Acrisius said:
No, my argument is a response to your argument that unhealthy people cost less. Which is simply not the case. I'm sorry about your dad, but it's not exactly a secret that diseases exist and that even the most healthy can get sick. However, it's equally not a secret that unhealthy people are many, many times more likely to get sick. Unhealthy people DO cost vastly more, both to themselves and to society. It's just a fact. Perhaps you're trying to justify your own unhealthy lifestyle. I couldn't care less about how you live your life, but I react when you start spreading incorrect information about how things work. I'm well aware of how things work and what they cost in Scandinavia, I'm from Sweden myself. We have very high taxes on both tobacco and alcohol, just like you do in Norway. It certainly helps cover the costs, but it doesn't cancel them out or come anywhere near of netting a profit.
Old people have paid for the care the receive later by working their whole lives and paying taxes. If they've been healthy, they've basically cost nothing up until that point. If they keep living healthy even in their seniority, many of them, if not most, will be able to keep taking care of themselves on their own for a very long time, until they're very near the end of their lives. And they still consume goods and services that employ thousands of people in Sweden alone. Using money that they didn't waste on substance abuse or healthcare. I can't for the life of me understand how you can even suggest that being healthy has downsides. Your health is the most valuable thing you have. That's why we pay so much for healthcare.
Ok first off - I didnt make any argument about healthy vs unhealthy I just chipped in my ten pence worth. Personally I think that basing what people can and cannot (or should and should not) do purely on economics kind of misses the point that we are human - not economic robots. But in any case.
Dont even bother to compare the level of taxation between Norway and Sweden. Cigarettes and alcohol cost DOUBLE here then what they do over the border. Most foodstuffs also cost (for the most part) less too but thats not relevant. Norway is the most heavily taxed country in Europe - by quite a long way.
The system here (as I believe it should be for all civilised countries) is one of universal healthcare. This means that from the tax "pot" comes all of the money for everyone to be able to access care free of charge.
Luxury items and things that are deemed to be unhealthy have extra tax put on them (above the 25% VAT) and this means that in Norway the total tax on a pack is about 85%. Which equates to 13-15 USD per pack - which is a lot straight to the gov.
Also most people who start smoking, like I did, in my late teens do not end up carrying a lifetime habit. I started with a habit of 20 a day and now I smoke 1 or 2 - im thinking about quitting next year - we shall see.
Research has shown that 90-95% (higher by some estimates) of smoking damage is negated after a 10-15 year period of not smoking. It is rare for smokers to develop serious smoking related illnesses until at least mid 40s and thus anyone who quits smoking by the age of 30 (say) has contributed to taxation through their habit but is unlikely to incur extra in terms of needing more healthcare. And most people DO quit before they reach 30.
Healthy people in the modern age are shown to be able to be kept alive for much longer through advances in science. I even read an article in New Scientist some time ago about how in a few generations it would possible to effectively "reverse engineer" the human body to be able to regenerate cells and organs faster than they decay. Hence giving rise to all sorts of moral questions - but I digress.
Every scientific advance, when practically applied in a medical context costs money. And these treatments to prolong peoples lives are becoming more and more common hence costing more and more money. People who are sick through smoking related illnesses tend to, frankly, die sooner and require less medical treatment in the long run which costs less money.
I understand you dont like smoking but arguing against it from a purely economic standpoint will always fall through the floor. In countries that dont have universal healthcare they have either private healthcare where you pay for what you need or an insurance based system. And of course any insurance company will take into account any unhealthy habits you have as part of getting you a quote. Last time I checked those sorts of insurance companies were doing pretty well.
