Hellboy Director Hates Game Cutscenes

[Shamanic Rhythm]

The thing that gets me about in game cutscenes is that you are suddenly forced out of second person perspective (from a narrative standpoint rather than a camera angle) and into third person. You go from being directly involved to being a spectator. As a player, I find that kind of insulting - particularly when the developer renders all the most important and awesome moments of a character through a cutscene.

And thank you for making me suddenly realize why I disagree so strongly with del Toro, because I don't go from being a participant to a spectator. Barring something like maybe MGS4 (never played it, but it seems the go-to negative comparison for length), I am the character(s) regardless of the level of control I have over them at a given moment. If I find the story worth my while in any way, I'm having fun at any given moment paying attention to it.

See I'd disagree with you over the idea that we're always the character, even during the cutscenes, but I think what's important is that they make games that cater to both our tastes, because ultimately no one's objectively right or wrong in terms of how we react to something like this.

 

[ckam]

I'm not a big fan of long cutscenes, but I like it when it's done right or well enough for me to forgive. I won't try to destroy every single cutscene in the universe, though. It still holds a place in this medium.

 

[Hal10k]

See I'd disagree with you over the idea that we're always the character, even during the cutscenes, but I think what's important is that they make games that cater to both our tastes, because ultimately no one's objectively right or wrong in terms of how we react to something like this.

Nonsense. Clearly there must always be an absolute victor in all matters of opinion, regardless of importance or actual bearing on reality. I demand that you two fight to the death.

 

[Treblaine]

Using a cutscene in a game is like using prose/narration in a movie... it should be used sparingly if at all!

Games need to tell story and narrative inside the game itself. A naturalistic storytelling, by involvement in the circumstance.

 

[st0pnsw0p]

Could someone explain all the cutscene hatred around here?

 

[Hitman Dread]

Could someone explain all the cutscene hatred around here?

A few of us have already explained the theory in full from several different view points. Just browse through the thread and you'll get the gist of it.

 

[st0pnsw0p]

Storytelling through gameplay is still rather new.
You have to give developers a chance to mess it up before you decide which one is better.

 

[Negatempest]

Well, most NES games in the past hardly used cut-scenes and the point got across quickly and easily. "I'm sorry, but the princess is in another castle." Oh! I'm saving a princess...did not know that.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Some storytelling elements are better modeled through gameplay, others are better rendered through cutscenes. Depending on what story the game's telling, a cutscene may be, in places, the way to go. The argument that "games are interactive, therefore every element of a game must be interactive" is one I think is flawed. That way lies madness and QTEs.

(Also, are we considering dialogue in RPGs to be cutscenes, or gameplay?)

 

[TWEWER]

This Guillermo guy sounds like he's knows what's up.

 

[Frostbite3789]

That is the best scene in FFXIII, also I don't know about you guys but I liked cut scenes but games like MGS4...push it to far

To a MGS fan they don't. If you're buying the fourth game in a series, and it's promising to tie up the loose ends from previous games, you should be expecting a fairly cut-scene heavy game. It has to do with perspective.

 

[Solid Reece]

snip

That is the best scene in FFXIII, also I don't know about you guys but I liked cut scenes but games like MGS4...push it to far

I liked the cut scence for MGS4. If you could not pause or skip would be the problem. Almost late for work one day for watching the ending.

 

[Vigormortis]

Thank God. Someone in the film industry that gets it. Video games are not film and films are not games. They are two wholly different forms of media entertainment. They tell stories in different ways.

Films tell their narratives in a very strict, linear, directed fashion. You're being shown someone's vision of a story and the characters therein.

A video game tells it's story with far less linearity. (even if the game narrative is just that) It's more about the immersion and interactiveness of the player. Video game story telling is at it's finest when it's telling the story through the players point of view and presenting events to the player to experience and react to.

This is not to say that cut-scenes can't work in a game. Sometimes they work beautifully to accentuate what's just happened or is about to happen. But lengthy or frequent cut-scenes are unnecessary and more often then not create awkward pacing and diminish the immersive nature of the experience.

On a side note, I'm not sure how "enthused" I am to see Del Toro's game. I enjoy some of his films, and he most certainly has a unique vision, but I'm not entirely sure it'll translate well to a game setting. Time will tell. I hope to be wrong.

Honestly, I think the problem is that it's people in the GAME industry that don't understand this, people like Hideo Kojima who put movie length cutscene into games, and the guys who made Black Ops, which had tedious gameplay and whiny annoying characters, and had horrible pacing (or maybe not, seeing as it was bad all around).

I actually fully agree. But the issue I was pointing out was that quite a few people, especially in the film industry, just pass video games off as some mediocre media format because, as they claim, it can't be used to tell a compelling story. These same people often refer to a plethora of classic films as examples of how good film is at telling a narrative and then refer to the most popular game titles of the day (COD, GTA, what have you) as an example of how poor video games are at doing the same.

Truth is, film making, when it first started, was less than compelling. It took decades for it to come into it's own and become what we know of it today. The good and the bad. Why would video game making be any different?

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

That is the best scene in FFXIII, also I don't know about you guys but I liked cut scenes but games like MGS4...push it to far

To a MGS fan they don't. If you're buying the fourth game in a series, and it's promising to tie up the loose ends from previous games, you should be expecting a fairly cut-scene heavy game. It has to do with perspective.

yeah but they could have found a way to break up the cut scenes, cause sometimes I end up forgetting what was going on before a cut scene cause i have poor memory

EDIT:I didn't hate the cutscenes, I love them to be honest. And I'll play that game again once I beat all the games on the HD collections, so I can give Colonial the scissors he needs.

 

[Fasckira]

Ironically when watching a Del Toro film Im thinking, "Give me something to watch!"


I view most cut scenes as a reward of sorts for hard gameplay. You've battled through the level, now its time to take a quick timeout and see something happen that will help progress the story where gameplay couldn't.
The only time I dislike cutscenes is where they come unexpectedly, steal the controls away from me and force me into an obvious trap (Deus Ex, Im looking at you here buddy).

 

[Madara XIII]

Colour me intrigued. I don't share Del Toro's hatred of cutscenes (they have their place if done right), but I am fascinated to see his unique style brought into the game world.

Let's just hope his Mountains of Madness gets off the ground at some point too...

that thing got scuttled, don't expect to see any original horror anytime soon, its all remakes and sequels in tinsel town.

....*Cries softly while holding my Necronomicon*

Why must you remind me of that tragedy!?
Forgive us all Lovecraft for we do not appreciate well written horror like we should.
We are mere peons in your shadow and Hollywood is the blasphemous lecher that dares to diminish that overbearing shadow of prestigious fear and excellence.

DAMN YOU HOLLYWOOD!!

*End scene*

 

[Madara XIII]

You know what? I like cutscenes. They're informative, they let the designers do stuff that's not doable inside the game engine and often they're quite pretty. They give my hands a rest. They often offer different perspectives on the story.

So screw you Del Toro, don't you swear and act like you're better because you choose to play games a different way.

Also, I thought Hellboy was a bad film.

While I agree with you on the fact that cutscenes are great and necessary at times, I don't agree that Hellboy 1 was bad.
Sadly though, considering he was willing to give up At The Mountains of Madness without a fight made me lose a bit of respect for him.

 

[Madara XIII]

It's good to know Del Toro isn't big on cutscenes either, as I've grown to hate them because of how much they get thrown at us lately, especially by fucking Square-Enix. Seems fitting he's talking to Ken Levine, who prefers the style of active scenes, much like Valve does, where you rarely lose control of what you're looking at or doing.

Also, edit that post, nobody cares about Casavin's work at Gamespot, point to his recent work on the gem that is Bastion.

However there are games like Kingdom Hearts that need Cutscenes. And when I say cutscenes, I mean cutscenes that aren't too long and give one hell of a climactic finish that tears at your heart strings.
Cutscenes like Devil May Cry or Sonic Generations are needed, because despite the fact that you were engaged as that character, you have to stop and realize that they are established characters who you may not always be immersed with in their cutscenes, because their persona has been mapped out already. YOU ARE NOT THEM! Thus no need for such an extreme method of show not tell.
STORY COUNTS TOO!
Jesus Moses Christ people! It's like a bandwagon for the hate of cutscenes just formed right when Del Toro made that statement. Almost as bad as Movie Bob or Yahtzee Extremist fans.

I personally like cutscenes because they give an explanation depending on the content or the quality of the game.
Plus in a game like Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry where your thumbs will be aching like a *****.
A Cutscene is very welcome every now and then.

[HEADING=2]In Short:

Del Toro is raging a bit too harshly on cutscenes[/HEADING]