Hitting... Women

[Bellvedere]

The shocking part isn't necessarily just because it's a man hitting a woman - I would think a perceived strength disparity is the more shocking factor. I mean, it's always shocking to see someone that appears much stronger beating someone that appears much weaker. Like if an adult hits a child or a huge bouncer at a club pounds some weedy trouble-maker. I would also imagine that you wouldn't see nearly such a strong reaction if it were a petite man hitting a beefy, body-building chick.

I suppose when you're teaching young children it's easier to reinforce not hitting girls than it is trusting the child's judgement about who it's ridiculously unfair to engage in a fight with.

 

[Bellvedere]

The shocking part isn't necessarily just because it's a man hitting a woman - I would think a perceived strength disparity is the more shocking factor. I mean, it's always shocking to see someone that appears much stronger beating someone that appears much weaker. Like if an adult hits a child or a huge bouncer at a club pounds some weedy trouble-maker. I would also imagine that you wouldn't see nearly such a strong reaction if it were a petite man hitting a beefy, body-building chick.

I suppose when you're teaching young children it's easier to reinforce not hitting girls than it is trusting the child's judgement about who it's ridiculously unfair to engage in a fight with.

 

[Amir Kondori]

You shouldn't hit a woman because you shouldn't hit anyone. If you fear for your life/safety to the point where you feel you need to physically defend yourself then sure, it does not matter the gender of your assailant. How often does that happen? I haven't been in a fight since I was in middle school.
The people who say "never hit a woman" for the most part aren't talking about this bizarre, one in a million scenario people dream up of the woman in a back alley coming at you with a broken beer bottle. They are talking about people who get upset, lose their temper and hit a woman they know or are in a relationship with because they can.
If everyone just used common sense there would be less of these types of threads.

 

[Ubiquitous Duck]

*Spoiler from Wolf of Wall Street*

I'm going to use a spoiler to talk on this, but there are spoilers in the original post, so I'm assuming its fine.

From what I remember the 'deep inhale' you spoke of happened when I was watching too, but it did not happen when he slapped her. From what I remember, it happened when he punched her in the stomach when she was following after her. This is much more aggressive than a slap.

I did comment to the person I saw it with though that I thought it was kind of weird, considering all the content of that movie, that jointly it was only that one moment where people were like: Oh shit! Man he has taken this too far!

Maybe it's also because we aren't used to seeing this kind of domestic violence on film as much as we are used to seeing drunken antics, debauchery, sex, drugs etc.?

*Spoiler from Wolf of Wall Street*

 

[VanQ]

Equality means equal consequences. If you would slap a man in that exact situation, there is nothing wrong with slapping a woman. That's not to say it's a good idea to slap anyone, just that if you deem it acceptable to do X to a man in situation Y, but not the same to a woman for the reason that she's a woman, wouldn't that be mysoginy?

 

[mistahzig1]

How 'bout not hitting ANYONE unless your life or physcal integrity is on the line?

It's appealing to the common denominator to retliate in kind, no?


And as for the women thing, singling out a demographic group simply transforms feminism into neo-paternalism, and we don't want that, right?

 

[EvilMaggot]

i once got smacked by a girlfriend.. we had a heated argument.. i stood for 2 seconds.. stunned.. ive never been smacked before... i had enough self control not to hit her back.. but my temper flew up where only few people have ever seen me.. its been described to me as my pupils turn fully black and then hell breaks lose. In a very low hissy kinda voice.. i told her to get the fuck out of my house. She started to cry.. she had never seen me that angry and how menacing i looked.

But no.. never hit a person in my life, words can hurt way much more.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Well, one reason not to hit back might be that if the authorities get involved, chances are they'll assume the man was the aggressor, especially in domestic situations, and you could find yourself in legal hotwater if you don't have any good witnesses to back up your side of the story. Some would say hitting back isn't worth the risk of an assault charge, especially as on average women are physically weaker than men so restraining the assailant wouldn't be too hard in most cases.

I wouldn't worry about that even. More so if you're in a public place and someone just see's you hit a woman. More than likely someone is going to intervene and try and beat you up.

I haven't been in that sort of situation since school years ago and i've only ever been slapped once. I was shocked that the chick would slap me over something so petty (she was trying to take my seat!) so I never really thought to hit back. I would never hit anyone at all if I could help it, even in retaliation. I'm not even the type to flip out in anger either. In fact if someone told me they had done something terrible like, I dunno slept with my girlfriend or what have you, I am sure I would take it in stride and barely react even if I was upset over it.

Not that I would do much damage anyway, i'm scrawny as fuck since I don't really exercise and I miss entirely too many meals for no reason. What can I say? I hate leaving the house. You people with proper social lives have no idea what you're missing, I just went 9/0 with Lina lvl 16 with an Aghanim's and Bloodstone by 25 minutes. The fucking Laguna Blade oneshots were hilarious. Try doing that when you're off in town doing whatever it is people do in the evenings outside.

Can we please stop with comments like these? They're really not needed. We get it. Being alone and playing LoL or someshit is hip and cool. We don't need sarcastic comments that just help with stereotypes on these forums.

I was being sarcastic? Silly DOTA joke aside, I was being perfectly honest but just really exaggerated. Sorry if I fit into whatever stereotype you're talking about and i've never seen anything too close to what I said on these forums before anyway. We were on the subject of hitting people so the thought naturally occurred to me that even if I did hit someone it would be hilariously bad. Pretty much undermining the entire point of the argument if you think about it.

No sorry, I made the mistake of posting on a serious thread. My sense of humour and how I must attempt to end a comment with a joke always gets misunderstood. It's on the border of a sexism topic too, how blind could I have been? Damn posting in the early hours...

 

[Shinkicker444]

Well I'm very much non-confrontational, mostly because i'm tiny (30 year old ~46-48 kg male) in comparison to most people, including women. So I usually go out of my way to avoid anything remotely resembling a physically threatening situation. Saying that though, when I've had people hit me in the past (mostly in the arm or something) I've hit them back on reflex before I even realise it in the same spot. It's a little disturbing really since it could get me into a dangerous situation. In general though for me, I don't agree with hitting people in aggression it usually ends badly one way or the other, but if it is in defense, regardless if its male or female, then yeah, hit away if needed.

 

[Seydaman]

I can't think of any arguments to give preferential treatment to women over men in regards to such things.

If need be, I would punch another woman. But I am against violence in general.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

i once got smacked by a girlfriend.. we had a heated argument.. i stood for 2 seconds.. stunned.. ive never been smacked before... i had enough self control not to hit her back.. but my temper flew up where only few people have ever seen me.. its been described to me as my pupils turn fully black and then hell breaks lose. In a very low hissy kinda voice.. i told her to get the fuck out of my house. She started to cry.. she had never seen me that angry and how menacing i looked.

But no.. never hit a person in my life, words can hurt way much more.

I can imagine things would probably go like this if I were in the same situatuion. Just without the demon baby, spawn-of-satan stuff at the end

On a semi-related note, me and a close friend of mine are constantly on the edge of fighting. We both like to wind each other up, and sometimes it just goes too far. I remember this one time, I can't quite remember the lead up to it, but we were standing about a foot away from each other, maybe less, he's absolutely livid. Foaming at the mouth angry, he balls up his fist and draws his arm back. "You better hit me fucking good if you expect to get out of this fight without a mark."
He pauses. "Why are you bringing Mark into this man, this is between us." Pause. At this point I laugh, he laughs, he hits me on the arm, I give him a dead arm. Situation resolved. It is literally just a matter of time before one of us seriously injures the other. And that's fine. Because as long as I put him in hospital first, he can't hit me back!

 

[Someone Depressing]

If someone slapped me as hard as they could, I would try my best to restrain myself.

If I was stressed, the argument was heated and/or directed at me, then I'd slap them back. Regardless of gender.

I was raised on one principal: Stick up for myself, always. I tend not to because of being somewhat non-confrontational by nature, but I will if I have to.

 

[HorrendusOne]

Humans are humans I see no difference these days between the 2 genders in a more modern world. Only factor in this topic is morals, stereo-types, and situational situations.

The question SHOULD actually be why isn't hitting other people ok? We have no actual NEED to fight each other for survival (we only still fight and kill over ideologies and greed) when we should be living in a more civilized fashion (which we obvious do not).

 

[Tarcolt]

Wow this got away from the OP.

First, I'm assuming that you are referring to a slap thrown in anger or frustration, where the 1st party has no other way to explain justify etc. to the 2nd, or the 1st party is just a ***** (They do exist). in the heat of a confrontation BOTH parties are involved in stress and tension would be high and inhibitions will be low. It IS a Natural response whether we choose to think our race is beyond it or not, It is FANTASTIC if its an urge you can resist but it can be hard.

Second, the matter of slapping back, probably depends on the manner in which the first party slaps the 2nd originally. If it was to call attention to something or as a final 'remark' then its best to try and let it go. If it is Aggressive and/or an attempt at dominance then it is time to gauge whether or not to engage in a physical response, will it stop them? surprise them? or just start a fight? in the heat of the moment it is really hard to tell and Impossible to tell from a hypothetical situation.

Finally, the old 'don't hit girls' rule, this is something all men should try and live by, if only for those of us who do beat their wives/girlfriends and who are abusive. However this isn't a free pass, and in my time I have seen one or two relationships in which the men couldn't respond without being physical, It doesn't make things better all the time, one of those relationships kept going after they made up for him being man enough not to hit back. the other Led to further abuse and psychological problems for the man who Is now horribly afraid of women. The point of those two stories is probably that its not so cut and dry, The situation is unique in every instance and to say what should be done universally is just dumb.

And before anyone does respond with overzealous pacifism, I must reiterate, Physical response is not a go-to response it is only to be used in cases where other options(there are not Always others) are gone.

 

[Tomeran]

Im not sure if you're after the "why not hit women when hitting men is sometimes even encouraged?"-argument here, that one would be a good discussion topic.

If you're simply after "why not hit a woman?" then...than's not really a discussion. Its a fairly stupid question, even.

Because the answer to the second question is painfully obvious, I'll try to answer the first one:


We live in a society where women are gradually getting more equal to men, but where violence against women is still highly prevalent and "specialized". Women get brutalized on a daily basis and are the subject of a kind of violence and harassment that most men dont face. This in turn has created a sort of general "gentlemens code" over the last two centuries where it has become more and more prevalent that you simply dont hurt women. The idea seems to be that you can hurt men all you want because "they can take it" and women cant, so the idea itself is born a little out of bigotry.

However there might also be a trace reason that violence is prevalent in male culture and has not had a big part in female culture in human history, and therefore hitting a woman would count as "hitting a non-combatant" in a sense, something that has been considered wrong for a long time.

So yeah, old gender roles and stereotypes play a role.


These days? Well, with the rise of feminism and women in more and more positions that were previously dominated by men, the lines between "combatant" and "non-combatant" is getting a little blurry in some countries. So the "dont hit a woman"-just because she's a woman-code might be on the way out. That and there's a crisscross of "political correctness" where the old is in conflict with the new, so you'll find that people are generally quite divided over this so far.

Of course due to the nature of this argument I need to add that you shouldnt hit people in the first place, but I figured I'd try putting it in historical and cultural context.

 

[GundamSentinel]

Well, one reason not to hit back might be that if the authorities get involved, chances are they'll assume the man was the aggressor, especially in domestic situations, and you could find yourself in legal hotwater if you don't have any good witnesses to back up your side of the story.

Which is weird, as in most cases it's women who initiate violence in domestic cases. When it concerns nonreciprocal domestic violence, in 70% of the cases the woman is the perpetrator (Journal of Public Health study).

Me, if someone hits me I doubt I'd hit back, whoever it is. I'm not really a violent person.

Captcha: four by two
Captcha does not share my opinion apparently.

 

[Nathaniel Grey]

Well I've read all your comments and I must thank you Escapist for making me realize something. It appears as though the "rule" don't hit women doesn't seem to exist. The rule "Don't hit people in general" seems to be alive and well which is very interesting turn of events. I would have never guessed people felt that way. But there are some minuscule issues with what people are addressing in my original post. To clarify, I wasn't using the wolf of wall street example as an example of a situation. I'm using it as an analogy for the reactions of people when men hit women. The deep inhale when Leonardo di caprio's character hit nyomi was specifically what I was referring to. In addition many seem to be giving examples of why people don't do it in general. Societal views, police involvement, etc. I already know that stuff. I'm aware of that. I specifically asked you not to tell me that in the Original Post. What I was looking for (Which many of you answered wonderfully by the way) was if you don't do it, hit women, what is your reasoning for not. Many answered, as aforementioned, "I don't hit anyone". Which is an acceptable answer. Is there anyone who has no problem hitting men, but hitting women simply bugs them?

 

[sumanoskae]

As far as I can tell, man, there is no logic behind it.

The average response from people who engage in that behavior is usually either; "I know it's illogical, but it's how I was raised"; or "Because I'm a nice person".

One could make an argument that it isn't an inherent difference between the sexes that means women shouldn't be hit, but a difference between societal roles that leaves women at a disadvantage, but that argument goes out the window when you account for the fact that, on average, if a man and a woman come to blows most passerby's will assume the man started it. Further more, if you account for one extenuating circumstance, you must account for others.

It's true that men are generally larger than women, but who's to say that this woman isn't a trained martial artist, or this man is smaller than average, or the woman isn't armed, or is perhaps simply bigger (I'm male and I'm not that big).

Size is also not everything; women tend to be more flexible, more resistant to pain, more flexible and have generally greater stamina than men. All of these things can be of use in a fight under the correct circumstances.

I would also theorize that the reason there is such a perceived gap between the genders when it comes to fighting is because;
A: Males are more often the target audience for and encouraged to participate in things like boxing and MMA.
B: Women are more often the targets for severe violence than men when it comes to criminality.

The argument for the average man VS the average woman doesn't hold up because nobody is totally average. This is also discounting the moral issue that simply because you can't properly defend yourself doesn't give you the right to instigate violence and expect not to be hit back.

 

[Lieju]

However there might also be a trace reason that violence is prevalent in male culture and has not had a big part in female culture in human history, and therefore hitting a woman would count as "hitting a non-combatant" in a sense, something that has been considered wrong for a long time.

And if we are talking about a language in movies, women (and children) are often used as a short-hand for 'non-combatant'. If you want to stress how the bad guy is bad, show them killing a woman. Or a child, but more movies tend to shy away from that.

I haven't seen the movie in question, but maybe a part of the reason why what the guy did was more shocking was because the audience identified with him more than the woman?

 

[Pyrokinesis]

Lets not get hung up on the "woman" part of this. For the most part equal force will apply, a slap "can" instigate a slap in return but gender has nothing to do with it. The real issue is that the people who choose to take force over words are in the wrong and lack the composure to deal with either loosing an argument or dealing with ignorant people. Returning such lack of composure only makes you just as bad as them. Yet again this is gender neutral. There may be a common trope that women can slap men no harm or foul but that is supposition. Force is force and using it in such a childish and un-composed manner only demeans your character. Regardless of whether the one who used it on you is lacking in composure (in a clearly verbal non-violent situation), you should not stoop to their level.