How could Disney redeem itself from The Last Jedi?

[Darth Rosenberg]

Do you believe merely the act of casting an Asian-American actress is in itself "pandering"? Because the film doesn't bring attention to it, or bring it up at all. All they did was cast her. Just casting is enough to be "pandering"?

That's an increasingly wonderful question to the alt-right/anti-SJW's/whoever-they-are. The official line is that they are 'not racist', because it's not plain ol' diversity that's an issue, it's 'forced' diversity. Yet they cannot bring that line into clarity, and increasingly it really is just looking like ingrained racism, just as opposition to Holdo's 'feminism' (has the alt-right/anti-SJW's/whoever dropped the 'modern' which usually gets meaninglessly shoved in front of the F word? kinda seems it) just seems like brazen sexism/misogyny (the apparent fixation on dyed hair is also thoroughly bizarre, and rather makes them out to be from some kind of ultra-conservative 1950's holdovers, where rock'n'roll and jazzy haircuts were a threat to societal order).

TLJ seems uncannily like the female led Ghostbusters, in that both films arguably have major issues structurally and in terms of concept and execution, there is shriekingly pathetic self-entitled 'fan' reaction to it, but there is also clear racism and sexism seeping through the cracks.

Still, better out in the open ("fat Asian *****", as that hyperbolically insecure YT'er whined) than thinly veiled.

 

[Kae]

It's similar to how white people can roughly tell apart different ethnicities within each other...

We... we can?

Seriously, I'm asking. Because I wouldn't have a hope in hell of telling, say, a Polish person from an Irish person. Visually I mean, accents are another matter altogether.

I thought you could I've heard white people do that in the past and I personally can roughly distinguish between different Latin American ethnicities.

 

[EscapistAccount]

Seriously, I'm asking. Because I wouldn't have a hope in hell of telling, say, a Polish person from an Irish person. Visually I mean, accents are another matter altogether.

I usually can, playing spot the German is normally fairly easy.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

Oh god, another one of these threads. Why has a company made a film that isn't specifically what i wanted and how can i try to vent my pre-pubescent rage at it and ignore any statement that doesn't directly agree with me? Different day, different topic, same old infantile approach.

The film was average, much like all the rest of the films. I have nostalgia glasses for the first 3 but the prequels and sequels haven't had that luxury and i find myself not really caring much to watch them again. The Last Jedi i would rewatch over and over again just to raise the sales and piss off the crying fanboys whose frothy bile entertains me far more than the franchise has managed for years

 

[COMaestro]

I am not arguing, no you can't pander to chinese to make money or no you can't have character like Rose at all but instead call for doing it better.

But you ARE arguing that the casting of Rose was an attempt to pander to China, whereas most other people here are arguing that you are wrong, because there was NO intent to pander to China in the film, so there was no reason for them to "do it better." You are arguing that Disney screwed up doing something and suggesting ways they could do it better when they weren't attempting to do it in the first place!

 

[Ryotknife]

It's similar to how white people can roughly tell apart different ethnicities within each other...

We... we can?

Seriously, I'm asking. Because I wouldn't have a hope in hell of telling, say, a Polish person from an Irish person. Visually I mean, accents are another matter altogether.

bit difficult in the US at least because we are almost all mixed blood ethnically and sometimes racially. Bit easier if they are from the mother/fatherland

 

[Zontar]

And I'm still yet to see anyone give convincing reasons for said views.

So you haven't actually watch or read any of the videos or comments on why people don't like the movie to the point where even most people who liked it agree it wasn't particularly good. I'm serious about that on social media the numbers are something like 3:1 for those who liked the movie taking the stance it wasn't really that good but it was enjoyable when compared to those who actually think it's great (and this is something one has to remember is collectively the minority opinion given every metric of measuring audience reaction that isn't the highly unreliable "at the door" polls)

It's also worth remembering that Empire Strikes Back provoked the exact same reaction as The Last Jedi. Hell, without Return of the Jedi to put everything into context, ESB is a pretty terrible movie.

I honestly have no words. Whether it be how ESB is a great movie even in a void that's elevated within the context of its place in the franschise compared to TLJ being a bad "turn off your brain and then you can actually enjoy it" flick that's made worst by its context within the franchise, the fact that ESB was initially received poorly by critics and loved by fans while TLJ was received poorly by fans but loved by critics, the fact that ESB had a coherent plot and lovable/relatable/understandable characters while TLJ was an incoherent mess of a plot with the characters who are likeable/relatable/understandable being limited to literally just Fin and Poe, there's just so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where I could expand upon these things.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Disney has nothing to redeem themselves for whatsoever, The Last Jedi is easily one of the best Star Wars movies in existence, if not THE best, and has made hilariously large amounts of money. By the standards of anyone who honestly intends to give Disney owning Star Wars a chance instead of screaming bloody murder right off for no good reason The Last Jedi is a phenomenal movie.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

I would rather them actually take more risks and not play it completely safe, but I don't think that will ever happen.

Just announce KOTOR as canon and I'll be happy.

 

[Zontar]

By the standards of anyone who honestly intends to give Disney owning Star Wars a chance instead of screaming bloody murder right off for no good reason The Last Jedi is a phenomenal movie.

That is absolutely not true and you know it.

 

[immortalfrieza]

By the standards of anyone who honestly intends to give Disney owning Star Wars a chance instead of screaming bloody murder right off for no good reason The Last Jedi is a phenomenal movie.

That is absolutely not true and you know it.

No, that absolutely is true and you know it. The fact that people like you can't possibly be satisfied doesn't change that.

 

[Avnger]

By the standards of anyone who honestly intends to give Disney owning Star Wars a chance instead of screaming bloody murder right off for no good reason The Last Jedi is a phenomenal movie.

That is absolutely not true and you know it.

That's true. It's also the case for the righteous knights carrying on the culture war against the dreaded feminazis and SJWs.

 

[GalanDun]

Arms dealers sell weapons to both sides of a confflict presented as ground breaking revelation (painting Finn a retard).

Not to mention contradicting their own canon (Both versions) because neither Incom nor Sienar would make TIEs for the Empire or X-Wings for the Rebels respectively.

 

[Zontar]

By the standards of anyone who honestly intends to give Disney owning Star Wars a chance instead of screaming bloody murder right off for no good reason The Last Jedi is a phenomenal movie.

That is absolutely not true and you know it.

No, that absolutely is true and you know it. The fact that people like you can't possibly be satisfied doesn't change that.

I enjoyed Rogue One. It wasn't great but I enjoyed it. Thought then again the characters had logical motives and acted in ways that where logical, so it's not exactly comparable to TLJ given that the only things that work are the effects, the cinematography and the music and literally nothing else is at even a 5/10.

You like the movie, alright, but most people don't and it has no connection to the fringe part of the fanbase that would hate anything for existing. Unless you believe the Huffington Post's conspiracy theory that they straight up fabricated, there's really no way to pretend the movie was well received. Hell in China where it didn't have the Star Wars hype factor had it pulled after only a week and it failed so hard it's unlikely future Star Wars movies will be released in the country.

By the standards of anyone who honestly intends to give Disney owning Star Wars a chance instead of screaming bloody murder right off for no good reason The Last Jedi is a phenomenal movie.

That is absolutely not true and you know it.

That's true. It's also the case for the righteous knights carrying on the culture war against the dreaded feminazis and SJWs.

You happy that people are defending a shit movie purely for political reasons and nothing else? Because that's literally the only reason why half of those pretending it's a good movie do so.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Arms dealers sell weapons to both sides of a confflict presented as ground breaking revelation (painting Finn a retard).

Not to mention contradicting their own canon (Both versions) because neither Incom nor Sienar would make TIEs for the Empire or X-Wings for the Rebels respectively.

What canon would that be?

And considering neither the First Order nor the Resistance are proper, recognized militaries, why wouldn't a third party arms dealer sell to both? Hell, prior to unrestricted submarine warfare, the US was more than happy to sell weapons to both sides of WW1

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

You happy that people are defending a shit movie purely for political reasons and nothing else? Because that's literally the only reason why half of those pretending it's a good movie do so.

Literally for realsies. Only half, why I dare say that anybody who likes The Last Jedi isn't and has never been a Star Wars fan.

It's only logical and not influenced by my personal feelings in anyway.

 

[Rangaman]

And I'm still yet to see anyone give convincing reasons for said views.

So you haven't actually watch or read any of the videos or comments on why people don't like the movie to the point where even most people who liked it agree it wasn't particularly good. I'm serious about that on social media the numbers are something like 3:1 for those who liked the movie taking the stance it wasn't really that good but it was enjoyable when compared to those who actually think it's great (and this is something one has to remember is collectively the minority opinion given every metric of measuring audience reaction that isn't the highly unreliable "at the door" polls)

I have watched said videos and all I've gathered was that people either hate it for being, and I quote, "SJW crap" (which is an argument I will never take seriously); for not fulfilling their fan theories (which is entirely your own fault as far as I'm concerned) or for not being nostalgia trip (do I even need to say why I don't take these guys seriously). And if it's not one of those, they'll claim it has massive plot holes and is incoherent without actually providing any examples.

And for the record, I've seen far more people who love TLJ than people who hate it.

It's also worth remembering that Empire Strikes Back provoked the exact same reaction as The Last Jedi. Hell, without Return of the Jedi to put everything into context, ESB is a pretty terrible movie.

I honestly have no words. Whether it be how ESB is a great movie even in a void that's elevated within the context of its place in the franschise

No, it isn't. It doesn't actually introduce any of the recurring characters and conflicts well and ends with, like, a million loose ends and unresolved plot threads. It's great because we know about the movie before it that introduced said characters and the movie after it that tied up all of those loose ends.

compared to TLJ being a bad "turn off your brain and then you can actually enjoy it" flick that's made worst by its context within the franchise,

I dunno, I actively engage with movies and I liked it. Also, what do you mean "made worse by its context within the franchise"?

the fact that ESB was initially received poorly by critics and loved by fans while TLJ was received poorly by fans but loved by critics,

Yes, that's because planned trilogies were a new thing in the 80s (so critics didn't really understand how that movie would work and docked points for it leaving a bunch of unresolved threads) and most of the fans were kids who watched the first Star Wars. Whereas now planned trilogies are much more common and their structure (first movie set the stage, second raises the steaks, third delivers the awesome climax) is well known while a lot of the fans are cynical 30-somethings that hate everything that goes near their precious bloody childhood.

the fact that ESB had a coherent plot and lovable/relatable/understandable characters while TLJ was an incoherent mess of a plot with the characters who are likeable/relatable/understandable being limited to literally just Fin and Poe,

How is the plot incoherent? In fact it's actually pretty simple all things considered. And I like the new characters. Yeah Rey is no Luke Skywalker but for people who grew up with the OT, they were never going to exceed the OTs cast in any way (not with JJ Abrams at the helm anyway). Maybe you don't like the new characters but that strays into "my opinion is better than yours" territory, and quite frankly this thread is argumentative enough.

there's just so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where I could expand upon these things.

Which means you can't be arsed or you actually can't think of anything to write.

 

[Tanis]

I really enjoyed it so...yeah.

It felt like a love letter, at times, to the non-toxic Star Wars fans.

My only issue is that I wanted it to be longer.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Make a Star Trek film, because that was always the better franchise. But only if it's on par with one of the "evens" - meaning II, IV or VI.