Hentai Collector Sentenced to Jail Over "Obscene" Material

[Doug]

OH SHIT, BURN IT ALL, BURN IT ALL, BURN IT ALL.
Nah, I don't have any of that type of porn, child and bestiality? That's sick, but, seriously, it's just pictures, there are thousands of these things on the internet, I can't believe they destroyed someone's life for that.

ARREST THE INTERNET.

Seriously, this is ridiculous; it's art, not real.

I would find it hard to call that "art".

Well, excuse me, princess, I didn't realise you were the guy who makes laws.

Well excuse me for stating my opinion. Apparently yours is so much more important you can be a dick about it.

To anyone who says that there is no way this can be considered art, I'll direct you here.

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2008/05/takashi_murakami_watches_from.html

Apparently it's art worth 15 million dollars.

I didn't say it wasn't considered art, I said I didn't think it should be considered art.

Apparently people think this means I'm declaring myself judge and jury of the world because I stated my opinion no more forcefully than any of them did.

 

[Hussmann54]

I can sort of see the govs way on all this. That stuff is just a portal for people to start doing that stuff for real. I have seen it before.

the things you own, end up owning you- Tyler Durden

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

The prosecution in the case admitted that Handley did not have a criminal history and wasn't in possession of any actual child pornography, but argued that the material had no "arguable scientific, literary, artistic or political value" and was "clearly obscene."

Hmm. This is the paragraph which intrigues me the most. 'no "arguable scientific, literary, artistic or political value"'.

So Alan Moore, who depicted incest and child pornography in his book 'Lost Girls', which is a subject of quite some debate, is free from this ruling, but Japanese comics clearly have no literary value.

Everything written has literary value, everything drawn has artistic value, whatever it is that has been drawn, whatever it is that has been written, no matter how inappropriate, no matter how taboo. There is value if something as been set down and published. (Not even then, but at that point you're bandying semantics)

The prosecution was, I believe, arguing from an inherently flawed premise, based on this argument.

 

[Jaranja]

OH SHIT, BURN IT ALL, BURN IT ALL, BURN IT ALL.
Nah, I don't have any of that type of porn, child and bestiality? That's sick, but, seriously, it's just pictures, there are thousands of these things on the internet, I can't believe they destroyed someone's life for that.

ARREST THE INTERNET.

Seriously, this is ridiculous; it's art, not real.

I would find it hard to call that "art".

Well, excuse me, princess, I didn't realise you were the guy who makes laws.

Well excuse me for stating my opinion. Apparently yours is so much more important you can be a dick about it.

Well, my statement also contained fact.

 

[Benicus]

For all of you Canadians out there saying "thank god I don't live in America": our laws are even more retarded.

Also, this is just like saying video games depicting violence is murder and punishable as that.

Yeah, but Australia is basically second in line in the 'Holy fuck , is our government ever stupid!' list.

Wow... us english-speakers are quickly running out of countries...

And Canada is supposed to be the most rational of all of them :/

I was about to say come to england, but we get pretty much everyone turning up on our door step asking for free health care and we just let them in. On the other hand I heard the moon is a good place for us to run too

You basically said what I was going to about coming to England lol

OT, retarded much. On this premise people can get arrested for any work of fiction deemed obscene enough. Btw who the hell decides what's obscene, a lot of japanese manga, anime and games are fucking crazy. Well done America, aren't you clever *Claps*

 

[demoman_chaos]

This all comes down to a violation of the first amendment.

Since when did the US Government care about the Constitution? The Supreme Court basically ignores the thing, passing most anything they are told to.
Need examples?
The Patriot Act allows them to hold and torture you, search your house, all without warning or warrant because they think you are a "Terrorist." Is it just me, or does that DIRECTLY go against the 4th amendment, making it completly unconstitutional. With the Supreme Court's job being to figure out if things are constitutional or not, this seems like a pretty obvious failure to to their job properly and thus should be removed from office for treason against the US citizens.
Income Tax is also illegal (the amendment was never ratified and there isn't a law saying you have to pay, plus it is taxation without representation), so is the Federal Reserve (a central bank, which Ben Franklin himself was quoted to saying one of the bigger reasons for the revolution is the US would get all its money from the British central bank), and many more.

The U.S. sucks, but Canada is too cold, England is too crowded, Austrailian gamers get screwed over, and I only speak English. I am for the most part, stuck.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

I think him getting sentenced is stupid, he probably thinks he's not a pervert so he's not a pervert, and it's not obscene in Japan (or wherever he imported it from, I didn't read the whole thing) plus its just some books, geez, people are way too strict these days

 

[asinann]

If his stupid ass hadn't accepted a plea bargain he could have had the entire law thrown out. The only reason it's still on the books is because it hasn't been challenged yet.

Income Tax is also illegal (the amendment was never ratified and there isn't a law saying you have to pay, plus it is taxation without representation),

That's why it's the 16th amendment right? Because it was never ratified. People that believe that "never ratified" line are sitting in jail right now (you know who Wesley Snipes is, that's why he was found guilty.) It's only taxation without representation in ONE city in the US: Washington DC (and that's arguable since Maryland gets an extra rep to cover DC.)

Religious idiot parents refuse to take their daughter to doctor after her kidneys fail and she dies: 18 months.

That's a long sentence for a religious nutjob, some parents in Oregon let their daughter die of a cold and walked after claiming religion as a defense (even though it's not a legally acceptable defense.)

 

[Kajin]

What the... I can understand this if it were actual child porn, but it isn't. It's hentai. Hentai is drawn by hand on a piece of paper. Yeah, it's perverted, but that doesn't make it illegal.

 

[ElephantGuts]

argued that the material had no "arguable scientific, literary, artistic or political value"

No value to the state or society and thus illegal, regardless of its value to the individual?

Well, the free country concept lasted a few hundred years. I guess that's...something. Hello fascism.

Though this does make the war against the Taliban and Islamic extremists seem a bit hypocritical.

 

[Doug]

OH SHIT, BURN IT ALL, BURN IT ALL, BURN IT ALL.
Nah, I don't have any of that type of porn, child and bestiality? That's sick, but, seriously, it's just pictures, there are thousands of these things on the internet, I can't believe they destroyed someone's life for that.

ARREST THE INTERNET.

Seriously, this is ridiculous; it's art, not real.

I would find it hard to call that "art".

Well, excuse me, princess, I didn't realise you were the guy who makes laws.

Well excuse me for stating my opinion. Apparently yours is so much more important you can be a dick about it.

Well, my statement also contained fact.

"Art" is not an absolute qualifiable quantity, last time I checked. Though that does raise the question of why such a subjective term was allowed to be used in a law.

 

[fletch_talon]

I was kinda on the fence about this, but I've finally come to a conclusion.
Criminal charges should not be filed, as there is no victim involved.
However, the items should be confiscated and he should be given psychiatric help. Hentai is porn, in this case porn of children. If that's what he is sexually aroused by (this being the purpose of porn) then he is in some part a paedophile. This doesn't mean he'll go out and molest children, but it wouldn't hurt to take preventative measures just in case.
Heck, if we did this with the easy to catch hentai importers, it might even give some insight into how to help fully blown paedophiles instead of scaring them into hiding.

Yeah and you know what else we should do? Lets grab all the people who fap to hentai, because that shit is weird. Also lets grab all the scat and gore people and the furries too. And the homos and the BDSM and the fat fetishists. Anyone who buys a dildo will be immediately arrested and playboy will be a felony. Also, lets kill us some Minorities because they're obviously a drain on society. Hell lets grab everyone who has a fetish or is of a different color and just throw them in a big flaming ditch!

You start doing that shit how long until the moral police come for you? How long till your fetish for sailor suits or whatever becomes a social deviancy worthy of psychological evaluation? How about you stop trying to beat people over the head with your morality? Unless you can show a DAMN good link between this and actual child molestation then you're talking out your ass. The difference between owning loli and molesting a child is the difference between shooting someone with a paint ball gun and unloading a minigun into a group of nuns.

Note the bolded part.
People who molest children generally do so because they are sexually attracted to children, in other words they are paedophiles.
Loli, as you call it, is pornography that depicts children in a sexualised manner.
Pornography's purpose is to provide viewing material from which someone can derive sexual pleasure.
So if you derive pleasure from loli, then you are a... what now?
A paedophile, well done.

I think I stated pretty damn clearly that child molestation is not a direct result of loli. What I did say is that someone that is sexually attracted to children needs to be given help. Why? Not because they're different, its because their attraction is not okay, because to act on it involves non-consensual sex.

I really wish people like you would wake up and realise that we are able to set boundaries. You're comparing sexual preference, fetishes and even race, to paedophilia... Do you realise how stupid that is? Can you really not see that there is a difference between someone who gets a boner everytime they walk past a pretty little six year old, and someone who likes to have sex in a furry costume.

You might as well claim that because Australia banned laser pointers (dickheads using them to shine at aeroplanes) they'll ban flashlights next.

 

[Jenny Creed]

As far as I know the laws that decide what is obscene and immoral, in every country, are always worded so that the whims of the collective local populace determine what's acceptable and not. If you are different from the norm in any way, you can expect your way of life may be determined invalid at any point. Collecting cartoon porn, being homosexual or vegetarian or wearing the wrong hat can get you in legal trouble with any neighborhood that cares to take notice. That this man's fetishes are deemed unacceptable is just as it should be, in this system.

Comic books are of course a more decadent medium than normal books, and can't be allowed the same freedom of expression [http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html]. Neil Gaiman speaks at length about this case and a few like it, if anyone's interested.

You ask, What makes it worth defending? and the only answer I can give is this: Freedom to write, freedom to read, freedom to own material that you believe is worth defending means you're going to have to stand up for stuff you don't believe is worth defending, even stuff you find actively distasteful, because laws are big blunt instruments that do not differentiate between what you like and what you don't, because prosecutors are humans and bear grudges and fight for re-election, because one person's obscenity is another person's art.

Because if you don't stand up for the stuff you don't like, when they come for the stuff you do like, you've already lost.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Handley will also be required to serve three years of supervised release and undergo a "treatment program" that will include psychological testing and polygraph examinations to "reveal possible new criminal behavior," which he will have to help pay for, and five years of probation.

...okay, seriously, what the fuck?

I mean, everyone else has already pointed out what I wanted to, but...god damn.

 

[Heathrow]

So what the state of Iowa is saying is that you aren't allowed to have fantasies if they are out of line with the law? Better nab all those couples who like to play rape. And all the rednecks who think indiscreet thoughts about their sisters. And pretty much every deviant thinker with a kink or two. FFS fantasies are fine as long as you don't actually act on them, the whole point of fantasy is to give release to your id.

Why does our government have to be so ridiculous?

 

[razer17]

Whilst I agree that owning child pornography should be illegal, even if it is just a drawing, this sentence is wayyy over the top. I don't think a prison sentence is appropriate, especially since he is sticking to cartoons, instead of actual child porn.

 

[Kajin]

Income Tax is also illegal (the amendment was never ratified and there isn't a law saying you have to pay, plus it is taxation without representation), so is the Federal Reserve (a central bank, which Ben Franklin himself was quoted to saying one of the bigger reasons for the revolution is the US would get all its money from the British central bank), and many more.

Uhm... No. Taxation without representation means, 'We will only pay taxes that our representatives in a House or Assembly [or similar body] have approved and passed into a law. Our government is the House of Assembly, and they passed income tax into law. Income tax is perfectly legal.

 

[Sethzard]

So they are going to scar him for life and possibly runin his life for drawn images,

 

[ElephantGuts]

The prosecution in the case admitted that Handley did not have a criminal history and wasn't in possession of any actual child pornography, but argued that the material had no "arguable scientific, literary, artistic or political value" and was "clearly obscene."

Hmm. This is the paragraph which intrigues me the most. 'no "arguable scientific, literary, artistic or political value"'.

So Alan Moore, who depicted incest and child pornography in his book 'Lost Girls', which is a subject of quite some debate, is free from this ruling, but Japanese comics clearly have no literary value.

Everything written has literary value, everything drawn has artistic value, whatever it is that has been drawn, whatever it is that has been written, no matter how inappropriate, no matter how taboo. There is value if something as been set down and published. (Not even then, but at that point you're bandying semantics)

The prosecution was, I believe, arguing from an inherently flawed premise, based on this argument.

That's what I'm thinking too. The prosecution's rationalization makes no sense. Anything that doesn't hold value to a particular field is illegal? They don't even claim it had no value, since it clearly had value to its owner. But if they decide it's not valuable to society or the state then it's illegal? It would be ridiculous to hold that as a legal precedent. If I scribble sharpie on a piece of printer paper, is that now illegal material because it is useless? What about unemployed people and bums, are they criminals?

Of course, this more elaborate argument is pointless since the simple existence of the 1st Amendment should have closed this case before it began. How this ruling came to be is beyond me, and it both infuriates and depresses me.

 

[Nuke_em_05]

While I'm not in support of this kind of material; to each his own. I don't agree with the ruling.

Child pornography is illegal because an actual child is taken advantage of in order to create it. As the prosecutor said; he wasn't in possesion of actual child pornography.

So they fall back on this argument: 'the material had no "arguable scientific, literary, artistic or political value" and was "clearly obscene."' The entire "legal" pornography industry falls under this category. As would most other forms of modern media, including the "news".

Though, I do find the "lines on paper" counter-argument really silly. The Law is just lines on paper, so is possesion, property, and money. As well as symbols like the scythe and hammer and the swastika. "Flipping the Bird" is just one finger raised above the others. The "peace" sign is just two fingers raised above others. The point is not what something is physically; but the concept and association it represents in a given culture. A photograph of a child in a sexual context is just chemicals on paper; or 1's and 0's aligned on a metal disk. The medium is hardly the point.