs and possibly even undergo surgery before they turn 18? Do you believe that children can be coerced into becoming transgender when they're simply showing signs of being gender-confused? I'd like to know your thoughts.

Some would argue that hormone therapy might be more advantageous when introduced around puberty, as that's often when a trans individual begins feeling gender dysphoria acutely enough to be diagnosed. The only benefit I can think of is that the child in question wouldn't have to go through the "wrong" puberty. But that would be something that would need to be addressed with a mental health professional, all the appropriate doctors, and with permission of the parents. Kind of something that's not likely to happen.

As for surgical treatment, on the other hand, I'm a bit dubious on it's worth early on. Since not all trans individuals actively seek surgery at all and many, like myself, find Gender Reassignment Surgery to be unnecessary for various reasons. I'd say wait on GRS until age 18, or later if possible, it's one thing that takes extremely careful planning and consideration, you don't want to be stuck with something you may hate more than what you had. Plus GRS has some potential risks that need to be carefully weighed.

Oh, I don't know ... I've met many people who *really* hate what they have. Assuming we lived in a fantasy land where parents don't kick you out on street, assuming if every person was born into a warm, stable family dynamic. Certain proceedures are only electable after a certain amount of time on HRT, to begin with. So I totally would have bugged my parents for something like HRT, and then an orchiectomy back when I was a young to mid teen. You know, if it wasn't for the whole homeless thing.

It lowers the anti-androgens necessary in the drug regimen for the average patient. It's one less thing to worry about during teenage years. I can only talk from personal experience, but I would have loved if someone gave me the option for HRT and an orchiectomy well before 18. Internet is more of a thing than when I was a teenager, so teenagers are better clued in to what they want than ever before. If a kid shows increased psychological stability on HRT, and really wants some form of GRS (there are multiple types) .... ehhh. Seems cruel to say no. Particularly if it helps them be healthier, happier and safer.

For example, yes an orchiectomy is permanent. But then again, if someone has no desire to ever cease HRT then infertility is kind of a given after a year on it.

 

[Random Fella]

Gender is genetic.
Genetics plays a huge role in the sex development of people. That said not everyone is born with physical parts their genes suggest. For example I have "XX Male Syndrome" which means I am genetically female, but I was born male physically. Some women have XY chromosomes, more surprising is some people have more chromosomes for sex than others. Some men are born with two Y chromosomes and no X Chromosome. But that doesn't define how we identify. We're all humans, but some people identify as non-human animals, or objects, for example. While physical birth sex is often genetic, it doesn't control identity, or sexual preference for that matter.

Uhh, can you provide proof of this?
Because I'm quite sure that's not how genetics works.

 

[Lilani]

What are your thoughts on parents allowing their children to take hormone-altering drugs and possibly even undergo surgery before they turn 18? Do you believe that children can be coerced into becoming transgender when they're simply showing signs of being gender-confused? I'd like to know your thoughts.

Well, the entire point of hormone therapy to delay puberty is to put off and minimize all physical changes so the child can undergo therapy and get their feelings sorted out, so that later on they can make a more definitive answer. It isn't a step toward any change one way or another, merely a way of stalling for time while they get things sorted.

Sex change operations and hormone therapy aren't done merely as one-shot solutions. They happen over the course of many months or years, along with extensive therapy to make the person completely comfortable in whatever decision they make. There are degrees of "sex-change operations" just as there are degrees of gender. Sometimes they do the full operation and get all of their physical attributes "changed," sometimes they do not. Sometimes they do extensive hormone therapy, sometimes they do not. The goal is to reconcile their inner feeling of gender dysphoria with their outward appearance, and how much therapy or physical changes are necessary to reconcile this depends entirely on the person. Being transgender is that state of gender dysphoria or being "gender-confused," not simply having sex reassignment surgery.

As for whether or not a child can be "coerced" into becoming transgender, I guess the answer is that somebody can try, but my greater concern lies in all of the transgender children who are coerced into believing they are NOT transgender, and do not get the treatments and therapy they need. Given how tormented these children often become, I imagine the results would be the same as anybody else who tries to defy what their child believes their gender identity to be. At least with a child who is coerced into treatments for gender dysphoria, they are also seeing a therapist who will be able to determine whether or not they actually have gender dysphoria. This is a much better situation than the children who never get any therapy or helpful answers for what they're going through. But again, I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Oh, I don't know ... I've met many people who *really* hate what they have. Assuming we lived in a fantasy land where parents don't kick you out on street, assuming if every person was born into a warm, stable family dynamic. Certain proceedures are only electable after a certain amount of time on HRT, to begin with. So I totally would have bugged my parents for something like HRT, and then an orchiectomy back when I was a young to mid teen. You know, if it wasn't for the whole homeless thing.

It lowers the anti-androgens necessary in the drug regimen for the average patient. It's one less thing to worry about during teenage years. I can only talk from personal experience, but I would have loved if someone gave me the option for HRT and an orchiectomy well before 18. Internet is more of a thing than when I was a teenager, so teenagers are better clued in to what they want than ever before. If a kid shows increased psychological stability on HRT, and really wants some form of GRS (there are multiple types) .... ehhh. Seems cruel to say no. Particularly if it helps them be healthier, happier and safer.

For example, yes an orchiectomy is permanent. But then again, if someone has no desire to ever cease HRT then infertility is kind of a given after a year on it.

I understand your position, personally I believe that HRT's benefits outweigh the risks. There are lots of medical benefits for starting earlier, one is of course being on fewer anti-androgen, plus the added benefits it can have with mental health as well. Still it's something that requires therapy on the mental health side, doctors to sign off it, parental approval... In a perfect world it should be an option, but not before puberty, because starting too early can cause damage to a person's development.

Any surgical procedures have inherent risks, so they always need to be carefully and cautiously considered, you have to be absolutely certain the benefits out weigh the risks. Also it can be dangerous to make physical and cosmetic changes to a person while they're still developing, it's why I detest child beauty pageant participant getting cosmetic surgery. Their bodies are changing and rapidly, at the minimum they'll need more surgery to keep up with growth and surgical procedures are dangerous. There are potential moral issues for me on the whole subject. I still think it should be taken on a case by case basis.

On a final note, children and teens don't have the ability to consent to a contract before adulthood, there is an important reason for this. Children, adolescents, and teens are not responsible enough to make such life changing decisions. What they want, versus what is actually good for them can be worlds apart. Options should be present, but professionals and parents need to be involved to help identify what the best choice actually is.

If only we lived in a world where this was a general possibility, rather than in one where people, more often than not, completely loose their minds over transgenderism being inherently wrong.

Well, the entire point of hormone therapy to delay puberty is to put off and minimize all physical changes so the child can undergo therapy and get their feelings sorted out, so that later on they can make a more definitive answer. It isn't a step toward any change one way or another, merely a way of stalling for time while they get things sorted.

Sex change operations and hormone therapy aren't done merely as one-shot solutions. They happen over the course of many months or years, along with extensive therapy to make the person completely comfortable in whatever decision they make. There are degrees of "sex-change operations" just as there are degrees of gender. Sometimes they do the full operation and get all of their physical attributes "changed," sometimes they do not. Sometimes they do extensive hormone therapy, sometimes they do not. The goal is to reconcile their inner feeling of gender dysphoria with their outward appearance, and how much therapy or physical changes are necessary to reconcile this depends entirely on the person. Being transgender is that state of gender dysphoria or being "gender-confused," not simply having sex reassignment surgery.

As for whether or not a child can be "coerced" into becoming transgender, I guess the answer is that somebody can try, but my greater concern lies in all of the transgender children who are coerced into believing they are NOT transgender, and do not get the treatments and therapy they need. Given how tormented these children often become, I imagine the results would be the same as anybody else who tries to defy what their child believes their gender identity to be. At least with a child who is coerced into treatments for gender dysphoria, they are also seeing a therapist who will be able to determine whether or not they actually have gender dysphoria. This is a much better situation than the children who never get any therapy or helpful answers for what they're going through. But again, I've never heard of such a thing.

I agree with this sentiment. As I said to PaulH the options need to be present, but it's still up to professionals and parents to help decide what the right course of action is. Just because children and teenagers can't always make the best decisions about their life. Yeah we need to see more support for children and teens with gender dysphoria, sadly that starts with parents, who often have no clue how to handle the situation. So they find it easier to deny there is an issue, that their child is different from any other, and thus sweep it under the rug.

Edit: Well sweep it under the rug and deny it's existence in the best of times, usually. More often than not trans children are abused, to beat the trans/gay out of them. Other times they're sent away to have the behaviour corrected in counter productive ways.