How is 9/11 viewed internationally?
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Well, <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States>it technically is but either way, nationist isn't really a word, and I couldn't think of a more fitting term in 15 seconds. My bad.Jazoni89 said:
My point is not, nor has it ever been, about the relative severity of whatever conflict is taking place. Only that tragedies in third world countries are dismissed as unimportant by those in the first world. For a variety of reasons, but chief among them is the simple truth that most people in first world countries don't think of those in third as actual people. They're a number and maybe a face and not a whole lot else.Satsuki666 said:
You're more or less correct in that regard. You're also completely missing the point.Jonabob87 said:
Why they're third world is completely irrelevant. People in first world countries hear about countless deaths in random places all over the world, and they don't care. Why do they not care? Because the people dying are not real people to them. The dying are numbers and a face or two, nothing more. They dismiss the deaths as unimportant, because to them, the people don't matter.
Humans simply do not have the physical capacity to truly care with the same fervor about atrocities that don't affect them or those in their monkey-sphere, regardless of the difference in severity. It's rationalized in a lot of different ways, the most common being the dismissal of others as real people due to perceived differences. This ends up being expressed as a disdain or aloof dismissal of their suffering, nine times out of ten.
I dunno about the country but i view it as USA blowing it out of proportion because it happened to them. Like if your friends parents split up, its a shame and you feel for them, but as soon as YOUR Parents break up the fuckin' world should cry over it.
Same thing really, its a tragedy but everyone for 10 years has been "9/11 this" and "9/11 that" i mean no one really cares that just a few months ago a phycho killed some kids in a camp, or that hurricane/tornado thing which caused destruction or even the earthquake in Japan which killed thousands and wrecked their way of living. No no no it's ALL about 9/11
Same thing really, its a tragedy but everyone for 10 years has been "9/11 this" and "9/11 that" i mean no one really cares that just a few months ago a phycho killed some kids in a camp, or that hurricane/tornado thing which caused destruction or even the earthquake in Japan which killed thousands and wrecked their way of living. No no no it's ALL about 9/11
Or Hydra... that's basically their credo - "We're more evil then the nazis, and led by Agent Smith!"Nikolaz72 said:
If not for the threads all over the interwebs, I wouldn't have remembered it. There have been a lot more serious disasters in other countries that have been forgotten a lot faster. In other words, I'm so tired of hearing about it, i basically zone out when i do hear about it.
If anything, this thread does plenty to reinforce my disdain for nationalistic views of any kind. Be they American neocon uber patriotism or any other, they tend to dehumanized things by placing the rest of the world into the nebulous "other category". People are people and to dismiss the impact of something like this (or indeed, any other major tragedy anywhere, recent or past) is somewhat callous.
That said: I agree with people who say move on, to an extent. When people say "Never Forget", I honestly want to tell them I wish I could forget, particularly in light of the wasteful and neglegent wars that followed it. Plenty of politicians used the tragedy exploitatively and many of the ways that people "remember" 9-11 feel equally excessive and jingoistic. It is distasteful.
But, truth be told, to completely dismiss and gloss over the event is probably unwise. My friend's father was one of the pilots and seeing how that affected her, I cannot really sit back and accept the idea that this is something to completely dismiss, slap a statistic on, and walk away from.
I think that applies to anything like this. War, terrorism, natural disasters. Maybe I'm just naive but I'd like to think it would be possible to treat all of these such things with an equal sense of regret and sympathy. Be it 9-11, the floods in Japan, third world troubles, Oslo, or anything.
/shrug. Sorry if that seems rambly. I just sort of wish that we could, no matter what stance we take on things, move away from the more insular national viewpoint to something a bit more all encompassing and global.
In all, I don't think we should be completely dismissive of 9-11 or any comparable tragedy but I think any remembrance should focus on the human element and nothing else. That's the important thing.
That said: I agree with people who say move on, to an extent. When people say "Never Forget", I honestly want to tell them I wish I could forget, particularly in light of the wasteful and neglegent wars that followed it. Plenty of politicians used the tragedy exploitatively and many of the ways that people "remember" 9-11 feel equally excessive and jingoistic. It is distasteful.
But, truth be told, to completely dismiss and gloss over the event is probably unwise. My friend's father was one of the pilots and seeing how that affected her, I cannot really sit back and accept the idea that this is something to completely dismiss, slap a statistic on, and walk away from.
I think that applies to anything like this. War, terrorism, natural disasters. Maybe I'm just naive but I'd like to think it would be possible to treat all of these such things with an equal sense of regret and sympathy. Be it 9-11, the floods in Japan, third world troubles, Oslo, or anything.
/shrug. Sorry if that seems rambly. I just sort of wish that we could, no matter what stance we take on things, move away from the more insular national viewpoint to something a bit more all encompassing and global.
In all, I don't think we should be completely dismissive of 9-11 or any comparable tragedy but I think any remembrance should focus on the human element and nothing else. That's the important thing.
Except they do. I guarantee you. If you've ever seen someone experience a personal tragedy, you would know this already. Someone's parent/sibling/significant other dying has a vastly more profound impact than a news report about the Rwandan genocide or Second Congo war.Satsuki666 said:
It's perfectly natural, and it doesn't make anyone a bad person, but it doesn't change the fact that normal, rational and intelligent people simply do not truly feel tragedy that does not affect their monkey-sphere.
This. Yes it was horrible. Yes it was a tragedy. But must we obsess. This year is different as its a 10 year anniversary so I'll just grin and bear it but we as a nation seem to be becoming more and more obsessed about it as the years go on. Every year when this month rolls around its "9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11"Cheshire the Cat said:
One remembers with more than just lip service. Life moves on, we should too. Never forget but do not obsess.
It's some random tragedy that was done by a bunch of idiots, but it's overhyped by the retarded mass media and now it's the same as if the damn world ended.
Yes, many people died, but even bigger shit has been done in many other countries around the globe, but no other nation made a crusader against a whole religion because of few bunch of idiots.
My country was invaded by 2 other countries for 3 years, although the war was much longer, but it's not "official". My country lost 40%+ of it's citizens due that war, jet I don't see the shit like the USA does.
What the USA did to Afghanistan, Cuba, Libya, Iraq, "CCCP" Korea.... those are things that have much more tragedy in them than 9/11.
tl.dr. it's not even half as a big tragedy as the American media makes it. Shit happens, get over it.
Yes, many people died, but even bigger shit has been done in many other countries around the globe, but no other nation made a crusader against a whole religion because of few bunch of idiots.
My country was invaded by 2 other countries for 3 years, although the war was much longer, but it's not "official". My country lost 40%+ of it's citizens due that war, jet I don't see the shit like the USA does.
What the USA did to Afghanistan, Cuba, Libya, Iraq, "CCCP" Korea.... those are things that have much more tragedy in them than 9/11.
tl.dr. it's not even half as a big tragedy as the American media makes it. Shit happens, get over it.
I like to measure atrocities in 9/11s. So, the Firebombing of Tokyo is over 30 9/11s, while the Holocaust is 3.6 Kilo9/11s.
So generally, my view is pretty cold. It was far away and didn't affect anyone I know, so I view it as just another atrocity; of which there is no shortage.
So generally, my view is pretty cold. It was far away and didn't affect anyone I know, so I view it as just another atrocity; of which there is no shortage.
That is where I am right now as well. I'm also a huge hockey fan. For me, that is my current tragedy focus. That tribute to the team made me tear up more than a 9/11 special will. And you're right, the status of planes and airlines in Russia is bad. Perhaps a remnant of Communism?emeraldrafael said:
I am American, but I look at many of the responses here that say "I don't care". I find that astonishing. Look at it this way. If you don't "care" about the people dying, look at it this way, it changed the world in several ways. It was also one of many types of attacks, such at the attacks in Russia, UK, Spain, etc. The big changes in airport security, new laws around protection of documents, anti-money laundering/terrorism and such items. So I think it's important in the way the world runs today.
I also wonder why does one tragedy have to outweigh another tragedy. I don't want to say this is bigger so, we don't care about your smaller tragedy.
Do I think the media coverage is over-done, very much so. But with 1000 channels, when isn't something over done by the media. 99% of the US citizens, aren't as up in arms every year about it, but the 10 year anniversery is important. So let us have our moment, we'll let you have yours. And history is there to remember...
I also wonder why does one tragedy have to outweigh another tragedy. I don't want to say this is bigger so, we don't care about your smaller tragedy.
Do I think the media coverage is over-done, very much so. But with 1000 channels, when isn't something over done by the media. 99% of the US citizens, aren't as up in arms every year about it, but the 10 year anniversery is important. So let us have our moment, we'll let you have yours. And history is there to remember...
So the fact that civilians were killed, more died from cancer and radiation damage and several for the next 100000 years will have increased birth defects is not a tragedy because of Pearl Harbor?Kathinka said:
It's still a tragedy even though Americans don't care. The fact that there have been killed more than 20 times more civlians in the Iraq war than died in the September 11 attacks is a tragedy and honestly, I think that takes away their right to mope about it 10 years later.