How to Talk About Games #2

[1337mokro]

Yes because 16 bit soundtracks, like the ones from Chronotrigger, Final Fantasy 3 and 6, Donkey Kong Country, Actraiser, Secret of Mana, Super Mario World, TLOZ Link to the past, Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma and so on all sound like shit.

I may be wrong but I believe that he wasn't talking about the composition of the songs, but that the limited sound/pitch range of 16 bit music does not compare well to the same songs played on instruments. Zelda music that's played by a string orchestra is AMAZING, it's not much of a comparison to the sound of a limited machine trying to imitate the sounds of real instruments.

As I said above though, I believe there are exceptions to this.

Well sure, is you make a knife out of diamond it's going to cut amazingly well, doesn't mean the knife made out of steel is a shitty excuse for a knife not worthy of even being used or recognized as a knife.

16-bit worked with what it had, it didn't have the orchestra. Same with how you wouldn't call 18th century generals idiots for not using tanks in their wars, they didn't have any.

Nostalgia obviously factors in as well, I am not ashamed to admit that.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Yes because 16 bit soundtracks, like the ones from Chronotrigger, Final Fantasy 3 and 6, Donkey Kong Country, Actraiser, Secret of Mana, Super Mario World, TLOZ Link to the past, Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma and so on all sound like shit.

I may be wrong but I believe that he wasn't talking about the composition of the songs, but that the limited sound/pitch range of 16 bit music does not compare well to the same songs played on instruments. Zelda music that's played by a string orchestra is AMAZING, it's not much of a comparison to the sound of a limited machine trying to imitate the sounds of real instruments.

As I said above though, I believe there are exceptions to this.

Well sure, is you make a knife out of diamond it's going to cut amazingly well, doesn't mean the knife made out of steel is a shitty excuse for a knife not worthy of even being used or recognized as a knife.

16-bit worked with what it had, it didn't have the orchestra. Same with how you wouldn't call 18th century generals idiots for not using tanks in their wars, they didn't have any.

Nostalgia obviously factors in as well, I am not ashamed to admit that.

I suppose, my perspective is based on people I've met who've argued that those iconic music pieces work because of the sound and not despite it.

 

[zanzarra]

I like how lots of people post specific examples to prove that all 16-bit music is good. Because that's how proving stuff works, right?
Same shit as the old "music was better in [insert year]". You remember the good songs from that era because they are good. Don't even try to gauge how many songs you specifically don't remember - and why.

And yeah, the silent protagonist thing. It works for storytelling, sometimes, as it makes it easier to project the player into a character, but almost any mute character disqualifies him/herself from being in any way memorable.

Also, JC Denton for best character of all times. That is all.

 

[1337mokro]

Yes because 16 bit soundtracks, like the ones from Chronotrigger, Final Fantasy 3 and 6, Donkey Kong Country, Actraiser, Secret of Mana, Super Mario World, TLOZ Link to the past, Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma and so on all sound like shit.

I may be wrong but I believe that he wasn't talking about the composition of the songs, but that the limited sound/pitch range of 16 bit music does not compare well to the same songs played on instruments. Zelda music that's played by a string orchestra is AMAZING, it's not much of a comparison to the sound of a limited machine trying to imitate the sounds of real instruments.

As I said above though, I believe there are exceptions to this.

Well sure, is you make a knife out of diamond it's going to cut amazingly well, doesn't mean the knife made out of steel is a shitty excuse for a knife not worthy of even being used or recognized as a knife.

16-bit worked with what it had, it didn't have the orchestra. Same with how you wouldn't call 18th century generals idiots for not using tanks in their wars, they didn't have any.

Nostalgia obviously factors in as well, I am not ashamed to admit that.

I suppose, my perspective is based on people I've met who've argued that those iconic music pieces work because of the sound and not despite it.

Well some do, think for example the Megaman themes. For example you have Dr. Wily theme orchestrals that to me sound flat and boring, however in the bits it has that little extra that it needs. Those work because of the bits. An orchestra couldn't do much with it.

However Zelda sounds amazing on orchestra, although personally I don't favour anyone over the other, because it's initial composition is based around flute, string and other orchestral instruments. It depends on the song, what the composer was originally trying to mimic in bits and general composition.

I will gladly admit that 16 bit sounds good despite of it's limitations and often times the limitations asked for a little bit of creativity which is what makes it impressive that it sounds as good as it does, not because it is able to match a 100 string orchestra.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Oh God, you said Gordon Freeman may not have been a good character.

http://s17.postimg.org/3lqhbffrz/sailor_says_there_be_a_shit_storm_brewing.jpg

I can top that, and with out Grays satire.

snip

While Master Chief isn't exactly a deep character by any means (In the games anyway, not read the books) he's still got more character to him the Mario or Freeman. Combined.

and did you just dis the sounds tracks from Chrono Trigger/Seiken Densetsu 3/Act Raiser/Final Fantasy 6.

-.-

You. Me. Dawn. Daggers.

I shall be waiting....

 

[AxelxGabriel]

Yeah I agree, Im sick and tired of people putting silent, barely any personality characters like Freeman as best characters, when really they have absolutely no character whatsoever.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Yes because 16 bit soundtracks, like the ones from Chronotrigger, Final Fantasy 3 and 6, Donkey Kong Country, Actraiser, Secret of Mana, Super Mario World, TLOZ Link to the past, Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma and so on all sound like shit.

I may be wrong but I believe that he wasn't talking about the composition of the songs, but that the limited sound/pitch range of 16 bit music does not compare well to the same songs played on instruments. Zelda music that's played by a string orchestra is AMAZING, it's not much of a comparison to the sound of a limited machine trying to imitate the sounds of real instruments.

As I said above though, I believe there are exceptions to this.

Well sure, is you make a knife out of diamond it's going to cut amazingly well, doesn't mean the knife made out of steel is a shitty excuse for a knife not worthy of even being used or recognized as a knife.

16-bit worked with what it had, it didn't have the orchestra. Same with how you wouldn't call 18th century generals idiots for not using tanks in their wars, they didn't have any.

Nostalgia obviously factors in as well, I am not ashamed to admit that.

I suppose, my perspective is based on people I've met who've argued that those iconic music pieces work because of the sound and not despite it.

Well some do, think for example the Megaman themes. For example you have Dr. Wily theme orchestrals that to me sound flat and boring, however in the bits it has that little extra that it needs. Those work because of the bits. An orchestra couldn't do much with it.

However Zelda sounds amazing on orchestra, although personally I don't favour anyone over the other, because it's initial composition is based around flute, string and other orchestral instruments. It depends on the song, what the composer was originally trying to mimic in bits and general composition.

I will gladly admit that 16 bit sounds good despite of it's limitations and often times the limitations asked for a little bit of creativity which is what makes it impressive that it sounds as good as it does, not because it is able to match a 100 string orchestra.

I agree, up above I said The Moon from DuckTales also fits in that area of the original being the best one. The people I was talking about have a sort of all or nothing approach their enjoyment of game music. To them, it's not possible to make a better version of the originals with real instruments. They didn't really understand what nostalgia is and don't like admitting to having it's influence(it's gotten a bad name over the years for some reason). They told me that they felt the fun and excitement of the game while listening to the music, a feeling they didn't get as much when listening to covers of it.

 

[The Wooster]

I believe this is relevant to the discussion.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Spoiler

Damnit Grey, add something to that before someone gets snarky with the report button!

 

[The Wooster]

Notice how whenever people bring up excellent examples of retro soundtracks, they're all from brilliant games?

 

[Kataskopo]

Being silent doesn't mean it's not characterized, as seen by Extra Creditz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JQmTkmAOps

 

[1337mokro]

Unrelated to our previous discussion, just wanted to share something awesome I found on the youtubes

I think we can both agree what the true superior form of music is in any regard can't we?


Acapella

 

[-Dragmire-]

Notice how whenever people bring up excellent examples of retro soundtracks, they're all from brilliant games?

Come to think of it, I don't remember a good soundtrack for a bad nes/snes game. Granted, growing up I didn't notice a games music nearly as much as I do now. I do know there were bad music in good games though. While I can't remember specific games, I remember playing Weird Al on my boombox while playing some brawlers because the music was boring.

The only game I severely dislike but has an amazing soundtrack is Unlimited Saga, but that's for the PS2. Sigh, remembering the great music only reminds me of the $80 I won't get back...

 

[BehattedWanderer]

16 bit soundtracks, you say?

Chrono Trigger, FF IV-VI, Earthbound, Secret of Mana, and Super Mario RPG would like some words, sir.

Stepping away from that particular horse for a moment, I would love to see this as a counterpoint to Yahtzee. While he tells us to emphasize the faults over the good, you're telling us the other end of the logic of reviewing, to hold what's good out and above what's terrible about it. It's almost like you're telling us to consider the faults separately from the achievements of the game's design...which is preposterous, of course. Who would ever think of doing that?

 

[thebakedpotato]

I don't understand the love of video game music myself. Doesn't seem like a programmer at a keyboard coming up with a tune at the last minute playing only about 4 notes can be... ya know, something worth covering by a bunch of musicians who spend the bulk of their time focused on playing and usually writing music.

 

[1337mokro]

I don't understand the love of video game music myself. Doesn't seem like a programmer at a keyboard coming up with a tune at the last minute playing only about 4 notes can be... ya know, something worth covering by a bunch of musicians who spend the bulk of their time focused on playing and usually writing music.

Yes because every musician ever is a composer... Are you seriously saying every member in a 100 string orchestra composes music on the side?

Come on please, get your head out of your ass. The people behind mere videogame "music" are also professional composers, not programmers, you don't program music in, you hire a composer. Many of them with years of experience composing all kinds of music on top of years of experience playing instruments themselves. That is hilariously condescending and I would love to see you say that to these composers face, calling them programmers punching in notes.

Most misinformed post ever seeing as you couldn't even get the amount of notes correct at 8 or 16. That's what the amount of bits stand for.

 

[Clankenbeard]

So the argument slanted towards a defense of Chiptunes? Sigh. They have their time and place. CHIPTUNE STREAMING!!!

Great comic guys! I am loving these and praying for about 6 of them.

 

[OniYouji]

I was going to say something about how I vastly preferred Ace Attorney's chiptune soundtracks to the orchestral stuff, but don't want to keep beating a dead horse.

But the funny thing is, I can actually say there are several horrible games out there that actually have great soundtracks. Sonic 06 and Alone in the Dark 2008 come to mind. Terrible games by no stretch of the imagination, but I will admit to listening to that super cheesy "His World" or the Bulgarian choir on my iPod. Granted, none of these are 16-bit, but then, I haven't played too many awful 16-bit games with great soundtracks.

And yes, people have often told me that I'm too nitpicky about games that I particularly gush about. Shattered Memories had wonky shadows and the chases could get annoying at times; No More Heroes 2 needed more rank challengers and Henry was completely wasted; Tales games usually don't start getting good until it's 25% done and before then, it can seem really cliche and uninteresting. I guess it's just default for me to already notice the bad among the good.

Also, in defense of Resident Evil's narrative; it's not exactly good, and the dialogue is poorly written, but the mystery behind it all and the documents and files you find create an atmosphere that is palpable and intriguing, and that's just enough to hook me in and be invested in what was happening. So, it had a bad narrative, but I still liked it, if that makes any sense.

 

[Drauger]

Sigh ... This comic used to be better when they didn't slapped in our face how vastly superior gamer the author is, in comparison of us lowly fan boys.... cause you know that's who it feels when you read it now imho, I miss so much Erin hallucinations, the whole link saga was great, how she keep mixing game character with the real wrld, Heck i enjoyed Cory's hamster tale, but no, now we just get a " you guys suck because boobs/anime/16 bit music/opinion whatever" ...

Now now I could go and post some 8/16 bit game ost buuut I rather leave this here:







Guess what, it's not an ost from a video game, i carry this around and bought the new album in amazon so yeah, there's lots of great chiptune music, buy it if you like it xD they are great BTW.

 

[JudgeGame]

I hesitate to defend Halo under any circumstances but lumping Master Chief with Mario and Gordon Freeman is unfair and just mean.