Heavy Rain Dev: "Let's Stop Making Games For Kids"

[joystickjunki3]

As long as the games industry does not focus solely on games the way Cage describes, then I'm cool.

[sarcasm]Yeah. They should stop making games that generate profit for a company, so they don't have any money to spend on a risky new game idea.[/sarcasm]

Some people in this industry aren't looking for massive profit, they just want to make great games. And it appears these people are working for either Sony or EA.

Which implies that devs like Treasure only care about profit.

 

[Capo Taco]

Fahrenheit / Indigo prophecy (for those that don't know, that's the same game, just localized) was a fun game. There were some nice experimentations in gameplay (identify the main character at the cop's... do you remember what he looks like?). There were also quite a bit of wiggle your joysticks bits that I hadn't played since my hand healed from "summer games" on the commodore. And then there were the QTE's. Ugh.

Oh well. Some games are good for kids. Some have good gameplay. Some have good stories. Could we try to market our games without shitting over the rest of the game community?

PS "Let's ask ourselves the real questions."
I wish he'd asked himself "What's the story I'm trying to tell" in Indigo prophecy, because he might have had a coherent ending that wasn't chock full of Deus ex Machinas.

 

[scotth266]

Quantic Dream makes good games, and the man raises good points. We need to show that games are a multi-age media, and not just for the younguns.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

I think I've confirmed my feeling that Heavy Rain is going to be rubbish. Sure, they've got a good point hidden in there somewhere, but I just feel that they're going to make a pretentious game which I won't enjoy.

Mmm, it is going to simulate real life in a way. Nothing to out of the box, but more of.. A psychological thriller? Something you could get attached to?

 

[Blind0bserver]

David Cage is a man after my own heart. The views on games as a medium, wanting to push boundaries, seeing the development of the story as important, hating children. You name it.

 

[joystickjunki3]

[sarcasm]Yeah. They should stop making games that generate profit for a company, so they don't have any money to spend on a risky new game idea.[/sarcasm]

Some people in this industry aren't looking for massive profit, they just want to make great games. And it appears these people are working for either Sony or EA.

Which implies that devs like Treasure only care about profit.

Never heard of them.

Really? I'm very surprised.

Assuming that wasn't sarcasm: They made games like Gunstar Heroes, Ikaruga, Radiant Silvergun, Alien Soldier, Guardian Heroes and Dynamite Headdy. Also Sin & Punishment and Silhouette Mirage.

Here's their wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_(company)

 

[Marv21]

Old lady: I want to play my stories!!!!

Kid: Okay grandma I'll pop in Hills: The game, into my Xbox

Old Lady: thanks dearie...I can't wait for the sequal...hand me that controller!

 

[joystickjunki3]

[sarcasm]Yeah. They should stop making games that generate profit for a company, so they don't have any money to spend on a risky new game idea.[/sarcasm]

Some people in this industry aren't looking for massive profit, they just want to make great games. And it appears these people are working for either Sony or EA.

Which implies that devs like Treasure only care about profit.

Never heard of them.

Really? I'm very surprised.

Assuming that wasn't sarcasm: They made games like Gunstar Heroes, Ikaruga, Radiant Silvergun, Alien Soldier, Guardian Heroes and Dynamite Headdy. Also Sin & Punishment and Silhouette Mirage.

Here's their wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_(company)

Nope, never played any of their games.

Huh. You should give them a try.

 

[Norman Rafferty]

Wait, since when was the video game market courting kids?

According to Wikipedia, of the top-10 selling games for the Playstation 3, five of them are rated M for Mature: GTA IV, MGS4, Heavenly Sword, Resistance: Fall of Man, and Killzone 2. The other five are all rated T for Teen -- there's not a single E title in the bunch.

On the Xbox 360 front, we have eight M's: Halo, Gears of War, Gears of War 2, GTA IV, Call of Duty (Both Modern Warfare & World at War), Fable II, and Assassin's Creed. They actually have one E title -- Forza 2, a racing game. The other one, Guitar Hero 2, is rated T. (Apparently pattern-matching is too intense for the 12 and under set?)

(Of course, the big standout is the Wii, with none of its top 10 titles above a T rating. But then again, "casual gaming is killing the market" is a common mantra these days.)

Now, as for his other thesis statement -- that game constantly ramp up the difficulty until people stop playing them -- there's actually been a lot of complaining about games NOT doing that, these days. Metal Gear Solid IV has been criticized for its ridiculous amount of cut-scene footage -- you know, time spent watching instead of playing. The recent Alone in the Dark advertised the ability to skip levels that were too hard to play as a "feature."

Weakness to push boundaries? The much ballyhooed Mass Effect had a sex scene in it. Fable I and Fable II constantly extol the virtues of "moral choices affecting your character." Bioshock gives your character material rewards for molesting under-age girls. World of Warcraft recently introduced a plague as a plot device ... and the CDC took notice of how real-world scenarios played out in the virtual world. No, boundaries are being pushed in both the indie corners and with the big players.

As for being "light years away" from powerful story-telling ... well, Mr. Cage is simply mistaken. Myst and its sequels have often been praised for their involving world design and for their compelling back story -- and those games are non-violent, non-sexy, non-mature-rated. And there are many more gamers who cried when Aeris died ... than who ever cared to see a Final Fantasy movie in theaters.

Mr. Cage is making a fallacious statement by saying that a story's not "real" if the game it's in is for "kids". As Pankyman just said, would EarthBound, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, and Mother 3 not have "real" stories? What about The Gregory Horror Show? Or Myst? Or Harry Potter, for that matter?

If there's a revolution to be made in gaming, it should be in developing a player-controlled immersion, not just cheap gimmicks as AO-rated cut scenes where we sit and watch like it's a DVD porno, or with cinematics of our characters saying and doing things we didn't choose to do, but rather that some developer put in our mouths, while telling us it's "story-telling."

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

I LOVE the sound of that. Bring on the Warhammer 40k-inspired bloody bloodness! Bleh! Bleh, I say! Bleeeeeeeehhhh!


But seriously, it's good to know at least one developer isn't devoted to Nintendo's new policy of Let's-Make-Some-Kid-Friendly-Crap-Tastic-Games-For-The-Wii-For-Fun-And-Profit strategy.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Mainly because games with "real" emotions and "adult" values get decried from both sides of the fence before they're released on Steam for $4.99.

Unless the games industry is treated like a proper industry then it can't afford to have splinter groups that target differing areas.

 

[Jumplion]

I'm very tempted to link to that GameOverthinker (moviebob) video, stopping making games for kids altogether is a very, very bad thing.

Exactly
To sum up the video for the people who didn't see it, He highlighted the downfall of the comic industry and said that it was because they stopped making comics for kids, therefore stopped attracting a new audience. This led to the comic makers not getting any more money so there was no money to make comics.

While I see your points, I think what he's more or less saying is that games should try to go for a more mature way of telling stories rather than just give an objective and "those guys are bad!" that you see in many games.

Video Games are alot like the movie industry in that there will always be the cheap action thrills that sells but there will be the beacon of awesomness in an amazing adventure that is a marvel in the media.

It's the same situation, games with a bunch of violence and gore and stuff will pretty much sell on the cheap thrills, but there is always a beacon or two of really awesome games that give you great stories.

Right now, games are extremely immature or at least the majority is. It relies on cliches, violence, and action to sell. Think up 5 movies that you loved that had a memorable story. Now think up 5 games with a memorable story. Maybe you're lucky and thought 5 up, but quite frankly there are very few memorable games that have a memorable storyline, at least in the mainstrem.

If Heavy Rain does what it's supposed to do, then it could very well be a brand new step in the right direction for more mature and thoughtful stories in games. Obviously the crazy action games will still be there.

And I disagree a bit with Moviebob on his behalf, I don't think he gives kids enough credit for what they want. He thinks that all they want is cutsy, cuddly, crap that goes in shovelware. I know plenty of my friends and other kids who play "M" games and love the more mature games, even if they do usually miss the point of the actual "mature" games.

I've said it before, I'll say it a hundred times:

If I want story, I'll read a book or watch a movie. I play games for game play mechanics; to engage in a social activity, or to stimulate the puzzle-solving parts of my brain. Story, characters, emotion: the potential is there and should be explored, but it should be secondary. Mechanics come first.

You know, if I wanted a story in my movies I'd read a book! Who gives a damn about stories in those movies anyhow, I paid my money for a crazy shoot-em-up beat-em-up action thriller! Hell, give me those comedies and I'm perfectly fine!

Aw hell, if I wanted a story at all I'd listen to my great grand-papi! If I wanted to read, I'd look up Playboys or just plain roadsigns! Screw readin', I bought that book to get some thrills! I don't want to pay for some stupid story about a boy who finds himself in the woods!

Okay, I'll stop...

While I do partially agree that some mechanics should come secondary to other mechanics, I see no reason why games can't intergrate storytelling and gameplay. I probably misread your post or got the wrong vibes out of it, but you seem like you think it's a bad thing that gaming is trying to get a deep and meaningful story out to the public.

 

[Jumplion]

Condense

I don't think Cage is saying that video games are being sold to children.

What he's really trying to say, at least from what I can see, is that video games right now cater to the juvinile and easily thrilled. There are loads of games with over-the-top violence and "bashn' dem alien heads!" but there aren't as many that actually tell a story that is mature and thoughtful and meant for adults mainly.

Face it, video games as an industry are really just cheap thrills right now. They're games meant for kids, the guys who just want action, not the people who want to have an experience on it's own.

That's what he's saying when he's saying "Video games need to stop selling to 'kids'". Stop advertising to the adolecent teenagers who want boobage and blood-age and make something that is the "Citizen Cane" or "2001: A Space Odessy" or "The Dark Knight", or whatever the hell is considered a brilliant movie nowadays, of gaming.

 

[MrSnugglesworth]

If they could mix both I'd be happy. If its just a story, why not just watch a movie.

 

[BioHazard19]

I think this is a good idea, but it seems more like an interactive movie than an actual game.

 

[samsonguy920]

Stopping making games for kids will either bring them into playing games for adults, which will screw up their heads beyond belief, or will actually do a good thing, and force them to find something else to do, like maybe play stickball outside. I doubt the second would happen, but this crack fantasy of Dave's ain't gonna happen anyway.