Hellboy Director Hates Game Cutscenes

[Madara XIII]

It's fitting that people have brought up Bastion, because I hated the way narration was handled in that game. Barring some general exposition moments like the training grounds or one of the dream sequences, it was like having someone read the novelization of the game at me over my shoulder while I played, simultaneously distracting me and implying that my actions were meaningless (after all, they already happened). And yet people praise it for "blending story into gameplay," which I totally don't get.

It really sucks, because I had to finish the game once and reflect on it before I realized that the story was actually pretty good. As was exactly one of the characters.

The thing that gets me about in game cutscenes is that you are suddenly forced out of second person perspective (from a narrative standpoint rather than a camera angle) and into third person. You go from being directly involved to being a spectator. As a player, I find that kind of insulting - particularly when the developer renders all the most important and awesome moments of a character through a cutscene.

And thank you for making me suddenly realize why I disagree so strongly with del Toro, because I don't go from being a participant to a spectator. Barring something like maybe MGS4 (never played it, but it seems the go-to negative comparison for length), I am the character(s) regardless of the level of control I have over them at a given moment. If I find the story worth my while in any way, I'm having fun at any given moment paying attention to it.

HOLY CHRIST CRACKERS!! Someone who's not an extremist
*Tears up with Joy*
Secondly I can agree that MGS4 cutscenes were necessary to anyone who wanted to know the story.
Let's be honest.
There'd be no way in hell that you could compress all that story into interactive cutscenes.
I prefer to see the character I was previously controlling act upon himself and remind me that he's a FULL BLOWN FLESHED OUT CHARACTER!

 

[Truly-A-Lie]

Truly-a-lie proposed an interesting thing in that taking away control from the player can be a powerful element, but the fact is that cutscenes aren't used to illustrate a lack of control for the character, but instead are scenes that take away power from the player, creating a disconnect between player and character. That would be fine it was the point, though it isn't outside of Ghost Trick.

Admittedly, the example I was thinking of was Raiden surrendering after the Metal Gear RAY boss fight in MGS2, which is also designed for player/character disconnect, so you may have a point.
But surely there isn't much difference between a cutscene and removing all player control in-engine, taking control and taking power are surely connected?

I just think that if a film, the key characteristic of film being moving image, can still be considered a film with periods of blank screen, a game can be considered a game with periods of no gameplay.

 

[Seventh Actuality]

I'm kind of happy to see that a lot of people have already pointed out how this unconditional backlash against cutscenes is retarded. The sentiment is a good one (if it can be interactive, it should be) taken too far. Refusing to use a perfectly serviceable method of delivering the story out of a misplaced sense of pride in the medium never has and never will help a game...especially not Half Life 2.

That said, if a cutscene shows the characters doing something the player could be, there's no excuse.

 

[NeutralDrow]

And thank you for making me suddenly realize why I disagree so strongly with del Toro, because I don't go from being a participant to a spectator. Barring something like maybe MGS4 (never played it, but it seems the go-to negative comparison for length), I am the character(s) regardless of the level of control I have over them at a given moment. If I find the story worth my while in any way, I'm having fun at any given moment paying attention to it.

HOLY CHRIST CRACKERS!! Someone who's not an extremist
*Tears up with Joy*
...

I prefer to see the character I was previously controlling act upon himself and remind me that he's a FULL BLOWN FLESHED OUT CHARACTER!

Oh, absolutely. They're a connection to the story, and seeing them act in that context (especially if I haven't had time yet to get in their heads). It's kind of a chain, the characters are the medium through which I experience the story, and non-interactive portions are a way I can understand the character better. Interaction can certainly help...but I also have odd standards of "interaction" (visual novels, I consider interactive, but I have no illusions about the majority opinion).

It's one of the things I'm ambivalent about in games involving character creation. I love them from a gameplay perspective, but I often find it harder to get into a story without some kind of anchor character, which "blank slates" really don't do (barring MMOs, which seem to encourage building character personality based on the player, and have the length to support it). Probably explains why I've been reusing a small set of specific character names and traits in RPGs since I was young. I totally did not think of that before now.

 

[Amnestic]

You still lack a very fundamental understanding of what anyone is actually talking about.

No, I understand it fine. What I'm doing is disagreeing with you.

What you are talking about is breaking immersion.

What I am talking about is that a cut scene used for non-control based reasons is disconnecting you from the game. It is unplugging your controller and asking you to now be and engage in a passive activity for a NON passive moment.

...so? I like that. Sometimes a bit of being passive is good. You consume games for far longer than you do films.

Also quick time events are still cutscenes, just the butchered attempt to "fix" the cut scene problem.

"You can selectively take control away from the gamer for a few seconds but don't render him inactive."

Del Toro's own words. QTEs keep control with the player, it maintains the active connection which you're banging on about so much. Thus, because QTEs are ACTIVE and not PASSIVE, they aren't cutscenes by your own admission.

Also, there is no cutscene 'problem' for me.

First off, most of that trouble lies in the trouble of Blazblue's story being half convulted and mashed together bits of bullshit.

Sorry, no, that's not a problem. Telling a complex story in a game should never be a 'problem'.

The same can be said of MvC3, where great detail was put into getting the characters put across in gameplay. When you play Wolverine right, he feels like a dirty fucking animal, sliding on the floor, dive kicking over and over, berserker slashing through everything. Nova feels heavy buy mobile, like flying through space. While Hulk is a straight forward brusier, She-Hulk is a thinking man's grappler.

Blazblue also does this, to a smaller extent. Best example by far is V-13 x Ragna. I really miss their in game chatter about how V-13 loves Ragna, and can't understand why he doesn't see her killing him and aborbing his power as a beautiful thing. I understood their relation, as well as several other charecters, long before I played the game.

Transferring these techniques into a linear narrative wouldn't be that hard, just take a bit of work and imagination, and probably going back to the genre's work of side scrolling beat em up fused into the single player mode.

You don't think BlazBlue's characters play as a reference to their characters? You can't feel the smug superiority of Rachel? The boiling rage of Ragna? The "animal at play" as Tao? I thought they got that across quite clearly.

So your ingenious solution to getting rid of cutscenes is to go back to a superfluous and frankly unnecessary mode where players are more likely to be focusing on shit that's hitting the fan around them rather than the actual story, a mode which would break the narrative (since, hey, you need to find a bunch of enemies for them to kill for non-contrived reasons) every time you want to get across any sort of exposition.

I knew your answer wouldn't be anything special, but that? That's funny. In a sad way.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I love this. Imagine if a film, in order to tell part of the story, suddenly directed people to read an accompanying pamphlet that was handed out with the tickets. People would think they'd gone insane. Why is his distaste for having what literally defines the medium (interactivity) stripped away from him at arbitrary points a sign of a lack of attention span?

The thing that gets me about in game cutscenes is that you are suddenly forced out of second person perspective (from a narrative standpoint rather than a camera angle) and into third person. You go from being directly involved to being a spectator. As a player, I find that kind of insulting - particularly when the developer renders all the most important and awesome moments of a character through a cutscene. It's like you're just some clutz who gets to sit in on the mundane moments and the game punishes you for being beaten with the usual bloodstains, game over screens etc - but as soon as anything really fantastic happens they switch to a cutscene. This isn't true of all games, certainly. But I can definitely see where Del Toro is coming from.

Immersion is subjective, you have games like Final Fantasy, which take place in a sort of 3rd person/isometric point, the cutscenes really don't break immersion. With the earlier yeah maybe, but that's just graphical firepower.

Ol' D.T wasn't specific about the cutscenes he hates; Is it just the immersion breakers or all scenes in general.

 

[Roserari]

The reason why Half Life 2 failed on all boards is because it lacked ... fun. How about a quick first person cutscene where Gordon races through the streets like it was Mirror's Edge? That at least would be better than the two second chase scene in the beginning.

Or how about the cutscenes in Uncharted? They're extremely well made, fun to watch and add a whole lot to the experience.

I respect his opinion, but that kind of thinking could lead to some very unpleasant results in games. Like ..., well, the episodes of Half Life 2, that are so boring it hurt me.

 

[])rStrangelove]

Hellboy Director Hates Game Cutscenes

Who? Sorry, insignificant.

 

[Ubermetalhed]

Hmm depends what game it is. Cutscenes can be incredibly cool, take any major Final Fantasy epic battle sequence/set piece for instance. Some are just awesome or help develop the plot/characters etc.

I think it's amusing that he is speaking with Ken Levine on this, a guy who makes games with minimal cutscenes. I'm sure the next interview will be with Gabe Newell...

 

[Concealed]

Just to make sure this gets seen:

If you are going to post a summary from Eurogamer of an interview from Irrational, please make sure you do more than skim that summary. The details you claim Guillermo Del Toro "teased" about his game are actually Ken Levine recommending Bastion to the director. Greg Kasavin is not writing Del Toro's game, and the quote was not only not Del Toro's but about Bastion rather than Insane. Readers who don't check your sources are going to be seriously misled.

 

[Saltyk]

I don't dislike cutscenes. What is with all this cutscene hate? Done right, I actually like them. What I dislike is unskippable cutscenes. No, not the show here on the Escapist. I mean cutscenes that I can't pause or skip right over with a button press or two. Those are annoying when I'm on playthrough #7 or having to fight a particularly annoying boss for the fifth time. Just as bad as unskippable cutscenes are those "This isn't a cutscene, see you can move while they talk" cutscenes that you have to listen to for a whole 10 minutes before you can play again. Give me a skippable cutscene any day.

 

[Kenjitsuka]

"Of course, details like an actual release date have yet to be revealed."

But it's good news so far

 

[CortexReaver]

Hell he's right. I never liked cutscenes, every truly great game escaped massive use of them. I would like to see the way of storytelling used in his game.

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

The man speaks the truth.

 

[Jakub324]

For a second I thought he hated them because he thought they encroached on film territory or something. I can see his point, but I like them when they're well done.

 

[kyogen]

[HEADING=2]In Short:

Del Toro is raging a bit too harshly on cutscenes[/HEADING]

That pretty much sums it up. I like del Toro's movies, but I can't agree with him about a fit of nerd rage, and I don't appreciate the suggestion that gamers are only gamers if they hate cutscenes. Partnering with Greg Kasavin was probably a good idea, though. If they're on the same page about how to do game narrative, there's a better chance that they'll make a solid game with a good story.

Personally, I like cutscenes. I even liked them in MGS4 and FFXIII, but The Witcher 2 contains my favorites. They can certainly be done poorly, but the simple fact of a long cutscene in a game is not necessarily a design failure.

EDIT: I'm not a huge fan of QTEs because I have to pay so much attention to button-pushing that I can't enjoy the animation. What a waste sometimes.

 

[kyogen]

Just to make sure this gets seen:

If you are going to post a summary from Eurogamer of an interview from Irrational, please make sure you do more than skim that summary. The details you claim Guillermo Del Toro "teased" about his game are actually Ken Levine recommending Bastion to the director. Greg Kasavin is not writing Del Toro's game, and the quote was not only not Del Toro's but about Bastion rather than Insane. Readers who don't check your sources are going to be seriously misled.

Good on you for pointing that out. I'm off to read the original. Thanks.

EDIT: And now that I've listened to the full podcast that inspired The Escapist's article...what del Toro said is not as inflammatory or dismissive as reported. I'm relieved, but I should have checked before commenting. My bad. Also, Escapist, you need to do a correction.

 

[theonecookie]

I never got the cut-scene hate because there perfect for the more dull aspects of story telling like two people having a chat or doing exposition because you can splice in flash backs and do stuff with the cinematography to make it more interesting than just looking at some guys face (looking at you half life)

Granted I wouldn't want the game to show me a cool action sequence when I could be you know playing it or too use them as the primary storytelling tool that would be silly after all (looking at you MGS4).I guess what I'm trying to say is that cut scenes have a place its just maybe they've been used in the wrong way