Hitting... Women

Aramis Night

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Caiphus said:
Aramis Night said:
I really want to address some of the rationalizations for what is an appropriate response for a women physically assaulting a man. People seem to like to bring up weight differences and cry foul based on that. We'll if that is the criteria for why its unacceptable for men to hit women, but perfectly acceptable for women to hit men, then by your own standards a 120 lb man should be allowed to smack 200 lb women with no expectation of physical retaliation. In order for your argument to have any sense of logical consistency, this is in fact what your advocating. It's either that or you simply have to acknowledge that your sexist. If you are that's fine(well not really), but at least be honest about it.
I have a feeling you might have been referring, at least partly, to me there, so I'll just clarify my own opinion (no idea about anyone else's). A woman hitting a man out of anger is absolutely in the wrong as well. And a 200lb woman hitting a much smaller man would be almost (because a 200lb woman is still unlikely to be as strong as a 200 lb man) as reprehensible as if the genders were reversed. And that woman should be punished by the law. And the man would, probably, be justified in responding with force, as being attacked by a larger individual is going to reasonably make you fear for your safety.

However, it's still wrong for the person to hit back out of anger. I wrote this on the first page of the thread, but moral outrage increases the greater the disparity with regards to strength and fighting ability. If a 120 lb woman slaps a man, she's in the wrong (unless she did it out of self-defence). Her actions might have been understandable*, or even relatable (which is currently being discussed in the other thread on hitting people), but she's wrong. There is no right to hit people if they piss you off. There is a right to self defence, but not a right to punish people physically. Furthermore, her wrong action doesn't then justify a punch in return. And this is the same if the genders are reversed.

*This is important, and relevant to the discussion going on in the other thread. If you've been bullied constantly for months, I absolutely understand lashing out in frustration. My best friend in high school had Asperger's. I know how bullying feels. You still don't have a right to hit people, unfortunately.
I appreciate your candor. I disagree on some details, but at least your position allows for some consistency. My own personal experience on the subject has shown that sadly, things often escalate. While i have this far advocated for equal treatment on this issue, i must admit to some hypocrisy. When my ex-fiance tried to kill me, i could not bring myself to hit her. I attempted to restrain her much like what others here have advocated. It didn't diffuse the situation. Instead she resorted to using weapons to try to kill me. Almost 2 decades later, i still have obvious scars on my left arm from where she slashed me with razor blades. Thankfully the other scars have all healed up. My point is sometimes self-defense isn't enough. She outweighed me by 10 lbs.(I was 120 lbs. at the time). I found out later she was high on meth at the time. The whole situation was just a mess.
 

Caiphus

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Mar 31, 2010
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Aramis Night said:
I appreciate your candor. I disagree on some details, but at least your position allows for some consistency. My own personal experience on the subject has shown that sadly, things often escalate. While i have this far advocated for equal treatment on this issue, i must admit to some hypocrisy. When my ex-fiance tried to kill me, i could not bring myself to hit her. I attempted to restrain her much like what others here have advocated. It didn't diffuse the situation. Instead she resorted to using weapons to try to kill me. Almost 2 decades later, i still have obvious scars on my left arm from where she slashed me with razor blades. Thankfully the other scars have all healed up. My point is sometimes self-defense isn't enough. She outweighed me by 10 lbs.(I was 120 lbs. at the time). I found out later she was high on meth at the time. The whole situation was just a mess.
Wow, well that's one of those things that you learn about people that leave you lost for words. Sorry for what happened. Whether you didn't fight back because she was a women or because she was your fiancee, that's a terrible thing to have happened, and I'm sorry to hear it.

Anyway, there is no doubt that you would have been justified in striking her, pinning her down, whatever, especially after she started using weapons, although I'm sure you realise that now. I have no idea how I'd react in that situation. And I do understand that, when you're attacked by a larger woman, that societal pressures can put you in an awkward and dangerous position. Again, hitting out when in a dangerous position is fine. Hitting out when frustrated, angry or jealous isn't, even if it may be understandable given the circumstances. So yeah.

And even if you do disagree, thanks for being charming about it. It's refreshing, given the rest of this bloody thread.
 

Ometochtli

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Sep 10, 2008
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I hate fighting, and would only hit someone in self defense. If someone attacked me, I would fight back, no matter the gender of my attacker, I would do whatever I need to do to ensure my own safety.
 

Crazycat690

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Suppose there is none, though I don't think you should hit anyone, male or female. Unless they deserve it, I'm all for peace and harmony and all that but I also have the firm belief that not all battles can be won by being passive. If a person, male or female, is provoking you beyond belief, and is swinging at you, they won't back down just because you "take it like a man".
 

Orinon

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The Old context for not striking a women was back then women were viewed differently and would not (And it was assumed) could not defend themselves. So to strike a woman was wrongful, abusive because you hit her first, and she wouldn't hit back.
I was slapped in the face by a girl, My logic for not hitting back was thus
"Well that girl did just slap me and its stings but I'm bigger than her and its not an equal retaliation."
It's more of a restraint and not giving in, a slap won't endanger you, to basic instinct.
I don't think if a girl wanted to hurt me she'd resort to slapping, and if she is trying to hurt me I'd try to get out of there.
 

Phantom Kat

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Sep 26, 2012
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I don't see why their gender is important. If the person slaps you, you only have to use the minimum amount of force (either physical or non-physical) to dissuade them from hitting you again. Ideally, people wouldn't be hitting each other and this wouldn't be a problem.
 

Chris Moses

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Nov 22, 2013
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Seeing how I am larger and stronger than most women, the need to demonstrate my ability to physically dominate a situation is moot. I could give two shits about social norms what I am supposed to do or what I am supposed to impotently rant against on internet forums.

I also wouldn't hit a male that is significantly smaller and weaker than me, even if he threw the first punch. I could give two shits about "what I am supposed to do I a fight".

I am 38 years old and this has served me well through life and don't foresee any problems arising from this stance. The likelihood of me being in a fist fight is low enough already.

Sure you can bring up a scenario where I "might absolutely have to", and I can say I was too busy feeding Fruity Pebbles to my pet unicorn named "Pokey". There are ways to restrain people that don't involve hitting... but I would "if I had to".

Remind the smaller, weaker one that they have already lost the argument by resorting to violence against a superior opponent and you can win the conflict without throwing a punch. I also like to remind people that I am allowed to hit them as hard as they hit me.
 

Elesar

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Apr 16, 2009
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I'm too lazy to read through the entire thread to see if someone brought up this point, but the important element is this:

When she slaps him, it's not designed to cause damage, it's just another form of insult. When he slapped her back, it WAS designed to cause damage, IE to knock her down. And perhaps it's just my experience, but that wasn't the moment the movie presented as his 'crossing the line' moment (indeed, it just sailed past that particular moment). The moment the movie presented as him going too far was when he punched her in the stomach.

Of course you're allowed to defend yourself if threatened regardless of gender, etc. etc. etc. but that's not the point of that scene. He wasn't threatened by her, by she was by him.
 

Icehearted

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Jul 14, 2009
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Curiously, in my state (Washington) any altercation between a man and a woman will always automatically mean his arrest and prosecution by the state. Men are, under absolutely no circumstances, legally permitted to fight a woman, even if she is the instigator (a police sergeant explained this to me when I was trying to report a domestic violence dispute I'd witnessed). The female may or may not face charges, but the laws very specifically protect women and prosecute men only, under all circumstances.

I think this is feminism gone terribly wrong, but what to I know, I'm only a man.

Ironically, most domestic violence, including against women, men, and small children, are perpetrated by women. This is not to say that women are more violent than men, though societally and legally they are permitted to be so, and it is more acceptable, but in a lot of cases because of America's favoritism toward women with regard to child custody women are simply around their children more than men are, so naturally the numbers are greater. Statistically violence happens against men more than women, but again, feminism has stated otherwise (the actual numbers speak for themselves to the contrary).

I'm not for physical violence either way, but legally, even if a woman ambushes me or pulls a weapon on me because where I live it is illegal to harm them because I have a penis and they have a vagina.

So there's your reason NOT to do it, because in the state of Washington my penis means that for me it's illegal under all circumstances.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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Elesar said:
When she slaps him, it's not designed to cause damage, it's just another form of insult. When he slapped her back, it WAS designed to cause damage, IE to knock her down.
how do you know this?
because i certainly can try to insult somone with a slap just as well as any woman would. in fact it may be even more effective as it would be a hard one to swollow for her. im not talking about slaping to knock out, but slapping so she would feel the contact.

P.S. im not saying i support this stance, merely taking the quoted logic and proving it false.
 

Yuuki

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Mar 19, 2013
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As long as men (overall) hold the biological advantage in size/strength/speed, hitting women will be looked down upon by society. Always. If women were the ones who held the physical advantage, things would be the other way around.

Even in 3rd world countries where women seemingly get disrespected outright (e.g. India, middle-east, etc) it's still considered pathetic and extremely cowardly to bring any physical harm to women. It's not uncommon for such perpetrators to get beaten senseless or KILLED by angry mobs of men (e.g. friends/relatives of the female) if they are found to be doing such a thing.

We live in times where men and women are more "equal" than ever, but that doesn't change the fact that messages like this are still common...and they exist for a reason:

 

Darkbladex96

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Jan 25, 2011
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My mother used to say "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." But that's just idealistic crap. My response to said quote has always been "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, if you give them to chance to pluck out your eyes."

I've lived by that since I was about 10 years old and never looked back. If any part of a person moves towards me in a threatening way, they'll get kneed in the gut and punched in the face, hopefully they'll fall down. It's not about them, or their sex (because that's what this is really about it's not about gender). I'm just not going to tolerate people getting aggressive with me and trying to put their hands on me as an insult or to harm, it's just not going to happen.

People talking about, being the bigger person, showing that you're more rational and intelligent, and responding with violence making you just as bad as they are. I don't care.

I don't have to prove my intelligent to the people around me, and definitely not to the bystanders that I don't even know.

Being the bigger person (in the scenario of a physical altercation) doesn't solve problems, it just lets them fester and persist until the problem rears it's ugly head again.

Other men stepping into the fray? Let them, I enjoy a good tussle from time to time. Actions have consequences and I accept the consequences of my actions.

Proving that you're more rational? I'm perfectly rational. Is it so much to ask that people not put their hands on you if they intend to harm or insult you? If they decide to cross that line are they not bullying a dragon? Perhaps you play with fire and don't usually get burn, but should you really be surprised when you do get burned? Should a person be surprised that a lion mauled them when they stood too close to the cage? I don't want people hitting me, so when I see the blow coming, I put them on their ass.

Responding to violence with violence makes you as bad as they are. And? Violence works for a reason. Thinking creatures don't like pain. Violence is easy and usually doesn't take long. Everything thinking being responds to violence and pain; most of those responses are predictable. Either they will fight for dominance, submit then and act up later, prompting more violence (leading to permanent submission or continued problems in which case you just stop associating with that person) or submit permanently. I don't want people starting stuff with me, then the next day starting the exact same stuff, so when it escalates to violence I respond faster and more viciously than the original threat.

And none of that is out of anger. None of it. I don't like violence, but it has a place and a purpose. Could I respond in other ways? yes. But I chose to take the easiest and quickest road.
 

King Aragorn

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Mar 15, 2013
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I'm all for equality and also a feminist *actual one, not FeminiNAZI*, but I acknowledge that we can't get equality down to nature and biology. The reason why it's looked down upon is the strong attacking the weak, thus this was born. Also admittedly there is some sort of cultural influence when it comes to this taboo as men are seen as being the protective, more dominant sex thus attacking a woman is seen as taboo.
But, one thing I must address is ''more males are raped than females'' a year this is flat out incorrect. Male rape cases, while being a serious thing that needs to be addressed *especially the fact that so many reports go unheard of due to the stigma that would generate from a man saying he was sexuality assaulted* form almost 1% of rape cases out there. Rape/abuse on woman is significantly larger when it comes to numbers.
 

Fearzone

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Dec 3, 2008
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Just walk away, is the answer, if somebody hits you.

Regardless of gender.

And don't be their friend.
 

Callate

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As has been mentioned, typically, men have more upper-body strength than women. A man striking out without restraint is more likely to do serious damage than a woman who slaps someone because her temper got the better of her.

That said, it's not okay for a woman to slap a man, either, and if you make a habit of hitting people, eventually someone is going to hit you back; whatever your sex, I'm probably not going to rush to your defense if it happens, either.
 

riotAlice

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Dec 4, 2013
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It's never alright to cause another human pain. It is NOT okay to hit men. It is NOT okay to hit women. But if someone slaps you out of anger and you are physically stronger than this person and know you will cause this person a lot more harm than they caused you, have the decency and self-restraint to walk away. Humans are at their most pathetic when they are unable to control their basic emotions and being unable to express anger in any way but violence is a sign of mental and emotional weakness.

I would also point out the events that have been taking place here in Australia, where several young men have been killed by a single punch to the head. One hit it is all it takes. Just don't hit people for pity's sake.
 

Siege_TF

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There are so many wonderful ways to inflict pain on your fellow (hu)man than simple striking. A solid punch in the face may be satisfying, but much like swearing it lacks... imagination.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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King Aragorn said:
*actual one, not FeminiNAZI*
I wonder why you differentiate between real and make-believe in the first place, then. "Feminazi" as a term has no real useful meaning. It's a strawman used to misportray feminists, and attempting to use the word only propagates the idea that these "feminazis" exist. Which they technically do, because the term was coined to malign feminists. In short, just by bringing up the evil feminazi, you're doing a disservice to the feminists you just sought to try and support.

It's almost like saying you like black people but hater niggers. No amount of quoting Chris Rock will make this a better statement.

However....

The reason why it's looked down upon is the strong attacking the weak, thus this was born.
And the thing is, when you've got an average of 5" and at probably 20-30 lbs on someone, you should be able to handle them without striking them, regardless of which restroom they use. I mean, yeah, maybe the person in question is a black belt or something, but in a normal situation you probably don't need to be hitting someone when you approach a certain threshold.

But, one thing I must address is ''more males are raped than females'' a year this is flat out incorrect.
This is just MRA apologetics and should be treated as such. MRA want to make men out to be the victim in pretty much every circumstances, even the ones where men are the ones making the rules. It's...Strange.

Callate said:
As has been mentioned, typically, men have more upper-body strength than women. A man striking out without restraint is more likely to do serious damage than a woman who slaps someone because her temper got the better of her.
While we're on the subject, I've seen a bunch of people in the past justify slugging a woman who hit with an open-handed slap, and they think these are comparable. I mean, you can probably consider any man who slaps you an instigator, but that's still an escalation of force and it's kind of absurd.

On the flip side, anyone who feels threatened and feels like they need to defend themselves from an open-handed slap should really feel ashamed of themselves. Well, unless there's some medical condition in the mix. That is just so ridiculous.

Then again, I live in a country where you can shoot someone for punching you, so I guess we're okay with escalation.