Holy crap, Frozen suuuuuucks.

[Drathnoxis]

They are NOT under his rule. He is not a prince of the land, he is a random foreigner whom Anna put in a trusted position and who is already using that to threaten others who would make a power play.

Okay, maybe "rule" was the wrong word, but he was placed in charge and he takes good care of the people under him. And I fail to see how protecting Anna's kingdom from usurpers who would prey on the chaos is a bad thing.

The only solo lines that Hans has in the song, are either singing in parallel with Anna's love song, but about the PLACE that he found, or blatantly pandering to Anna's hope that they have a lot in common. It's a manufactured love song, where Anna is singing and Hans is playing catch-up.

I'm sure that's what they were intending, but 'place' could also mean 'place with her' and is pretty poor foreshadowing, especially combined with this scene:
There is no way that dreamy smile is him thinking he's found a kingdom to take over. There is no way to combine a sigh like that with covetous intentions.

You should have changed your MLP avatar before typing this. Would have been less hypocritical.

Maybe, but I haven't thought MLP was a good show since the first season, and I would say that the over reliance on love as the solution for everything is nearly as bad as in Frozen. It's only slightly better as it's clearly the main focus of the show, I mean, it's in the title.

 

[chocolate pickles]

I do find it weird how adults obsess over movies made for tiny children, and it is a little discouraging.

I haven't seen much of Frozen, but to me it's teh same Disney-schlock they've made since the fucking 30's, not bad enough to get angry about, just boring, uninsprired, unoriginal, silly, stupid and pointless. It is very strange if you sit down to watch it above the age of 10 though, that is weird.

'Discouraging' what, exactly? There's nothing inherently wrong with adults like things made for kids.

Haven't actually watched all of Frozen yet, but I think a lot of your points are valid, especially regarding plot and Hans' 180 personality twist. Definitely wasn't the finest example of Disney plot writing.

 

[Spider RedNight]

. And the way they fix her blizzard? Love. Ugh, I'm going to puke. This is so cliche and stupid

You should have changed your MLP avatar before typing this. Would have been less hypocritical.

I agree with everything you said but especially this. I don't really put a lot of thought into someone tearing down a Disney movie when their icon is MLP xD

OT: I'll admit the movie has its flaws as does EVERY OTHER MOVIE EVER but in general, I liked it. I thought it was better and less pop-y than Tangled and I could get behind the general theme in Frozen - I have a younger sister myself and I can draw a lot of parallels between Anna and Elsa and my sister and myself.

One thing I will mention bothers me though IS the extent of Elsa's powers. I get it, ice-themed everything but... where does it end? It's kind of exaggerated that she can instantly unfreeze everything in like a matter of seconds but actually creating life? That's not ice-based. Neither is the ability to create clothes and ice skates and such.

And I'll admit, I don't FULLY understand why they picked Idina Menzel other than the whole "Let it Go is basically the Disney Princess equivalent of Defying Gravity" but I found her to be rather distracting.

As for all the other stuff mentioned, there are some points but they tend to get lost in the tone of your argument which sounds less point-driven and more "I don't like this over hyped movie so I'm gonna ***** about it".


Buuuuut that's just me. Yeah, it's over-rated a bit but it's not "the worst movie ever ugh I hate it so much" when there's movies like FoodFight and Bee Movie that still exist (I get some people like Bee Movie but I reeeeeally didn't)

 

[Someone Depressing]

I thought that the movie was boring and nonsensical, but that it could still redeem itself from with a strong ending.

"oooh nooo only love will cure her of being stabbed in the chest with the literal manifestation of hypothermia what will we doooo? what do you mean that this was already a plot point before the story already began and was easily concluded with conflict or difficulty? ooh no that wont work because shut up OH NO ANNA DONT DIE"

That's pretty much when this movie went from "post-Kricfalusi Ren and Stimpy" to "the reason why the west should just give in and watch anime until their bones are bleached and flesh rotten because this is why we can't have good things".

Aside from the plot, the music was meaningless and catchy to gain the attention of children who are used to the debased musical filth we call "pop", the animation gained inspiration from The Swing without understanding what made that painting so beautiful and just came off as dull, and even Mulan or Atlantis's art style would have been much better...

And just to hammer in the point that this movie is somehow both toothless and offensive at the same time (aside from Anna not being a black transgender furry enthusiast, of course!) is that 90% of the female of the female character are identical... even from Tangled.

Spoiler: Because making one of them not the literal embodiment of conventional attractiveness would just be far too hard

Identical. They are literally fucking identical. High cheekbones, smooth baby cheeks, along with a generally baby-like face, almost no waist, medium sized thighs, tiny calves, small feet, narrow shoulders, twig-thin.

For comparison, let's use Nani from Lilo and Stitch, my favourite Disney movie of the 2000's.

She had a big nose, was somewhat butch, look at those amazing legs, had small breasts, and could probably beat up most men. And yet the reason why I like her so much is that she's human. In other words, she could be real. She gave much more humanity to her relationship with Lilo and the plot at large, and her appearance fit this.

Now look back up at Anna, Elsa, and Rapu-what's-her-name. They are dolls. Creepy dolls with massive eyes and perfect hourglass figures, along with wooden expressions and glassy bishoujo faces just to complement and abhorrent creepiness of their very existence. Whoever designed them should be thrown into a pit full of sewage and rabid lions. Unless they had face blindness and based them on the same photograph, in which case they probably shouldn't be animators.

 

[JoJo]

Buuuuut that's just me. Yeah, it's over-rated a bit but it's not "the worst movie ever ugh I hate it so much" when there's movies like FoodFight and Bee Movie that still exist (I get some people like Bee Movie but I reeeeeally didn't)

Yeah, anyone making out that Frozen is terrible should go see a genuinely mediocre kids' movie like Space Chimps or Free Birds, Frozen won't look quite so bad then heh. The film isn't perfect but it clearly wasn't shoved out of the door with minimal effort, which is more than I can say for a lot of animated movies.

 

[Dizchu]

Frozen is a decent film. The worst thing about it is that the least creative, most pathetic excuse for a song was the one that "caught on" and now every kid is singing it.

Frozen had some great songs and my faith in humanity is tainted by the fact that four-chord abominations still top the charts. OTHER CHORD PROGRESSIONS EXIST GOD DAMMIT.

Yeah, "Let it Go" is the songwriting equivalent of using a stencil. I hate it with every particle that makes up my anatomy.

 

[Fulbert]

Probably my biggest gripe with this movie is Elsa and her powers, they just make no sense at all. So for all her life, she is struggling to control her power and is completely unable to. The only way she can stop herself from randomly spurting out bursts of frost is to cover her hands with ordinary gloves. This doesn't really make sense as at one point she freezes a lake by stepping on it even though she isn't barefoot, but whatever. The important thing is that she has no control over her power, it just does whatever the heck it wants... That is until she climbs the mountain. Then she has absolute control over her power, she can create intricately designed staircases, floors, and chandeliers. She has so much control that she completely spears an attacking soldier to the wall using icicles without injuring him! If that doesn't require the keenest control over your power I don't know what does. And yet, even though she has such fine control, she is still completely unable to stop herself from somehow freezing the world. How does this even work? Why is she even affecting the city when before now she's needed to be in contact with the things that she freezes. She is so insanely powerful that she is basically an ice god, who can freeze the entire world in an instant. And she was just born like this? Just randomly her parents popped out an ice god? And even though she is an ice god with complete control over her power, she still has absolutely no control over her power. It just doesn't make sense and is never explained.

More than that, why wasn't Elsa ever sent to someone who could teach her to use her powers? The trolls obviously knew a lot about such things, why didn't she study with them? They said it was only going to get worse, but nobody ever thought to take the advice of the mystical wizard creatures that instantly cured the magic ice that Anna got in her eye? On that note, I also thought it was strange that ice to the head was an instant KO for Anna, but the far more deadly ice to the heart took forever to kick in. She's completely fine for like 15 minutes, and then after the song --boom-- she's dying. And the way they fix her blizzard? Love. Ugh, I'm going to puke. This is so cliche and stupid, yeah forget diligent training and self-control, you just need to love someone. This doesn't even make any sense anyway. Why did she confine herself to her room for all those years if not for love of her sister? Obviously she didn't want to hurt Anna again because she loved her.

She wasn't trying and failing to control her powers, but to repress them. With the memory of having hurt a loved one, and taught by her parents "to control it, not show it", she just tried to suppress her powers, and all those incidents were a kind of Freudian slips, her subconscious trying to find its way outside. When she accepted herself and her powers, she quickly found she could do all sorts of amazing stuff with them. That's one lesson to take away from the film.

Why didn't her parents try to teach her to control and utilize her powers, why did they isolate her from the world and her sister and forced her to fight herself? Perhaps that was a case of bad parenting on their part. They loved her and wanted her to be happy, and they saw her powers as some sort of a problem she had that hey had to help her overcome.

Were they right in what they did to her? Were they wrong? You might say they could've handled the situation better. But remember, they died before they could really teach her to learn and accept herself, which left her misguided and scared and turned her into a frigid recluse that she ended up as. Anyway, I don't think that's bad storytelling - quite on the contrary, that a depiction of a very topical problem without trying to villify anyone. I like that.

 

[ninja51]

I agree entirely, Frozen sucks donkey dick, especially in comparison to Tangled

 

[Fulbert]

A thing that always bothered me, if Elsa's powers alludes to being Gay (like a lot of people are saying) is her accidently hurting Anna equivelant to her sexual assaulting her in the real world?

I think that's too literal an interpretation. That incident is just a plot device that gave Elsa a legitimate reason to be afraid of her powers. A sort of a childhood trauma that left a mark in her mind for years to come. I don't think interpreting it as sexual assault would be a good idea.

 

[Grampy_bone]

That said I get the impression that Elsa can do whatever she wants with Ice when she concentrates, and the thing she is focusing on happens, but due to her subconscious the power leaks and does whatever it's going to do. The gloves probably work by being a psychological focus, not because the clothing blocks her powers, but because he mind views them as doing so which keeps her subconscious under control. Throughout sci-fi and fantasy there have been similar things. That said the movie is not very explicit in setting up it's concepts, just beating you over the head with it's "messages" which was the intent of the film more than the story.

While Anna faces the dreaded Evil Dominant Male, Elsa's battle is with the insidious force of low self-esteem. The prevailing opinion in society is that women's main problem is that they don't think highly enough of themselves. Elsa can't use her powers effectively until she is able to "let it go" and accepts just how awesome and wonderful she is. You go girl. *sigh*

The song (which is quite catchy and well-produced) it just a great big anthem to female narcissism.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

Idiots- "It's the first Disney film where the girl don't need no man!" (Except when she does.)

Me- "Brave did it first. There was no love interest in that movie. She did it all on her own and was a total fucking badass."

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I liked Frozen. Character designs felt right, etc. It came together in a fairly tight package.

But they needed at least one more song in there somewhere I feel. But if you were to ask me where I would have put it, I have no idea.

Frozen is kind of tricky like that. I think for most viewers it works, but where it doesn't work is kind of a puzzle. Is Olaf too annoying? Was the Good-Prince-turned-Scuzzball inevitability a little too telegraphed? All in all, ehh. I liked it but it could have been legitimately something I love. I've got a feeling it was one good song from that. Coming from a movie with a fantastic album already.

One and a half thumbs up, could have been two. I wanted to lift Mr. Lefty and extend it well past the knuckle. Didn't quite get there.

 

[TheArcaneThinker]

The premise of frozen was just too childish to the point that i didnt see it...
I am still waiting for a movie like tarzan or incredibles to be made....

 

[mecegirl]

Idiots- "It's the first Disney film where the girl don't need no man!" (Except when she does.)

Me- "Brave did it first. There was no love interest in that movie. She did it all on her own and was a total fucking badass."

Oh oh! What about "It's the first Disney film that focuses on sisterly love"

Cuz Lilo and Stich doesn't exist.

Or "Well Elsa becomes a queen! "

Cuz the Atlantis movie didn't happen.

Or "The lead female character actually fights!"

Yep...totes ignoring Mulan.

 

[Spider RedNight]

Me- "Brave did it first. There was no love interest in that movie. She did it all on her own and was a total fucking badass."

My problem with Brave was that Merida was REALLY selfish. Like... for real? Letting three clans go to war because she doesn't WANT to get married?

She demands respect and freedom without taking any of the responsibility that comes with being royal; she likes doing what she wants but not what she apparently "has" to and that's get married. She disrespects her parents, she leaves messes just lying around for other people to clean up, she ruins things even though they're of obvious importance to her mom (though to be fair, mom did it first) and taunts her for being a bear and thus VERY out of her environment.

I can't help but feel like Merida sends mixed messages about where the line is between "independent" and "selfish". Granted, I suppose she's better than, say, Ariel or especially Aurora. But hell if I know.

If you ask me (and no one ever does lol), I feel that Tiana very well might've been able to hold Princess and the Frog on her own by just being a platonic life partner to Naveen because SHE was independent. SHE kicked some serious ass.

Oh oh! What about "It's the first Disney film that focuses on sisterly love"

Cuz Lilo and Stich doesn't exist.

Or "Well Elsa becomes a queen! "

Cuz the Atlantis movie didn't happen.

Or "The lead female character actually fights!"

Yep...totes ignoring Mulan.

I actually love that at the end of Atlantis, the characters don't even kiss. They just share a warm embrace. I don't remember another time that a kiss hasn't been shared between romantic characters (excluding animals like Fox and the Hound)

 

[Kenbo Slice]

Idiots- "It's the first Disney film where the girl don't need no man!" (Except when she does.)

Me- "Brave did it first. There was no love interest in that movie. She did it all on her own and was a total fucking badass."

Oh oh! What about "It's the first Disney film that focuses on sisterly love"

Cuz Lilo and Stich doesn't exist.

Or "Well Elsa becomes a queen! "

Cuz the Atlantis movie didn't happen.

Or "The lead female character actually fights!"

Yep...totes ignoring Mulan.

Pretty much. People treat it like it's some special film. It's not. Plus, Lilo and Stitch, Atlantis, and Mulan are all far better films.

 

[mecegirl]

Pretty much. People treat it like it's some special film. It's not. Plus, Lilo and Stitch, Atlantis, and Mulan are all far better films.

I hated that Atlantis didn't become more popular. It was a really fun film.

 

[Redryhno]

Pretty much. People treat it like it's some special film. It's not. Plus, Lilo and Stitch, Atlantis, and Mulan are all far better films.

I hated that Atlantis didn't become more popular. It was a really fun film.

To be fair, Atlantis was created at the wrong point in time I think and wasn't marketed all that well. It had a pretty mature artstyle, contained some really dark material and themes for a kid's movie, and the writing wasn't completely intended for anyone much under the age of 12 I'd say.

That said, I'm going to have to disagree with you about Kida, she didn't become queen, she became a pretty legitimate demi-god at the very least. But I haven't seen it in a while, so maybe I'm forgetting details.

 

[Fox12]

Idiots- "It's the first Disney film where the girl don't need no man!" (Except when she does.)

Me- "Brave did it first. There was no love interest in that movie. She did it all on her own and was a total fucking badass."

I would argue it goes back even further.

Mulan? Pocahontas? Mrs. Incredible? Lilo and her sister? I would argue that there are numerous ways to be heroic, and not all of them involve a sword.

Though, if we're going to celebrate badass female Disney characters in 2014, then I think mononoke would like to have a talk with you, Disney, from the distant time of 1997.

 

[mecegirl]

Pretty much. People treat it like it's some special film. It's not. Plus, Lilo and Stitch, Atlantis, and Mulan are all far better films.

I hated that Atlantis didn't become more popular. It was a really fun film.

To be fair, Atlantis was created at the wrong point in time I think and wasn't marketed all that well. It had a pretty mature artstyle, contained some really dark material and themes for a kid's movie, and the writing wasn't completely intended for anyone much under the age of 12 I'd say.

That said, I'm going to have to disagree with you about Kida, she didn't become queen, she became a pretty legitimate demi-god at the very least. But I haven't seen it in a while, so maybe I'm forgetting details.

She became both actually. See as her mothers child she was always going to be the one chosen to absorb the Heart of Atlantis' power. And just like her mother she wielded her power to save Atlantis.

Kida's mom

Kida

But by the end of the movie, her father, the king/chief whatever title you want to give him, is killed. Leaving her in charge of her people.