Hawking Warns Humanity to Avoid Dangerous Aliens

[Treblaine]

err, nobody is psychic

smartass

You can't xenoform billions of trillions of tons of water out of nowhere like you have with planet earth. The atmosphere is much easier to alter because by mass there is far less of it.

No but comets that are 99% water burn up nicely on reentry and turn into normal water. If you broke the universe's ultimate speed limit it probably isn't that hard to do little tow job. Though what I want to know is where are you getting your figure from? Do you have any idea how much mass is in the atmosphere? About five quadrillion tons and no I am not making that up the atmosphere is fucking huge.

Well the problem with comets is two fold with Comets:

Gravitational Potential Energy and

Kinetic Energy

Comets are of massive size and travel at extraordinary speeds, fast enough to pass so close to the gravity of the sun and yet still shoot right out away to the very edge of our solar system. Even then there is the fact that they are very "high" above the gravitational centre of a potential habitable planet, it is incredibly hard to get it to land on the planet without it impacting so hard as to blast most of its icy material back out into space.

It is going to be REALLY HARD to capture enough comets, land them on a potential (quite dry) planet without turning it into a hell-planet of storms and obscuring clouds. It seems that the Earth might have originally obtained (some of) it's water from comets or comet like space debris but it would only have occurred steadily over several hundred million years and taken many more millions of years for things to calm down.

No, playing paint-ball with comets is a step above geo-engineering or xenoforming, that is cosmo-engineering, you would have to deal with such huge energy and power (yes, they are distinct from each other) requirements, so great it would be easier just to spend that energy maintaining the artificial life systems in the alien fleet that brought them there.

Ok, so it is not impossible.

But you have to admit, if a wayward group of aliens are desperate to find a (one day) habitable planet they are better off finding some chatty planet that is broadcasting its existence and just have to deal with a few hundred years of nuclear exchange than have to bother with a hundred millenia trying to hydrate a dead planet in some other part of the galaxy.

oh and xeno-forming an atmosphere would be easier as they likely would only have to "tweak" the concentrations, not completely remove and add volumes. Like more oxygen, less argon, add methane and so on.

 

[FalloutJack]

Hey, I love Hawking. Could anyone less-brilliant stand being paralyzed for life? Still, I feel he has a valid point. Sci-fi authors and movie-makers aren't just making this stuff for entertainment. Well, okay, they DO like to make money off of these things, but alot of the things that warn us of a dark and dystopian future are valid (especially since some of George Orwell's work is already true). These are warnings and prophecies. Being cautious around them, moreso than the people in the movies or books that don't know any better, is the wisdom of ages.

 

[Danpascooch]

...

...

...

Right, I've given my answer to your "Aliens would pwn us" argument on post 232 on page 7. Do you only read the first page?

You dirty alien collaborators, you should be ashamed of yourself.

You expect me to read 7 pages into every thread I look at?

How much free time do you have?

 

[bjj hero]

You expect me to read 7 pages into every thread I look at?

How much free time do you have?

Generally I won't post after page 5 or so, I've missed the start of the coversation and I'll move on.

If I'm commenting on something said on the first page I will read or scan through the rest to see if my point has already been made by someone else or if there's been further explanation.

Thats just how I roll...

 

[bz316]

Professor Hawking makes some good points. Some might argue that aliens that advanced would have no need of conflict, but that assumes they evolved a similar way to us. Maybe they wouldn't attack humanity out of cruelty or malice. Perhaps they evolved in such a fashion that they wouldn't understand concepts like physical suffering or compassion. It's not that they're evil conquerers, they're just so biologically different from us that things that might stay a human's hand would not stay theirs. Even if they did evolve along similar lines to us, that's no guarantee that they wouldn't attack us despite not needing too. How often have humans attacked others in the past, not out of necessity, but out of greed or simple desire for power, or some other unnecessary reason? However, I disagree with his assessment of their motivations. Attack us for resources? There are asteroids in our own solar system whose mass is completely composed of potentially valuable resources. Besides, what resources would a massively advanced alien species attack us for? Our vast deposits of timper, oil, and coal? Yes, I could see how that would be really useful for their vast, interstellar city-ships. Only thing on earth that might be even remotely valuable to them would be our planets small deposits of radioactive material and potentially salt-water (to get themselves some deterium).

 

[Brandon237]

The dominant creatures of a planet, would, like ourselves, be the ones with a tendency for violence and high impact on the environment. In short, Hawking is right (I'm actually reading one of his books, oddly enough) and if there are aliens that meet us as opposed to vice the versa, were screwed.

 

[Canid117]

err, nobody is psychic

smartass

You can't xenoform billions of trillions of tons of water out of nowhere like you have with planet earth. The atmosphere is much easier to alter because by mass there is far less of it.

No but comets that are 99% water burn up nicely on reentry and turn into normal water. If you broke the universe's ultimate speed limit it probably isn't that hard to do little tow job. Though what I want to know is where are you getting your figure from? Do you have any idea how much mass is in the atmosphere? About five quadrillion tons and no I am not making that up the atmosphere is fucking huge.

Well the problem with comets is two fold with Comets:

Gravitational Potential Energy and

Kinetic Energy

Comets are of massive size and travel at extraordinary speeds, fast enough to pass so close to the gravity of the sun and yet still shoot right out away to the very edge of our solar system. Even then there is the fact that they are very "high" above the gravitational centre of a potential habitable planet, it is incredibly hard to get it to land on the planet without it impacting so hard as to blast most of its icy material back out into space.

It is going to be REALLY HARD to capture enough comets, land them on a potential (quite dry) planet without turning it into a hell-planet of storms and obscuring clouds. It seems that the Earth might have originally obtained (some of) it's water from comets or comet like space debris but it would only have occurred steadily over several hundred million years and taken many more millions of years for things to calm down.

No, playing paint-ball with comets is a step above geo-engineering or xenoforming, that is cosmo-engineering, you would have to deal with such huge energy and power (yes, they are distinct from each other) requirements, so great it would be easier just to spend that energy maintaining the artificial life systems in the alien fleet that brought them there.

Ok, so it is not impossible.

But you have to admit, if a wayward group of aliens are desperate to find a (one day) habitable planet they are better off finding some chatty planet that is broadcasting its existence and just have to deal with a few hundred years of nuclear exchange than have to bother with a hundred millenia trying to hydrate a dead planet in some other part of the galaxy.

oh and xeno-forming an atmosphere would be easier as they likely would only have to "tweak" the concentrations, not completely remove and add volumes. Like more oxygen, less argon, add methane and so on.

Here is an Idea. Blow up the comets with your super bombs that any self respecting alien invaders would have then don't bother explaining genocide to the alien UN and alien hippies (if any) and haul the comet to a planet in pieces? If comets are as huge as you say it shouldn't take too long to make an ocean. Sadly the main flaw in your logic is still present. The assumption that oxygen or anything in our atmosphere is breathable to them. What if 99% of our atmosphere is poisonous to them? What if Oxygen causes their face to melt? (Yea implausible but about as likely as an invasion in the first place) What makes you so sure that their biology is so similar to ours that all they would need to do is "tweak" our atmosphere a bit?

 

[Treblaine]

Here is an Idea. Blow up the comets with your super bombs that any self respecting alien invaders would have then don't bother explaining genocide to the alien UN and alien hippies (if any) and haul the comet to a planet in pieces? If comets are as huge as you say it shouldn't take too long to make an ocean. Sadly the main flaw in your logic is still present. The assumption that oxygen or anything in our atmosphere is breathable to them. What if 99% of our atmosphere is poisonous to them? What if Oxygen causes their face to melt? (Yea implausible but about as likely as an invasion in the first place) What makes you so sure that their biology is so similar to ours that all they would need to do is "tweak" our atmosphere a bit?

I can't even BEGIN to start explaining why oxygen is such an icredibly likely re-agent in the metabolism of complex organic life-forms. Quite simply no other common element in the universe is wny where near suited for the job.

See oxidation (the general chemical reaction, not necessarily with oxygen molecules, if you can't tell the difference I won't bother explaining and you can just tune-out now) is a double edged sword.

A gaseous oxidiser on one hand it is a vital reagent to turn chemical energy into a useful form yet any spontaneous oxidation breaks down organic molecules. And Oxygen is ideal in terms of reactivity and its ability to make complex compounds along with carbon and nitrogen. Fluorine and chlorine are close but not up to the job.

See, these aliens will be TOTALLY different though there is a likelihood that their most basic metabolism will be the same ass ALL advanced life functions on earth, and that means oxygen.

Remember, the reason we have oxygen on our planet is it was formed from water molecules so water (considred essential for life) is inexorably linked with oxygen.

Nitrogen is the larger concern, it might cause narcosis (under the right conditions it causes narcosis in humans) but oxygen is very likely to be their fuel for metabolic reduction (that's reduction in the chemical sense).

 

[the idiot computer]

No,no,no you've all forgotten...

GERMS!!MICROSCOPIC GERMS!!

Who knows a sniffle might end an entire civilization.

 

[Michael Ludgate]

From the same man who professes that due to the sheer numbers of planets, that the existence of intelligent life is inevitable...

Yeah recap over that, 'the sheer number of planets'. Ok so millions of miles away, with many worlds closer and their gonna come for us? A planet already close to ruining itself?

And when they arrive on really big ships, they conquer the planet to find a new home. So these ships are so massive that a planet wont have enough space to accommodate them, and they're forced to move on looking for more?

 

[Abedeus]

So he's basically warning us from letting more advanced, more desperate HUMANS know we're here and can't predict their coming.

 

[Lord Of Cyberia]

What I wonder is that if a race was so advanced as to create a faster than light, or light speed method of propelling massive metal structures through space, couldn't they just mine the totally unoccupied asteroids, outside of a gravity well, and highly unlikely to be vaporized in a thermonuclear retaliatory strike because you just flattened Hong Kong?

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

Maybe I'm naive but I like to hope that the aliens are like the ones from Star Trek(not like the Borg though, HELL NO). Theres no reason we can't all be friends.

Chances are, if the aliens are peaceful and hospitable, we would probably be the warmongering idiots who declare war on them, forcing them to shove their boots straight up our behinds in retaliation. I think we should keep quiet for the sake of everything else out there, until we've sorted out all of our differences and domestic issues here on Earth.

 

[Canid117]

I can't even BEGIN to start explaining why oxygen is such an icredibly likely re-agent in the metabolism of complex organic life-forms.

I have a sneaking suspicion that you can't even "BEGIN" to explain because you don't know yourself and are just pulling shit out of your ass.

Quite simply no other common element in the universe is any where near suited for the job.

And you know this how? What if they are not carbon based lifeforms? Given that vastness of the universe that is an easy possibility
.

See oxidation (the general chemical reaction, not necessarily with oxygen molecules, if you can't tell the difference I won't bother explaining and you can just tune-out now) is a double edged sword.

Don't try to pretend you are the only one who payed attention in science class. Acting like an elitist prick does not impress me when I am fully aware of basic chemistry.

A gaseous oxidiser on one hand it is a vital reagent to turn chemical energy into a useful form yet any spontaneous oxidation breaks down organic molecules. And Oxygen is ideal in terms of reactivity and its ability to make complex compounds along with carbon and nitrogen. Fluorine and chlorine are close but not up to the job.

There are a wide array of complex molecules without any oxygen in them whatsoever. You could say "It can make life because it can combine with other stuff" about any gaseous element. And this is all chemistry in a lab. Lets try it all with the hundreds of millions of variables the chemistry that created life on earth combined with all the hundreds of millions of variables that could be just a little different on some other world that is habitable in a different way.

See, these aliens will be TOTALLY different though there is a likelihood that their most basic metabolism will be the same ass ALL advanced life functions on earth, and that means oxygen.

And what if they are not carbon based lifeforms? Then what? Why must their very base system of existence be the same as ours?

Remember, the reason we have oxygen on our planet is it was formed from water molecules so water (considered essential for life) is inexorably linked with oxygen.

Air is almost 80% Nitrogen and we can breath pure oxygen. What makes you so sure they are going to need oxygen? (If you haven't noticed I am kinda big on the "Lets not assume they aren't almost exactly like us" thing. Gene Rodenbury's conception of intelligent life in the universe can go fuck itself)

Nitrogen is the larger concern, it might cause narcosis (under the right conditions it causes narcosis in humans) but oxygen is very likely to be their fuel for metabolic reduction (that's reduction in the chemical sense).

And if Nitrogen just happens to be highly toxic to them? what then? Thank you for shooting your own argument in the foot. Let me remind you that nearly 80% of the atmosphere is nitrogen. If that much of some planet we intended on terraforming was 80% carbon monoxide we would say "Fuck that shit" and move on. They might depend on nitrogen much like we depend on oxygen but we don't know that for sure. This whole argument is a moot point seeing as how every radio broadcast gets sent out in all directions at the speed of light anyway so the only way to stop broadcasting to ET would be to stop using technology that communicates with electromagnetic radiation.


Now to show you that "Hey maybe there are space aliens out thar!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

 

[Russian_Assassin]

Inconceivable aliens? What, he means like Giygas? He's probably right though, we can't be sure that the first race to contact us will be someone like the Asari, so it would be wise to shut our traps until they find us.

 

[Necromancer1991]

Yes I do believe meeting with any aliens will result in deatomization of our cities and will most likely end in extinction/indoctrination of the human race.

 

[Otterpoet]

Aliens = Christopher Columbus? Hell, we'd be lucky if that were true. Anything smart enough to transverse the distances of space will likely consider us hardly more intelligent than chimps. And when's the last time we ever had a really nice sit down and chat with a bunch of chimps? Human head ashtrays, anyone? We'd have better luck if Skynet popped out of the Internet. At least all it has are NUKES.

It's why these ancient alien technology people make me livid. How can they possibly think that a space-faring culture would arrive on a planet teeming with resources and then think, "Hey! These flesh-bags are pretty cute. Let's teach them how to build pyramids - one of the simplest architectural structure imaginable. Won't /that/ screw with their little heads?" It'd be like a bunch of drunken frat boys landing a helicopter in the Amazon jungle and teaching parrots how to build a tee-pee.