Hitting... Women

[Caiphus]

Also, I don't mind you personally losing respect for me as long as you don't hit me, because then you'd also be losing a few teeth.

Yeah, don't threaten people when they suggest that hitting someone defenseless is disgusting. Because it is, even if they hit you first. And it doesn't make you look very good when you react violently to that suggestion by bragging that you're an "equal opportunity ass-kicker".

Edit:

Snip

I would edit your post if I were you, specifically to remove references to trolling and other insults.

 

[Yan007]

Hello dear ick99,

First, I want to say I am very real. And yes, if a woman hits me, "I will put her in her place." Funny enough that you equate a woman hitting me as "standing up to me". On the contrary, I think women assaulting men are cowards using social norms to their advantage so I feel no remorse in showing them the equal treatment I would give a man doing the same thing to me. I never sent anyone to the hospital because that would be overkill, but if someone hits me then they get a bloody nose or a black eye.

No, if a woman (you?) hits me, I won't ask her politely to stop. I'll hit her right back and she will remember not to hit other people ever again.

Have a nice day.

XXX

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

Hitting people is bad, mmkay? You shouldn't hit people, ever.

Self defense is completely different but there's all sorts of unnecessary risks with violence. You punch someone on the street there's no guarantee they wont fall bad enough to hit their head and do permanent damage.

And now you spend 6 years in prison because you couldn't exercise restraint.

Even something as harmless as slapping someone can do permanent damage to their eyes if you hit at a sufficiently unlucky angle. This shit aint worth it for a petty argument.

It really really isn't worth risking serious physical injury for a petty disagreement, or even a major one.

 

[Yan007]

Yeah, don't threaten people when they suggest that hitting someone defenseless is disgusting. Because it is, even if they hit you first. And it doesn't make you look very good when you react violently to that suggestion by bragging that you're an "equal opportunity ass-kicker".

What can I say? I just like to treat everyone equally, not based on gender. I'm not sexist.

 

[WaltherFeng]

Minimum force approach is the best way, regardless of the gender. A woman assaults you physically, therefore he is a threat to you, herself and everyone around her.

You restrain her, let her know that she has no right to do that and let her cool off. Once she verbally states that she's calm enough to have a discussion without flailing her arms around, you release her.

All this is basic use of force 101 and falls under justifiable self defence.

 

[Caiphus]

What can I say? I just like to treat everyone equally, not based on gender.

But you don't. And I suspect that you know you don't. Because we aren't born equal. And to suggest otherwise says to me that you're being deliberately obtuse. Hitting a 200lb man is not the same as hitting a 120lb woman. If you believe that it is then I have nothing to say to you and I don't believe that you are fit to have any discussion about the morality surrounding violence.

And the law is on my side, by the way.

Provocation is not a defence in most Western countries, and it is certainly not a justification, nor should it be. It's an excuse, and a partial one at best. Self defence only applies when you believe you are in danger. Any less is wrong.

 

[Yan007]

What can I say? I just like to treat everyone equally, not based on gender. I'm not sexist.

But you don't. And I suspect that you know you don't Because we aren't born equal. And to suggest otherwise says to me that you're being deliberately obtuse. Hitting a 200lb man is not the same as hitting a 120lb woman. If you believe that it is then I have nothing to say to you and I don't believe that you are fit to have any discussion about the morality surrounding violence.

And the law is on my side, by the way.

Provocation is not a defence in most Western countries, and it is certainly not a justification, nor should it be. It's an excuse, and a partial one at best. Self defence only applies when you believe you are in danger. Any less is wrong.

And here's my final take on this: Ladies, be very aware that some men don't care about laws once you hit them. You would be very wise to never use force against anyone, especially 200lbs+ guys, and if you do, I hope you'll not be hitting me because I'll hit you back. That's one of the first things I'll teach my daughter if I have one - never ever engage a man physically because you don't know when your slap will be returned.

 

[Caiphus]

And here's my final take on this: Ladies, be very aware that some men don't care about laws once you hit them. You would be very wise to never use force against anyone, especially 200lbs+ guys, and if you do, I hope you'll not be hitting me because I'll hit you back. That's one of the first things I'll teach my daughter if I have one - never ever engage a man physically because you don't know when your slap will be returned.

And again with the vague threats.

I really do hate these threads.

Anyway, luckily, there are plenty of people who do care about laws. I hope that you teach any future daughters to stay away from people who don't.

 

[WaltherFeng]

He only knows how to respond to physical violence with more violence despite the fact that he claims "to go to gym 5 times a week".

As a security manager, I find that a terrible waste. More powerful you are, the easier it is to subdue another person without hurting yourself and him/her.

If your justification for use of force is "I want to hurt him as much as he did me", your priorities are completely screwed and shows that you have clear anger management issues.

 

[Lieju]

Men don't simply beat weaker victims because they are weaker. Anything that is not a man will most likely be a woman (duh) and be weaker. On the other hand, males are the gender most likely to be assaulted, to die from violence and more male than female are molested/raped every single year.

I have been assaulted twice in my life.

Once by a guy who was just having a bad day and he happened to see me alone in an abandoned corridor where he could take out his anger and frustration on someone weaker.

The other time it was someone who wanted to teach a lesson for someone who is openly gay. And for some reason they didn't attack a burly gay guy one on one.

It is human nature to prey on those weaker than you.

Also where do you get your 'fact' than men are more likely to be molested and raped?

 

[Call me Baz]

The majority of what I've been reading in this thread is idealistic crap, and I sincerely hope those people writing it are aware they aren't being realistic.

"You shouldn't ever hit someone unless your life depends on it .." Guess what, emotional responses happen ALL THE TIME and they will always win out against ideals you have unless you have been conditioned to accept ridiculous amounts of stress or antagonisation which isn't emotionally healthy.

The main problem with men hitting women as I see it is equivalency, some people may think "she hit me with half strength, I hit her with half strength that's fair" then it isn't (on average). Ideally it would be "She hit me with X pounds of force, so I shall hit back with X and it is equivalent" or even "I hit back with <X so she knows she wont get away with it" but even THESE more balanced approaches are likely to be brushed aside by an enraged mind.

I'd be surprised if someone could remember what they had for dinner the night before being in a physical confrontation of any type with the amount of control your brain has when put under that stress.

Surely an equally logical argument to "Guys shouldn't hit girls because reasons" is "Girls shouldn't hit guys because they'll get hurt much worse than the guy" - which I consider to be a far more convincing reason. There's already a saying like that though I guess; that goes "Don't start what you ain't prepared to finish".

 

[Call me Baz]

awhoops ;-;

double post

 

[WaltherFeng]

"You shouldn't ever hit someone unless your life depends on it .." Guess what, emotional responses happen ALL THE TIME and they will always win out against ideals you have unless you have been conditioned to accept ridiculous amounts of stress or antagonisation which isn't emotionally healthy.

Doesn't matter if it happens or not. They are absolutely right regardless and punching someone "as emotional response" is not going to make you emotionally healthier.

 

[michael87cn]

All I can say is the reason for the audiences reaction was because they were taught not to hit women just like you were.

Really nobody should be hitting anybody, if it ever comes to that there is not real love present. People who love other people don't hit them. The desire to hit something is tantamount to the desire to see it die, even if, briefly for a moment.

And, a single punch can kill. Houdini died from a punch to the stomach. Internal bleeding.

 

[Lieju]

Men don't simply beat weaker victims because they are weaker. Anything that is not a man will most likely be a woman (duh) and be weaker. On the other hand, males are the gender most likely to be assaulted, to die from violence and more male than female are molested/raped every single year.

I have been assaulted twice in my life.

Once by a guy who was just having a bad day and he happened to see me alone in an abandoned corridor where he could take out his anger and frustration on someone weaker.

The other time it was someone who wanted to teach a lesson for someone who is openly gay. And for some reason they didn't attack a burly gay guy one on one.

It is human nature to prey on those weaker than you.

Also where do you get your 'fact' than men are more likely to be molested and raped?

But that doesn't necessarily mean that every, or even most acts of violence like that are to someone who is weaker.

Most fights in my life have been with someone who was either the same build as me, bigger, or more than one person. Believe or not, those who enjoy violence doesn't always necessarily care who they fight. I wouldn't say I'm violent per se. But when I'm in an incredibly shitty state and actually feel like fighting at that point I wouldn't care who it was with.

Not necessarily, no.

But he was saying that 'men don't simply beat on weaker victims because they are weaker'.

Which I disagreed with. Most violence I've seen was with people attacking those who were weaker, either by ganging up on them, or choosing weaker victims.

And in either of the cases I mentioned it wasn't a 'fight'. It was a one-sided assault, where they specifically went after me because I was physically weak.

 

[CrystalShadow]

It's a hangover from when women were considered the weaker, more delicate sex who needed to be protected.

In terms of domestic violence I would imagine it also has to do with disliking the idea of a (stereotypically) much larger, much physically stronger man taking out his anger on a smaller target who couldn't realistically fight back, plus there are connotations of a husband "owning" his wife and being allowed to do whatever he wants to her (bear in mind that until relatively recently it was largely believed that it wasn't possibly for a man to rape his partner, for example).

That wasn't just a belief, it was enshrined in the very legal definition of what rape was. - And the outcomes of modern rape trials statistically still show all the same biases that this archaic definition would imply...
(By it's original legal definition, you could only be raped if you were married, and by definition your husband could not rape you. - That's because the definition of rape was originally the theft of a man's exclusive conjugal rights... Meaning that, on top of every other insulting implication of that definition, to top it all off, the 'victim' of a rape, was the husband, and not the woman that had actually been raped...)

That said, as a woman I have always found the "never hit girls under any circumstances" rule insulting. If a woman starts a fight she shouldn't be able to waltz off without any consequences solely because of her gender. Not that it's something to be proud of, but I've been in fights with people of both genders. The man I fought with was perfectly justified in hitting me back, even if he was in the wrong overall (from my point of view, anyway ).

*standard disclaimer about how ideally no one should be hitting anyone in the first place*

I agree. The idea that you should be able to get away with violent behaviour without suffering any consequences simply because of gender alone is pretty messed up.

On the other hand, the old idea it was based on is reasonable enough in some regards...
Someone who is physically powerful shouldn't be using that advantage to abuse or intimidate those much weaker than they are. (The assumption that that's actually always true between men and women is another issue of course...)
An extreme example of this kind of thing is if an adult gets in a fight with a child...

Even if the child started it, and is being quite violent, it's still not really ok for an adult to just hit them back with no regard for the difference in strength...

If you are clearly more powerful, you have a duty to show some restraint towards those weaker than you. This should apply in ALL circumstances really, and for any kind of power (physical, mental, political, social, wealth... etc.)
But, all too often it's forgotten about, and instead you have those who can overpower others just doing as they please with little regard for others.

Not that this really has anything to do with men & women anymore, because the assumption that a man is always stronger than a woman is just... Not really a fair assumption...

 

[Aramis Night]

I really want to address some of the rationalizations for what is an appropriate response for a women physically assaulting a man. People seem to like to bring up weight differences and cry foul based on that. We'll if that is the criteria for why its unacceptable for men to hit women, but perfectly acceptable for women to hit men, then by your own standards a 120 lb man should be allowed to smack 200 lb women with no expectation of physical retaliation. In order for your argument to have any sense of logical consistency, this is in fact what your advocating. It's either that or you simply have to acknowledge that your sexist. If you are that's fine(well not really), but at least be honest about it.

 

[Eamar]

What kind of lives are people living that women are whaling on them all the time? Does this seriously come up that often?

Hopefully no one here's living with a constant threat of violence, but obviously you never know...

I think the main reason this comes up is because in the media it is not at all uncommon to show a woman slapping a man, and for audiences to not think it's a big deal in any way. A lot of the time it's even made out to be a good, "empowering" thing.

[sub][sub]This is actually problematic for reasons other than the one being discussed here too (it implies that women are weak and their pathetic attempts at violence could never cause any real damage to a "real" man)[/sub][/sub]

On the other hand, if a man hits a woman in a similar way in a film or on TV (as described in the OP), it's considered shocking.

This leads to lots of people coming up with hypothetical arguments and moral positions that most of them will probably never actually have to test in real life.

 

[Aramis Night]

Yes let's all talk about how it's right to hit women considering all the women hospitalized or killed for domestic violence. I'm sure they deserved it when they slapped a man across the face.

I need a drink.

Did the man in question deserve the slap, then? Maybe one shouldn't go around concluding arguments or verbal confrontations by slapping/physically assaulting the other party. Kicking the crap out of the slapper in retaliation is a terrible thing, to be sure, and unacceptable. But walking away from a slap can be very, very hard, if it is given as an argument-ender. The slapper should be reminded that the road of physical assault starts here, and should end there as well-and not necessarily with a counter-slap.

...

What are you having? I'll swill some rum, in the meantime.

Sorry but are you saying that if you slap someone you deserve to be hospitalized and killed?
Can you maybe rethink that for a bit... and maybe rethink everything you've ever thought.

Wow... I don't think that's what I meant at all. You should calm down- When I said, it won't necessarily end with a counter slap, I meant you should talk it through, and not slap in the first place.

jeez, I guess I'm now wearing your drink, so I'll just mosey off down the bar before you slap me...

Oh c'mon now. Didn't you realize that advocating for a non-violent solution in the face of female violence is akin to advocating for her death?

Don't worry Strawman Mcfallacy, It's obvious your looking for an opposing view to fight and get your righteousness on. I'll be your ...strawman. I would say that a woman who initiates violence should expect to receive violence in kind. I have the odd notion that equality extends to women. If I ran around slapping things that offended me, I would have 2 bloody stumps starting at the shoulder after the first day. But more likely I would expect to eventually get hospitalized, possibly killed. It's a realistic expectation. But I recognize cause and consequence enough to know that if I open the door of physical violence by slapping people, there will be violent physical repercussions. And I would rightfully deserve to get beaten to death for it. I don't care how much you want to minimize the woman's role in that situation. A situation that wouldn't exist in the first place if the slap had never happened. So how about we start with no slapping. Seems like a pretty modest proposal, no?

Yes, let's all go around nodding our heads in agreement that there's probably a portion of hospitalizations and deaths that were deserved. This is a helpful viewpoint and discussion for us to have. Maybe we should have this talk when severe damage is on both sides of the genders and not use terms like 'equality' with such disregard to the world around us.
Let's go find some good loopholes for when it's okay to hit women, like there's some sort of fucking shortage of women being hit by men in the world.
And trust me, those men all fucking justified in some way, just like everyone here seems to be doing.
Good hustle people.

Wow, you live up to your name. I just love how you can so willingly justify one group of people assaulting another as though its just a given entitlement women deserve to have with no repercussions. And then try to call men out for daring to retaliate in kind.

But hey, ill keep up my end of this as i promised you earlier. Yes, I'm sure there are women who have been hospitalized after initiating physical violence who deserved it. There are men who have also been killed and hospitalized for the same thing and they deserved it as well. That is what equality is. It is judging on the action's of the person and acting accordingly, not basing your actions on what the person is. I'm sorry that someone at some point convinced you that equality = privilege based on what you are, but it just isn't the case. I do not see it as my privilege to assault other people. Yet your advocating that women should be able to do just that. If men can't, women can't. That is equality.

Sorry but maybe someone actually needs to explain to you what equality and privilege actually is. Is it equal that women are more likely to be victims of severe domestic violence? Is it a privilege that we understand this to be a serious issue. That maybe it's enough of an issue that we don't try to come up with as many justifications for it is possible because I'm sure there's plenty of "justifications" people make already.

Also where did I say anyone deserved death or being sent to a hospital. I'm personally on the side of not-murder but apparently you're cool with murder as long as there's a slap involved? Also where did I generalize and say all men do this to all women.

No, but you're all right, let's look for some reasons to hit women, they sure do have it coming don't they.

Actually, I'm only arguing for 1 justification. The only justification for being violent with another human being is if they have chosen to be violent with you or someone you care about. You just take issue with it not lending itself to your belief that women should have the right to initiate domestic violence by hitting men unopposed.

It is not equal that women are more likely to be victims of extreme domestic violence. You would think that being the case women would be less willing to initiate it. I don't see how treating that like a prerogative they need to have, is going to help with that. Actually given how much money and government programs we have for domestic violence, i do think that it is a privilege that domestic violence is seen as an issue considering how many other equally serious issues are not treated with such importance.

 

[TekMoney]

Actually, I'm only arguing for 1 justification. The only justification for being violent with another human being is if they have chosen to be violent with you or someone you care about. You just take issue with it not lending itself to your belief that women should have the right to initiate domestic violence by hitting men unopposed.

It is not equal that women are more likely to be victims of extreme domestic violence. You would think that being the case women would be less willing to initiate it. I don't see how treating that like a prerogative they need to have, is going to help with that. Actually given how much money and government programs we have for domestic violence, i do think that it is a privilege that domestic violence is seen as an issue considering how many other equally serious issues are not treated with such importance.

This is one of the most twisted things I have ever read. You think it's a privilege that domestic violence is seen as an issue? What the fuck? So victims should be grateful that any attention is paid to them? Is this because in your own mind some of them had it coming? There are so many things wrong with this. I need a fucking shower after reading your post.