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Revnak

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It’s always the fucking bathrooms and it’s always because every fucking straight man alive has the maturity of a goddamn 90’s comedy protagonist, all imagining how willing you’d be to “put on a wig and a dress” if it meant you got to be nearby women peeing without facing consequences from other men who want to be nearby women peeing. As if the entire social contract is built on men divvying out the right to maybe smell a woman’s piss. You’re all so absurdly sexually frustrated.
 

Houseman

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You’re all so absurdly sexually frustrated.
No, just the creeps who would jump at the chance to follow a woman into their restroom or changing area.

The argument against this (so far in this topic) is not "that would never happen!" it's "YOU'RE TRANSPHOBIC!"
 

Revnak

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No, just the creeps who would jump at the chance to follow a woman into their restroom or changing area.

The argument against this (so far in this topic) is not "that would never happen!" it's "YOU'RE TRANSPHOBIC!"
Who already do so. Do you have any evidence or argument as to how many more would vs the safety granted to transfolk by not forcing them to out themselves and risk assault for the crime of needing to piss, aside from the social normalization of transfolk that follows such a thing, the emotional benefit to transfolk, etc? You got, what was it, twenty something cases of peeping? Damn bro, that’s craaaazy.
 

Houseman

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Who already do so.
The ones that ignore the sign, do.
The ones that respect the sign, don't.

The argument you're making is analogous to saying "locks on doors don't do anything, people circumvent them all the time!"
Yes, they do, but they also keep "honest people" out. If doors weren't locked at all, thieves would break in (and by that I mean merely open a door) a lot more often.

There would be more crimes of opportunity.
 

Avnger

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The argument against this (so far in this topic) is not "that would never happen!" it's "YOU'RE TRANSPHOBIC!"
If you want people to stop calling you transphobic, maybe stop acting transphobic. No one is required to engage with these arguments that you apparently believe are some novel inspiration when a 5 minute google research shows how thoroughly they've all been made and rebutted everywhere else on the internet.

And before you say "But everything I say gets considered 'transphobic'", maybe consider how 95% of the people in this thread do not have that issue.
 

Houseman

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If you want people to stop calling you transphobic, maybe stop acting transphobic.
Nah, I'll just keep focusing on the actual arguments and y'all can call me names, it'll only make my position look better, and your position look hysterical.
 

Revnak

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The ones that ignore the sign, do.
The ones that respect the sign, don't.
Signs suck ass. I have no respect for signs. Where is your god now Houseman? Can I be stopped from committing all the terrible crimes if I don’t respect signs?
There would be more crimes of opportunity.
How many? Is there any chance that it’s comparable in value to all the things I mentioned? Is there any other action that can be taken to resolve this same problem?
 

Houseman

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Signs suck ass. I have no respect for signs. Where is your god now Houseman? Can I be stopped from committing all the terrible crimes if I don’t respect signs?
Yes, violent force should stop you from committing crimes if signs don't.

How many?
I don't know.

Is there any chance that it’s comparable in value to all the things I mentioned?
I don't know. Is it?

I would hazard a guess and say that, since there are far more male creeps who are interested in females than there are LGBT people in the world, the costs would outweigh the benefits

Is there any other action that can be taken to resolve this same problem?
Yes, but it'll cost trillions of dollars to put a national gender registration system and card readers on every bathroom in the country.
 

Shadyside

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Honestly there should be a third restroom that is for all genders. Just urinals and toilets for everyone to use, so people who don't care about gender or wants to feel inclusive can go to that space.
 

Kae

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I would hazard a guess and say that, since there are far more male creeps who are interested in females than there are LGBT people in the world, the costs would outweigh the benefits
Are there?!

Wouldn't that mean that statistically speaking, since there are so many LGBTQA+ people on this site then some of the people here have to be creeps?

Who are the creeps?!

Are you the creep Housey?!

Is that it?

Are you a creep that's afraid of signs and you need them to remain up so that you don't commit crimes and therefore manage to stay out of jail?!
 
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Houseman

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Are there?!
Like I said, I'm hazarding a guess.

But it's nice to see you back and communicating after ignoring post #400.

Wouldn't that mean that statistically speaking, since there are so many LGBTQA+ people on this site then some of the people here have to be creeps?
Sure, why not.

Are you the creep Housey?!

Is that it?

Are you a creep that's afraid of signs and you need them to remain up so that you don't commit crimes and therefore manage to stay out of jail?!
Wouldn't you like to know?
 

Kae

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Like I said, I'm hazarding a guess.

But it's nice to see you back and communicating after ignoring post #400.



Sure, why not.



Wouldn't you like to know?
Did I ignore it?

I reserve my right to not reply to every single quote ever, especially given where I am right now, not very comfortable talking about this stuff when I'm paranoid that my family might look over my shoulder and can't write super long posts while working.

So shitposts is all you get.
 

Houseman

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Did I ignore it?
Where "ignoring" means "didn't reply to or acknowledge in any way", yes.

I reserve my right to not reply to every single quote ever, especially given where I am right now, not very comfortable talking about this stuff when I'm paranoid that my family might look over my shoulder and can't write super long posts while working.

So shitposts is all you get.
Your reasons are your own. Like you reserve the right not to reply, I reserve the right to call you out on it.
 

Kae

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Where "ignoring" means "didn't reply to or acknowledge in any way", yes.



Your reasons are your own. Like you reserve the right not to reply, I reserve the right to call you out on it.
You remind of my mom Houseman.
Yes my mom is kinda like Houseman, probably explains why I hate visiting my family.
 

Terminal Blue

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Anything that isn't the women's bathroom.
So, you would rather actually break the law than run a tiny risk of upsetting people?

And no, there's no law against you using a women's bathroom if it has facilities you need. Anyone who tried to evict you would be opening themselves up for a lawsuit.

Take her to the men's toilet.
Again, why?

Your daughter has every right to be in a women's toilet, especially if the alternative is being surrounded by men (who as we've established are inherently bad and dangerous). Her safety and comfort are as important as those of any other user of the toilet. In fact, she is exactly the kind of person we're supposed to be trying to protect here.

What this says to me is that you prioritize the needs, and in particular the anxieties, of some people over others, even when there's no clear legal basis to do so and even when it actually contradicts the law.

Accusing me of having ulterior motives or "suddenly caring" is not an argument.
It is an argument though.

You may not think it's a good argument, and that's fine, but people are allowed to be sceptical of your motivations. The fact that you're more worried about some hypothetical situation where men pretend to be trans to gain access to women's bathrooms, which is actually completely unnecessary and wouldn't provide very much, if any legal protection beyond what already exists, does not register as authentic if that's the only situation you've demonstrated any concern for victims of sexual assault.

I'm of course joking about making men pee in glass boxes, but there's a grain of truth in it. I personally do feel inherently less safe around men, I've been a victim of a lot of male violence and there's always going to be deeply wired part of my brain which associates men with threat. I think we all, consciously or subconsciously, recognize that men are dangerous, that the way they behave and act makes them a danger to others, and that there's something very wrong with men in our society. Not all men, of course, that was a joke, but enough men to make the threat very real. It is interesting to me to see you admit that men are a threat to women (and trans people, and GNC men), because previously you've resisted the idea that there's anything wrong with men as a class.

So let me phrase the joke as an argument. Why are you so concerned with punishing trans people for what is ultimately a problem with men? Would it not make more sense, instead, to focus on men, because ultimately the social problem we are talking about here is men.
 

Trunkage

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Honestly there should be a third restroom that is for all genders. Just urinals and toilets for everyone to use, so people who don't care about gender or wants to feel inclusive can go to that space.
We have unisex toilets at my work
 

Revnak

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I would hazard a guess and say that, since there are far more male creeps who are interested in females than there are LGBT people in the world, the costs would outweigh the benefits
You think 10-20% of all men are creeps?
 
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Revnak

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We have unisex toilets at my work
I love the premise that this is revolutionary when it’s actually a massive fraction of public restrooms. It cannot even be considered.
 

Revnak

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Your reasons are your own. Like you reserve the right not to reply, I reserve the right to call you out on it.
Posting warrior John the living house here to explain proper posting etiquette to all of us.
 

Houseman

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So, you would rather actually break the law than run a tiny risk of upsetting people?
I just did some quick searches, and I'm not seeing any source that says that it's illegal to throw used diapers in the trash. At least, that's how it is in the US of A.

Again, why?
Because I find it preferable than going into the women's restroom.

Her safety and comfort are as important as those of any other user of the toilet
And I would be there to make her feel safe and comfortable.

What this says to me is that you prioritize the needs, and in particular the anxieties, of some people over others.
You're right, I place the needs and anxieties of the many over the few, which includes my own.
You, however, seem to place the few over the many. You're willing to allow many women to feel uncomfortable so that a few trans people can feel comfortable. Is that accurate?

but people are allowed to be sceptical of your motivations
People are allowed to be skeptical of my motivations, as long as they also address my arguments. If they use their skepticism, real or feigned, as an out, then they're clearly arguing in bad faith because they know their arguments don't withstand criticism.

Why are you so concerned with punishing trans people for what is ultimately a problem with men? Would it not make more sense, instead, to focus on men, because ultimately the social problem we are talking about here is men.
Currently, your question is loaded with the assumption that I want to "punish" trans people, or that restricting them from certain bathrooms are "punishments". You have not demonstrated any of this to be true. This is merely emotionally charged language.

I'll pretend that this is your question instead: "Why restrict trans women from bathrooms, or otherwise change the rules regarding bathrooms, if the real problem is cis men creeping on women?" Well, I'm glad you asked. The answer is that it would require a miracle to make all men harmless. Nobody but God has that power. It is simply impossible with our level of current technology.


You think 10-20% of all men are creeps?
Far more than that. Though most of them are the benign variety that would be stopped by a plastic sign.

Posting warrior John the living house here to explain proper posting etiquette to all of us.
Yes, that is exactly what I am doing.